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[2015 Thread] Wyndham VIP and Resale

raptor78

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Before anyone bashes VIP, I am fully aware of the costs/value etc :)

That being said -- I have a fairly large number of contracts with Wyndham - during current stay, after politely telling them no thanks, they made a last ditch offer that at least, on the surface, made me perk my ears...

The offer was 109K to top off my account to Platinum with specific incentive to convert all resale contracts to VIP eligible

Yes, I have my doubts to their ability to do this, but I am still exploring... And nothing is signed, I'm smarter than that :)

The question is for you smart Wyndham folks out there -- what type of verbiage would you expect to see in the contract that would provide such a protection?

Secondarily, is it even remotely possible to do such a thing or?

Again, nothing signed -- but if I could truly convert all my resale to VIP eligible for a small fee, thereby having Platinum, I would consider it...

Feedback please...

Thanks!
 

Ty1on

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Before anyone bashes VIP, I am fully aware of the costs/value etc :)

That being said -- I have a fairly large number of contracts with Wyndham - during current stay, after politely telling them no thanks, they made a last ditch offer that at least, on the surface, made me perk my ears...

The offer was 109K to top off my account to Platinum with specific incentive to convert all resale contracts to VIP eligible

Yes, I have my doubts to their ability to do this, but I am still exploring... And nothing is signed, I'm smarter than that :)

The question is for you smart Wyndham folks out there -- what type of verbiage would you expect to see in the contract that would provide such a protection?

Secondarily, is it even remotely possible to do such a thing or?

Again, nothing signed -- but if I could truly convert all my resale to VIP eligible for a small fee, thereby having Platinum, I would consider it...

Feedback please...

Thanks!

Converting your existing resale points contracts to count toward VIP would be a significant departure from Wyndham policy. I would expect to see something about unicorns in the contract if this is true.

If you have non-Wyndham intervals, they will give you PIC points for those that count toward VIP, but those have an expiration of 5 years I think.
 

ecwinch

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It would depend on what they mean by "VIP eligible".

Do they mean that the points from the resale contracts would be counted toward attaining platinum VIP status?

or

Do they mean that the points from the resale contracts could be used as VIP points ONCE you top off your acct to become a platinum VIP member?

If the latter - then they are not promising you anything. All the points in a VIP acct can be used as VIP points. That might change in the future, but right now once an acct has VIP status then all the points have those benefits. Which I think is what they are saying.

If they are converting the contracts to VIP status, then I would expect the contract to be an assignment document, where you assign the contracts to Wyndham in exchange for a fixed number of Wyndham points. But I have only heard of them doing this with fixed weeks for certain affiliate resorts or the PIC program as previously mentioned.
 
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raptor78

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And the rest of the story....

So having finally received my "clarification" I have the rest of the story...

I currently have 735K of VIP points - Gold
I am short, obviously, 265K

Their offer is not to make the remaining resale contracts on my account VIP, rather they are acknowledging if you have VIP from other contracts, all of your contracts, including resale, receive the VIP benefits...

Their offer was to add to PICs from Sands Ocean Club Resort (2 weeks, 154K per week)

The RTU on the PIC weeks is for 15 years, owned as long as the MF are paid ($600 per week per year)

Purchase also includes 105k net new points (WCA)

$19800

Before I get the run away -- The $19k doesn't necessarily bother me, but the value for the $19k is my concern -- the 105k new new points is probably $10-$13k of the purchase and the balance is for the PIC weeks -- seems expensive for the PIC weeks -- suspecting I could do something better, another route, if I wanted to top up to Platinum...

Thoughts, opinions, pros/cons?

Mike
 

ecwinch

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Thought so.

I would negotiate them down on # of points you are required to buy. Try getting them to do a EOY contract for 63k. With the PIC weeks that gets you VIP Platinum. Would also be nice if they threw in the PIC fee and some bonus points.
 

Ty1on

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So having finally received my "clarification" I have the rest of the story...

I currently have 735K of VIP points - Gold
I am short, obviously, 265K

Their offer is not to make the remaining resale contracts on my account VIP, rather they are acknowledging if you have VIP from other contracts, all of your contracts, including resale, receive the VIP benefits...

Their offer was to add to PICs from Sands Ocean Club Resort (2 weeks, 154K per week)

The RTU on the PIC weeks is for 15 years, owned as long as the MF are paid ($600 per week per year)

Purchase also includes 105k net new points (WCA)

$19800

Before I get the run away -- The $19k doesn't necessarily bother me, but the value for the $19k is my concern -- the 105k new new points is probably $10-$13k of the purchase and the balance is for the PIC weeks -- seems expensive for the PIC weeks -- suspecting I could do something better, another route, if I wanted to top up to Platinum...

Thoughts, opinions, pros/cons?

Mike

It is true that nearly all VIP benefits currently apply to resale points, though they don't count toward attaining VIP level. It is also true that regardless what salesmen say, the ability to get VIP benefits for resale points is more a limitation of Wyndham's system than it is a Wyndham policy. When they work out a resolution to that limitation, you can expect VIP benefits on resale points to go away.

If you really want to get to Platinum, this isn't a bad way to do it. See if you can get them down to 13K for the same deal, though.

And to be clear, have they told you that they will give you PIC points for 15 years? And if they did, will they put it in writing? In Wyndham's PIC program description, they state that if PIC is done in concert with a developer purchase, the PIC points will be awarded indefinitely, but if it is done after the fact there is a 5 year cap. I have seen explanations here that would lead me to believe there is a 5 year cap no matter when they are applied.
 
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raptor78

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The EOY is a good idea - will run that by them
The RTU for 15 years is verbal at the moment, as I haven't seen the contract - but I guarantee it will be in writing before I sign :)
 

ecwinch

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Go get them - and remember that the party at the negotiating table that is willing to walk away has the most power. There will always be another opportunity to close a deal like this. They have yet to offer anything special.
 

Ty1on

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The EOY is a good idea - will run that by them
The RTU for 15 years is verbal at the moment, as I haven't seen the contract - but I guarantee it will be in writing before I sign :)

The EOY is actually the best idea presented to you here. It would allow you to get to Platinum with the PIC points at a lower buy-in.
 

kennethglss

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i was at cypress palms and was tricked into a sales tour they said if i bought a small contract that my resale points would become wyndhamized and would be vip silver from now on i did not buy wanted to check facts they said to buy a eoy 105,000 points and i have 392000 resale point bought from ebay can that be true
 

Ty1on

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i was at cypress palms and was tricked into a sales tour they said if i bought a small contract that my resale points would become wyndhamized and would be vip silver from now on i did not buy wanted to check facts they said to buy a eoy 105,000 points and i have 392000 resale point bought from ebay can that be true

Nope. Not as you describe it. There is no mechanism by which to "Wyndhamize" resale points. On the other hand, the benefits of Silver Ownership over 400K points you buy resale do not justify spending the extra tens of thousands to get there.
 
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am1

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If you were to trade in the resale points and then got 1 deed those points would count.
 

Ty1on

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If you were to trade in the resale points and then got 1 deed those points would count.

Trading in those resale points would amount to giving back the resale points and paying near developer price to replace them.
 

am1

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Trading in those resale points would amount to giving back the resale points and paying near developer price to replace them.

Depends how it is done. Use to work and is the only way to guarantee the new vip benefits would be delivered.
 

Bigrob

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Trading in those resale points would amount to giving back the resale points and paying near developer price to replace them.

I think what Adam is saying is that if he negotiates it as an "upgrade" - for example, they take in the current points and roll it along with the additional new developer points into a larger CWA deed for example - they will all count as developer points. The problem is, I don't believe they'll do this (called an equity swap or some such) with points that were acquired on the resale market.

However, times are a'changing, as we've seen with Ovation and current Wyndham resale prices, so perhaps this is being quietly test-marketed in a couple of locations.
 

Ty1on

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Depends how it is done. Use to work and is the only way to guarantee the new vip benefits would be delivered.

I will endeavor to find out the particulars about this.
 

ronparise

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So having finally received my "clarification" I have the rest of the story...

I currently have 735K of VIP points - Gold
I am short, obviously, 265K

Their offer is not to make the remaining resale contracts on my account VIP, rather they are acknowledging if you have VIP from other contracts, all of your contracts, including resale, receive the VIP benefits...

Their offer was to add to PICs from Sands Ocean Club Resort (2 weeks, 154K per week)

The RTU on the PIC weeks is for 15 years, owned as long as the MF are paid ($600 per week per year)

Purchase also includes 105k net new points (WCA)

$19800

Before I get the run away -- The $19k doesn't necessarily bother me, but the value for the $19k is my concern -- the 105k new new points is probably $10-$13k of the purchase and the balance is for the PIC weeks -- seems expensive for the PIC weeks -- suspecting I could do something better, another route, if I wanted to top up to Platinum...

Thoughts, opinions, pros/cons?

Mike

So you are Gold now and the deal is to spend $20000 to get to platinum.. and the question is: Is there any value to that transaction? Your discounts go from 35% to 50% and you get an additional 5 guest confirms.

If you were to make all your reservations in the discount window the additional 15% is worth about 150000 points a year or something under $1000, and the extra guest confirms another $500. I coukd make the argument that a $1500 annual return on a $20000 is a pretty good deal, But will you really use those benefits, Do you currently use the 10 guestconfirms you get now? If not; the additional 5 wont mean a thing. And how often do you make your reservations in the discount window? If something less than all the time, the benefit of going from gold to platinum isnt very meaningful.
 

am1

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I think what Adam is saying is that if he negotiates it as an "upgrade" - for example, they take in the current points and roll it along with the additional new developer points into a larger CWA deed for example - they will all count as developer points. The problem is, I don't believe they'll do this (called an equity swap or some such) with points that were acquired on the resale market.

However, times are a'changing, as we've seen with Ovation and current Wyndham resale prices, so perhaps this is being quietly test-marketed in a couple of locations.

Yes. I am not sure if they currently offer it. In fact I doubt it. But this is the only way all points would be considered retail. I would not trust a sales person saying they can get the code on a purchase changed.
 

Timeshare Von

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I don't buy it for a minute!

Reminds me of back when we owned a couple of old fixed weeks. We had a crafty salesman offer to convert them (they were also resales) to points if we bought 105k points at Star Island. With the three contracts, that would have gotten us to VIP Gold I believe, and he said we'd have all of the rights & benefits.

The total cost to buy plus do the conversions was around $12,000 which we felt could be worth the price.

The only hitch was that we demanded in writing, in the purchase contract, the details of the VIP Gold. The day drug on and on, so they said they would get the paperwork together to cover that. But when we saw the paperwork, nothing was in writing to confirm that, so we rescinded the entire deal immediately onsite.

The local sales offices do not have the ability to override the Wyndham corporate policy on such matters so for any of them to say that, is simply B/S!
 

Ty1on

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The local sales offices do not have the ability to override the Wyndham corporate policy on such matters so for any of them to say that, is simply B/S!

This.....................
 

vacationhopeful

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Timeshare Von ...

Today, the sales offices do the "Bonus Points" which gives the account Temporary VIP for around 18 months ... what I call "Smoke & Mirrors" as the account gets labeled "Platinum" for a period of time WELL beyond the recession window.
 

Timeshare Von

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Timeshare Von ...

Today, the sales offices do the "Bonus Points" which gives the account Temporary VIP for around 18 months ... what I call "Smoke & Mirrors" as the account gets labeled "Platinum" for a period of time WELL beyond the recession window.

I know/understand that. That isn't what was happening in my/our situation. It was clearly a falsehood they were dishing out.
 

vacationhopeful

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I know/understand that. That isn't what was happening in my/our situation. It was clearly a falsehood they were dishing out.

Yes ... they were twisting the truth (as in "not lying") but NOT disclosing all the details ...

What was that old saying "the truth is in the details".
 

Bigrob

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So you are Gold now and the deal is to spend $20000 to get to platinum.. and the question is: Is there any value to that transaction? Your discounts go from 35% to 50% and you get an additional 5 guest confirms.

If you were to make all your reservations in the discount window the additional 15% is worth about 150000 points a year or something under $1000, and the extra guest confirms another $500. I coukd make the argument that a $1500 annual return on a $20000 is a pretty good deal, But will you really use those benefits, Do you currently use the 10 guestconfirms you get now? If not; the additional 5 wont mean a thing. And how often do you make your reservations in the discount window? If something less than all the time, the benefit of going from gold to platinum isnt very meaningful.

Unless they end up with exactly 1,000,000 VIP eligible points, they would actually be getting an additional 20 guest confirmations, not 5. At 1,001,000 points, you get 30 guest confirmations. So 20 guest confirmations per year, if you use them, is worth $2,000 a year.
 
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