[2012] Marriott Grande Vista 3 bedroom Platinmum

[1965]

i have read on several threads, this is the (#1) Marriott Vacation club to own
for trading purposes only thru Interval/Marriott Trading Priority.

MArriott Grande Vista
Orlando,Fl
3 bedroom
Platinmu

If this is okay, can you pls tell me, what are the many
reasons, that many of you
believe this to be true

Thank you in advance!

 

[GregT]

i have read on several threads, this is the (#1) Marriott Vacation club to own
for trading purposes only thru Interval/Marriott Trading Priority.

MArriott Grande Vista
Orlando,Fl
3 bedroom
Platinmu

If this is okay, can you pls tell me, what are the many
reasons, that many of you
believe this to be true

Thank you in advance!

I don't own one of these, but I would suspect its for the following reasons:

1) MFs are reasonable at approx 1250
2) Can lock off into 2BR and a Studio so 2 weeks of trades
3) Orlando does have TDIs greater than 130

However, if I was buying a pure trader (and was looking to lock it off), I'd buy a 3BR Grand Chateau because the lock-off is a 1BR. I think you get a LOT more trade power for the 1BR than the Studio for the extra 300 in MFs.

There aren't as many high TDI weeks in Vegas though, but I think still a great trader.

I'm not a trader though, and would welcome the perspective of the experienced traders here on TUG.

Best,

Greg

 

[Bill4728]

i have read on several threads, this is the (#1) Marriott Vacation club to own
for trading purposes only thru Interval/Marriott Trading Priority.

MArriott Grande Vista
Orlando,Fl
3 bedroom
Platinum

I have not read anything like that.

BUT let's talk about what make a good/great trader.
First -supply vs demand The demand for Orlando is very high but so is the supply. Therefore the wisdom here on TUG seems to be that Orlando is not the best place to own for trading power.

Second -Unit size Three bd units would have a lot of demand in Orlando since it is a "big family" destination but as Greg said to get the most of your unit most people would split their unit into a 2 bed and a studio to get 2 deposits. Therefore unit size is just a 2 bed unit.

Third -Brand-name TS trade power IMHO- As Marriott TS is second only to the Four Season in quality. a Marriott TS in Orlando would have high Trading power but there are something like 6 Marriott branded TS in Orlando so that makes this less important.

So IMHO I'd find it very hard to believe that a 3 bd unit at Grand Vista is the #1 TS in Marriott for trading power.

 

[Bill4728]

Third -Brand-name TS trade power IMHO- As Marriott TS is second only to the Four Season in quality.

Before any one flames me for this statement, Just want to say there are many TS systems which are on par with Marriott. Disney, Hilton, Hyatt & Westin to name a few. but IMHO Four Seasons are the tops in quality.

 

[BocaBoy]

However, if I was buying a pure trader (and was looking to lock it off), I'd buy a 3BR Grand Chateau because the lock-off is a 1BR. I think you get a LOT more trade power for the 1BR than the Studio for the extra 300 in MFs.

I agree and that is why we bought a 3BR EOY week at Grand Chateau. We should have bought an annual week. In addition to trading as a 2BR and a 1BR, your XYZs are a 2BR and a 1BR without having to negotiate an upgrade, which is not always successful. So for our 3BR week, we normally get four weeks in units larger than studios even if we never trade up in size.

 

[puckmanfl]

good evening....

let me give you my pre DC experience. I own 2 GV 3 bed platinums...

in 2007 I wanted to go skiing Feb at Mountainside...

I simultaneously deposited my 3 bedroom GV and my 2 bedroom Koolina and requested FEb. Mountainside. The GV and Koolina were both presidents week...

The 3 bedroom GV came thru first.... 3 bedrooms at avg demand resorts often trump Hawaii in the II secret formula. My guru told me this and she was right on , as I did a real time test to prove it!!!! For me the 3 bedroom GV is better than the 3 bedroom Grand Chateau because I live 60 minutes from the mouse house. I am looking forward someday to my grand kids coming down to my 3 bedroom GV... Iused this as a great getawy for all 3 bar/bat mitzvah -parties...

from a pure logic / trader point.. GC would outrank GV...for the reasons greg mentioned...

Dioxide can chime in as a resident gv expert as well...

 

[windje2000]

3 bedrooms at avg demand resorts often trump Hawaii

+1

I too have a plat 3br GV LO and have pulled some awesome trades. Keeping it intact as a 3 br adds to its trading power.

 

[dioxide45]

The good thing about a 3BR MGV week are the low buyin costs and rather low MF (for a Marriott 3BR unit). You get a 2BR and a studio out of locking it off and if you want to pull a real hard exchange, you can offer up the entire unit.

We only own a 2BR gold lock off and have had successful off season trades. But ours wouldn't come close to getting what a 3BR unit could pull.

The mention of the 3BR MGV units being so good is that they could see Marco Island weeks just sitting out on II when many 2BR units could not. That doesn't mean the 2BR units couldn't pull the weeks if a request was put in with one, but they had the trade power to get an instant exchange.

Personally I would still be leery buying any resale Marriott unit to try to get peak exchanges. The peak weeks are hard even for the best traders in the system. DC has really pulled a lot of that prime inventory out of II. If you are only wanting off/shoulder season, you would be just as well off with a platinum 2BR lockoff just about anywhere.

 

[thinze3]

MF's are what drive values of properties more than anything else. You can buy garden view 2BR Marriotts in Hawaii for almost nothing now because of the high MF's. Resorts of similar demand at ski locations and HHI have better resale value because they have lower MF's.

Grande Vista 3BR units do have relatively low MF's, and that is what makes it have some value. Would Grande Chateau be a better unit to own and trade - probably so if you are willing to pay the $300 difference annually. Most 2BR premium units online at II cannot be snagged instantaneously with a studio, but can be snagged with a 1BR. With that in mind, MGC would have a slight advantage over MGV. As dioxide said above, you can usually get that same 2BR using a studio deposit by placing a search request. It usually happens overnight (I recently did this exact thing).

Could you trade a MGV 3BR into a summer 2BR Hawaii or HHI unit virtually every year using a 3BR Grande Vista? I would guess the answer is yes, because you would be in line ahead of most 2BR platinum deposits. Could you name the exact location and exact date? I would guess NO, not in a timely manner to arrange your travel.

One more thing - MGC was being offered AC's by II until just recently. If the Vegas market picks up again, that may return.

 

[1965]

Thinze:

Can you really get a two bedroom Marriott Waiohai Beach club
Garden View, for nothing, because of incredible high Annual Dues
or
did I misread your post??

 

[yumdrey]

Thinze:

Can you really get a two bedroom Marriott Waiohai Beach club
Garden View, for nothing, because of incredible high Annual Dues
or
did I misread your post??

It's pure luck.
A few days ago, I could see two waiohai spring weeks with studio grande vista.
Check-in was late April, so they showed up about 3 months in advance from check-in which is quite enough time to purchase flights.
exchange is not guaranteed for a certain place for a certain week, so I would not purchase any resort just for better exchanges.
I own 3 bedroom platinum GV. If I was offered Grand chateau 3BR for the same price, I still would pick GV over GC because I can use florida club and it's much closer than vegas (should fly).

 

[Bill4728]

MF's are what drive values of properties more than anything else. You can buy garden view 2BR Marriotts in Hawaii for almost nothing now because of the high MF's. Resorts of similar demand at ski locations and HHI have better resale value because they have lower MF's.

The garden views at some of the older Hawaii Marriott resorts are dirt cheap but at the newer resorts (like Waiohai Beach, Ko Olinda and the new towers at MOC) they still cost alot to buy.

 

[GregT]

All,

I consider the attached file a little bit of a Rosetta Stone regarding II's trading power. Although it is designed for trading Marriott points into other systems, I believe it helps us think about how II views the relative trade power of different deposits.

Per the attached, a 3BR in a TDI 140-150 is worth 6,000 points -- well more than the 4,500 needed to match against a 2BR in the same TDI. There are 3BR Grande Vista Platinums that can be booked in a TDI 140-150 week.

Additionally a 3BR in a TDI 115-135 is worth 5,000 points -- again more than needed to match against a prime 2BR deposit. There are 3BR Grande Vista Golds that can be booked in a TDI 115-135 week.

This supports the real-world experience that Puck, WindJE and others have stated about the power of the 3BR Grande Vista deposit. And why Puck's 3BR Grande Vista matched before his 2BR Waiohai when chasing Mountainside.

Orlando does have 140-150 TDI weeks, so it is conceivable to get that fully powered deposit. Even locking off the Studio gets you 4,500 (for the 2BR) and 2,250 (for the Studio). Thats a lot of trade power.

This doesn't provide any clarity around the relative desirability (or scarcity) of Orlando versus Las Vegas and hard to tell which would have more power in the inner workings of II.

But this is a reasonable surrogate, in my view.

Best,

Greg

 

[MAINER4GOOD]

Greg, I am blown away by your response and your chart. Your post about Orlando having high TDI values had me going to the new II directory. I compared 2012 numbers to 2010 numbers, and Orlando's values have gone up in 90% of the weeks. Do you have any theories why the huge increase in numbers?

I own a 3BR lockoff unit at a resort that has 150 TDI values for many weeks. Should I tell the owners to deposit as a 3BR to maximize the trading power, or would they be better off to split it and get solid numbers for each unit?

Jim

 

[thinze3]

Thinze:

Can you really get a two bedroom Marriott Waiohai Beach club
Garden View, for nothing, because of incredible high Annual Dues
or
did I misread your post??

"Almost nothing" is a relative term, especially to not-so-distant prices.
EOY 2BR's can be bought for under $4K and annual 2BR's at all resorts for well under $10K.

An annual KoOlina 2BR just sold for under $6K
An annual KBC 2BR ocean view is listed right now for $7.5K.

Westin Princeville units are being given away and the resort is brand new.

This is what I consider almost nothing and it's all because of high MF's.

 

[GregT]

Greg, I am blown away by your response and your chart. Your post about Orlando having high TDI values had me going to the new II directory. I compared 2012 numbers to 2010 numbers, and Orlando's values have gone up in 90% of the weeks. Do you have any theories why the huge increase in numbers?

I own a 3BR lockoff unit at a resort that has 150 TDI values for many weeks. Should I tell the owners to deposit as a 3BR to maximize the trading power, or would they be better off to split it and get solid numbers for each unit?

Jim

Jim,

It's a good observation -- about 2010 TDI's versus 2012 TDI's -- I noticed a similar change in TDI numbers for Hawii in the most recent II book. I don't know if II simply updates their TDI numbers periodically (every 5 years?) but I definitely saw the impact.

It's an interesting question on what to do with your 3BR, and I hope other experienced traders comment. If I had the 3BR and I was targeting a very tough trade (Hawaii or Hilton Head in summer, Frenchman's Cove in February), I'd use the full 3BR unit to give me the best chance to get that tough trade and accept the downtrade as the cost of admission. If I was confident that I trading like for like, I'd lock it off and use the 2BR (which probably still has great trading power) for the primary trade and then keep the studio for an uptrade opportunity.

This is just my theory though, because I've done few Marriott trades, and always with a Studio because I use the 2BR side for my family travel.

Good luck and I hope you make the most of your week (and I hope others chime in with their advice and perspective).

Best,

Greg

 

[MAINER4GOOD]

The smaller side of the lock-off is a full 1BR/sleep 4. Would that make a difference for trading? any other thoughts from anyone?

Jim

 

[Big Matt]

My guess is that a summer Surfwatch 3BR would be the highest/best trader in the Marriott system

 

[SueDonJ]

My guess is that a summer Surfwatch 3BR would be the highest/best trader in the Marriott system

It has a very high trade value, can pull most anything available, but in II it doesn't get you the most value of any deposits. The reasons are that SW 3BR units (as well as the other Hilton Head Marriotts) are not lock-offs, and, there are very few 3BR deposits to II from owners at other resorts.

So while I can deposit it and pretty much be guaranteed that it'll go to the top of the list of requests for an exchange to any other high-demand property, II is more likely to match my 3BR Plat SW deposit to a 2BR unit elsewhere. Same thing with high-demand seasons - a SW Plat 3BR will have enough exchange power to pull anything in any Plat season, but with relatively few deposits of those I'm more likely to be successful with exchanging if I open up the calendar to lesser-demand seasons. (In the past II did not offer XYZ weeks to me to make up for such "downtrade" differences; since my last exchange I've learned enough about them to ask for one but there's no guarantee that they'll give one.)

So while 3BR Plat weeks at different resorts might have equal exchange power in II and be able to pull the same available exchanges, the non-lock-off is much more likely to be subjected to II's skim than the lock-off will be. If trade power in II's system is the most important variable, the way the OP has presented it, the lock-off capabilities of Grande Vista and Grande Chateau 3BR's make them a better option than SW's 3BR.

{ETA}
OP, if you want to add a SW 3BR to your list of possibilities anyway, here's how the three annual MF's compare:
Grande Chateau - $1,635.54;
Grande Vista - $1,240.17; and,
SurfWatch - $1,208.09

 

[Quilter]

All,

I consider the attached file a little bit of a Rosetta Stone regarding II's trading power. Although it is designed for trading Marriott points into other systems, I believe it helps us think about how II views the relative trade power of different deposits.

But this is a reasonable surrogate, in my view.

Best,

Greg

Greg,

Thank you for the chart. Not to take away from the current topic, but I would like to know if I'm right in how to interpret this. I have an II request using a lock-off with 150 TDI (2,250) to a 2-bedroom 110 TDI (3,000). The request is using a 3/13 week for one in 4/13 so I'm early with the request. Does this boost my request to a different level in the chart?

Thanks,
Suzzanne

 

[drakave]

more weeks

I agree and that is why we bought a 3BR EOY week at Grand Chateau. We should have bought an annual week. In addition to trading as a 2BR and a 1BR, your XYZs are a 2BR and a 1BR without having to negotiate an upgrade, which is not always successful. So for our 3BR week, we normally get four weeks in units larger than studios even if we never trade up in size.

im a little confused. I actually am in the process of buying a 3 br in Grand Chateau, how do you get 4 weeks from only i week (I know the lockoff allows 2 units which equates to 2 weeks). thanks!

 

[kds4]

+1

I too have a plat 3br GV LO and have pulled some awesome trades. Keeping it intact as a 3 br adds to its trading power.

+2 - We own both an MGV 3BR Platinum and an MGV 3BR Gold (just to hedge our seasonal choices without necessarily having to exchange. However we bought our units pre-DC, so the inclusive annual fee that covers exchanges was not an option at the time of purchase. Alas, I digest).

We have found both our MGV units to be outstanding traders both domestically and internationally, and have had no trouble pulling a 3BR exchange unit with just our Studio lock-off.

MGV Trading Power ... Oh, Yeah!

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

im a little confused. I actually am in the process of buying a 3 br in Grand Chateau, how do you get 4 weeks from only i week (I know the lockoff allows 2 units which equates to 2 weeks). thanks!

That's easy; Two times two equals four.

In other words; Two weeks in the lockoff side, and two weeks in the two bedroom portion for a grand total of four weeks.

BUT, remember, you need to own TWO of the 3 Bedroom Villas to do this. It looks like at the current time you only have one (which can equate into two weeks if you lock off).




.




.

 

[chalee94]

im a little confused. I actually am in the process of buying a 3 br in Grand Chateau, how do you get 4 weeks from only i week (I know the lockoff allows 2 units which equates to 2 weeks). thanks!

II will sometimes offer a bonus week if they want your deposit. you usually need to deposit at least a 1BR to qualify for the bonus week...so you'd get bonus weeks for both the 1BR and 2BR deposits = 4 weeks. (but you'd usually have to pay $299 + tax for a bonus week 2BR rather than just an exchange fee.)

edited to add: i forgot marriotts also have the XYZ trading option, which is similar to bonus weeks (ACs).

 

[Quadmaniac]

Food for thought

However, if I was buying a pure trader (and was looking to lock it off), I'd buy a 3BR Grand Chateau because the lock-off is a 1BR. I think you get a LOT more trade power for the 1BR than the Studio for the extra 300 in MFs.

Grande Chateau - $1,635.54;
Grande Vista - $1,240.17; and,
SurfWatch - $1,208.09

If you are buying a MGC vs a MGV for the 1 br vs studio, with the MF of $1635.54 + $80 L/O fee = $1715.54 for a 2br and 1br

If that is the reasoning, would it not be better to buy 2 x Willow Ridge 2Br with $878 MF = $1756 for 2 x 2br which should get you better trading power than a 2br and 1 br ?

For a difference of $40, I would think the Willow Ridge would be a better deal in addition to the fact 2 x WR can probably be had for way less than a 3 BR MGC

That's just my observation if that is your final goal. My thoughts would be MGV or 2 x MWR