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[2012] Anyone else denied use of their week?

peakview

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We have been owners for 14 years at Vacation Villas at Fantasy World in Orlando. When I went in two weeks ago to either reserve a week in November at our home resort or request a week number to deposit in Interval, there was a message that the resort sold out in early June. No more units available for reservations or II deposits. What??!! I have never heard of this. After phone calls and e-mail exchanges with the resort, they told me there is no resolution and that we have lost our week because we tried to reserve too late. (We were deeded week 52, though technically it is a floating week.) And this after we all paid a big assessment for resort upgrades. We are furious and wonder if we have any recourse. Has anyone else had this happen to them? I feel like they have stolen our week. VV has units for exchange/rent all over Interval, Expedia, Hotwire, etc. Lots and lots of availability to everyone but owners who did not "follow the rules and reserve early," we were told.
 

northovr

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how can they denied you a week if you paid for it?
 

timeos2

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While we are not owners at that specific resort we do own at another 100% float time resort in Orlando (although this would apply to any float ownership regardless of location). There are only so many weeks to assign each year and, at our resort at least, the early part of the year has some go by with no reservations made for some units. That means if the resort is sold out there will be owners with use rights that will NOT have any time available when they wait too long to reserve as those use weeks/units are lost.

It tends to not be an issue in the earlier years of ownership when you can often wait to nearly the last minute to reserve and the Developer - who is likely still running the resort - bends over backwards to get get every owner in & keep them happy (and buying). Once the resort sells out - or even close to sell out - things tighten up and the rules are enforced more strictly. Owners who got used to the freewheeling early days are surprised when the availability is based on actual use. Once most weeks are owned by individuals the flexibility that even the Developer/Management used to have to assign the unsold time virtually at will is gone.

So yes, this is very possible and does happen to owners at float resorts if they wait too late to reserve. it appears your resort has turned that corner and you need to start planning 10-14 months ahead not wait until 2-6 months out or you risk being one that loses out on a year.

I'm sorry it happened - it is a rude awakening. But it isn't tough to avoid you just have to plan ahead. The management is doing nothing wrong but merely informing you of the available time left and that this year may be fully reserved.
 

timeos2

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how can they denied you a week if you paid for it?
If they read the documents it says you must make a "timely request for annual reservation". If an owner waits too long things are full - it is first come, first served. For some reason too many wait and the demand for the end of the year is higher than the early part. So when early weeks go unused they go to waste & some owners, despite paying, get no week. It is a reality of any float resort. it is up to the owners to make the effort to get a reservation early.
 

peakview

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Well, thanks for your response, timeos2, which is exactly what the resort told us. But it would have been polite to have some warning this may happen, which never came, and has never been a problem for 14 years. How could we have anticipated that? And no one answered our repeated question: So what happened to our week? And after the assessment and maintenance fees, we paid over $3200 in the past three years. A very rotten situation for people who work very hard for their money and find it was wasted.
 

jerseygirl

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I would write to the resort and ask them to send you an accounting of the weeks deposited to Interval to determine if any were "bulk banked," which basically means assigned to Interval without actual owner requests. It seems to me that if a resort runs out of weeks before June 30th, it's irresponsible of them to NOT deposit unrequested weeks to interval that can then be assigned to owners like you who end up with no availability to reserve anything.

I think something's fishy .... I would demand a full accounting if I were in your shoes. I'd be surprised to find a single timeshare resort in Orlando that's 100% booked from now until the end of the year ....

Can this happen, as timeo describes? Yes. Do we ever hear of it happening in June ... In Orlando? Never.
 

bogey21

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My first three TS Weeks were Floating Weeks. After I got tired of the planning that was required and realized there was a possibility I would lose my Week(s) if I procrastinated, I sold all three. Everything I bought after that were Fixed Weeks at Independent Resorts which were prudently managed by their HOAs. I never regretted making the change.

George
 

timeos2

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Well, thanks for your response, timeos2, which is exactly what the resort told us. But it would have been polite to have some warning this may happen, which never came, and has never been a problem for 14 years. How could we have anticipated that? And no one answered our repeated question: So what happened to our week? And after the assessment and maintenance fees, we paid over $3200 in the past three years. A very rotten situation for people who work very hard for their money and find it was wasted.
The week becomes one of the (likely) many that went unclaimed earlier in 2012 even as dates later in the year are filled up with requests. In an area such as Orlando where there are practically no bad use times having a fixed week is a pain as different years you may desire different use times. Having to exchange & pay those costs just to change week is a real negative (I know - we've owned both types in Orlando & float is MUCH preferable). However it does require owners to make a request each use year - not that hard but you must be early enough to be fairly sure you'll get what you want. This time you waited too long. I'll bet you'll never make that mistake again.

Asking if there are any banked weeks you can get from RCI, II or any other exchange company is a good idea. Our float resort does bank some week in anticipation of this happening but those also run out after awhile. The real answer is to be earlier. Our resort does hand out multiple reminders to book early yet virtually every year there are some owners who end up with no use week. It seems to be human nature to wait too long to ask. Good luck to you - I hope you can get something as this is a rough lesson to learn by the loss of a weeks use.
 

ronparise

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The week becomes one of the (likely) many that went unclaimed earlier in 2012 even as dates later in the year are filled up with requests. In an area such as Orlando where there are practically no bad use times having a fixed week is a pain as different years you may desire different use times. Having to exchange & pay those costs just to change week is a real negative (I know - we've owned both types in Orlando & float is MUCH preferable). However it does require owners to make a request each use year - not that hard but you must be early enough to be fairly sure you'll get what you want. This time you waited too long. I'll bet you'll never make that mistake again.

Asking if there are any banked weeks you can get from RCI, II or any other exchange company is a good idea. Our float resort does bank some week in anticipation of this happening but those also run out after awhile. The real answer is to be earlier. Our resort does hand out multiple reminders to book early yet virtually every year there are some owners who end up with no use week. It seems to be human nature to wait too long to ask. Good luck to you - I hope you can get something as this is a rough lesson to learn by the loss of a weeks use.
John

I suppose that if every owner paid their dues before Jan 1 and attempted to make their reservation or deposit to an exchange company before Jan 1 then every owner could expect to get a week. But if you wait until after Jan 1 then you might get burned. I would think that no matter how early I make my reservation, if Im the last guy to call.and its after Jan 1 I might get locked out

If the hoa was really acting in the interest of all owners. Wouldnt it make more sense to require owners to pay their dues before the the year begins, and to reserve their week at the same time. In other words not accept a payment without a reservation request.

and/or

RCI accepts deposits right up to day before check in (reduced TPU) Couldnt the hoa, if say on the Wednesday before check in, sees that there are units that will be vacant the next week, deposit those weeks to RCI (or another exchange company). That way If someone comes forward in August to make their October reservation, they could be given the option of an exchange, instead of being turned away...Sure there would be exchange fees, but thats the penalty for late reserving, and better than getting nothing


and to the op

to answer the question posed in the title of this thread.....yes its happened to me. Slightly different circumstances. I bought a floating week towards the end of the year, that came with maintenance fees paid by the seller, and current years usage included. When I called to make my reservation I was told, that there was nothing available....So I didnt get my week that I thought was included in the purchase price, but I did learn a valuable lesson..ie pay early and reserve early..make sure some other guy gets screwed, not me.(sorry it turned out to be you.)And as John said, thats the nature of floating weeks (and points programs) ...there is no guarantee that you will get what you want or even anything at all
 
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suzannesimon

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If they read the documents it says you must make a "timely request for annual reservation". If an owner waits too long things are full - it is first come, first served. For some reason too many wait and the demand for the end of the year is higher than the early part. So when early weeks go unused they go to waste & some owners, despite paying, get no week. It is a reality of any float resort. it is up to the owners to make the effort to get a reservation early.
So are they really selling more weeks/units than actually exist? There should be a law against that. It's one thing if you miss the dates you really want, but there should be a week available sometime during the year for every owner.
 

dumbydee

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There probably are weeks avaliable sometime during the year for every owner, however, if everyone tries to book at the end of the year there are not enough units to accomadate all the owners. The bookings have to stretch out throughout the entire year for the float weeks to work.
 

timeos2

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So are they really selling more weeks/units than actually exist? There should be a law against that. It's one thing if you miss the dates you really want, but there should be a week available sometime during the year for every owner.
No - it's that every week has an owner yet some (many?) weeks in the first part of each use year do not get claimed. As Ron says a sharp resort management will try to identify when there appears to be time that will go to waste and make a deposit with an exchange company just to save something. But they can't take all the time or too early or the reason weeks wouldn't be available would be from over banking! It is a fine line to walk but every float system (and points) has to do it.

Even the weeks that are delinquent can't be assigned to owners as they are held in Administrative hold for rental to maximize the income for the Association. If a week goes unpaid by the owner it is not in the use pool it is in the rental pool. It is one of the most complicated parts of resort management that the resort has to administer. I don't envy them that work.

As Ron also states many float resorts do push the idea of pay & reserve as a package. Yet still some will say they don't know when they want or when they can get time & then forget to request until it's too late. It seems to be part of the normal pattern and no amount of warnings or prods changes it for every owner.
 
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suzannesimon

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OK. I get it now. Apparently units sat vacant during the less popular time and they don't have any left of the good weeks. Glad all my units are fixed weeks! I don't have to think much unless I want to trade.
 

Larry

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My first three TS Weeks were Floating Weeks. After I got tired of the planning that was required and realized there was a possibility I would lose my Week(s) if I procrastinated, I sold all three. Everything I bought after that were Fixed Weeks at Independent Resorts which were prudently managed by their HOAs. I never regretted making the change.

George
Completely agree!!!! We own 16 weeks all are prime fixed weeks at Independent resorts and at 3 we have the ability to either use our week or reserve a different week within season. We rent out about half of our weeks and it is great to not have to worry about first reserving a week to rent out.

We also have a few weeks including RCI points that we always deposit with RCI, II or most recently SFX.

We have owned since our first purchase in 1992 and we have never lost a week.:cheer: :shrug: :hi:
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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As others have pointed out, this can be an issue where there is a floating week system. It often happens that at the beginning of the float period there are weeks that go unreserved. If the resort is sold out that inevitably creates a crunch at the end of the season, as everyone of those unused weeks early in the season represents an owner who is not going to be able to make a reservation later in the year due to lack of availability.

I am a minority participant at TUG in my defense of bulk spacebanking by resorts that have floating reservation systems. The situation described is one key reason why I believe bulk banking is a benefit to owners with floating time usage. In a well-run bulk banking system the resort has some ability to anticipate when weeks are going to go unused, and the resort then banks those weeks with the exchange company. Later in the year, when the reservation crunch occurs, the resort can make one of the bulk banked weeks available to the owners who are unable to reserve.

It has worked this way for us as well. One time when we purchased a unit at a float time resort, by the time the sale closed there was no available time left to reserve. The resort however transferred a bulk banked week to our account so were able to get usage of our unit via an exchange.

*****

I also have to say that in our original timeshare presentation - at the Marriott Kauai Beach Club in 1999 - our salesman was quite clear during the presentation about the importance of reserving early and explaining how if we waited too long to make reservations we could lose our usage, particularly when the resort reached sell out.
 

cmh

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I'm still learning the ropes and these comments are all good advice - Thanks!
 

Beefnot

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Best to plan/reserve early and and rent it out or deposit with an exchange company if you subsequently can't use the date rather than get shut out altogether from using your week.
 

dougp26364

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Well, thanks for your response, timeos2, which is exactly what the resort told us. But it would have been polite to have some warning this may happen, which never came, and has never been a problem for 14 years. How could we have anticipated that? And no one answered our repeated question: So what happened to our week? And after the assessment and maintenance fees, we paid over $3200 in the past three years. A very rotten situation for people who work very hard for their money and find it was wasted.
I do feel for your situation but, it highlights the reasons for understanding every little aspect about your ownership.

Years ago we learned a lesson the hard way as well, although not to the extent your experiencing. We had purchased a fixed week/fixed unit ownership in Vegas. At the time of purchase (it was our first purchase), they assigned us a random week and told us it would be no problem, the developer was allowing fixed wee/fixed unit owners to "float" their usage weeks.

Well this worked fine up until the resort sold out. Some owners actually wanted to use the fixed week they had purchased. Since there were no more developer owned weeks or, since there were no longer enough developer owned weeks, floating our usage week was no longer an option offered by the developer. There was no written notice of this change in policy except for our ownership documents, which clearly stated we only had the right to use the fixed week/fixed unit we had been assigned.

Remember, they didn't ask us which week we wanted and we weren't smart enough to know which week would have worked best for us. They just assigned us a week and told us not to worry about it. Needless to say, this put a big dent in our travel plans as the week assigned didn't always work well for our plans.

Unlike you we were fortunate enough that we still had our fixed week and it could be deposited with I.I. for exchange. It was unfortunate that we now had to pay an exchange fee to get usage from that particular week as we had been using it to stay at our home resort, just not during the week we owned.

At this point I would consider paying the MF's early rather than waiting until they're due on Jan. 1st. All the resorts we own offer this option and about half of them require advance payment of the MF's before they'll allow us to reserve/deposit a unit. The advance MF payment has been based on the previous years MF. At the end of the year, we're billed the difference between what we've paid in advance and any inrease in the MF for the next year. I usually have most of the MF's at resorts requiring advance payment made by the end of June or, at the very least, one year in advance of when I think we might want to take vacation. If it's a resort week I know we'll exchange, I select a week that I believe will be a strong exchane week and pay the MF that week, one year in advance, and just go ahead and reserve/deposit that week. By doing this I believe I'm locking in the highest possible exchange power, it gives me a three year window to work with and it locks in a week for vacation.

I know this doesn't help your situation as it stands now but, maybe it can help you avoid this nasty situation in the future. I hope you can work something out with your resort so that you're able to get at least some value from your ownership week.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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I do feel for your situation but, it highlights the reasons for understanding every little aspect about your ownership.
Ditto. That's a big reason why when we bought at Poipu I made an appointments with the resort manager and the reservations manager and had them walk me through the reservations process and inventory control system.
 

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I am a minority participant at TUG in my defense of bulk spacebanking by resorts that have floating reservation systems. The situation described is one key reason why I believe bulk banking is a benefit to owners with floating time usage. In a well-run bulk banking system the resort has some ability to anticipate when weeks are going to go unused, and the resort then banks those weeks with the exchange company. Later in the year, when the reservation crunch occurs, the resort can make one of the bulk banked weeks available to the owners who are unable to reserve.
I don't see how bulk banking will address the issues. I think about it this way. Pretend there is only one unit in the resort. There are 52 people who own a week in that room. Now if none of the 52 want week 1, then once week 1 has past, the resort has 52 people trying to fit into 51 week. Someone loses.

I don't see how bulk banking can fix this. If II was successful int renting out that week 1 unit, the resort gets an occupied week, but those 52 owners are still trying to fit into 51 weeks.

Now in reality, there are many more than one unit at each resort. And statistically, some of the owners will either trade or not use their unit during the year. In that case, if the resort previously bulk banked some late season weeks, it may be able to call one of them back.

But at a sold out resort, once a week passes without being used by an owner, there is an imbalance between the number of weeks available, and the number of owners who could want to use their week.

Greg
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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I don't see how bulk banking will address the issues. I think about it this way. Pretend there is only one unit in the resort. There are 52 people who own a week in that room. Now if none of the 52 want week 1, then once week 1 has past, the resort has 52 people trying to fit into 51 week. Someone loses.

I don't see how bulk banking can fix this. If II was successful int renting out that week 1 unit, the resort gets an occupied week, but those 52 owners are still trying to fit into 51 weeks.

Now in reality, there are many more than one unit at each resort. And statistically, some of the owners will either trade or not use their unit during the year. In that case, if the resort previously bulk banked some late season weeks, it may be able to call one of them back.

But at a sold out resort, once a week passes without being used by an owner, there is an imbalance between the number of weeks available, and the number of owners who could want to use their week.

Greg
It seems as if you are assuming that the resort doesn't try to bulk bank until it's almost check in date, and of course that won't work. In actual practice the resort has a pretty good idea of what percentage of owners are likely to want exchanges in any given year and what the most popular and least popular periods are.

Using that information the resort then creates a schedule for depositing units such that the units deposited mostly come from time the resort is expected to be empty.

Of course the reality with any floating reservation system is that there are going to be people who don't make reservations near the beginning of the reservation period. That results in situations where 20% of the owners are competing for the last 15% of inventory at the end of the year. Not everyone is going to get a reservation. But if the resort has bulk banked those units that sat empty at the beginning of the season, the people who get squeezed out at the end can at least get an exchange week to use.

On the other hand, if those unreserved units at the beginning of the season just wound up sitting unused and undeposited, the owners who get squeezed out at the end of the year will get nothing at all.
 

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My first three TS Weeks were Floating Weeks. After I got tired of the planning that was required and realized there was a possibility I would lose my Week(s) if I procrastinated, I sold all three. Everything I bought after that were Fixed Weeks at Independent Resorts which were prudently managed by their HOAs. I never regretted making the change.
Exactly! All I have ever owned or ever bought are fixed week. No gambles. No calling in at 12:01 am or 8:01am New Year's Day to try to pin down something for Halloween (I don't even know at New Year's if I'm going to be in the US at Halloween!).

In fact, have I got a deal for the original poster!! I have a marvelous 2-bedroom unit in the beautiful Ozark Mountains at Fixed Week 12. Swimming, tennis, golf, bicycling and more, in the Mountain Ridge section of Fairfield Bay. And I will sell it to you with all maintenance fees paid up through this year for the princely sum of one dollar. Better hurry, though, because other folks will see this posting and start calling me at 919-271-8885.
 

dougp26364

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Exactly! All I have ever owned or ever bought are fixed week. No gambles. No calling in at 12:01 am or 8:01am New Year's Day to try to pin down something for Halloween (I don't even know at New Year's if I'm going to be in the US at Halloween!).

In fact, have I got a deal for the original poster!! I have a marvelous 2-bedroom unit in the beautiful Ozark Mountains at Fixed Week 12. Swimming, tennis, golf, bicycling and more, in the Mountain Ridge section of Fairfield Bay. And I will sell it to you with all maintenance fees paid up through this year for the princely sum of one dollar. Better hurry, though, because other folks will see this posting and start calling me at 919-271-8885.
Huh? I have never had to call in for a reservation on New Years Day. Every resort that I own allows reservations at the 12 month window and some, at 13 months. When reserving a home resort week to use, they don't even require payment of the MF until it's due. If I want to reserve 12 months in advance and deposit that week for exchange, most will require an advance deposit against that years MF. It's a simple thing to do and I've never had to call by a certain time to acomplish what I need.

Floating weeks do take a little more planning but they're not the hassle you seem to believe them to be.
 

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Exactly! All I have ever owned or ever bought are fixed week. No gambles. No calling in at 12:01 am or 8:01am New Year's Day to try to pin down something for Halloween (I don't even know at New Year's if I'm going to be in the US at Halloween!).

In fact, have I got a deal for the original poster!! I have a marvelous 2-bedroom unit in the beautiful Ozark Mountains at Fixed Week 12. Swimming, tennis, golf, bicycling and more, in the Mountain Ridge section of Fairfield Bay. And I will sell it to you with all maintenance fees paid up through this year for the princely sum of one dollar. Better hurry, though, because other folks will see this posting and start calling me at 919-271-8885.
Well if I didn't already live in a beautiful mountain resort area, I might take up up on that! Thanks anyway!:)
 
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