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[2010] Ebay Seller - Sumday Vacations – Jeff Brown

rickandcindy23

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Now for this post, very strange. Cindy, you were the worst enemy of the PCCs like this one, about two years ago, and were posting all over TUG how evil these companies were. You even said they should all be closed down. Now you're doing a cheerleader dance for one of them? Wow! Guess you decided... if you can't beat 'em, join 'em?

These examples prove how people can change over a short period of time. Fascinating...

Who said Sumday is a PCC? Did Jeff say so? I don't think I have ever seen any such claims. Give me a break, will ya?:rolleyes: Do not berate me for that which you do NOT know.
 

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Well.. I hope I have some luck with Sumday selling our TS. They have all the paperwork, deed etal..plus their Fee .. so we're hoping this will go Fast.
Want out of that TS..as we have another and dont have enough time to even use the other..
So there's a Redweek 1-bedroom LO for sale in Cabo...!
Hope Sumday lives up to their reputation...as we know how 'easy' it is to sell timeshares...!!:eek:

Who said Sumday is a PCC? Did Jeff say so? I don't think I have ever seen any such claims. Give me a break, will ya?:rolleyes: Do not berate me for that which you do NOT know.

It's amazing that people believe what they want to believe. You said yourself that you purchased at least a couple of timeshares from Sumday. Did you happen to look at the paperwork? It's very clear how they get at least most of their inventory... from previous individual owners! May not be sending post cards, but it's the same concept, at least the way I see it.
 
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T_R_Oglodyte

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It's amazing that people believe what we want to believe. You said yourself that you purchased at least a couple of timeshares from Sumday. Did you happen to look at the paperwork? It's very clear how they get at least most of their inventory... from previous individual owners! May not be sending post cards, but it's the same concept.

Sorry to burst your bubble! But, it is hypocritical to want to campaign on closing down all the PCCs on one hand, and then cheerlead for one of them later. I'm just sayin...

I believe that Sumday gets most of its inventory from developer trade-in programs - where people trade-in their existing time share for a new purchase or for a membership in a vacation club such as Gold Crown Resorts.
 

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I believe that Sumday gets most of its inventory from developer trade-in programs - where people trade-in their existing time share for a new purchase or for a membership in a vacation club such as Gold Crown Resorts.

You may be right. Why does he list the previous owner in the eBay ads then? (at least he used to). And then why does he blame the previous owner for supplying wrong information when his eBay ads are wrong? It appears from this thread and the BBB complaints, that information in his ads are frequently wrong!
 

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You may be right. Why does he list the previous owner in the eBay ads then? (at least he used to). And then why does he blame the previous owner for supplying wrong information when his eBay ads are wrong? It appears from this thread and the BBB complaints, that information in his ads are frequently wrong!

Well I guess there are at least 2 of us that got a timeshare that was misrepresented. That is the same excuse I got..the owner gave us the wrong information so it's not sumdays fault. Even though I asked sumday twice before paying for the transaction.
 

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Frank Response

Does sumday want to respond to my post?

Frank,
Let's be forthright about this and here are some of the reasons I do NOT normally address any complaint about Sumday Vacations on TUG. Some of these items are also to clear some of your general accusations (i'm sure you'll have more after this posts).

1. How can I possibly respond to your complaint on this bulletin board as your post does not give me enough personal information for me to determine who YOU are out of the 25,000 + clients we have dealt with throughout the past 7 years.

2. You clearly state in your TUG post that we dealt with your complaint and you received a refund which you accepted. In our opinion, because you accepted the refund your complaint was resolved. Why would I re-open your complaint because you now (how long ago did this happen) are unhappy. Be realistic, does Sumday Vacations have a moral obligation to keep the happiness level of every client at 90% or better for the life of your purchase?

3. Many of the items you and ace2000 keep bringing up, such as referencing a previous client, etc. tell me that your talking about very old files. Because that particular staff member (that did it that way) has not been with us for quite a while now. Now, all inventory is tracked with inventory numbers and all information is verified via estoppels before listing on ebay (whenever possible as some POA's are not responsive to estoppel requests). Furthermore, we offer any prospective buyer the ability to view the estoppel before bidding.

4. Were you a one time purchaser of timeshare? Was the purchase from me the first one you've done through ebay, etc.? Was that purchase the first from us, any others? In other words, were your expectations more along the lines of a resort purchase or are you realistic about what you were buying from Sumday Vacations in an ebay auction. Look at TUG there are hundreds of posts talking about how an error was made in the listing and the buyer knew it but did not tell the listing party so that they could win the auction for a cheaper price. Errors happen on ebay advertisements simply because of the high volume of listings that are conducted on a daily basis.

5. Would you really like for me to deal with your complaint in front of a nationwide (TUG) audience? What if the correspondence, advertisement, etc. supported my position more clearly than yours? Would that be considered public humiliation? If you really were unhappy why didn't you choose to contact us privately asking for a refund? Or do you have some other non-legitimate reason to ask us to re-open your resolved complaint?

As for your statements about how so many people complain about the accuracy of our ads, etc. You can state that all you want, but realistically what percentage of error do you expect a business of this nature to conduct itself within?

For instance, in the past 36 months we have completed 13,467 timeshare transfers. We had 13 complaints that went to the BBB, out of those 4 were unresolved. That's less than 1 tenth of 1 percent that are so truly unhappy that NO resolution fit their situation. Any complaint that doesn't make it to the BBB is not factored into that equation but those complaints were obviously dealt with in enough of a manner that the complainant had no desire to proceed further to a BBB complaint.

Now, I'm sure you and ace2000 will have lot's of fun be-rating this post. And I want to wish you both the best. Have fun with it and enjoy the moment while you pick apart how bad Sumday Vacations conducts itself. Then grow some and create a company that does it better. We are still waiting for that to happen and wish you two the best in your venture.
 

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Now, I'm sure you and ace2000 will have lot's of fun be-rating this post. And I want to wish you both the best. Have fun with it and enjoy the moment while you pick apart how bad Sumday Vacations conducts itself. Then grow some and create a company that does it better. We are still waiting for that to happen and wish you two the best in your venture.

Little paranoid here or what?

The OP was looking for a recommendation or referral. I gave my experience... which was a bad one with your business. In my case, the eBay ad stated that the maintenance fees were half of what they actually were. You said that the previous owner supplied that information, and that you weren't accountable for the information in YOUR ad because it came from the original owner.

I would caution any potential buyer of your eBay timeshares to validate what Sumday states in their ads... which is good advice for any timeshare purchase.

Next, Sumday has a streamlined process in how they process their deeds. A buyer supplies their personal information to Sumday by email, and that's all it takes. The deed is quickly transferred to your name and mailed within a short timeframe.

Other eBay companies require the buyer to sign a purchase document. Why do the others require a signature and Sumday doesn't? I don't know... Is there any risk to the buyer with that streamlined process? Again, I don't know.

On the plus side, I am the one that mentioned that your BBB rating has improved from a F (last year) to a current grade of B-. That is commendable, but it still doesn't change my experience.

Yes, I'm sure there are many satisfied Sumday customers, but again that doesn't change my experience.

The OP asked for a recommendation, and I provided my experience. A potential buyer can process all the positives with the negatives and make their own decision. I choose not to purchase from your business in the future, and if asked, will only state my experience.
 

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Then grow some and create a company that does it better. We are still waiting for that to happen and wish you two the best in your venture.

Just want you to know I got a good chuckle out of this one...

:hysterical:

Don't anticipate getting into the timeshare business soon, but it does provide an example of the attitude that I noticed when dealing with your company.
 

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I doubt any of us on TUG want to go into the business of selling timeshares, however you come about them. I thought that paragraph was a bit out of character for Jeff.

Ace is right on that one. I thought I would never agree with ace2000 on anything.:rolleyes:
 

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Your attitude to my post speaks of the way you have dealt with the problem when it was reported to you. I have nothing to hide as I was the PURCHASER and not the seller. Like I posted, I bought a timehare that YOUR company stated was to trade with II. I called and verified that YOUR LISTING was correct before I bid. I was assured it was correct and it would trade with II. When I bid $1 and won the bid (this was not more than 6 months ago) I called and wanted to be sure it was and was again told that the listing is correct. Not wanting to drag this post out I was told that it was an error by the owner so nothing you could do. I did not want the timeshare because it would not trade in II (that is the main reason I wanted it). Told that I could not deed it back and my only recourse was to keep it and get a refund. Yes I did take the refund because it was the only option I had as the deed was already in my name and SUMDAY would not take the deed back.
Please show your ad and evidence that I was wrong. Like I have posted the only wrong thing on your listing is the exchange company and that is the main reason I wanted it. If you think I did not notify you to get a "plum" TS for cheaper I can post the original deed that was dated for over a year ago from the original owners. I am sure that if the resort was in such high demand you would have sold it a lot sooner.
It seems that only on a national forum did I got a longer response than "sorry it is not our fault". On a national forum I will gladly deed the timeshare back to Sumday...but the timeshare only trades thru RCI and not II.
I have posted my EXPERIENCE with your company and your response to my question just shows everyone how you have dealt with me and others. Instead of asking for more info and recognizing the problem, you come out and attack me. Your post in such a defensive manner and to attack me in a national forum shows how much your company values customer service.
 

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I forgot to add that this was not my first purchase from your company. I have bought one before this and did not have a problem as everything was as described.

I only have a problem when the item was not as described and the way that your company handled the problem.
 

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Frank,
As stated in my previous post. I will need your information to ascertain who you are to be able to respond about the particulars of the transaction.
 

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I purchased a timeshare from Sumday Vacations in October last year off of Ebay. The timeshare was not as advertised when I got it. They said that it was a floating week 1-52. However I just tried booking it this spring and they said that my week was not a 1-52, as it didn't cover certain red weeks. This is pretty frustrating as those weeks are exactly when I want it. I know I probably should have looked into it more when I first got it, but I didn't think they would be lying (although it actually was probably a mistake) about it. Now I am not sure if they will help me out at all. I will call them this week, but I have a feeling that because I didn't call to book it until recently that they won't do anything about it. I definitely won't use them again if they don't resolve this though.

I will post what happens from talking to them this week.
 
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theo

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Hindsight is ALWAYS "20/20", but...

I know I probably should have looked into it more when I first got it...

In all fairness to Sumday Vacations, I respectfully submit that this might just be instance in which you should have done your own due diligence and ascertained for yourself any applicable blackout periods before concluding the purchase in the first place. You could very easily have done so with a single phone call directly to the resort, to learn and confirm any reservation restrictions associated with that particular "floating" ownership.

I have learned over the years (...the hard way, the first time :eek: ...) that many sellers (both private and commercial) don't even actually know about any applicable restrictions or "blackout periods" pertaining to their advertised floating ownership. After all, resort policy is generally not information which is addressed in any way within the deed.

I'm sure that there are sellers who knowingly withhold vital information concerning "blackout periods" when that info, once revealed, considerably lessens the desirability of their product. Based upon my own first hand experiences, however, these "oversights" or "convenient lapses in memory" actually occur far more frequently with private resellers. Commercail resellers (particularly eBay mega sellers) may very well know nothing at all about the resort reservation policies and practices regarding the product they are are reselling. :shrug:
 

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In all fairness to Sumday Vacations, I respectfully submit that this might just be instance in which you should have done your own due diligence and ascertained for yourself any applicable blackout periods before concluding the purchase in the first place. You could very easily have done so with a single phone call directly to the resort, to learn and confirm any reservation restrictions associated with that particular "floating" ownership.

I have learned over the years (...the hard way, the first time :eek: ...) that many sellers (both private and commercial) don't even actually know about any applicable restrictions or "blackout periods" pertaining to their advertised floating ownership. After all, resort policy is generally not information which is addressed in any way within the deed.

I'm sure that there are sellers who knowingly withhold vital information concerning "blackout periods" when that info, once revealed, considerably lessens the desirability of their product. Based upon my own first hand experiences, however, these "oversights" or "convenient lapses in memory" actually occur far more frequently with private resellers. Commercail resellers (particularly eBay mega sellers) may very well know nothing at all about the resort reservation policies and practices regarding the product they are are reselling. :shrug:

... so I guess we now live in a society where people can advertise and say anything they want to, just to make a sale. There's no accountability on the seller's part in your world... interesting. The seller should be held accountable for the facts they state in THEIR ad. If not legally, then it should be an ethical choice.
 

theo

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Howzzat now???

... There's no accountability on the seller's part in your world... interesting.

I have no idea where you're coming from with this reply. I neither stated nor implied any such thing.

I was burned in a "floating week" purchase scenario myself with my first timeshare purchase years ago. There were "blackout periods" in place for the only time period I had intended to use that timeshare.
In effect, I wasted my money (resale, fortunately) on a purchase which was essentially useless to me.
My error, I learned too late (...but certainly remembered forever thereafter) was actually avoidable.

My intended point was (still is) simply that there is a buyer responsibility to perform due diligence.
I once (...and only once...) failed to do so and paid the price. My point was (still is) that whether the seller is unaware of or deliberately withholding pertinent negative information about the reservation eligibility of a floating ownership, that "missing info" can still be discovered (before closing) via buyers' due diligence.

Sheesh....:confused: :ponder: :confused:
 
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ace2000

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In all fairness to Sumday Vacations, I respectfully submit that this might just be instance in which you should have done your own due diligence and ascertained for yourself any applicable blackout periods before concluding the purchase in the first place. You could very easily have done so with a single phone call directly to the resort, to learn and confirm any reservation restrictions associated with that particular "floating" ownership.

I have learned over the years (...the hard way, the first time :eek: ...) that many sellers (both private and commercial) don't even actually know about any applicable restrictions or "blackout periods" pertaining to their advertised floating ownership. After all, resort policy is generally not information which is addressed in any way within the deed.

I'm sure that there are sellers who knowingly withhold vital information concerning "blackout periods" when that info, once revealed, considerably lessens the desirability of their product. Based upon my own first hand experiences, however, these "oversights" or "convenient lapses in memory" actually occur far more frequently with private resellers. Commercail resellers (particularly eBay mega sellers) may very well know nothing at all about the resort reservation policies and practices regarding the product they are are reselling. :shrug:

Theo, this sure seemed like a defense of the seller to me... forgive me if I misread it... LOL
 

theo

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...this sure seemed like a defense of the seller to me...

I suspect (and I hope) that you are quite alone in any such odd interpretation....:shrug:
 

rickandcindy23

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I always see posts on TUG about doing your due diligence, but I have to admit, I am bad about it. I try, sure, and I ask the seller information to get the resort or management to give me info about usage, availability, fees paid, etc., but I get no cooperation. This is true, even in the resorts or systems I already own. So the answer to my questions is "this is private info I cannot give to you." That is pretty much my experience.

Maybe usage is a different question that will get an answwer from them, like what weeks are available to me, but I have had zero luck in finding out if the week is still available for this year, or it the week is behind in fees, etc.

Due diligence is difficult to do. I rely on the info the seller gives to me.
 

theo

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Due diligence observations...

Due diligence is difficult to do. I rely on the info the seller gives to me.

In my own comments above regarding due diligence, I was specifically (and only) addressing the sole issue of existing restrictions or blackout periods attached to particular individual "floating" ownerships. As already stated, a seller (whether commercial or private matters not at all) either may not know or may not be forthcoming on those details (details which can't be determined from reading the exisiting deed itself).
Never again will I or would I rely solely upon information provided by any seller, commercial or private.

I accept and respect that a resort is not going to divulge any owner account status info to an unknown stranger, but I've never known any facility in any system (when asked in a phone call) to simply describe and define the precise restrictions (if any) of their floating weeks reservations. Maybe I've just been lucky. :shrug:
 
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rickandcindy23

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Theo, I do agree with you. I just find it difficult to get any information from a resort, specific to one account. It's been frustration after frustration, truly it has. I see TUG members say, "Do your due diligence," all of the time, and they seem to have no problems, but I have bumped into walls every time. I even asked BocaBum for an example of an estoppel letter, so I could use one of those, and it still didn't net much info.
 

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Sumday...

Glad to hear all of the great reviews for Sumday...I am buying my first resale from them. I made the purchase April 1st from their website for Wyndham Club Access Points. I do not hear from them, but when I call, they do answer or call me back.

I recently found out that the original contract was from Mexico, I did not know that when I made the purchase, so I am hoping that all will go well with no impact.
 

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I always try to get the seller to get an estoppal letter from the resort that includes detailed information about float period use and restrictions. This information should also idealy be part of the contract with the reseller. If what you get is not what is stated in the contract you have more to back you up if there is a problem than just by going what is in the add. Sometimes you can't get this information until after you have sent the money but you should be able to get it before they transfer the deed in your name.
 

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What you are describing is one of the very reasons you should insist that resellers like Sumday use an attorney local to where the timeshare is located to handle the closing, not the insider unqualified out of state timeshare closing companies they typically want to use. If they balk, it is not the BBB you should complain to, but the State Bar (unauthorized practice of law, a criminal offense, in drawing the deed in many states) and the state Real Estate Commission (possible licensing violations) of the state where the timeshare is located. In North Carolina, for example, most of the eBay timeshare sellers are in violation of both.


Your attitude to my post speaks of the way you have dealt with the problem when it was reported to you. I have nothing to hide as I was the PURCHASER and not the seller. Like I posted, I bought a timehare that YOUR company stated was to trade with II. I called and verified that YOUR LISTING was correct before I bid. I was assured it was correct and it would trade with II. When I bid $1 and won the bid (this was not more than 6 months ago) I called and wanted to be sure it was and was again told that the listing is correct. Not wanting to drag this post out I was told that it was an error by the owner so nothing you could do. I did not want the timeshare because it would not trade in II (that is the main reason I wanted it). Told that I could not deed it back and my only recourse was to keep it and get a refund. Yes I did take the refund because it was the only option I had as the deed was already in my name and SUMDAY would not take the deed back.
Please show your ad and evidence that I was wrong. Like I have posted the only wrong thing on your listing is the exchange company and that is the main reason I wanted it. If you think I did not notify you to get a "plum" TS for cheaper I can post the original deed that was dated for over a year ago from the original owners. I am sure that if the resort was in such high demand you would have sold it a lot sooner.
It seems that only on a national forum did I got a longer response than "sorry it is not our fault". On a national forum I will gladly deed the timeshare back to Sumday...but the timeshare only trades thru RCI and not II.
I have posted my EXPERIENCE with your company and your response to my question just shows everyone how you have dealt with me and others. Instead of asking for more info and recognizing the problem, you come out and attack me. Your post in such a defensive manner and to attack me in a national forum shows how much your company values customer service.
 

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As I mentioned before, I would followup with exactly what happened. My situation with Sumday Vacations was that I bought a floating week that said certain weeks were available when in fact they were not.

So I called on Wednesday and explained my situation. They checked the ad and verified that they had put dates on there that weren't available. The person I spoke to asked me to call back the next day to talk to Steve.

Today I talked to Steve. He said that the resort employee gave them those weeks for the unit. He said they are not going to be held responsible for the claims of the ad. Here are a few choice quotes that I wrote down from my talk with Steve:

"I cannot help you."

"I could care less. If you bought that to go to week 7, that wasn't very smart." (Note: The ad said week 7 was included)

"This is not Walmart"

He offered to refund half of the money that I paid for the Timeshare. I said no, as this seems like a terrible compromise. I am stuck with a Timeshare that I cannot use and it is supposed to be made all better by getting a couple hundred dollars back? How does that even begin to compensate me for the maintenance fees every year?

He said that they have a disclaimer on their ads that says that they will not be held responsible for the claims of their ads. To me, for a business to say that is downright irresponsible and immoral. Here is how the disclaimer should be worded: We may be lying to you about what we are selling you.

Oh yeah, he tried to ask me if I have ever been to a timeshare presentation when I asked him if it is ok for their business to lie to me. Did he mean that all timeshare people are liars? Seems that way.

EDIt: After some cooling down, I do have to say that on the other hand they did offer a good price for the place. I mentioned before that I should have checked into it more. Not being an experienced timeshare buyer I didn't know I had to. I guess it just seems like in this kind of industry where there is so much risk to the consumer(maintenance fees) that I find it a little frustrating that there is so little protection. All in all, Steve was just doing his job, but definitely as a new timeshare owner this causes me an enormous amount of frustration.
 
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