• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 27 years!

    Join tens of thousands of other owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered!
  • TUG is asking for recent reviews of older resorts, earn a free year membership!

    Read more here
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $18,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $18 Million dollars
  • Follow the TUG Member Banner as it travels the world on vacation with Timeshare owners! Also sign up to get the banner sent to you so you can submit a photo of your vacation with the banner to share with TUG! Banner Thread
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free! Join tens of thousands of other owners who get this every week! Latest resort reviews and the most important topics discussed by owners during the week!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    Read more Here
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

[2010] - $20K for 7,000 at Hilton Club New York?

LondonAndy

Guest
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
23
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
London
As my user name suggests, I'm London based but visit New York twice a year or so.

I had a preview at W57th Street earlier this year and wasn't sure whether to laugh or choke when they said they wanted $75K for 7,000 points. However, they said come back and try the Hilton Club.

They offered 7,000 points for $20K, with 20,000 bonus points. I did my sums and reckon that 20,000 points equates to 4 weeks in NYC which, at c. $300 per night, means a "value" of $8,400.

The gold cards also have some value to me too - I've received an upgrade worth c. £50 per night in each of the Hiltons I've stayed in recently. Even at 4 nights a year this is £200 or £4,000/$6,000 over the 20 years left.

That means that the true cost of the timeshare is $5,600 - cheaper than the resale market.

I've still got time to cancel, and had considered resale, but with this deal is it not worth purchasing directly from Hilton? My heart says don't buy from Hilton but my head says it seems like an OK deal. Am I missing something?
 

Zac495

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,038
Reaction score
51
Points
283
Location
Philadelphia, PA
Oh no ! Cancel! You can buy 7000 points for less than half that right now. I know 5000 pts are going for around 4500 or less - cancel!!! Spend time here with us - you can always go back to Hilton if you decide to buy it AFTER you spend time researching. Follow the directions very carefully when you cancel or you will be stuck. WElcome to TUG
 

alwysonvac

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
14,143
Reaction score
2,329
Points
798
As my user name suggests, I'm London based but visit New York twice a year or so.

I had a preview at W57th Street earlier this year and wasn't sure whether to laugh or choke when they said they wanted $75K for 7,000 points. However, they said come back and try the Hilton Club.

They offered 7,000 points for $20K, with 20,000 bonus points. I did my sums and reckon that 20,000 points equates to 4 weeks in NYC which, at c. $300 per night, means a "value" of $8,400.

The gold cards also have some value to me too - I've received an upgrade worth c. £50 per night in each of the Hiltons I've stayed in recently. Even at 4 nights a year this is £200 or £4,000/$6,000 over the 20 years left.

That means that the true cost of the timeshare is $5,600 - cheaper than the resale market.

I've still got time to cancel, and had considered resale, but with this deal is it not worth purchasing directly from Hilton? My heart says don't buy from Hilton but my head says it seems like an OK deal. Am I missing something?
Read The Fine Print


From Page 146 of the 2010 Member Guide - http://multimedia.hiltongrandvacations.com/mg/Book_Reader.cfm?BookId=1

Bonus Points. From time to time, Members may have the opportunity to receive and redeem Bonus Points. Such Points may be used:
• to reserve accommodations through Hilton Grand Vacations Club during the Club reservation window
• for travel through Partner Perks
• for RCI Exchange reservations
• for hotel reservations throughout the participating Hilton portfolio of hotels
• as a credit toward maintenance fees owed
• for conversion to HHonors points
• for various other redemptions benefits such as travel vouchers redeemable for airline travel, car rentals, event tickets and shopping certificates offered from time to time

Bonus Points cannot be transferred or assigned and cannot be borrowed, rescued or deposited into next year’s account. Bonus Points cannot be used to reserve accommodations during the Home Club or the Club Reservation Windows at The Hilton Club – New York. Bonus Points may not be used to pay reservation or transaction fees. Bonus Points used toward maintenance fee payments are limited to the amount due and may only be made in increments of $250. Credits toward future maintenance fee payments are not permitted. Member remains responsible for payment of any portion of the maintenance fee not paid by the Bonus Points. Bonus Points have no redemption cash value, but when using Bonus Points toward maintenance fees, 2,500 Bonus Points are equivalent to approximately $250. When using Bonus Points for exchange reservations, each Bonus Point is equivalent to one Point. Bonus Points are valid after six (6) months of timely loan payments, or when at least twenty percent (20%) is paid toward the applicable ownership interest (whichever comes first). Any unused Bonus Points expire two (2) years from the ownership purchase date. If a Member sells or transfers their timeshare interest and their Hilton Club Membership terminates, unused Bonus Points shall expire. Bonus Point usage may be subject to additional terms and conditions. Available Bonus Point redemptions, rewards and terms and conditions may change from time to time.

Good Luck and Welcome to TUG :hi:
 

alwysonvac

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
14,143
Reaction score
2,329
Points
798
The Hilton Club is not deeded but Right to Use (RTU). I don't know how many more years are left.

Also check whether resale Hilton Club – New York owners get Gold HHonors status. I know they use to but I don't know if this is the case anymore

Seth Nock or Judy Kozlowski, the recommended TUG resale agents would know.
http://sellingtimeshares.net/contact.html
http://www.judikoz.com/ContactUs.aspx
 
Last edited:

sjuhawk_jd

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2005
Messages
1,659
Reaction score
10
Points
248
Location
Philadelphia
Oh no ! Cancel! You can buy 7000 points for less than half that right now. I know 5000 pts are going for around 4500 or less - cancel!!! Spend time here with us - you can always go back to Hilton if you decide to buy it AFTER you spend time researching. Follow the directions very carefully when you cancel or you will be stuck. WElcome to TUG
HGVC points can not be used to stay at the Hilton Club; you have to own at Hilton Club to stay there or occasionally you may get something there via RCI. Staying at West 57th stay via HGVC points is also uncertain since you can only book 44 days before your check out date.

Even in resale (ebay) Hilton club points go for higher value than HGVC points. Therefore, depending on the "real" value of the bonus points they are giving you, it may not be a bad deal for you.
 

optimist

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
492
Reaction score
37
Points
238
Location
New Jersey
I am a newcomer to Hilton but I can tell you that it is one of the few systems that allows a resale purchaser the benefits of buying direct from the developer (i.e. converting your points to Hilton Honors points) so there is really no incentive to overpay and buy from Hilton direct.

Rescind and save yourself a LOT of money. The bonus points are not worth it. I have become a gold member from my AmEX expenditures alone.
 

siesta

TUG Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2010
Messages
3,456
Reaction score
25
Points
283
some great advice already. hope he is rescinding and didn't get screwed on the 'weekends count as days' thing.
 

ricoba

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
6,272
Reaction score
2
Points
323
Location
Metro Los Angeles
You have received some excellent advice.:)

Just follow it and enjoy spending all the money you save on taking more trips more often! :D

Welcome to TUG. :wave:
 

sjuhawk_jd

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2005
Messages
1,659
Reaction score
10
Points
248
Location
Philadelphia
You have received some excellent advice.:)

Just follow it and enjoy spending all the money you save on taking more trips more often! :D

Welcome to TUG. :wave:
People advising do not understand the value of the Hilton Club and how it works! Hilton club comes with free breakfast, free hot/cold drinks throughout the day and free evening beer/wine and snacks during each day. Daily maid service, wonderful wonderful conceirge service to get reservations and other recommendations without waiting in long lines for such service, and you have to own Hilton Club to stay there! Hilton club resales do not come very often. The generic advise about "buy resale" may not apply here, although it may be worthwhile for OP to do more research on this before buying from Hilton.

BTW, most of my HGVC points are resale.
 

siesta

TUG Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2010
Messages
3,456
Reaction score
25
Points
283
I understand enough to know that no amount of "free" breakfasts, hot drinks, snacks, pillow fluffs, special lines to make me feel more "elite", can add up to the difference one would pay from buying from the developer. But to each his own, and I respect your opinion.
 

alwysonvac

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
14,143
Reaction score
2,329
Points
798

ricoba

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
6,272
Reaction score
2
Points
323
Location
Metro Los Angeles
Judy has 22 Hilton Club NY listings and 14 W57th St listings on her site.
http://www.judikoz.com/Search.aspx (search by STATE)

but no one should expect resale bargains on the w57 street location because it's still new.
Thanks for your good diligence. All those prices from what I could tell were far less than what the OP was offered.

To the OP, Judy K. is a well respected resale agent here on TUG, so maybe you could call her and talk things over.
 

LondonAndy

Guest
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
23
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
London
Wow - go to bed and wake up to all this great advice.

You definitely still do get the Hhonors Gold with the Hilton Club, and you definitely don't get that with resale. Is that in itself worth $10K? No.

You are right that the bonus points have to be used at W57th Street rather than Hilton Club (if you want to go to New York). I hadn't picked up on the 44 day rule - thank you for that. Clearly it would be good to book flights more than 44 days out!

They already upped the bonus points from 15,000 to 20,000 so I'm not sure how much more they would do.

I had exchanged e-mails with Judy and there are 7,000 points available for $10,000 (so half the price) but the sales guy said that at that level they would exercise ROFR and that there could be all sorts of legal problems with unpaid maintainance, leins etc. which I guess there could be.

I think that we've got until tomorrow so I'll have a look at the paperwork tonight. If I stay with the direct purchase I don't think that it is the worst deal in the universe but thanks for your thoughts and views on this - they really are appreciated.
 

alwysonvac

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
14,143
Reaction score
2,329
Points
798
You definitely still do get the Hhonors Gold with the Hilton Club, and you definitely don't get that with resale. Is that in itself worth $10K? No.
Yes, if you buy direct from Hilton you get this benefit but you use to get HHonors Gold when you bought Hilton Club NY resale as well. Judy use to advertise it with her eBAY ADs for the Hilton Club NY. Did you confirm with Judy that this is no longer true?
Don't rely on whatever you heard from the sales guy. They lie.

You are right that the bonus points have to be used at W57th Street rather than Hilton Club (if you want to go to New York). I hadn't picked up on the 44 day rule - thank you for that. Clearly it would be good to book flights more than 44 days out!
Did you also pick up on the rule that you can only use bonus points at Hilton Club NY during Open Season which is 30 days before check-out (not Home or Club Season).

They already upped the bonus points from 15,000 to 20,000 so I'm not sure how much more they would do.
The amount of bonus points offered changes all of the time. It could be more or less.
If you tell them you saw lower resale prices online and you're thinking about backing out of the offer, they may even sweeten your deal. :rofl:
see this thread - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128194&highlight=sweeten

But only call your sales guy if you're really thinking about buying directly otherwise why go through the torture of another sales pitch - simply follow the instructions on how to rescind.
I had exchanged e-mails with Judy and there are 7,000 points available for $10,000 (so half the price) but the sales guy said that at that level they would exercise ROFR and that there could be all sorts of legal problems with unpaid maintainance, leins etc. which I guess there could be.
The sales guys say that all of the time to newbies to scare them into buying direct from Hilton.
See this old thread "Help: Eight Reasons NOT to buy Resale" - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97652&highlight=scare

Look at everything Judy has listed. There are others listed for less than $10K (remember these are asking prices). For example:
MLS# 11066 - 7,000 pt annual for $6500
MLS# 10650 - 7,000 pt annual for $8750
MLS# 10321 - 7,000 pt annual for $8800
MLS# 10436 - 7,000 pt annual for $9500
MLS# 10896 - 9,000 pt annual for $10000
MLS# 9110 - 9,000 pt annual for $11000
MLS# 10751 - 9,000 pt annual for $11250
 
Last edited:

KathyA

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Messages
147
Reaction score
25
Points
389
Location
Washington DC
People advising do not understand the value of the Hilton Club and how it works! Hilton club comes with free breakfast, free hot/cold drinks throughout the day and free evening beer/wine and snacks during each day. Daily maid service, wonderful wonderful conceirge service to get reservations and other recommendations without waiting in long lines for such service, and you have to own Hilton Club to stay there! Hilton club resales do not come very often. The generic advise about "buy resale" may not apply here, although it may be worthwhile for OP to do more research on this before buying from Hilton.

BTW, most of my HGVC points are resale.
I agree. I own at The Hilton Club and think the price you're getting is a good deal. Remember that with The Hilton Club you can book your bonus points into any Hilton family hotel, so you can still stay in NY for a week if you want, just not at The Hilton Club itself. You can even stay in that same hotel if you want. I agree with Judy that Hilton will definitely exercise ROFR at the $10,000 rate. (But of course the seller gets paid one way or the other, so if they get someone to put in an offer, they get their $10K.) The Hilton Club is a wonderful property--much better than 57th Street in my opinion. Good luck!
 

LondonAndy

Guest
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
23
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
London
LondonAndy, please let us know what you decided to do with your purchase.
Still got a few hours to make a decision! There has been a very recent (ie since we signed!) lifestyle event which means we won't be able to travel too much in the next couple of years. I think that ultimately if they can extend the validity of the Bonus Points from 2 years to 4 years we'll go with Hilton directly. If they won't then we'll cancel.

I'll let you know the final, final decision when I've made it!

Andrew
 

Talent312

Tug Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
15,386
Reaction score
5,232
Points
798
Resorts Owned
HGVC & GTS
I think you'll find that use useful life of Bonus Points is etched in stone, i.e. "a rule." In any event... Even if you can use them effectively, once they're gone, they're gone and you are left with a TS for which you paid far too much.
 

alwysonvac

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
14,143
Reaction score
2,329
Points
798
I agree with Judy that Hilton will definitely exercise ROFR at the $10,000 rate.
The OP stated that the sales guy made the ROFR statement (not Judy).
"I had exchanged e-mails with Judy and there are 7,000 points available for $10,000 (so half the price) but the sales guy said that at that level they would exercise ROFR"
Again the sales guys can't be trusted.

Honestly, I would be surprised if Hilton exercised ROFR at destinations where newer property is currently being sold. Why would they want to add more inventory to the pot when they're trying to unload the new stuff :shrug:

I'm sure ROFR happens once and a while on the older properties but I would think the odds are in the resale buyers favor that HGVC will waiver ROFR on the older properties when they're trying to sell newer units at the same destination. It worked for me at a different location :D
 

jerseygirl

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,327
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Traveling with "lifestyle events" can be fun. My dd earned her first FF miles when she was four weeks old (no sense wasting a good off season maternity leave at home, right?). :D
 

LondonAndy

Guest
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
23
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
London
Thanks to everyone for their advice, and congratulations (it wasn't too subtle, was it?! Travellling with a toddler is fine, but travelling with a toddler and an infant might be a bit tough!). Spoke with Judi on Friday and she has 2 Hilton Club New York sales of interest (9K for $9K and 7K for $6.5K).

The Quality Assurance Manager has stated that "your cancel letter has been received and refund processed" so I guess I'm safe to proceed :)

Let's see if they pass ROFR - a slight fib they told me at Hilton was that you'd incur a lot of fees to get to the stage of ROFR being exercised when in fact Judi says you pay nothing.

From Hilton's point of view they could have extended the validity of the Bonus Points, at no real cost to them, and got $20K from me, whereas they have chosen not to do this and therefore get nothing (assuming it goes through). :shrug:
 
Last edited:
Top