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14 and 15 Night DC Membership Plans

Kagehitokiri

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cool, i had been wondering about some of the prices :)

they did miss one >

portofino - portofino $125K / $8900
portofino - signature $70K / $5900
(equity. non-equity is cheaper, but not published.)
 
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travelguy

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HCC Trial Membership

It's great that Sherpa included the High Country Club Trial Membership in this chart even though it's only available until Aug 31st. It's the only plan with a 100% refund and the cost-per-night is second lowest only to the HCC Associate membership. I'll say this once again ... this is a no-brainer!

This chart should be titled the "Timeshare Replacement Plans" as many of the lower cost plans compete nicely with upper-tier timeshare pricing with far better properties, amenities and services. And I'm still waiting for a DC to offer me a trade-in for my timeshares .... ;)
 

Kagehitokiri

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solstice and perhaps portofino allow unlimited space available travel with no additional fee. if portofino does, IMHO its better than HCC's top plan value wise.

thats definitely far superior to a "timeshare replacement"

also lusso and portofino have unlimited plans with deposits less than solstice, and about the same annual dues.
 
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S

Steamboat Bill

This chart should be titled the "Timeshare Replacement Plans" as many of the lower cost plans compete nicely with upper-tier timeshare pricing with far better properties, amenities and services. And I'm still waiting for a DC to offer me a trade-in for my timeshares .... ;)
This is a very true statement.
 
S

Sherpa

cool, i had been wondering about some of the prices :)

they did miss one >

portofino - portofino $125K / $8900
portofino - signature $70K / $5900
(equity. non-equity is cheaper, but not published.)
Thanks Kagehitokiri, I've now added Portofino and Signature into the table and also added a few notes on them too. I'm waiting to hear back from them on their reservation process. (The numbers I included for both were their non equity plans - where the only difference is the initial membership fee)
 

Kagehitokiri

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wow thats awesome youre on here :D

again great table :clap:

so youre also finding out whether they do still allow unlimited space avail use with no fee?
 
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jim23

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Sherpa:

I was taking a look at your spreadsheet where you calculate the effective cost per night for each club, and I think you overstate the opportunity cost portion of the cost.

1. I think the opportunity cost should only take into account the refundable portion of the initial fee. It should really only represent the investment gains lost because that refundable membership deposit is tied up in the fund. The non-refundable portion is an upfront fee that can not be recovered, so there are no investment gains to be lost on this fee. Additionally, clubs whose members can redeem their membership deposits as a percentage of the current membership fee (like Ultimate Resort) should not have any opportunity costs, as long as the current membership fee has increased at the same rate as the cost of capital.

2. The opportunity cost that you calculate is in future dollars. A dollar ten years in the future is worth significantly less today. To put everything in the same basis, you need to convert that value to current dollars using the cost of capital, or the appropriate discount rate.

Making these two adjustments, which I believe are correct, reduces the effective cost per night by 30-40% for each of the clubs. Let me know what you think.

FYI, I just joined Exclusive Resorts at the Affiliate level and am on the 60-day waiting list. Before making my decision I calculated the cost per night on my own and came up with dramatically lower numbers than Sherpa or the Helium Report, so I wanted to confirm why my numbers were so different. At the Affiliate level I calculated the cost per night to be around $1,500 over 15 years at a 6% cost of capital (Sherpa calculates $2,557). I chose Exclusive Resorts basically believe there is safety in numbers. Because of its size, I think there is much lower risk that the club will go under than other smaller clubs. The properties and locations also appealed to my wife and me more than the other clubs. I will let everyone know what I think after I make my first trip.
 

GregGH

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... and I think you overstate the opportunity cost portion of the cost........
Hello Sherpa et al

Is there a way for an 'advanced' cost calculation for the guys who like to 'crunch' the numbers - as an option? Let the simple page work for most and if there is a die hard accountant or as in my case - an aging MBA who hasn't used Net Present Value calculation in years just to see if he can...:)

Throw in some extras like 'estimate inflation' just to really drive us crazy.

Appreciate the help and work on the page -- for me the 14-15 day option is a good fit.

Would the www.onekeyworld.com all fee/no deposit also fit on this review? Wonder how many more we can find to add. I think we all need to buy a bigger screen for the computer anyways - so we can see them all.

Regards

Greg H
 

saluki

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The non-refundable portion is an upfront fee that can not be recovered, so there are no investment gains to be lost on this fee.
I'm not Sherpa but I don't follow your logic here. The non-refundable money that you use for a initiation fee is money that could have been invested in various ways, thus the 5 - 6% opportunity cost that is typically used.
 

jim23

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I'm not Sherpa but I don't follow your logic here. The non-refundable money that you use for a initiation fee is money that could have been invested in various ways, thus the 5 - 6% opportunity cost that is typically used.
Saluki:

Under your logic, any payment you make would have an opportunity cost, including the annual dues. Therefore, should we also calculate the opportunity cost on the annual dues? I don't think so. For any payment that you are not getting back, the cost is the cost. There is no opportunity cost element to that payment. You should only calculate the opportunity cost on cash that you are getting back but can't invest in the meantime. For the non-refundable deposit, if you put down 80% and get it back x numbers in the future, your opportunity cost is the difference between the amount you put down and the present value of that amount x years in the future. It's simple finance.

I have a more advanced Excel spreadsheet with an NPV calculation like GregGH requested if anyone wants it.
 

saluki

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The way I look at it, one is clearly giving up more money in year one than value received (initiation fee + dues). Using rough ER Affiliate numbers for your membership level, that means ($225,000 + $13,000). The amount of funds laid out in excess of value received is money that the DC is using from you interest-free.

I understand what you are saying, just don't agree. If you are viewing the monetary value of your trips to be in excess of the dues, then I can see deducting that amount from the "lost opportunity" calculation. I am not saying that joining a DC is a bad deal in any way shape or form. But, in my mind, there is clearly some amount of lost opportunity when you are putting down such a large initiation fee.

It all comes down to a lifestyle decision.

That is why, I am happy to announce, I have signed on with HCC under the Trial Membership Plan!

(Now back to my viewing of The British Open on the DVR).
 

jim23

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Saluki

I understand your points. That is a lot of money to put down up front. However, I am doing a strictly financial analysis. What is the cost per night of joining a destination club in today's dollars for a certain number of years at a certain cost of capital? If that is my goal, then my methodology is correct. It's a relatively simple NPV calculation. In my calculation, the non-refundable fee is spread equally across each year of membership. That is equivalent to dividing the non-refundable fee by the number of years, adding it to the annual dues, increasing that total each year by inflation, and then calculating the present value of that payment stream (assuming the cost of capital is equal to inflation). I still don't think I should be adding an opportunity cost to that payment. I think perhaps we are thinking about opportunity costs in different ways. Anyway, we can agree to disagree. I'm confident that my analysis is correct and in my decision to join ER.

(By the way, Sergio's definitely going to choke.)
 
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saluki

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(By the way, Sergio's definitely going to choke.)
:D :D :D

It remains to be seen if he & his new putter get along this weekend. I like Sergio but have a hard time pulling for anyone under 50 using a belly putter.

Let us know how it works out with ER. They obviously have some great destinations.
 

GregGH

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Wonder if any have experiences in requesting weeks-locations? How easy is it to get what you want or something close to what you wanted?

The reservation process has to be the key to long term satisfaction. Just look at the grief to use some frequent flyer miles these days as an example.

I wonder is we can quantify the reservation process with 'points' and see what system is easier? Do they all have web access to view availability for members?? I can see a monster spreadsheet forming somewhere :)

Attached is a quick copy of Sherpa's then flipped in excel - so you can add the extra data - like a qualifier for reservations ...say you give a scoring system for the ease of reservations -then you could do a score system for the locations that are key to you. This is more of a winter project for me - but if others want to share - great. Got to go - tee time in one hour.

Regards

Greg H
 

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travelguy

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That is why, I am happy to announce, I have signed on with HCC under the Trial Membership Plan!
Congratulations on your HCC membership! :clap:

I'm sure you'll be as happy with your HCC experience as the rest of us Tuggers with HCC membership have been. Any thoughts yet on the property you're planning to use?
 

saluki

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Congratulations on your HCC membership! :clap:

I'm sure you'll be as happy with your HCC experience as the rest of us Tuggers with HCC membership have been. Any thoughts yet on the property you're planning to use?
Thanks!

We are probably headed to Beaver Creek Arrowhead. My wife & I are not huge skiers but have been quite a few times & enjoy it. We took our daughter (now 11) to Steamboat 3 years ago & she enjoyed ski school. We will also be taking my 7 year old boy this trip & I have no doubt he will be cruising down the mountain in no time. Apparently, Beaver Creek has a really good kid's program.

I know that Beaver Creek Village Hall is one of the HCC crown jewels but it's pretty booked up for ski season. I have no doubt that the Arrowhead property is very nice also. The reviews of the Colorado properties that you posted a while back were fantastic. It would be great if we could somehow direct more HCC owners here to add to the property reviews.

I am very excited to be in on the early stages of HCC.
 

travelguy

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Thanks!

We are probably headed to Beaver Creek Arrowhead. My wife & I are not huge skiers but have been quite a few times & enjoy it. We took our daughter (now 11) to Steamboat 3 years ago & she enjoyed ski school. We will also be taking my 7 year old boy this trip & I have no doubt he will be cruising down the mountain in no time. Apparently, Beaver Creek has a really good kid's program.

I know that Beaver Creek Village Hall is one of the HCC crown jewels but it's pretty booked up for ski season. I have no doubt that the Arrowhead property is very nice also. The reviews of the Colorado properties that you posted a while back were fantastic. It would be great if we could somehow direct more HCC owners here to add to the property reviews.

I am very excited to be in on the early stages of HCC.
The HCC Beaver Creek Arrowhead property is awesome. It's a 2-story condo that's is very open and airy. The location is great because it's right on the Beaver Creek ski mountain but is much more laid back than the BC village itself.

The BC Village townhouse and the Breckenridge "Lodge" mountain house are the most in-demand HCC ski locations. These are both $2-3 million residences that are spectacular! I've used two of my three 2008 long-term reservations for these two locations. I'm hoping for the BC Arrowhead or Steamboat 4-br house as one of my 6-month reservations.

It's currently difficult to get Destination Club property reviews into the TUG system. I had to contact the TUG administrators to have the HCC Breckenridge property location created in the TUG review section so I could post my review there. The problem is that TUG does not have the DC locations added to the review section and would have trouble keeping up with all the new properties that a DC adds each year. They were very helpful with adding the review since this was the first DC review for both me and them. Maybe Bill could add a sticky with the procedure to get a DC review posted in the TUG review section? I'll continue to post my reviews both in this forum and I'll work with the TUG administrators to have them added to the TUG review section. I am headed to several HCC locations this year including Hilton Head, Orlando, Turks & Caicos, New York City, and Maui. Also note that Sherpa has all the HCC locations on his web site and you can add reviews directly. He's also very helpful.
 
S

Sherpa

Hello Sherpa et al

..................Appreciate the help and work on the page -- for me the 14-15 day option is a good fit.

Would the www.onekeyworld.com all fee/no deposit also fit on this review? Wonder how many more we can find to add. I think we all need to buy a bigger screen for the computer anyways - so we can see them all.

Regards

Greg H
Have added One Key in to the table

Cheers
 
S

Sherpa

wow thats awesome youre on here :D

again great table :clap:

so youre also finding out whether they do still allow unlimited space avail use with no fee?
Ok, just talked to the folks at Portofino today and updated their reservation details in the notes to the table.

They only have unlimited space for their highest level club - The Continental Collection ($3.5m homes).

Regards
 
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