- Joined
- Jul 8, 2012
- Messages
- 1,472
- Reaction score
- 1,287
- Points
- 374
- Location
- Living Aloha in Kaneohe, HI
- Resorts Owned
-
Marriott G. Château
HVC Sedona Summit
VVR The Colonies
This is my 1000th post so I thought I’d share some things I’ve learned from TUG over the years. Since it’s long, I’ll list the topics up front: 1. Rescind, research, resale (in almost all cases), 2. Timeshare “systems”, 3. Points vs weeks, 4. Exchange companies, 5. Trade vs buy where you want to stay, 6. Closing company, Deedback Program, 8. Timeshares aren’t for everyone, 9. Contribute to the community, 10. Become a paid member and get access to Sightings.
If you are new to TUG, welcome!
I realize I risk leaving off “crucial” information since I’m providing an overview of many topics. It is not meant to be an in-depth discussion on each topic. I’m also limiting the majority of my comments to resale weeks, since we own only legacy weeks and developer rules vary between resale weeks and points as well as developer weeks and points.
1. Rescind, research, resale (in almost all cases):
If you’ve purchased a timeshare from a developer in the last few days, TUG conventional wisdom is to “research, rescind, resale”. In rare cases, purchasing from the developer may be the route to go, but resale is fine for the vast majority of timeshare owners. If it’s too late to rescind, don’t be hard on yourself. Most tuggers did the same thing as you. Dig into the information available at TUG and learn to fully utilize your timeshare. There are plenty of posts where tuggers discuss not being able to rescind in time, but they made the most of their timeshare ownership.
We purchased our first timeshare in 2003 from a developer, and it turned out to be one of the best things we’ve ever done. We were blissfully unaware of the resale market. We’ve had some amazing family trips/vacations. We enjoyed it so much, we decided to purchase a second timeshare. It was then we discovered TUG. Based on what we read on TUG, we were able to successfully rescind our purchase. We also discovered the resale market, and have acquired 6 additional timeshares, all on the resale market. Our lowest purchase cost was $9 total and included use that year. We currently own 4 since we sold one, gave one to a fellow tugger, and gave one back to the developer (more on deedbacks below).
2. Timeshare companies/“systems”:
This could be a long post by itself, but I’ll limit my discussion.
There are many timeshare systems out there. Marriott, Vistana (Westin and Sheraton - recently purchased by Marriott), Disney, Hilton, Hyatt, DRI, Wyndham, and Worldmark are some of the primary developers. Marriott, Westin, Sheraton, and Hyatt (others?) are separate entities from the hotel company, but they license the right to use the name. There’s also Welk, Vacation Village Resorts, Bluegreen, Holiday Inn Club Vacations, Westgate, and independents. I’m sure I’ve missed a few that other tuggers know. It’s important to consider where you want to vacation prior to purchasing, especially if you intend on trading internally within the system (if allowed). Unless you use an external trading company (more on that below), you will be limited to traveling to the locations within the system.
For nearly all systems and regardless of weeks or points ownership, it’s best to plan 12-13 months in advance. Prime weeks and locations go fast. While timelines may not match, resort systems have a process where you can reserve a unit X months (12-13) in advance at your “home” resort/collection of resorts (based on system and level of ownership/points). Then at Y months (8) you can reserve at other locations after “home” resort/collection owners have had a chance to reserve. Again timelines and systems vary, but the concept is similar.
3. Points vs weeks:
Most systems have weeks and/or points ownerships, but almost all developers are currently selling points only; there are exceptions (TS in Mexico and others), but I’m not including them here. If you want to purchase a week, it’s usually best to purchase resale; in some cases, it’s the only way.
Some developers, like Marriott, will sell a week with the caveat that you must purchase a specified number of points. Disney, Hyatt, and Hilton (others?) developer and resale weeks have an associated value in points; the points can be used for reserving other resorts within each system. Depending on when, how, and where you purchased, you may be allowed to have points associated with your ownership which allows you to reserve other resorts within the system you’re in. Ensure you understand they system.
A primary benefit of points is that you have the ability to reserve a week at a larger number of resorts when compared to weeks owners. Some systems let you reserve less than a week, starting and ending of the days of your choice. This may lead to a savings on airfare since it’s typically less on certain weekdays. There are clear advantages to owning points, but those advantages cost extra.
A dated, but good, chart for comparing points systems is located here:
We prefer weeks, especially considering weeks typically have lower MFs. In addition, lock-off/lock-out (LO) units provide a great benefit. If you own a LO unit, you can exchange for 2 weeks through II since each side can be deposited for exchange. I’ll highlight 2 cases with our ownership.
1) We own a 2BR LO Sedona Summit week with DRI. Our MFs are less than the MFs associated with points for the same unit. Unlike points owners, we don’t get priority access to other resorts within the “collection”, but we can use DRI’s internal trading system (DX), II, and/or RCI to trade our unit. DX provides the ability to exchange into virtually all DRI resorts as well their partner resorts. We may not have the flexibility of points, but we have access to the locations (and dates) we wish to travel.
2) We previously owned a 3BR LO at Marriott’s Grand Chateau (we now own a 2BR LO). If we had qualified for points, we would have received enough points to reserve only one 2BR Mountain View week at Marriott’s Ko Olina Beach Club; however, as a week owner, we could split it into 2 reservations, and trade for 2 weeks at Ko Olina. As a bonus, the weeks could be oceanview. We did this multiple times. We were so successful, we recently sold the 3BR LO and purchased a 2BR LO since the MFs are less. While the exchange power associated with the studio is less, we are still fine with the availability we see in II.
4. Exchange companies:
The 2 largest/well known exchange companies are Interval International (II) and Resorts Condominiums International (RCI). RCI has more overall availability, but II has more of the major developers and higher quality resorts. They both have pros and cons, but we prefer II. Depending on your resort, you may be able to pick one or more exchange companies. In some cases, you will only be able to use the exchange company specified by the developer.
Some systems such as Marriott and Vistana have a priority/preference period within II. This means that for some/most deposits, owners within the system have an exclusive period (20+ days) where they are the only ones with access to the inventory. Those owners typically exchange into the better weeks and larger units. You may still eventually see some of the units, but they will be smaller units during low demand weeks. Sometimes they will deposit weeks without preference so you still have an opportunity to get decent weeks/units.
II and RCI aren’t the only game in town. There’s also San Francisco Exchange (SFX), Trading Places International, Dial An Exchange, Platinum Interchange, Hawaiian Exchange, Trading Places, and Trading Places Maui. I’m sure I missed a few as well. The other exchange companies are more “niche”, but they work great if your desires match their specialty.
I’ll discuss SFX, since I’m a fan. SFX has come through on multiple occasions when I wanted a week in Hawaii. Others aren’t so fond of them, but I’ll continue using them. I wouldn’t exchange my Marriott or Vistana unit with them, but I’ve used my Colonies unit with great success. I was able to get a week at HGVC on the Big Island; II and RCI did not have availability for the specific week I needed, but SFX instantly confirmed me. I’ve also been able to exchange for The Point of Poipu, and Kauai Beach Villas.
5. Trade vs buy where you want to stay:
TUG conventional wisdom is to buy where you want to stay. For weeks owners, this may hold true if you intend to stay at the same resort every single year. This is one of the few times I disagree, in part, with the conventional wisdom...at least for our situation. All 4 of our timeshares are traders. It requires more work, but it works for us.
Related to trading, tuggers caution against buying traders in overbuilt areas. Williamsburg, Orlando, and Las Vegas are consistently mentioned in this category. This is another area I disagree with the conventional wisdom. We own a trader in each of those cities, and we’ve had great success with exchanging into phenomenal resorts (see bonus at the end). A bigger factor, IMO, is the demand for your week. We purchased units where we can reserve in the highest demand week in order to get the greatest exchange power for that resort. See bonus section for trades we’ve made with our Colonies unit which is in Williamsburg.
6. Closing company:
If you are looking for a closing company, look no further than LT Transfers. Tuggers overwhelmingly recommend them. They are fellow tuggers, and they provide excellent service at an excellent price. We’ve used them 3 times with great success, and they will always be the first closing company we turn to when buying or selling our timeshares.
7. Deedback Programs:
Depending on your timeshare system and whether you purchased from the developer, you may be eligible to give your timeshare back to the developer/HOA. You may have to pay a fee, but you will be “free” from your timeshare after that. You need to be up to date on MFs and not have a loan. In some (most/all?) cases, you must have purchased from the developer.
After 10+ years of owning the timeshare we purchased from the developer, we decided to upgrade from 2BR LO to 4BR LO so we purchased resale at one of their sister resorts. Thanks to TUG, we learned about a deedback program with the resort. We had to pay a fee, but we were able to give the unit back to the resort.
8. Timeshares aren’t for everyone:
I’ll make this short; for a variety of reasons, timeshares aren’t for everyone…and that’s okay.
9. Contribute to the community:
Be generous with advice and stingy with snarky comments. If you have an answer to someone’s question, please contribute.
I’ve learned so much from TUG, the least I can do is return the favor. Similarly if you have a question, please ask since there are others who probably have the same questions, or others who will discover TUG later, and be able to get the answer by searching TUG. There’s no question too trivial.
10. Become a paid member and get access to Sightings:
In addition to all the great information available on the public forums, it’s worth it to become a member to get access to the private Sightings forum. Tuggers will post great weeks available in II and RCI inventories. In addition, you can gain insight into the best times to search for instant availability within exchange systems. Several of our great exchanges are a direct result of a tugger posting availability in the Sightings forum. You’ll be supporting the best resource available for timeshare owners.
Bonus – II trade power:
As previously mentioned, we primarily use II for trading. II has a tier system for identifying quality resorts. In order, resorts are either basic (no designation), select (silver), premiere (gold), and elite (lotus). Trading power is a mysterious black box with an undisclosed formula/algorithm, but tuggersspeculate think it's a combination of: resort level/quality; trade demand index (supply/demand) for location/area, specific resort, and deposited week; # bedrooms; kitchen type; resort ratings from traders; date of deposit; deposit first vs request first; and maybe a few others I've missed. I’ve done test with float weeks, and discovered highest demand weeks pulled more inventory. Some will tell you that the # of bedrooms carries significant weight, maybe even the most weight...but none of us really know.
Our Colonies unit is a premiere 4BR fixed week 26 in Williamsburg. Some years it includes July 4th. Most years, it’s the week before. We lock-off every year into 2 2BR units. Here are the trades we’ve been able to get with 2BR units since 2016:
Marriott's Ko Olina Beach Club - studio x2, 1BR
Marriott Waiahai Beach Club - 2BR
Marriott Cypress Harbour – 2BR x2
Marriott's Grande Vista - 2BR, 3BR
Westin Princeville Ocean Resort Villas - 1BR x2
Westin Nanea Ocean Resort Villas - 2BR
Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas - 1BR
Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort North - studio
Kona Coast - 2BR, 1BR
Point at Poipu 2BR
The Cliffs Club - 1BR
Lawai Beach Resort Banyan Building - 2BR
Hyatt High Sierra Lodge - 2BR Prime ski week
Hilton Bay Club - 2BR
Hilton Kohala Suites - 2BR
Grand Luxxe (Riveria Maya and Nuevo Vallarta) - 2BR, 3BR, 4BR
Las Residencias Golf & Beach Club - 3BR
Hacienda Encantada Resort and Spa – 2BR
It's possible to stay in great resorts in great locations even if you don't own within the system. It definitely helps if you own within the system; however, our trades with our Colonies unit clearly demonstrate it's possible to get superb trades with other units.
I hope you get as much from TUG as I have. Here’s to the next 1000 posts!
If you are new to TUG, welcome!
I realize I risk leaving off “crucial” information since I’m providing an overview of many topics. It is not meant to be an in-depth discussion on each topic. I’m also limiting the majority of my comments to resale weeks, since we own only legacy weeks and developer rules vary between resale weeks and points as well as developer weeks and points.
1. Rescind, research, resale (in almost all cases):
If you’ve purchased a timeshare from a developer in the last few days, TUG conventional wisdom is to “research, rescind, resale”. In rare cases, purchasing from the developer may be the route to go, but resale is fine for the vast majority of timeshare owners. If it’s too late to rescind, don’t be hard on yourself. Most tuggers did the same thing as you. Dig into the information available at TUG and learn to fully utilize your timeshare. There are plenty of posts where tuggers discuss not being able to rescind in time, but they made the most of their timeshare ownership.
We purchased our first timeshare in 2003 from a developer, and it turned out to be one of the best things we’ve ever done. We were blissfully unaware of the resale market. We’ve had some amazing family trips/vacations. We enjoyed it so much, we decided to purchase a second timeshare. It was then we discovered TUG. Based on what we read on TUG, we were able to successfully rescind our purchase. We also discovered the resale market, and have acquired 6 additional timeshares, all on the resale market. Our lowest purchase cost was $9 total and included use that year. We currently own 4 since we sold one, gave one to a fellow tugger, and gave one back to the developer (more on deedbacks below).
2. Timeshare companies/“systems”:
This could be a long post by itself, but I’ll limit my discussion.
There are many timeshare systems out there. Marriott, Vistana (Westin and Sheraton - recently purchased by Marriott), Disney, Hilton, Hyatt, DRI, Wyndham, and Worldmark are some of the primary developers. Marriott, Westin, Sheraton, and Hyatt (others?) are separate entities from the hotel company, but they license the right to use the name. There’s also Welk, Vacation Village Resorts, Bluegreen, Holiday Inn Club Vacations, Westgate, and independents. I’m sure I’ve missed a few that other tuggers know. It’s important to consider where you want to vacation prior to purchasing, especially if you intend on trading internally within the system (if allowed). Unless you use an external trading company (more on that below), you will be limited to traveling to the locations within the system.
For nearly all systems and regardless of weeks or points ownership, it’s best to plan 12-13 months in advance. Prime weeks and locations go fast. While timelines may not match, resort systems have a process where you can reserve a unit X months (12-13) in advance at your “home” resort/collection of resorts (based on system and level of ownership/points). Then at Y months (8) you can reserve at other locations after “home” resort/collection owners have had a chance to reserve. Again timelines and systems vary, but the concept is similar.
3. Points vs weeks:
Most systems have weeks and/or points ownerships, but almost all developers are currently selling points only; there are exceptions (TS in Mexico and others), but I’m not including them here. If you want to purchase a week, it’s usually best to purchase resale; in some cases, it’s the only way.
Some developers, like Marriott, will sell a week with the caveat that you must purchase a specified number of points. Disney, Hyatt, and Hilton (others?) developer and resale weeks have an associated value in points; the points can be used for reserving other resorts within each system. Depending on when, how, and where you purchased, you may be allowed to have points associated with your ownership which allows you to reserve other resorts within the system you’re in. Ensure you understand they system.
A primary benefit of points is that you have the ability to reserve a week at a larger number of resorts when compared to weeks owners. Some systems let you reserve less than a week, starting and ending of the days of your choice. This may lead to a savings on airfare since it’s typically less on certain weekdays. There are clear advantages to owning points, but those advantages cost extra.
A dated, but good, chart for comparing points systems is located here:
Timeshare System Points Comparison Chart
side by side comparison chart of all the major Timeshare Point systems
tug2.net
We prefer weeks, especially considering weeks typically have lower MFs. In addition, lock-off/lock-out (LO) units provide a great benefit. If you own a LO unit, you can exchange for 2 weeks through II since each side can be deposited for exchange. I’ll highlight 2 cases with our ownership.
1) We own a 2BR LO Sedona Summit week with DRI. Our MFs are less than the MFs associated with points for the same unit. Unlike points owners, we don’t get priority access to other resorts within the “collection”, but we can use DRI’s internal trading system (DX), II, and/or RCI to trade our unit. DX provides the ability to exchange into virtually all DRI resorts as well their partner resorts. We may not have the flexibility of points, but we have access to the locations (and dates) we wish to travel.
2) We previously owned a 3BR LO at Marriott’s Grand Chateau (we now own a 2BR LO). If we had qualified for points, we would have received enough points to reserve only one 2BR Mountain View week at Marriott’s Ko Olina Beach Club; however, as a week owner, we could split it into 2 reservations, and trade for 2 weeks at Ko Olina. As a bonus, the weeks could be oceanview. We did this multiple times. We were so successful, we recently sold the 3BR LO and purchased a 2BR LO since the MFs are less. While the exchange power associated with the studio is less, we are still fine with the availability we see in II.
4. Exchange companies:
The 2 largest/well known exchange companies are Interval International (II) and Resorts Condominiums International (RCI). RCI has more overall availability, but II has more of the major developers and higher quality resorts. They both have pros and cons, but we prefer II. Depending on your resort, you may be able to pick one or more exchange companies. In some cases, you will only be able to use the exchange company specified by the developer.
Some systems such as Marriott and Vistana have a priority/preference period within II. This means that for some/most deposits, owners within the system have an exclusive period (20+ days) where they are the only ones with access to the inventory. Those owners typically exchange into the better weeks and larger units. You may still eventually see some of the units, but they will be smaller units during low demand weeks. Sometimes they will deposit weeks without preference so you still have an opportunity to get decent weeks/units.
II and RCI aren’t the only game in town. There’s also San Francisco Exchange (SFX), Trading Places International, Dial An Exchange, Platinum Interchange, Hawaiian Exchange, Trading Places, and Trading Places Maui. I’m sure I missed a few as well. The other exchange companies are more “niche”, but they work great if your desires match their specialty.
I’ll discuss SFX, since I’m a fan. SFX has come through on multiple occasions when I wanted a week in Hawaii. Others aren’t so fond of them, but I’ll continue using them. I wouldn’t exchange my Marriott or Vistana unit with them, but I’ve used my Colonies unit with great success. I was able to get a week at HGVC on the Big Island; II and RCI did not have availability for the specific week I needed, but SFX instantly confirmed me. I’ve also been able to exchange for The Point of Poipu, and Kauai Beach Villas.
5. Trade vs buy where you want to stay:
TUG conventional wisdom is to buy where you want to stay. For weeks owners, this may hold true if you intend to stay at the same resort every single year. This is one of the few times I disagree, in part, with the conventional wisdom...at least for our situation. All 4 of our timeshares are traders. It requires more work, but it works for us.
Related to trading, tuggers caution against buying traders in overbuilt areas. Williamsburg, Orlando, and Las Vegas are consistently mentioned in this category. This is another area I disagree with the conventional wisdom. We own a trader in each of those cities, and we’ve had great success with exchanging into phenomenal resorts (see bonus at the end). A bigger factor, IMO, is the demand for your week. We purchased units where we can reserve in the highest demand week in order to get the greatest exchange power for that resort. See bonus section for trades we’ve made with our Colonies unit which is in Williamsburg.
6. Closing company:
If you are looking for a closing company, look no further than LT Transfers. Tuggers overwhelmingly recommend them. They are fellow tuggers, and they provide excellent service at an excellent price. We’ve used them 3 times with great success, and they will always be the first closing company we turn to when buying or selling our timeshares.
7. Deedback Programs:
Depending on your timeshare system and whether you purchased from the developer, you may be eligible to give your timeshare back to the developer/HOA. You may have to pay a fee, but you will be “free” from your timeshare after that. You need to be up to date on MFs and not have a loan. In some (most/all?) cases, you must have purchased from the developer.
After 10+ years of owning the timeshare we purchased from the developer, we decided to upgrade from 2BR LO to 4BR LO so we purchased resale at one of their sister resorts. Thanks to TUG, we learned about a deedback program with the resort. We had to pay a fee, but we were able to give the unit back to the resort.
8. Timeshares aren’t for everyone:
I’ll make this short; for a variety of reasons, timeshares aren’t for everyone…and that’s okay.
9. Contribute to the community:
Be generous with advice and stingy with snarky comments. If you have an answer to someone’s question, please contribute.
I’ve learned so much from TUG, the least I can do is return the favor. Similarly if you have a question, please ask since there are others who probably have the same questions, or others who will discover TUG later, and be able to get the answer by searching TUG. There’s no question too trivial.
10. Become a paid member and get access to Sightings:
In addition to all the great information available on the public forums, it’s worth it to become a member to get access to the private Sightings forum. Tuggers will post great weeks available in II and RCI inventories. In addition, you can gain insight into the best times to search for instant availability within exchange systems. Several of our great exchanges are a direct result of a tugger posting availability in the Sightings forum. You’ll be supporting the best resource available for timeshare owners.
Bonus – II trade power:
As previously mentioned, we primarily use II for trading. II has a tier system for identifying quality resorts. In order, resorts are either basic (no designation), select (silver), premiere (gold), and elite (lotus). Trading power is a mysterious black box with an undisclosed formula/algorithm, but tuggers
Our Colonies unit is a premiere 4BR fixed week 26 in Williamsburg. Some years it includes July 4th. Most years, it’s the week before. We lock-off every year into 2 2BR units. Here are the trades we’ve been able to get with 2BR units since 2016:
Marriott's Ko Olina Beach Club - studio x2, 1BR
Marriott Waiahai Beach Club - 2BR
Marriott Cypress Harbour – 2BR x2
Marriott's Grande Vista - 2BR, 3BR
Westin Princeville Ocean Resort Villas - 1BR x2
Westin Nanea Ocean Resort Villas - 2BR
Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas - 1BR
Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort North - studio
Kona Coast - 2BR, 1BR
Point at Poipu 2BR
The Cliffs Club - 1BR
Lawai Beach Resort Banyan Building - 2BR
Hyatt High Sierra Lodge - 2BR Prime ski week
Hilton Bay Club - 2BR
Hilton Kohala Suites - 2BR
Grand Luxxe (Riveria Maya and Nuevo Vallarta) - 2BR, 3BR, 4BR
Las Residencias Golf & Beach Club - 3BR
Hacienda Encantada Resort and Spa – 2BR
It's possible to stay in great resorts in great locations even if you don't own within the system. It definitely helps if you own within the system; however, our trades with our Colonies unit clearly demonstrate it's possible to get superb trades with other units.
I hope you get as much from TUG as I have. Here’s to the next 1000 posts!
