[Closed - new thread started] Will Hawaii Open by [OCTOBER???] [Please use this thread for all Hawaii Coronavirus discussions]

[Tamaradarann]

Agree. But, it is inaccurate or incomplete to say "one test with results that are negative needs to be what keeps you from the required 14 day quarantine." It is inaccurate because it ignores the CRITICAL point that the "one test" must be within 72 hours of arrival. You're ignoring that. But I'm not addressing keeping Hawaii free of COVID. I'm addressing a solution to the problem of potentially not having your test result within 72 hours of you boarding the plane. How to "know" it is okay to go anyway.

If you KNOW for sure you'll have the test result back in 1-2 days, great. We're on the same page. But if you cannot know that, which is often going to be the case, one may not want to head to Hawaii and risk landing and finding out someone was positive. Then you have the problems you described of potentially infecting others, and the problem of having to quarantine for 14 days in Hawaii. All I was trying to do was lay out a plan for helping make that a very unlikely thing to happen and still be able to go.

Where I got that from was your comment, "relying on a 2nd test on arrival." My entire post was about NOT "relying" on a test after arrival by knowing what those test results will be. So, instead of "relying" on that test, you are merely "waiting" for it. By taking an earlier test and quarantining before the "required" test you can know with a high degree of confidence that the "required" test (within 72 hours) will be negative, eliminating the risk of flying over without having your required test result.

It's not perfect, but it (I believe) greatly reduces your risk of a surprise positive test result while still allowing you to go.

OK, now I understand your focus was a plan for not getting the results back in 72 hours. My focus was keeping Hawaii as safe as possible. My nickel in this discussion comes from 2 different places. While I am currently residing in New York, I have been and still will be a tourist when I return to Hawaii. However, I now own a Condonmium in Honolulu so I look at this as a resident of Hawaii as well. I am not interested in just a safe enjoyable trip to Hawaii, I am interested in remaining safe in Hawaii for the future. From my perspecgtive whatever is set up must optimize the safety of the residents of Hawaii as well as getting the Hawaii Econcomy moving again. While we had plans for going to Hawaii in late 2020 and staying into the middle of 2021, we are now resigned to staying in New York until sometime in 2021.

As far as getting the results back in 72 hours or 5 days etc. Hawaii announced a "partnership" with CVS for the Coronavirus Testing. Well I don't know what that partnership was but from my perspective if Hawaii was speaking of exempting the quarantine with negative test results within 72 hours of departure, then CVS' end of the partnership HAD TO BE to providing the results within 72 hours. If CVS can't do that then what was the partnership? If CVS can only turn the test around with 5 days, and that is medically acceptable, then Hawaii needs to change the requirement for exempting the quarantine to 5 days. The medically acceptable term is important and I believe you are in a better position than I to address that.

The other testing and travel issue that I haven't heard discussed that concerns me is getting tested and then getting infected before your flight. Our flights to Hawaii have always been in the winter. I don't know how others handle this but even before the Coronavirus we would stay away from our Grandchildren and Large Events about a week before our flight so that we wouldn't catch the Flu or a Common Cold before a flight. In view of the Coronavirus I would hope everyone who flys would take that type of pre-flight precaution.

 

[csodjd]

OK, now I understand your focus was a plan for not getting the results back in 72 hours. My focus was keeping Hawaii as safe as possible. My nickel in this discussion comes from 2 different places. While I am currently residing in New York, I have been and still will be a tourist when I return to Hawaii. However, I now own a Condonmium in Honolulu so I look at this as a resident of Hawaii as well. I am not interested in just a safe enjoyable trip to Hawaii, I am interested in remaining safe in Hawaii for the future. From my perspecgtive whatever is set up must optimize the safety of the residents of Hawaii as well as getting the Hawaii Econcomy moving again. While we had plans for going to Hawaii in late 2020 and staying into the middle of 2021, we are now resigned to staying in New York until sometime in 2021.

As far as getting the results back in 72 hours or 5 days etc. Hawaii announced a "partnership" with CVS for the Coronavirus Testing. Well I don't know what that partnership was but from my perspective if Hawaii was speaking of exempting the quarantine with negative test results within 72 hours of departure, then CVS' end of the partnership HAD TO BE to providing the results within 72 hours. If CVS can't do that then what was the partnership? If CVS can only turn the test around with 5 days, and that is medically acceptable, then Hawaii needs to change the requirement for exempting the quarantine to 5 days. The medically acceptable term is important and I believe you are in a better position than I to address that.

The other testing and travel issue that I haven't heard discussed that concerns me is getting tested and then getting infected before your flight. Our flights to Hawaii have always been in the winter. I don't know how others handle this but even before the Coronavirus we would stay away from our Grandchildren and Large Events about a week before our flight so that we wouldn't catch the Flu or a Common Cold before a flight. In view of the Coronavirus I would hope everyone who flys would take that type of pre-flight precaution.

I‘d say there are three risks. One is what you say, becoming infected after the test, before the departure. The other two are related, and those are the sources of false negatives: a bad test, or a test too soon (you are infected, but it’s not detectable yet). The 72 hour “rule” Hawaii is using is a compromise. Ideally you’d be tested and get near immediate results right before getting on the plane. But that’s obviously not feasible. So Hawaii’s authorities know and accept that the 72 hour window will miss some infections and there WILL be an increase in cases on the islands. But if they feel they have the testing and contact tracing tools to meet the demand they can quickly isolate any breakout, so they feel the risk (relative to the economic benefits) is worth it.

There is nothing magic about 72 hours. If it was 5 days you’d increase the number of infected people making it to Hawaii. If it was 1 day you’d decrease that, but nobody would have test results. So they’re just trying to find a happy compromise.

From my perspective, and I hope others, from the a day or two before testing until departure, my family will strictly limit doing anything that risks exposure (save for the airport, which obviously can’t be avoided). This will help reduce risk of false negative. I also don’t trust self-tests. I want a professional to obtain the sample. We don’t want to bring infection to Hawaii, and we don’t want to spend our vacation in quarantine or in a hospital in Hawaii!

 

[Tamaradarann]

10th Proclamation extending the 14 day quarantine signed

https://governor.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/2007090-ATG_Tenth-Supplementary-Proclamation-for-COVID-19-distribution-signed.pdf

While this document clearing states that those that are involved with critical infrastrucure are exempt from the quaratine, I don't see anything about exempting military and airline flight personel. This document is so long that I could have missed it but is it in there or is it assumed that they are exempt?

 

[dsmrp]

I tried reading the travel rules within the 10th proclamation. It does not state as far as I interpret, an additional quarantine for each island visited. THere had been one in effect and that was relaxed a few weeks ago. So if I do 14 day quarantine on Oahu, then I could fly to say Mauii, and not have to quarantine again?

DH and I need to go to Honolulu to help with home care for my mother with non-Covid health problem . Hopefully no one subsequently gets covid from flight travel or health treatment facilities. We are thinking of going to another island for a TBD few days at the end of our stay.

 

[lynne]

I tried reading the travel rules within the 10th proclamation. It does not state as far as I interpret, an additional quarantine for each island visited. THere had been one in effect and that was relaxed a few weeks ago. So if I do 14 day quarantine on Oahu, then I could fly to say Mauii, and not have to quarantine again?

DH and I need to go to Honolulu to help with home care for my mother with non-Covid health problem . Hopefully no one subsequently gets covid from flight travel or health treatment facilities. We are thinking of going to another island for a TBD few days at the end of our stay.

Once you have completed your 14 day quarantine, you are allowed to travel inter-island quarantine free.

 

[Tamaradarann]

I‘d say there are three risks. One is what you say, becoming infected after the test, before the departure. The other two are related, and those are the sources of false negatives: a bad test, or a test too soon (you are infected, but it’s not detectable yet). The 72 hour “rule” Hawaii is using is a compromise. Ideally you’d be tested and get near immediate results right before getting on the plane. But that’s obviously not feasible. So Hawaii’s authorities know and accept that the 72 hour window will miss some infections and there WILL be an increase in cases on the islands. But if they feel they have the testing and contact tracing tools to meet the demand they can quickly isolate any breakout, so they feel the risk (relative to the economic benefits) is worth it.

There is nothing magic about 72 hours. If it was 5 days you’d increase the number of infected people making it to Hawaii. If it was 1 day you’d decrease that, but nobody would have test results. So they’re just trying to find a happy compromise.

From my perspective, and I hope others, from the a day or two before testing until departure, my family will strictly limit doing anything that risks exposure (save for the airport, which obviously can’t be avoided). This will help reduce risk of false negative. I also don’t trust self-tests. I want a professional to obtain the sample. We don’t want to bring infection to Hawaii, and we don’t want to spend our vacation in quarantine or in a hospital in Hawaii!

After reading what you stated here with your educated and experienced background I have been unable to respond or make any reasonable comment for awhile. I noticed no one else did either in over a day. I am sure people with different perspectives will react differently to your post. Since we are over 70 and my husband has high blood pressure and respiratory problems your post confirms our decision that we shouldn't be travelling and going to Hawaii this year. At this time we are setting our closest goal on September 2021. Furthermore, your post gives me an insight into why the Hawaiian Residents don't want to give exemptions to the 14 day quarantine for those that get negative tests before they come. Younger and healtier people with greater risk tolerance certainly will think differently.

 

[csodjd]

After reading what you stated here with your educated and experienced background I have been unable to respond or make any reasonable comment for awhile. I noticed no one else did either in over a day. I am sure people with different perspectives will react differently to your post. Since we are over 70 and my husband has high blood pressure and respiratory problems your post confirms our decision that we shouldn't be travelling and going to Hawaii this year. At this time we are setting our closest goal on September 2021. Furthermore, your post gives me an insight into why the Hawaiian Residents don't want to give exemptions to the 14 day quarantine for those that get negative tests before they come. Younger and healtier people with greater risk tolerance certainly will think differently.

I do think the greatest risk lies in the flight over. Once in Hawaii you can exercise a lot of control over your exposure by staying away from people, staying outdoors, etc. But on the airplane, well, there's only so much you can do. I'm paying for First, because it seems safer. (Though I note an article by The Points Guy the other day where he declined a free upgrade and instead asked to sit in the back of the plane because he saw there were no seats sold in the last 10 rows.) I also think it pays to eat before boarding and limit time outside the mask to just having something to drink (and can bring straws along so you can remain masked then too). And it probably also pays to obtain a good filtered mask for the flight, one that will both block your excretion but also reduce your risk of inhaling virus.

That all said, the math is still favorable. Assuming about 15% of those tested are positive, and assuming testing catches 95%, chances are that there will be zero to two people max on any given plane that are infected. And chances are very much in your favor that you won't be sitting within a couple feet of them, which would be necessary if THEY are wearing a mask. And if you are both wearing a mask, even sitting next to an infected person may not be enough to infect you. If you're in economy, and there are three seats, and just two of you in those three, infection risk is near zero, if the rules are followed.

 

[lynne]

Quarantine chronicles a success story

Quarantine Chronicles: A success story

www.kitv.com

 

[Tamaradarann]

I do think the greatest risk lies in the flight over. Once in Hawaii you can exercise a lot of control over your exposure by staying away from people, staying outdoors, etc. But on the airplane, well, there's only so much you can do. I'm paying for First, because it seems safer. (Though I note an article by The Points Guy the other day where he declined a free upgrade and instead asked to sit in the back of the plane because he saw there were no seats sold in the last 10 rows.) I also think it pays to eat before boarding and limit time outside the mask to just having something to drink (and can bring straws along so you can remain masked then too). And it probably also pays to obtain a good filtered mask for the flight, one that will both block your excretion but also reduce your risk of inhaling virus.

That all said, the math is still favorable. Assuming about 15% of those tested are positive, and assuming testing catches 95%, chances are that there will be zero to two people max on any given plane that are infected. And chances are very much in your favor that you won't be sitting within a couple feet of them, which would be necessary if THEY are wearing a mask. And if you are both wearing a mask, even sitting next to an infected person may not be enough to infect you. If you're in economy, and there are three seats, and just two of you in those three, infection risk is near zero, if the rules are followed.

Your post does help reduce some of the fears that we have, however, the effects of this pandemic would make OUR stay there so different from what we are accustomed to and love that for us it is NOT worth the effort or risk. We are retired we stay in Honolulu because of a number of reasons that have changed due to the virus and we have no idea when they will come back:

- We make a lifestyle change when we go, we don't just go for a short vacation. We stock up the room with groceries and usually go in late December early January and stay until sometime in April or May. We have no idea what changes will go on with the virus and travel during a long stay
- We don't get a car and can either walk or take a bus to whatever we want to do. We won't feel comfortable going on a bus.
- While we love walking outdoors in the nice weather we go to Honolulu to enjoy many indoor and crowded activities; theatre, symphonies, music concerts and shows, indoor restaurants, street festivals, beer festivals, microbrew pubs, shopping

Younger and healtier people who work and can only stay a short time with greater risk tolerance certainly will and certainly should think differently.






-

 

[jjking42]

My daughter caught Covid while living at college. She quarantined and had to test negative twice before she returned to work.

Once Hawaii lifts quarantine do you think they will discriminate against former Covid patients.

She is 20 and healthy and all though she may not be immune she certainly has some antibodies.

Two of my cousins in their 50s got Covid also both recovered fine. My cousins spouse did not catch it even though they lived in the same house and he helped take care of her. So while it is contagious with precautions you can avoid it.

I want to go to Hawaii in December with my daughter and in April with my cousin. I assume that with a negative test they would be allowed in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[csodjd]

Your post does help reduce some of the fears that we have, however, the effects of this pandemic would make OUR stay there so different from what we are accustomed to and love that for us it is NOT worth the effort or risk. We are retired we stay in Honolulu because of a number of reasons that have changed due to the virus and we have no idea when they will come back:

- We make a lifestyle change when we go, we don't just go for a short vacation. We stock up the room with groceries and usually go in late December early January and stay until sometime in April or May. We have no idea what changes will go on with the virus and travel during a long stay
- We don't get a car and can either walk or take a bus to whatever we want to do. We won't feel comfortable going on a bus.
- While we love walking outdoors in the nice weather we go to Honolulu to enjoy many indoor and crowded activities; theatre, symphonies, music concerts and shows, indoor restaurants, street festivals, beer festivals, microbrew pubs, shopping

Younger and healtier people who work and can only stay a short time with greater risk tolerance certainly will and certainly should think differently.
-

Lot's of unknowns about "the experience" that those of us on the Mainland love about going to Hawaii.. We're actually considering right now buying one of the leasehold units where you own with much the same thought, going for 4-6 months (we'd buy a small car though because I play golf). We're scheduled for two weeks late Oct/Nov in Maui and Oahu (we'll see) and we're wondering about just what you describe... how different will it be, will the things we enjoy doing not be available, etc. But what we really love doing the most is early morning coffee on the Lanai watching the sun rise, and doing the same in the evening. During the day my wife hangs at the beach. Don't need a lot of infrastructure for that.

 

[Tamaradarann]

Lot's of unknowns about "the experience" that those of us on the Mainland love about going to Hawaii.. We're actually considering right now buying one of the leasehold units where you own with much the same thought, going for 4-6 months (we'd buy a small car though because I play golf). We're scheduled for two weeks late Oct/Nov in Maui and Oahu (we'll see) and we're wondering about just what you describe... how different will it be, will the things we enjoy doing not be available, etc. But what we really love doing the most is early morning coffee on the Lanai watching the sun rise, and doing the same in the evening. During the day my wife hangs at the beach. Don't need a lot of infrastructure for that.

We enjoy sitting on a Lanai for Coffee, Drinks, Cut Up Vegtables, and all meals. We like to walk along the beach but not hang out. During the mid day from 11-4 it is too hot for us to be on the beach. We usually walk along the beach in the morning or late afternoon early evening.

We also like to walk down Kalakaua at night. The street performers, people watching, shops, and hotels make it free entertainment. There are/were free shows in the Royal Hawaiian Shopping area, International Market and a piano player at the Moana Surfrider nightly. Free Hula Shows along the Beach a few times a week. I am sure that is not going to be the same now.

We usually have so many events that we'd like to attend at theatres, symphonies, music concerts and shows, street festivals, beer festivals, that some nights we have to choose which one to go to out of 2 or 3. That is not how it is now.

 

[Tamaradarann]

Lot's of unknowns about "the experience" that those of us on the Mainland love about going to Hawaii.. We're actually considering right now buying one of the leasehold units where you own with much the same thought, going for 4-6 months (we'd buy a small car though because I play golf). We're scheduled for two weeks late Oct/Nov in Maui and Oahu (we'll see) and we're wondering about just what you describe... how different will it be, will the things we enjoy doing not be available, etc. But what we really love doing the most is early morning coffee on the Lanai watching the sun rise, and doing the same in the evening. During the day my wife hangs at the beach. Don't need a lot of infrastructure for that.

By the way do to Coronavirus concerns for the first time we have discussed the possibity of getting a car when we do decide to go back since we don't want to go on the bus or take Ubers. Our Condo does come with a parking spot.

 

[lynne]

Hawaii Island Major Kim expressed doubt that Hawaii can open without the 14 day quarantine September 1

One of the main issues is being able to differentiate between people who have had negative test results to bypass quarantine and people who are subject to quarantine.

State won’t be ready to reopen Sept. 1, Kim says - West Hawaii Today

The state isn’t ready to reopen to tourists Sept. 1 and it’s not ready to bring out-of-state college students back to campus Aug. 24, Mayor Harry Kim said in an hour-long interview Thursday.

www.westhawaiitoday.com

 

[csodjd]

Hawaii Island Major Kim expressed doubt that Hawaii can open without the 14 day quarantine September 1

One of the main issues is being able to differentiate between people who have had negative test results to bypass quarantine and people who are subject to quarantine.

State won’t be ready to reopen Sept. 1, Kim says - West Hawaii Today

The state isn’t ready to reopen to tourists Sept. 1 and it’s not ready to bring out-of-state college students back to campus Aug. 24, Mayor Harry Kim said in an hour-long interview Thursday.

www.westhawaiitoday.com

It seems from the most recent order that the state is looking to put the burden/onus on the "host" rather than the visitor to identify and monitor those that are subject to quarantine. But the thing about Hawaii, unlike almost anywhere else in the US, is that they can almost guarantee nobody comes that IS subject to quarantine and can easily get info/name/address of anyone that must be quarantined. As long as it is made relatively easy/reliable to obtain a test result in ~2 days, they should be able to manage that "problem."

 

[csodjd]

We enjoy sitting on a Lanai for Coffee, Drinks, Cut Up Vegtables, and all meals. We like to walk along the beach but not hang out. During the mid day from 11-4 it is too hot for us to be on the beach. We usually walk along the beach in the morning or late afternoon early evening.

We also like to walk down Kalakaua at night. The street performers, people watching, shops, and hotels make it free entertainment. There are/were free shows in the Royal Hawaiian Shopping area, International Market and a piano player at the Moana Surfrider nightly. Free Hula Shows along the Beach a few times a week. I am sure that is not going to be the same now.

We usually have so many events that we'd like to attend at theatres, symphonies, music concerts and shows, street festivals, beer festivals, that some nights we have to choose which one to go to out of 2 or 3. That is not how it is now.

It'll come back. Maybe slowly. But especially in Oahu, which is a destination for people around the world, it'll come back.

 

[1Kflyerguy]

By the way do to Coronavirus concerns for the first time we have discussed the possibity of getting a car when we do decide to go back since we don't want to go on the bus or take Ubers. Our Condo does come with a parking spot.

I understand that sentiment, we are traveling the San Diego in a few weeks and originally planned on just using Uber for everything. But i changed and rented a car as i didn't want to be getting in and out of multiple cars per day...

 

[csodjd]

I understand that sentiment, we are traveling the San Diego in a few weeks and originally planned on just using Uber for everything. But i changed and rented a car as i didn't want to be getting in and out of multiple cars per day...

The evidence of infection by way of surface transfer is scant. It seems that a reasonable wipe down of the touch points like steering wheel, keys, door handles, ignition, etc., at the first opportunity, would adequately ensure protection from the car as a source of contagion. Has to be safer than an Uber, much less multiple Ubers.

 

[Tamaradarann]

I understand that sentiment, we are traveling the San Diego in a few weeks and originally planned on just using Uber for everything. But i changed and rented a car as i didn't want to be getting in and out of multiple cars per day...

San Diego like NYC, Honolulu, and Las Vegas are our favorite vacation spots to go without renting a car and walking or using public transportation. We rarely use Uber in any the places above except if it starts to rain. In San Diego we stayed in the Gas Lamp District for a week and didn't need a car. Now with the Coronavirus it would be different. We are happy being safe at home with our cars being right outside the door of our private house.

 

[easyrider]

Hawaii will not be ready to re-open on Sept 1. Kind of a bummer. I'm glad I canceled our trip.

Bill

Hawaii County mayor: State will not be ready to reopen by Sept. 1

“The mission is to protect the people of the state of Hawaii. The system is not ready,” Kim said.

www.hawaiinewsnow.com

 

[CPNY]

Hawaii will not be ready to re-open on Sept 1. Kind of a bummer. I'm glad I canceled our trip.

Bill

Hawaii County mayor: State will not be ready to reopen by Sept. 1

“The mission is to protect the people of the state of Hawaii. The system is not ready,” Kim said.

www.hawaiinewsnow.com

Very sad, this may have been my year to go to Hawaii

 

[csodjd]

Hawaii will not be ready to re-open on Sept 1. Kind of a bummer. I'm glad I canceled our trip.

Bill

Hawaii County mayor: State will not be ready to reopen by Sept. 1

“The mission is to protect the people of the state of Hawaii. The system is not ready,” Kim said.

www.hawaiinewsnow.com

Not so fast. Apparently the Hawaii Mayor is the odd-man-out in a lot of issues. He and the Governor don't see eye to eye quite often. So I'd take his comments with a grain of salt. I remain cautiously optimistic that another month will help. Things happen so fast with COVID.

 

[slip]

Not so fast. Apparently the Hawaii Mayor is the odd-man-out in a lot of issues. He and the Governor don't see eye to eye quite often. So I'd take his comments with a grain of salt. I remain cautiously optimistic that another month will help. Things happen so fast with COVID.

Yes, no change has been announced but I don’t know how out of step Mayor Kim is with the rest of the Mayors. From what I have been hearing he may not be alone on this and I would definitely not be surprised if this gets extended through September.

 

[csodjd]

Yes, no change has been announced but I don’t know how out of step Mayor Kim is with the rest of the Mayors. From what I have been hearing he may not be alone on this and I would definitely not be surprised if this gets extended through September.

Well, it certainly could. But I'll be the hotel managers will really start getting annoyed, if they aren't already. Pretty hard to get ready to open and have the goal posts keep moving. I'd assume that IF Sept. 1 is going to slip to Oct 1, they'll have to announce that in the next week or two.

However, his reason -- because they can't tell who must quarantine from who doesn't have to, is really a pretty weak argument since almost everyone coming over will probably have received a negative test... its not like they have a flood of people coming over to quarantine. And if that's the concern, they won't be able to open until a vaccine is widespread, which is probably a year away.

 

[slip]

Well, it certainly could. But I'll be the hotel managers will really start getting annoyed, if they aren't already. Pretty hard to get ready to open and have the goal posts keep moving. I'd assume that IF Sept. 1 is going to slip to Oct 1, they'll have to announce that in the next week or two.

However, his reason -- because they can't tell who must quarantine from who doesn't have to, is really a pretty weak argument since almost everyone coming over will probably have received a negative test... its not like they have a flood of people coming over to quarantine. And if that's the concern, they won't be able to open until a vaccine is widespread, which is probably a year away.

Another big announcement that could affect the decision is if the federal unemployment benefits are extended and that will be announced soon since they expire at the end of July.

It doesn’t really matter if his argument is weak or strong, he can decide what he wants and that will be the end of it. He can’t run for re-election and he may not care what the hotel managers think if he thinks he is acting in the best interests of the citizens of Hawaii.