Who's Winning America's Electric Vehicle Race?

[DrQ]

Who's Winning America's Electric Vehicle Race?

Tesla is the undisputed champ, but among the traditional Detroit Three automakers there is a consensus as to who's in second place.

www.cnet.com

 

[buzglyd]

China

 

[Passepartout]

Excellent article with dollars and cents comparison of operational costs of essentially the same vehicle with either fully gas drive train vs. electric.

 

[DavidnRobin]

An overview in 2 slides

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Carolinian]

Here's someone who was very unhappy with his Tesla, so unhappy he gave it to a group to blow it up on video. The owner, from Finland paid $95,000 for the Tesla model S, and it ran fine for 930 miles. Then the error codes started showing up and a dealer told him it would cost $23,000 to replace the battery. Instead, he gave it to the group to blow it up.

https://nypost.com/2021/12/24/tesla-explodes-after-mechanics-charge-man-23k-for-new-battery/

 

[DavidnRobin]

Here's someone who was very unhappy with his Tesla, so unhappy he gave it to a group to blow it up on video. The owner, from Finland paid $95,000 for the Tesla model S, and it ran fine for 930 miles. Then the error codes started showing up and a dealer told him it would cost $23,000 to replace the battery. Instead, he gave it to the group to blow it up.

https://nypost.com/2021/12/24/tesla-explodes-after-mechanics-charge-man-23k-for-new-battery/

I don’t own a Tesla and probably never will as our vehicle use is down significantly since retirement - I personally know dozens of people who own one.
Every single one of them loves their Tesla.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[PigsDad]

Here's someone who was very unhappy with his Tesla, so unhappy he gave it to a group to blow it up on video.

Publicity stunt. Seems like they are getting their money's worth from all the "electric vehicles are evil" crowd...

Kurt

 

[Carolinian]

Those giant lithium batteries spontaneously combusting have become a problem with buses in Paris. Two of them have gone up in flames within a month. Here is a video on the most recent one: (It was lucky no one was on the bus when it went up)

 

[emeryjre]

Lithium Battery manufacturing is still relatively new. A small mistake either in the design, the manufacturing process, or quality control is a problem waiting to happen.

I can think of several instances where poor design become a problem for ICE vehicles. Corvairs, Vegas, Pintos, some Ford Explorers with Firestone tires.

People died as a result in these vehicles.

Battery tech will get better.

The biggest problem is still lack of Lithium and the run up in prices for Lithium

 

[Carolinian]

Lithium Battery manufacturing is still relatively new. A small mistake either in the design, the manufacturing process, or quality control is a problem waiting to happen.

I can think of several instances where poor design become a problem for ICE vehicles. Corvairs, Vegas, Pintos, some Ford Explorers with Firestone tires.

People died as a result in these vehicles.

Battery tech will get better.

The biggest problem is still lack of Lithium and the run up in prices for Lithium

If there had been people on that bus, would they have had time to get off? I don't think so.

It is not just lithium batteries in buses. GM recalled every Chevy Bolt it ever made because the lithium batteries were prone to spontaneous combustion, and advised anyone keeping the cars not to park them within 50 feet of a building or another car. When one checks in for a flight, they are asked if they have any lithium batteries, and that is because a jetliner went down some years ago in Florida killing all aboard when smaller lithium batteries being carried as cargo spontaneously combusted in flight. There have also been major fires in the giant lithium batteries used for wind / solar storage in Belgium, Australia, and South Korea when the huge batteries spontaneously combusted.

Most buses run on diesel fuel, which does not catch fire very readily and when it does, it does not burn so rapidly. There are much safer electric buses, namely the trolleybuses of eastern Europe, which have a mast that contacts an overhead power line for electricity, much like a streetcar does. I have rode trolleybuses many times and would again, but NOT one of the lithium battery buses.

It is probably wise that Paris has removed all of those lithium battery buses from service, but one wonders what other cities may be using the same bus. Lithium burns very hot and its fumes are toxic. That combined with the speed that the fire took over the bus could easily make it a death trap if people were aboard. A car is not as bad. Some months ago, a guy was driving a Tesla down the street in Pennsylvania and its battery spontaneously combusted, but he was able to jump out and get away before it was consumed in flames. A bus full of people would not be so lucky.

 

[buzglyd]

A couple of years ago the entire Moto E (racing E motorcycles) garage burned to the ground and all the bikes were destroyed.

Batteries aren’t green and electric cars don’t run on unicorn tears.

 

[Passepartout]

Carolinian, I get your bias against lithium batteries, and acknowledge that there have been instances of them igniting. But I maintain that they pose much less risk than the mi!lions of vehicles and refueling stations and fuel storage containers, pipelines and drilling and distributing systems worldwide that we simply have no choice but to accept as a 'reasonable risk'.

The design, manufacture and eventual recycling of lithium can, and will be addressed as the industry matures. That it didn't precede the invention and implementation of the new technology is not sufficient to curtail advancement and research into making it safer and more productive.

 

[DrQ]

It is not just lithium batteries in buses. GM recalled every Chevy Bolt it ever made because the lithium batteries were prone to spontaneous combustion, and advised anyone keeping the cars not to park them within 50 feet of a building or another car.

And how many Bolt EV's caught on fire?

 

[emeryjre]

I am a realist. EV's are here to stay for now. There are problems to be sure.

Bill Ford (yes that Bill Ford) made some statement last week about Lithium supply and how it may impact the deliveries of the new Ford Lighting.

I would bet the buses in France are no longer in service. Yes, there was the potential for a disaster, but it did not occcur.

I would sure like more of the backstory before I passed judgement based on a youtube video.

They will get the problems worked out.

 

[DrQ]

And how many Bolt EV's caught on fire?

[crickets] The answer is 16 confirmed, 1 suspected out of over a hundred thousand units produced.

 

[emeryjre]

It appears that the buses in Paris were using a battery technology known as LMP.
The busses were manufactured by Bollore' according to news reports.

This is the link to the website that is a promotion for the battery technology the company is using

Electricity storage and systems - Bolloré (bollore.com)

"It has developed a unique technology in the form of Lithuim Metal Polymer (LMP®) batteries, produced by its Blue Solutions subsidiary. Using this technology, the Group has diversified into mobile applications (car-sharing systems and electric cars, buses and trams) and battery-driven stationary applications, as well as systems for managing these applications (IER, Polyconseil).

 

[rboesl]

Lithium based batteries can be safe. Did you know lithium based batteries are used to power pacemakers?

Some 40 years ago I worked for a company that made lithium based batteries for electronic heart pacers. They had very stringent safety precautions in the manufacturing area. In my entire time there they never had an accident or fire.

The same or similar technology is still used today to power pacemakers. I did a search and didn't find one article about a pacemaker battery combusting. I did find some about issues during cremation, go figure, but none about fire or small explosions.

There have been cases where lithium battery powered items like hover boards have burned. But in every case that I've read about the issue hasn't been the chemicals. It's been about the containment of the chemicals that's failed.

 

[Carolinian]

Lithium based batteries can be safe. Did you know lithium based batteries are used to power pacemakers?

Some 40 years ago I worked for a company that made lithium based batteries for electronic heart pacers. They had very stringent safety precautions in the manufacturing area. In my entire time there they never had an accident or fire.

The same or similar technology is still used today to power pacemakers. I did a search and didn't find one article about a pacemaker battery combusting. I did find some about issues during cremation, go figure, but none about fire or small explosions.

There have been cases where lithium battery powered items like hover boards have burned. But in every case that I've read about the issue hasn't been the chemicals. It's been about the containment of the chemicals that's failed.

Small lithium batteries carried as cargo on a passenger jet spontaneously combusted in flight over the Everglades some years ago, crashing the plane and killing all aboard. That is why at check-in at the airport, you are asked if you have any lithium batteries.

The speed with which the fire tore through that Paris bus would have made it a death trap if people were aboard. I don't think I want to ride on one of those buses.

 

[emeryjre]

Small lithium batteries carried as cargo on a passenger jet spontaneously combusted in flight over the Everglades some years ago, crashing the plane and killing all aboard. That is why at check-in at the airport, you are asked if you have any lithium batteries.

The speed with which the fire tore through that Paris bus would have made it a death trap if people were aboard. I don't think I want to ride on one of those buses.

The buses in Paris have a serious problem. After reading about the fires, there is a serious problem in the design somewhere. I would not judge all lithium products based on these items. But I do agree, I would not ride in those buses.

 

[MrockStar]

Those giant lithium batteries spontaneously combusting have become a problem with buses in Paris. Two of them have gone up in flames within a month. Here is a video on the most recent one: (It was lucky no one was on the bus when it went up)

Ouch, i think i will ride my bike.

 

[emeryjre]

Any product using components that have the potential for dangerous explosions require care and good design.

How do you react when you see somebody filling their car with gas and having a lit cigarette dangling from their mouth?

 

[MrockStar]

Any product using components that have the potential for dangerous explosions require care and good design.

How do you react when you see somebody filling their car with gas and having a lit cigarette dangling from their mouth?

I fill up at another gas station down the road.

 

[MrockStar]

Carbeque??

 

[DrQ]

It is not just lithium batteries in buses. GM recalled every Chevy Bolt it ever made because the lithium batteries were prone to spontaneous combustion, and advised anyone keeping the cars not to park them within 50 feet of a building or another car. .

Ford recalls 39,000 U.S. SUVs after engine fire reports

Ford recalls 39,000 U.S. SUVs after engine fire reports

Ford Motor Company said Thursday it was recalling 39,000 SUVs after reports of 16 fires, and has advised owners to park their vehicles outdoors and away from structures until a fix is completed.

www.reuters.com

WASHINGTON, May 19 (Reuters) - Ford Motor Company said Thursday it was recalling 39,000 SUVs after reports of 16 fires, and has advised owners to park their vehicles outdoors and away from structures until a fix is completed.​

​

The recall, which covers some 2021 model year Ford Expedition and Lincoln Navigator vehicles, was prompted as an engine compartment fire could occur while the car is parked or being driven, even with the ignition off, the No. 2 U.S. automaker said.​

 

[emeryjre]

Ford recalls 39,000 U.S. SUVs after engine fire reports

Ford recalls 39,000 U.S. SUVs after engine fire reports

Ford Motor Company said Thursday it was recalling 39,000 SUVs after reports of 16 fires, and has advised owners to park their vehicles outdoors and away from structures until a fix is completed.

www.reuters.com

WASHINGTON, May 19 (Reuters) - Ford Motor Company said Thursday it was recalling 39,000 SUVs after reports of 16 fires, and has advised owners to park their vehicles outdoors and away from structures until a fix is completed.​

​

The recall, which covers some 2021 model year Ford Expedition and Lincoln Navigator vehicles, was prompted as an engine compartment fire could occur while the car is parked or being driven, even with the ignition off, the No. 2 U.S. automaker said.​

How many years has Ford had to get it right when it comes to Gasoline as a combustible!!