I Have No Sympathy (Outrageous Texas Electric Bills)

[vikingsholm]

Magic of the market ... Yeah, sure.

It works in many cases, in the right conditions. For certain vital daily services, not so much.

The problem comes IMO when it becomes a mindless mantra for the universal solution to all issues economic.

 

[Brett]

Surprise, surprise.

The Enron crowd came out and made a complete mess of a well enough functioning system in California with their deregulation sparkle ponies 20 years ago. As the problem was growing but before it completely blew up, I started monitoring the state's ISO website which showed all daily statewide power supply and demand graphs and power plants taken down for maintenance, etc. It was obvious to me that during a non-energy intensive portion of the late fall and winter that they were taking down an excessive number of plants so they could sell power at a ridiculous marginal cost by taking down just enough plants at their discretion to cause shortages. Months later, investigators confirmed that this was part of what they were doing. Crooks. While the Texas situation is different, it seems to involve some players and government officials with the same attitudes. I simply do not trust these swindlers.

It took us a long time to recover from that fiasco, and has done long term damage to energy provision here from which we're still recovering. Deferred maintenance that has added to our recent fire issues was partly a result of recovering from this, plus greedy energy company execs here looking for high pay and shareholder dividends instead of necessary maintenance, and compliant PUC boards who seem to have bent over backwards for them since then. Boring, reliable, and cost-plus under regulated monopolies is my preference for energy, while eventually working towards a future of more distributed renewables tying into the grids. Currently, some of the older generating plants here are being converted into massive battery storage units and are using the existing and modified distribution infrastructure at the plants, repurposed to accommodate more distributed and renewable sources coming from wind and solar farms and also more rooftop solar. It's still an experiment in progress while we continue with more traditional sources and determine how to best transition over time. We're planning on adding solar panels with our next roof replacement.

Maybe it's good that Texas is the "experiment in progress" state
This year the Virginia legislature will vote on a bill allowing retail utility customers to purchase electricity from a "provider of their choice".
.
I'm going to carefully think about choosing my electricity provider

 

[bogey21]

I'm going to carefully think about choosing my electricity provider

My experience with the Texas Marketplace is that it works well if individuals are savvy enough and take enough time to pick their provider and plan. Unfortunately many are not and make choices that can work to their detriment. The biggest flaw I found in Texas' System is permitting Providers to write into their contracts that Customers will automatically be switched into high cost Variable Rate Plans when their Fixed Rate Plan matures. Many people who have their monthly payments debited to their checking or credit card accounts don't notice the increase in their cost and end up paying a lot more than they need to...

George

 

[RunCat]

I'm was wondering why I have never been tempted by these offers before. So I looked it up and discovered that CO does not allow choice for electricity. It does allow choice for natural gas; but there aren't any companies competing.

 

[TheHolleys87]

My husband has been talking about getting a whole house generator, in case we have a power outage like the one in Texas. Do any of you have one? We are in central Florida and he doesn’t want a large propane tank, thinking of natural gas line. Not interested in a portable generator.
Thanks for any info or suggestions.

We installed a Generac 22kW last spring because we're subject to hurricanes here. I felt a little guilty when we didn't get any last year while Louisiana and others were so badly and repeatedly hit, but last week we were so glad we had it. It's tied in to our natural gas line and our electric panel. Early Wednesday morning we woke up to the sights and sounds of power going off in our house - and a moment later we heard the generator rev up, and everything came back on and stayed on. Friday afternoon we heard the generator go off (I will say it's a noisy beast), and everything stayed on; the lights didn't even flicker. So we were very thankful to have the generator. Not only did we not have to worry about food spoiling in the fridge and freezer, the thermostat worked so we had heat, and we had TV and internet throughout.

We bought ours through Home Depot but obviously there are other vendors. Everything was managed by the installers, including running the necessary gas and electrical lines so the generator could be positioned away from windows and doors, as required by safety regulations. We pay monthly for a maintenance contract, and our unit is Wi-Fi connected so we can check its status via a smartphone app, it automatically runs a self-test every week, and DH gets emails from the company letting him know there were no issues with it.

DM me for more information.

 

[geekette]

I have great sympathy for those who don't understand what they are getting into. Not everyone is intelligent enough to understand the tradeoffs. Plus, aren't there A Lot Of Choices? That's overwhelming, especially if you don't understand. I have sympathy for those that had no idea they could ever get socked like this. I will never board the train of "well, if they weren't smart enough, too bad for them!" I'm lucky to have been born smart, it may not have gone that way. I have less sympathy for those that fully understood the risks.

I'm glad that I have never had choice of elec providers. easy, no big surprises.

 

[geekette]

I think it is safe to say that many of the 45% that isn’t in the stock market are poor, living near or below the poverty line.

I do not at all think that is safe to say. That's a massive leap that just doesn't logically follow.

 

[geekette]

Another reason I do not let companies debit my bank account.

PSA: anyone with payroll direct deposit is subject to a mistaken take-it-back-out. I'd known this for a while, but our whole organization got schooled in that when an HR guy reversed payroll. Of course, people had checks bouncing, which triggers fees. This mistake cost our company a lot of money in covering for its employees that were hammered through no fault of their own.

I also hate to mention it, but, SS is deposited in advance. When someone dies mid-month, that deposit might also be reversed. Happened decades ago to a friend of mine when her husband suddenly died.

So, it's not just the debits, the credits can be tricky, too.

 

[geekette]

If an average person could not understand all this why would the State of Texas set up the system?

Profits for businesses. It was never about the citizens. "Choice" is simply veneer.

 

[geekette]

Someone, somewhere is at the other end making bank on these people

Yes. That is the disgusting part of this. So much suffering and death, yet, "hit the jackpot", etc. I am a People over Profits type of person. I don't think I could be happy with big money knowing it came on the backs of so many people left in the cold and dark.

 

[PigsDad]

Yes. That is the disgusting part of this. So much suffering and death, yet, "hit the jackpot", etc. I am a People over Profits type of person. I don't think I could be happy with big money knowing it came on the backs of so many people left in the cold and dark.

Since I know you are into dividend investing, you might want to check what utility stocks you own. I think some utility companies "hit the jackpot" when the electricity they were generating was sold at 1000X the normal rate. Just sayin'.

Kurt

 

[Talent312]

I also hate to mention it, but, SS is deposited in advance. When someone dies mid-month, that deposit might also be reversed. Happened decades ago to a friend of mine when her husband suddenly died.

Actually, SS paid in arrears. February benefits are paid in March.
But SS is not paid for the month of death and must be returned.
Normally, the funeral home reports the person's death to SSA.
But sometimes, it's overlooked or not fast enuff to stop payment.

-- Source: Social Security (www.ssa.gov)

 

[am1]

I do not at all think that is safe to say. That's a massive leap that just doesn't logically follow.

Hopefully anyone living near or below the poverty line are using what money they have to survive unless they choose to be thrifty and invest some. If so more power to them.

 

[Brett]

PSA: anyone with payroll direct deposit is subject to a mistaken take-it-back-out. I'd known this for a while, but our whole organization got schooled in that when an HR guy reversed payroll. Of course, people had checks bouncing, which triggers fees. This mistake cost our company a lot of money in covering for its employees that were hammered through no fault of their own.

I also hate to mention it, but, SS is deposited in advance. When someone dies mid-month, that deposit might also be reversed. Happened decades ago to a friend of mine when her husband suddenly died.

So, it's not just the debits, the credits can be tricky, too.

I agree with Talent, I think SS is a month behind

https://www.aarp.org/retirement/soc...nswers/returning-social-security-payment.html

 

[Rolltydr]

I do not at all think that is safe to say. That's a massive leap that just doesn't logically follow.

Why is it a massive leap to assume that many people who have trouble paying bills and feeding their families don’t have the disposable income to play in the stock market?

 

[geekette]

Actually, SS paid in arrears. February benefits are paid in March.
But SS is not paid for the month of death and must be returned.
Normally, the funeral home reports the person's death to SSA.
But sometimes, it's overlooked or not fast enuff to stop payment.

-- Source: Social Security (www.ssa.gov)

Did this change? The issue was in the 80s.

 

[geekette]

Why is it a massive leap to assume that many people who have trouble paying bills and feeding their families don’t have the disposable income to play in the stock market?

No, I don't think it is reasonable to assume that most everyone not in the stock market is near poverty. You are twisting things here.

 

[geekette]

Since I know you are into dividend investing, you might want to check what utility stocks you own. I think some utility companies "hit the jackpot" when the electricity they were generating was sold at 1000X the normal rate. Just sayin'.

Kurt

I kinda doubt I have much in the way of small TX providers, mine are generally old and big. Worth a look into subsidiaries, thank you.

 

[Talent312]

Did this change? The issue was in the 80s.

IDK, but heck, a lot has changed in the last 40 years....

 

[Rolltydr]

No, I don't think it is reasonable to assume that most everyone not in the stock market is near poverty. You are twisting things here.

That's not at all what I said. I said many, not most, of the 45% that aren't in the stock market are near or below the poverty line. The US Census Bureau's latest stats show that 10.5% of households in the U.S. live at or below poverty level. There are ~123,000,000 households in the U.S. so that would mean ~11.7 million households at or below poverty level. IMHO, that equates to many. And, I don’t believe it is unreasonable at all to assume those people aren’t playing in the stock market.

 

[Brett]

Since I know you are into dividend investing, you might want to check what utility stocks you own. I think some utility companies "hit the jackpot" when the electricity they were generating was sold at 1000X the normal rate. Just sayin'.

Kurt

Texas utility companies had a huge payday from the freeze
Windfall profits are likely to total billions of dollars

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/02/27/texas-power-winners-losers/

"An Australia-based company, Macquarie Group, which moves gas across pipelines in the United States, announced last week its profit for 2021 was likely to be up by 5 to 10 percent over 2020 because of the freeze in Texas."

 

[Talent312]

Texas utility companies had a huge payday from the freeze:
Windfall profits are likely to total billions of dollars

I thought the windfalls were all frozen. ... Wha? ... Nevermind.
.

 

[vikingsholm]

More cascading impacts.

Texas power cooperative files for bankruptcy, citing $1.8 billion grid debt

The largest and oldest electric power cooperative in Texas filed for bankruptcy protection in Houston on Monday, citing a disputed $1.8 billion debt to the state's grid operator. Brazos Electric Power Cooperative Inc, which supplies electricity to more than 660,000 consumers across the state...

www.yahoo.com

The state's grid operator, Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT), on Friday said $2.1 billion in initial bills went unpaid, underscoring the financial stress on utilities and power marketers. More providers likely will reject the bills in coming days, executives said.

"The municipal power sector is in a real crisis," said Maulin Patani, a founder of Volt Electricity Provider LP, an independent power marketer that is not a member of the Brazos coop. ERCOT should suspend the service charges to halt further defaults, he said in an interview on Sunday.

 

[am1]

Texas utility companies had a huge payday from the freeze
Windfall profits are likely to total billions of dollars

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/02/27/texas-power-winners-losers/

"An Australia-based company, Macquarie Group, which moves gas across pipelines in the United States, announced last week its profit for 2021 was likely to be up by 5 to 10 percent over 2020 because of the freeze in Texas."

Is it possible that windfall/potential windfall is what got providers to do what it takes to produce energy under any circumstances?

 

[CalGalTraveler]

My husband has been talking about getting a whole house generator, in case we have a power outage like the one in Texas. Do any of you have one? We are in central Florida and he doesn’t want a large propane tank, thinking of natural gas line. Not interested in a portable generator.
Thanks for any info or suggestions.

Since you live in sunny Florida, have you considered solar with a powerwall?