California shut down again

[turkel]

@pedro47 I can relate. I am not on a Covid floor but Covid 24/7 is too much sometimes. I have actually started visiting TUG less and less because I cant handle all the nasty Covid threads yet when I do check in I can’t keep myself from looking at them.

A personal flaw on my part I am sure but avoidance is an excellent coping strategy so I understand her not wanting to talk about it outside of work.

 

[DannyTS]

deleted, I realized I posted in the wrong thread.

 

[Brett]

I guess this is good news, Yesterday and the day before the number of deaths in Florida went back to the average of the previous weeks.

But yesterday was still a bad day (for Florida)

https://www.tampabay.com/news/healt...4-coronavirus-infections-on-monday-35-deaths/

 

[SteelerGal]

SoCal as well. I live in a city where masks are mandatory like SD. It’s now 2nd Nature. However we are sandwiched btwn to cities that have outbreaks. Both areas have a significant # of restaurants/bars that have been opened. And the Beaches. We actually were at MarBrisa 3wks ago and ppl wore masks. Beaches were crowded but we never went. Just came back from Palm Desert and masks were required except for in the pool. Adults and families were staying in pods as much as possible. However the hotspots which include LA, Long Beach, Santa Ana, and Riverside County, are hotspots for various reasons. High populations, homeless, soci economics, lowly paid essential workers, etc. Hopefully closing back down statewide will lower the #s so Counties can will be able to be their own decision makers.

 

[Chrisky]

” One honest question, Danny--why does the state of the virus in the US, and what we choose to do or not to do policy-wise, cause you such fascination, since the borders have long since closed, and what happens here will have very little effect on you, one way or the other, in Canada?“

I can perhaps answer some of that. Yes, our borders have remained closed to non-essential travel, but we are still getting travellers coming in, lying about where they are going. These travellers, at least some of them, have been identified and fined. There is a case in one of our Atlantic provinces, where the person came in on a student visa and infected some people.
What the US chooses to do or not do affects Canada quite a bit, so we are extremely concerned with what happens in the US. There are Canadian citizens who travel to the US quite a bit, and are not happy with the borders being closed. Unfortunately, because of our association with the US regarding not only visiting back and forth, but our trade agreements, we are very interested with how the US controls this epidemic.
And, so far, IMHO, regardless of what stats people choose to believe, the US is having a tough time of it.

 

[Shankilicious]

So the problem I'm seeing with mostly looking at the numbers is three fold:
1- the positive cases are sky-rocketing because you can do a drive through test and have the results in 2 business days. They schedule these tests only ten minutes apart so from 8-4, that's 48 tests per drive through lane per day. In my county of 263,000 people there are 5 drive up/through testing sites so 240 tests a day plus all the testing being done at the 5 major hospitals and I don't know how many care clinics/express care centers but we have 2 in my town of 11k alone. More tests=more positive cases. However 85% of cases have no symptoms or are asymptomatic and .
2- the death toll numbers are insanely skewed and this is due to several factors that I have first had, personal experience with and knowledge from myself and family and co-workers. Death certificates signed by the county coroner as cause of death being heart attacks and other "natural causes" have been changed to Covid-19. Two close friends grandparents died of cancer and while in the hospital, the family was offered a lump sum to state the death was Covid related. It's a fact that the hospitals get paid up to 3xs as much for listing a death as being Covid related instead of any other cause and once money gets directly involved with the numbers, you can't trust the numbers anymore.
3- Politics are involved. And worse than money is politics, and politics are fueled by ungodly amounts of money and powerful corporations.
I'm not saying that this isn't dangerous but I am saying that it's not as dangerous as the politicians want us to believe. I spoke with a man and his wife within normal conversation distance 4-6ft, no masks, outside of their home last Sunday for about 15 minutes. When I left I shook their hands, then got in my car and left. Tuesday I learn that they both had gotten positive test results on Tuesday (my department gets the addresses of every positive test result in the town, daily). So I got put on 14 day quarantine and was asked to get tested. 6 days after "positive contact" I got tested and yesterday I got my results back, negative. So if I can shake hands and conversate for with two covid carriers, why am I and my family not infected? The way the media portrays it, from that one contact, myself, my three household members, my two in-laws, and a friend should all have it because I saw and hugged the three from outside my family on Monday or Tuesday after the positive contact.
Just my personal story and food for thought.

 

[Chrisky]

Oh come on. So you got tested and it was negative. So you are very lucky. Have you read any of the stories in some states, where people purposely attended covid parties to see who would get it. Some people did, and within 2 days they were dead!!!!
That is the whole problem with this virus, no one can predict who will get it, what will be the severity, and if they will survive or not. If you survive it, you could have damaged lungs, heart and a whole lot of other issues that may or may not clear up.
The reason for doing a lot of testing, I agree, may indicate the stats in your state as going up, but testing is a very good thing. It is done to see the areas where this virus is exploding, and the hospitals can prepare.
But regardless, in the states where it is exploding, no matter how many tests are done or not done, the hospitals are at capacity, and cannot handle any more cases. So, there is where the problem occurs, and I would not want to be a primary care worker in those states. I feel sorry for them, if and when this is all over, they will all need help to get over their trauma.

 

[VegasBella]

I'm visiting Carlsbad Inn right now. It's our normal timeshare week and since it was still allowed we figured we would just do it. We brought all our food from home so we wouldn't have to shop. We drove so we wouldn't risk catching it on flights - we would have canceled if this trip required flying. Yet another piece of excellent advice from TUG: make your home resort a timeshare you can drive to. We routinely wear masks at home in Vegas so we're doing that here. Our plan was no indoor public spaces - just our room and outdoors. The pool is closed and now the fitness room is closed too. Not a big deal. The beach is open. WE SAW DOLPHINS YESTERDAY FROM THE BEACH! Our room is nice and the experts say hotel rooms are low risk. So we are just enjoying a very low key casual vacation. I'm sad that the major California counties have to go into a sort of lockdown again, but honestly it's not a huge impact if you already take the 'rona seriously.

 

[bluehende]

So the problem I'm seeing with mostly looking at the numbers is three fold:
1- the positive cases are sky-rocketing because you can do a drive through test and have the results in 2 business days. They schedule these tests only ten minutes apart so from 8-4, that's 48 tests per drive through lane per day. In my county of 263,000 people there are 5 drive up/through testing sites so 240 tests a day plus all the testing being done at the 5 major hospitals and I don't know how many care clinics/express care centers but we have 2 in my town of 11k alone. More tests=more positive cases. However 85% of cases have no symptoms or are asymptomatic and .
2- the death toll numbers are insanely skewed and this is due to several factors that I have first had, personal experience with and knowledge from myself and family and co-workers. Death certificates signed by the county coroner as cause of death being heart attacks and other "natural causes" have been changed to Covid-19. Two close friends grandparents died of cancer and while in the hospital, the family was offered a lump sum to state the death was Covid related. It's a fact that the hospitals get paid up to 3xs as much for listing a death as being Covid related instead of any other cause and once money gets directly involved with the numbers, you can't trust the numbers anymore.
3- Politics are involved. And worse than money is politics, and politics are fueled by ungodly amounts of money and powerful corporations.
I'm not saying that this isn't dangerous but I am saying that it's not as dangerous as the politicians want us to believe. I spoke with a man and his wife within normal conversation distance 4-6ft, no masks, outside of their home last Sunday for about 15 minutes. When I left I shook their hands, then got in my car and left. Tuesday I learn that they both had gotten positive test results on Tuesday (my department gets the addresses of every positive test result in the town, daily). So I got put on 14 day quarantine and was asked to get tested. 6 days after "positive contact" I got tested and yesterday I got my results back, negative. So if I can shake hands and conversate for with two covid carriers, why am I and my family not infected? The way the media portrays it, from that one contact, myself, my three household members, my two in-laws, and a friend should all have it because I saw and hugged the three from outside my family on Monday or Tuesday after the positive contact.
Just my personal story and food for thought.

You will need a little more evidence than second hand stories for me to believe there is a vast conspiracy from medical professionals and state medical examiners to make this pandemic look worse. This conspiracy would have to be world wide. The stories you are relating are illegal and if they happened should be reported. I searched for any evidence to verify your fact that hospitals are getting 3x the money and found none. With the prevalence of these cases why would hospitals be struggling so much. Please do not denigrate the people on the front lines of protecting us without real evidence.

 

[pedro47]

I missed our yearly trip to San Diego; missing Mission Bay.

 

[Shankilicious]

Oh come on. So you got tested and it was negative. So you are very lucky. Have you read any of the stories in some states, where people purposely attended covid parties to see who would get it. Some people did, and within 2 days they were dead!!!!
That is the whole problem with this virus, no one can predict who will get it, what will be the severity, and if they will survive or not. If you survive it, you could have damaged lungs, heart and a whole lot of other issues that may or may not clear up.
The reason for doing a lot of testing, I agree, may indicate the stats in your state as going up, but testing is a very good thing. It is done to see the areas where this virus is exploding, and the hospitals can prepare.
But regardless, in the states where it is exploding, no matter how many tests are done or not done, the hospitals are at capacity, and cannot handle any more cases. So, there is where the problem occurs, and I would not want to be a primary care worker in those states. I feel sorry for them, if and when this is all over, they will all need help to get over their trauma.

There's a really good chance that at those "Covid parties" those that died already had it and pre-existing conditions to put them at higher risk they didn't know of. There are stories on both sides. I'm just giving mine. Has anyone run the stats on if we keep increasing at this rate, how long before the whole world gets infected?

 

[bluehende]

There's a really good chance that at those "Covid parties" those that died already had it and pre-existing conditions to put them at higher risk they didn't know of. There are stories on both sides. I'm just giving mine. Has anyone run the stats on if we keep increasing at this rate, how long before the whole world gets infected?

Never as a large part of this world is not increasing.

 

[Shankilicious]

You will need a little more evidence than second hand stories for me to believe there is a vast conspiracy from medical professionals and state medical examiners to make this pandemic look worse. This conspiracy would have to be world wide. The stories you are relating are illegal and if they happened should be reported. I searched for any evidence to verify your fact that hospitals are getting 3x the money and found none. With the prevalence of these cases why would hospitals be struggling so much. Please do not denigrate the people on the front lines of protecting us without real evidence.

So my mother-in-law a thirty+ year ICU nurse and close friends are lying to me? People that have been in their professions for 20 years as deputy coroners telling me about the death certificate changs, and the first article on a google search about the hospitals was this: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ore-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/

 

[davidvel]

My God son, future spouse is a RN in a San Diego hospital, that have been assigned to the Coronavirus floor, for the past several months. That is why, I am very upset with what is going on in California.

Please wear masks and practice social distancing. My post is not about me, it is about protecting people lives in California and all over the world.

Finally, The Association of American Medical College (AAMC) are supporting Dr. Fauci in wearing Masks and Social Distancing.
This group is make up of every medical college and university in the United States. How is that for support?. Is Medical Knowledge, Education and Training Still Power ?

Why are you upset, when you haven't seen first hand what is happening here? Practically everyone (in San Diego at least ) wears a mask as required anytime they are in personal contact with others or public indoor spaces. From news reports this is generally the same statewide.

Outdoors, people generally do not mask up when exercising, and at the beach, but do their best to distance themselves. While some pictures make it seem people are closer then they are I have felt comfortable in these spaces, and frankly believe people being outdoors, more than being all cooped up in a house, is a better way to reduce spread of the virus.

 

[bluehende]

So my mother-in-law a thirty+ year ICU nurse and close friends are lying to me? People that have been in their professions for 20 years as deputy coroners telling me about the death certificate changs, and the first article on a google search about the hospitals was this: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ore-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/

I am not sure what part of if true it should be reported is calling her a liar. I do not believe it or disbelieve it. If that happened please report it. My comment is based on even 1 true episode does not lead to a conclusion of

the death toll numbers are insanely skewed

Your own article confirms hospitals are paid more per case. It also acknowledges that people on respirators get a lot more. This disease has people on respirators a long time. I would say that the article while confirming the average covid patient gains more billing but has the cause being the long time on respirators.

from the article you posted.

Ask FactCheck reporter Angelo Fichera, who interviewed Jensen, noted, "Jensen said he did not think that hospitals were intentionally misclassifying cases for financial reasons. But that’s how his comments have been widely interpreted and paraded on social media."

Ask FactCheck's conclusion: "Recent legislation pays hospitals higher Medicare rates for COVID-19 patients and treatment, but there is no evidence of fraudulent reporting."

 

[nerodog]

Ok. We were trying to work in a trip to San Diego for either November or December 2020. Now the Commander in Chief, is saying No, No, No.

You aren't a "Karen". Personally, I dont like this term and feel very bad for those with the given name. It's just like the ok boomer. Tacky.

 

[Cornell]

You aren't a "Karen". Personally, I dont like this term and feel very cad for those with the given name. It's just like the ok boomer. Tacky.

Or “cool kids”

 

[nerodog]

Or “cool kids”

Yup

 

[Karen G]

You aren't a "Karen". Personally, I dont like this term and feel very bad for those with the given name. It's just like the ok boomer. Tacky.

Actually, I AM a Karen! And I don't like the term either!

 

[nerodog]

Actually, I AM a Karen! And I don't like the term either!

That's my point!!! I have 2 friends named Karen and they cringe every time. It was a very popular name in 50's-60s.and when I looked it up there was a picture if a Karen stereotype. Talk about hypocrisy.

 

[Shankilicious]

With the prevalence of these cases why would hospitals be struggling so much.

This is why hospitals are struggling even if they're fudging the Covid death numbers.
"Surges of critically ill Covid-19 patients didn’t only overwhelm hospital emergency rooms, strain staff and deplete personal protective equipment. The outbreak also sapped their supply of drugs, forced them to pay inflated prices for basic supplies and decimated a primary revenue source, elective surgeries.

Those procedures, scheduled operations such as joint replacements, tumor removals and cardiac surgeries, comprise an average of 48% of all hospital income, according to experts." - Market Watch

 

[Chrispee]

It has been interesting observing the Covid threads on TUG and getting to hear the opinions of the many members in the USA. In other times, the freedom of the people in the states is admirable, but the desire to exercise civil liberties in unmeaningful ways during the pandemic has been a real eye opener; Daily trips to Home Depot, shaking hands with friends/acquaintances, attending religious services, hitting the beach etc. It's all happening in other countries as well, but nowhere else does it seem to be as prevalent. Match this up with a decentralized pandemic response, little social safety net, and a medical system that is profit-based and here we are. In the end, the US people are innovative and resilient and will come out the other side of this galvanized.

 

[Chrisky]

[QUOTE="Shankilicious, Has anyone run the stats on if we keep increasing at this rate, how long before the whole world gets infected?

The whole world has been infected, and in most cases their cases are decreasing, only in some US states are the cases exploding. That is where the problem is, too many people listening to the wrong people about this virus and too many people believing in conspiracy theories instead of believing the health experts.

 

[linsj]

2- the death toll numbers are insanely skewed and this is due to several factors that I have first had, personal experience with and knowledge from myself and family and co-workers. Death certificates signed by the county coroner as cause of death being heart attacks and other "natural causes" have been changed to Covid-19. Two close friends grandparents died of cancer and while in the hospital, the family was offered a lump sum to state the death was Covid related. It's a fact that the hospitals get paid up to 3xs as much for listing a death as being Covid related instead of any other cause and once money gets directly involved with the numbers, you can't trust the numbers anymore.

A friend's sister-in-law's parent died of cancer in a nursing home in May. The administrator offered the sister-in-law $1000 for letting them list COVID-19 as cause of death so the home could get $14,000 from the government. I didn't know this was happening in hospitals too. Like @Shankilicious, I no longer trust the numbers.

 

[Cornell]

For California schools that won’t be opening up , how are teachers that have their own children (that should be in school) going to effectively teach via online ?