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Wyndham Resale vs Developer Points:

dgalati

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I get that, those owners have already spent a ton of money, The jump to VIP makes sense if the owner can look at the money he spent as a "sunk" cost, because he'll never get it back. To my way of thinking its throwing good money after bad. But thats me, Im always looking for a "Return on Investment"
 

dgalati

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Hopefully they make it work for themselves. No matter how you are invested enjoy your ownership.
 

chapjim

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Thanks Jim I appreciate your comment. What about Privileges do you like the new Vip levels and would you buy for the status ?

I couldn't care less. If 1,400,000 is the cut line for the top tier, I'm already there, whatever they call it.
 

Ecelso

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Where did you find this? Well, heck, maybe I should go VIP.

when I was doing the sales with the developer, which I rescinded, they sign me up with the wyndham rewards credit card: https://wyndhamrewardscreditcard.com/ it was one of the perks they kept telling me about for going gold... what I am not sure about is if you need to book your stay with the credit card or just have it. Also, I am thinking gold is not the same gold as VIP but the sales guy made it seem that way.
 

bendadin

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Preferred room selection and late check-out are subject to availability at check-in upon request for Qualified Stays & Go Free / Go Fast award stays at Wyndham Rewards hotels (excluding Caesars Entertainment hotels). Preferred room requested must be the same room type category as the originally booked room. Member Levels is a part of the Wyndham Rewards program.

So basically it has nothing to do with the timeshare side.
 

Ecelso

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Good findings. Thanks for validating... I will update the post.
 

Grammarhero

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Grammarhero

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when I was doing the sales with the developer, which I rescinded, they sign me up with the wyndham rewards credit card: https://wyndhamrewardscreditcard.com/ it was one of the perks they kept telling me about for going gold... what I am not sure about is if you need to book your stay with the credit card or just have it. Also, I am thinking gold is not the same gold as VIP but the sales guy made it seem that way.

Mind telling us how much you saved with the recission?
 

Ecelso

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1. $43k for 300k points at Bennett Creek
2. $3700 for 400k point Discovery program.

1. I cancelled #1 after doing math
2. I cancelled #2 after learning about resale
 

dgalati

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1. $43k for 300k points at Bennett Creek
2. $3700 for 400k point Discovery program.

1. I cancelled #1 after doing math
2. I cancelled #2 after learning about resale
Nice. Now due your due diligence before buying resale.
 

HitchHiker71

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There is value to vip and I would argue that the only two of the “pros” the op mentions that has any monetary value are the discounted reservations and upgrades. But that value evaporates when compared to the secondary market

A million points purchased from wyndham will cost something like $150000. And MF will be about $7000 a year. Even if done with PIC you still have to buy 500000 points from wyndham with a purchase price of $75000 and pretty close to the same $7000 mf

And what do you get for that? half price for the reservations you make in the 60 days before check in and the possibility of upgrades.

So let’s assume our vip does all his reservations within the 60 day window. A non vip would have to own 2 million points to duplicate the same reservations

So let’s look at 2 guys with $150000 to commit to vacation ownership. One guy spends his $150000 with wyndham to buy a 1000000 point vip account with mf of $7000 a year.

And let’s further assume the other guy buys 2000000 points on the secondary for $10000 and his mf will be $14000 a year. This guy puts his remaining $140000 into 20 year municipal bonds paying $5% or $7000 a year. He uses this $7000 to pay half his mf

At the end of 20 years the vip guy will have spent close to $300000 (purchase price plus mf) and own an asset worth about $5000. And our non vip will have spent the same (purchase price plus mf minus interest on the bond). The difference is he will ha e assets worth $150000 (the timeshare plus the bond)

For me this is a no brainer all the vip benefits can’t come close to the $150000 they cost

Agree 100% on the general premise. VIP is all about perceived value. Couple of sticking points. One, $150k for 1MM points is high. I purchased 210k CWA points for $134/1000 last year. I have no qualms saying that a 1MM point purchase could be had for $100k flat easily. Still, VIP isn't worth 100k at least by the numbers. I paid 27k a year ago for VIPG with PIC (currently VIPP for two years due to bonus point contract that expires Sept 2020). I cannot justify paying any more to get up to VIPP with any kind of breakeven analysis though - and believe me I have tried over the past several months to find a way without success. IME you can beat Wyndham MFs pretty handily with PIC - that's how I was able to find a breakeven within 10 years when compared to an equivalent resale buyer. My MFs are significantly lower than any Wyndham resort for my 508k of PIC points. If the PIC MFs are not significantly lower than the comparable Wyndham MFs, then breakeven isn't feasible either based upon my analytics. Good feedback Ron, as always.
 

dgalati

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-can use ovation program to give back/cancel points/membership


Wyndham sets the asset price at $0 with Ovations.I would call this a con if buying developer points. If bought resale for less then $500 I would consider it a pro.
 

Grammarhero

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Agree 100% on the general premise. VIP is all about perceived value. Couple of sticking points. One, $150k for 1MM points is high. I purchased 210k CWA points for $134/1000 last year. I have no qualms saying that a 1MM point purchase could be had for $100k flat easily. Still, VIP isn't worth 100k at least by the numbers. I paid 27k a year ago for VIPG with PIC (currently VIPP for two years due to bonus point contract that expires Sept 2020). I cannot justify paying any more to get up to VIPP with any kind of breakeven analysis though - and believe me I have tried over the past several months to find a way without success. IME you can beat Wyndham MFs pretty handily with PIC - that's how I was able to find a breakeven within 10 years when compared to an equivalent resale buyer. My MFs are significantly lower than any Wyndham resort for my 508k of PIC points. If the PIC MFs are not significantly lower than the comparable Wyndham MFs, then breakeven isn't feasible either based upon my analytics. Good feedback Ron, as always.

Looks like you found a way to make buying developer points work for you. Do you ever regret your retail purchase?
 
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Richelle

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The only thing I can respond to is that you CANNOT book WM with resale.

You cannot book WM through Club Pass. You CAN book WM through RCI, with resale points. Like Club Pass, availability is limited during certain seasons.

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Richelle

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Not sure I understand it. Sorry


I updated the information. thank you!

You can still book WM through RCI with resale points.


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dgalati

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You can still book WM through RCI with resale points.


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If I may add a few others Diamond resorts, Bluegreen, Shell, Tahiti club and Hilton vacations to name a few others
 

HitchHiker71

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-can use ovation program to give back/cancel points/membership


Wyndham sets the asset price at $0 with Ovations.I would call this a con if buying developer points. If bought resale for less then $500 I would consider it a pro.

I respectfully disagree with a blanket statement like this for a few key reasons. Particularly for higher MF contracts - basically CWA and any contract higher than the CWA MF rate. You may not like the fact that Wyndham is unwilling to pay anything for recovering the points in question, but AFAIK they are also absorbing all fees during the Ovation transaction, including closing costs and transfer fees, which are normally at least $500.00 - and typically paid by the seller in the majority of resale transactions on the secondary market - almost without exception especially with higher MF resale transactions.

Let's paint a real life example here. Let's say someone owns 500k of CWA developer points. They are paying $6.59/1000 MFs annually, or 500*6.59=$3295/year. They choose to use Ovations and qualify for the limited edition program which entitles the owner to three years of free usage of their points. Wyndham covers the transaction fees and takes over the MFs. The owner gets three years at 500k/year points usage. $3295*3=$9885 in free travel. If you were to resell 500k CWA points on the secondary market, you would have to pay the transfer fees at $299, plus closing costs, and you have to continue making the MF payments until the third party closing company completes their process and sends the updated deed to Wyndham, after which the contract then actually transfers to the buyer (figure 90 days). So, you the seller are on the hook for $299, plus CC of $200 (low really), plus $275*3=$825, or $1324.00 total. If you would get maximum $5/1000 points on the resale market, or $2500. $2500-1324=$1176. Granted, you get $1176 in your pocket, but you also forgo almost 10k in free accommodations via the Limited Edition program. Just one example of how your blanket statement can set the wrong expectation dependent upon the use case.
 
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Richelle

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I respectfully disagree with a blanket statement like this for a few key reasons. Particularly for higher MF contracts - basically CWA and any contract higher than the CWA MF rate. You may not like the fact that Wyndham is unwilling to pay anything for recovering the points in question, but AFAIK they are also absorbing all fees during the Ovation transaction, including closing costs and transfer fees, which are normally at least $500.00 - and typically paid by the seller in the majority of resale transactions on the secondary market - almost without exception especially with higher MF resale transactions.

Let's paint a real life example here. Let's say someone owns 500k of CWA developer points. They are paying $6.59/1000 MFs annually, or 500*6.59=$3295/year. They choose to use Ovations and qualify for the limited edition program which entitles the owner to three years of free usage of their points. Wyndham covers the transaction fees and takes over the MFs. The owner gets three years at 500k/year points usage. $3295*3=$9885 in free travel. If you were to resell 500k CWA points on the secondary market, you would have to pay the transfer fees at $299, plus closing costs, and you have to continue making the MF payments until the deed/contract actually transfers to the buyer (figure 90 days). So, you the seller are on the hook for $299, plus CC of $200 (low really), plus $275*3=$825, or $1324.00 total. If you would get maximum $5/1000 points on the resale market, or $2500. $2500-1324=$1176. Granted, you get $1176 in your pocket, but you also forgo almost 10k in free accommodations via the Limited Edition program. Just one example of how your blanket statement can set the wrong expectation dependent upon the use case.

Just to add, Ovations is faster, so you’re paying maintenance fees for less time then if you were waiting for a resale transfer. The Ovations person said once the deed is recorded in Wyndham’s name, they stop collecting maintenance fees. On a private party transfer, the deed is recorded by a closing company and it takes 8-14 weeks for the transfer. So that’s an additional 2-3 months worth of maintenance fees you don’t have to pay when using Ovations.


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Braindead

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Wyndham sets the asset price at $0 with Ovations.
If bought resale for less then $500 I would consider it a pro.
Both of these are blank statements that need to stop also as they are false.
Ovation sets a MINIMUM price if you want out. Wyndham Owners don’t have to pay to exit their timeshare except 2-3 months of MFs if Ovation accepts it.
Ovations is a GREAT program in my opinion

Whether it’s $0 or $100 or $50 or $500 there’s never a comment on how large the contracts are or the resort owned including CWA
To lead newbies to believe that no resale contracts have a value over $500 is false & misleading.
Resale contracts bring thousands of dollars all the time on ebay.
A NH 225k contract just sold for over $2,700 on ebay.
All 3 of us & many many owners have paid thousands for a single resale contract.
Do you think we’re all wrong & are foolish with our hard earned $$$$??

I will also ask you politely that you stop asking every VIP that comes along if they think VIP pays for itself.
You are looking at 3 owners & there’s more of us on here that purchased directly from Wyndham after purchasing resales.
None of us have regretted our purchases becoming VIPs & or PR owners.
Is it for everyone?? No but you don’t see us bashing resale only owners. Why?? RESPECT - what purpose is there for us to do that?? None in my opinion!!

So please stop bashing VIPs, direct purchase owners & everybody that’s paid more that $500 for a resale contract.
You & others will never be convinced that VIP is worth it while many VIPs will never be convinced it wasn’t worth it for their personal situation!! So please stop

The purpose of TUG is to help each other to get the most out of their ownership no matter what type & size of your ownership!!!!!!!!



I respectfully disagree with a blanket statement like this for a few key reasons. Particularly for higher MF contracts - basically CWA and any contract higher than the CWA MF rate. You may not like the fact that Wyndham is unwilling to pay anything for recovering the points in question, but AFAIK they are also absorbing all fees during the Ovation transaction, including closing costs and transfer fees, which are normally at least $500.00 - and typically paid by the seller in the majority of resale transactions on the secondary market - almost without exception especially with higher MF resale transactions.

Let's paint a real life example here. Let's say someone owns 500k of CWA developer points. They are paying $6.59/1000 MFs annually, or 500*6.59=$3295/year. They choose to use Ovations and qualify for the limited edition program which entitles the owner to three years of free usage of their points. Wyndham covers the transaction fees and takes over the MFs. The owner gets three years at 500k/year points usage. $3295*3=$9885 in free travel. If you were to resell 500k CWA points on the secondary market, you would have to pay the transfer fees at $299, plus closing costs, and you have to continue making the MF payments until the deed/contract actually transfers to the buyer (figure 90 days). So, you the seller are on the hook for $299, plus CC of $200 (low really), plus $275*3=$825, or $1324.00 total. If you would get maximum $5/1000 points on the resale market, or $2500. $2500-1324=$1176. Granted, you get $1176 in your pocket, but you also forgo almost 10k in free accommodations via the Limited Edition program. Just one example of how your blanket statement can set the wrong expectation dependent upon the use case.
Just to add, Ovations is faster, so you’re paying maintenance fees for less time then if you were waiting for a resale transfer. The Ovations person said once the deed is recorded in Wyndham’s name, they stop collecting maintenance fees. On a private party transfer, the deed is recorded by a closing company and it takes 8-14 weeks for the transfer. So that’s an additional 2-3 months worth of maintenance fees you don’t have to pay when using Ovations.


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Jimag

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Both of these are blank statements that need to stop also as they are false.
Ovation sets a MINIMUM price if you want out. Wyndham Owners don’t have to pay to exit their timeshare if Ovation accepts it.
Ovations is a GREAT program in my opinion

Whether it’s $0 or $100 or $50 or $500 there’s never a comment on how large the contracts are or the resort owned including CWA
To lead newbies to believe that no resale contracts have a value over $500 is false & misleading.
Resale contracts bring thousands of dollars all the time on ebay.
A NH 225k contract just sold for over $2,700 on ebay.
All 3 of us & many many owners have paid thousands for a single resale contract.
Do you think we’re all wrong & are foolish with our hard earned $$$$??

I will also ask you politely that you stop asking every VIP that comes along if they think VIP pays for itself.
You are looking at 3 owners & there’s more of us on here that purchased directly from Wyndham after purchasing resales.
None of us have regretted our purchases becoming VIPs & or PR owners.
Is it for everyone?? No but you don’t see us bashing resale only owners. Why?? RESPECT - what purpose is there for us to do that?? None in my opinion!!

So please stop bashing VIPs, direct purchase owners & everybody that’s paid more that $500 for a resale contract.
You & others will never be convinced that VIP is worth it while many VIPs will never be convinced it wasn’t worth it for their personal situation!! So please stop

The purpose of TUG is to help each other to get the most out of their ownership no matter what type & size of your ownership!!!!!!!!

Am I not reading closely enough? There seems to be a disconnect between your analysis and Richelle's post in response. I understand your post to say Wyndham assumes responsibility for MFs when the Ovation process is started. Richelle reports that Wyndham's Ovation person indicated that Wyndham assumes responsibility for MFs when the deed transfers. That presumably would be at the end of the process. If that's correct, the benefit of using Ovation is less than you suggest.
 

Jimag

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I respectfully disagree with a blanket statement like this for a few key reasons. Particularly for higher MF contracts - basically CWA and any contract higher than the CWA MF rate. You may not like the fact that Wyndham is unwilling to pay anything for recovering the points in question, but AFAIK they are also absorbing all fees during the Ovation transaction, including closing costs and transfer fees, which are normally at least $500.00 - and typically paid by the seller in the majority of resale transactions on the secondary market - almost without exception especially with higher MF resale transactions.

Let's paint a real life example here. Let's say someone owns 500k of CWA developer points. They are paying $6.59/1000 MFs annually, or 500*6.59=$3295/year. They choose to use Ovations and qualify for the limited edition program which entitles the owner to three years of free usage of their points. Wyndham covers the transaction fees and takes over the MFs. The owner gets three years at 500k/year points usage. $3295*3=$9885 in free travel. If you were to resell 500k CWA points on the secondary market, you would have to pay the transfer fees at $299, plus closing costs, and you have to continue making the MF payments until the deed/contract actually transfers to the buyer (figure 90 days). So, you the seller are on the hook for $299, plus CC of $200 (low really), plus $275*3=$825, or $1324.00 total. If you would get maximum $5/1000 points on the resale market, or $2500. $2500-1324=$1176. Granted, you get $1176 in your pocket, but you also forgo almost 10k in free accommodations via the Limited Edition program. Just one example of how your blanket statement can set the wrong expectation dependent upon the use case.

I mistakenly posted this comment to Braindead's post below. I hope posting it here helps to resolve the confusion:

Am I not reading closely enough? There seems to be a disconnect between your analysis and Richelle's post in response. I understand your post to say Wyndham assumes responsibility for MFs when the Ovation process is started. Richelle reports that Wyndham's Ovation person indicated that Wyndham assumes responsibility for MFs when the deed transfers. That presumably would be at the end of the process. If that's correct, the benefit of using Ovation is less than you suggest.
 

Richelle

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Wyndham Canterbury
Wyndham Atlanta
Bay Club of Sandestin
Williamsburg Plantation
Both of these are blank statements that need to stop also as they are false.
Ovation sets a MINIMUM price if you want out. Wyndham Owners don’t have to pay to exit their timeshare if Ovation accepts it.
Ovations is a GREAT program in my opinion

Whether it’s $0 or $100 or $50 or $500 there’s never a comment on how large the contracts are or the resort owned including CWA
To lead newbies to believe that no resale contracts have a value over $500 is false & misleading.
Resale contracts bring thousands of dollars all the time on ebay.
A NH 225k contract just sold for over $2,700 on ebay.
All 3 of us & many many owners have paid thousands for a single resale contract.
Do you think we’re all wrong & are foolish with our hard earned $$$$??

I will also ask you politely that you stop asking every VIP that comes along if they think VIP pays for itself.
You are looking at 3 owners & there’s more of us on here that purchased directly from Wyndham after purchasing resales.
None of us have regretted our purchases becoming VIPs & or PR owners.
Is it for everyone?? No but you don’t see us bashing resale only owners. Why?? RESPECT - what purpose is there for us to do that?? None in my opinion!!

So please stop bashing VIPs, direct purchase owners & everybody that’s paid more that $500 for a resale contract.
You & others will never be convinced that VIP is worth it while many VIPs will never be convinced it wasn’t worth it for their personal situation!! So please stop

The purpose of TUG is to help each other to get the most out of their ownership no matter what type & size of your ownership!!!!!!!!

I find that the people who are adamant that VIP is not worth anything, and go through the trouble of calculating numbers, are often the ones who want it most. They go through the math, so they can convince themselves it’s not worth it. Even though they can see the perceived value, and would actually like to have those benefits, they rely on the calculations to convince themselves (not necessarily us), that VIP is not worth the cost. I’m not saying dgalati is one of those people. I’m saying I’ve seen plenty of people bash VIPs for purchasing retail, but a lot of them secretly want the benefits, even though they know the math doesn’t add a up. I’ve had some private message me, and ask about how they can go VIP with PIC. Publicly though, they are adamant that they will never spend the money to go VIP. So I have learned to overlook their math, and comments about VIP worth. Their opinion of worth doesn’t matter when it comes to MY money. Just like my opinion doesn’t matter when it comes to their money.

The people who bash VIPs should drive the base model cars, because you don’t need to get the frills to go from point A to point B. Perhaps they should buy a tiny house with a one bathroom. You are not required to have one bathroom to live. Better yet, maybe they shouldn’t go on vacation at all, because they could invest that money and get a return that they will spend on nothing because 90% of what we buy or use is not needed to survive. If they want to tell us the worth of what we buy, they maybe we can tell them the worth of their car, house, boat, RV, etc. Of course, you can say houses and cars have resale value and timeshare do not. The problem with that argument is, I didn’t buy to invest. I bought because I wanted more then a hotel room when I vacation. I never expected any resale value. The only time I really consider resale value is with a house, because houses can often be harder to get rid of then timeshares, if you’re in a buyers market or the market value decreased on your house.


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Jimag

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I mistakenly posted this comment to Braindead's post below. I hope posting it here helps to resolve the confusion:

Am I not reading closely enough? There seems to be a disconnect between your analysis and Richelle's post in response. I understand your post to say Wyndham assumes responsibility for MFs when the Ovation process is started. Richelle reports that Wyndham's Ovation person indicated that Wyndham assumes responsibility for MFs when the deed transfers. That presumably would be at the end of the process. If that's correct, the benefit of using Ovation is less than you suggest.

Now that I've reread the posts, I think I understand. The question is how long it takes Wyndham to transfer the deed after the documents requesting relinquishing a contract through Ovations are submitted. At the least it cuts out the time it takes the reseller to perform it's part of the deal.
 
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