Wyndham Privileges: new Wyndham VIP Levels starting late 2020 [Merged]

[chapjim]

I totally hear you and we are all suspending judgment until we see what actually happens. That said, most of the prior changes in 2012 and in 2016/2017 that can easily be categorized as negative were prior to the new CEO coming onboard, who is very customer focused in comparison. He has been personally involved in the VIP changes to date from what I understand. It's his name signed at the bottom of this recent memo. From what people have told me, he takes his job seriously and realizes that it's the owners that matter most, and particularly those of us who are VIP owners and have made a comparatively large investment of our monies when compared to others. I'm holding out hope, call it cautious optimism perhaps, that we'll actually see enhancements to the VIP program as part of this whole process.

Color me skeptical.

Concern for owners must be secondary to concern for stockholders. They may be in alignment but if they are not, owners will be a secondary concern. This is basic corporate governance.

 

[Richelle]

Color me skeptical.

Concern for owners must be secondary to concern for stockholders. They may be in alignment but if they are not, owners will be a secondary concern. This is basic corporate governance.

They are a business. Their first and foremost concern is keeping the doors open. Second is keeping the shareholders happy. If they are not happy, they bail and that hurts Wyndham’s ability to maintain their first priority. Shareholders affect their bottom line. We come in third, because again, without us, they cannot maintain the first priority. I’m not saying it’s all sunshine and rainbows. I’m saying, I am not surprised money is a factor. It’s how all companies work. At least the ones that want to stay in business. A CEO worth their weight, isn’t going to work for peanuts. If Wyndham doesn’t pay them in line with other CEOs of similar size companies (at the very least) they are not going to get the best talent. If they don’t get the best, or at least close to the best, Wyndham goes in the toilet and our timeshares are not just worthless, their useless. That being said, I don’t agree with the sales tactics used. A good CEO should have good sales executives working for him, that can come up with better ways to sell, that do not Involve lying and cheating. I am not sure if he is working on that, or turning a blind eye like the rest. He’s only been at the helm for a couple years. They’ve been using the same sales practices for a decade now. I cannot say with any certainty, that things should have changed by now, but I would imagine it wouldn’t be easy to make a change like that. Maybe I’m an optimist, but I’m going to withhold judgment until I see what they change in the next year or so.


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[Richelle]

I’m guessing that’s not a loss of a benefit because Gold Privilege is the current VIP Silver & Silver doesn’t currently have that benefit.

I wonder when the Emerald level will be available.
Why would anyone want to buy today in the 300,000 - 399,000 range without being Emerald & then be forced to buy another 84k points to get any benefits? You would be forced to skip over the Emerald level & go to Privilege Gold.
This could hurt sales not help them short term.

I had the same thought about Emerald. I’m guessing that level is being targeted to people that are in the 200,000 point range. The smallest package that can be bought is 28,000 points from telesales. There is not a chance a resort sales person would bother with a package like that, so most likely they would try to sell 84,000 points or more.


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[HitchHiker71]

Color me skeptical.

Concern for owners must be secondary to concern for stockholders. They may be in alignment but if they are not, owners will be a secondary concern. This is basic corporate governance.

The cost of obtaining a net new customer is much higher than the cost of retaining an existing paying customer. This is also basic corporate best practice and governance. Concern for owners and concern for stockholders is therefore one and the same as far as I'm concerned. VIP owners are existing customers, and furthermore, we are existing customers who have demonstrated an ability and willingness to invest into the company. I get what you are saying in that any publicly held company is beholden to their stockholders - at least those with voting rights. But to upset your best existing paying customers, is death to any business in today's business climate. If Wyndham is listening, they will enhance the VIP program to ensure they retain as many happy customers as is possible.

 

[dgalati]

Hoodwinked isn't the right word. I accept (accept, not like) the May 2017 changes and have changed my way of doing things to try to compensate. I just get tired of the crap.

I find especially annoying all the hyperbole and the way they spin every thing to make it sound like Wyndham's principal concern is the benefits to owners. It is incredible that someone could write this stuff and pitch it to VIP owners -- the ones who have spent the greatest amount of money, been around longest, and best understand the program and what has happened over the years -- and think they will buy it.

Many Bought into the sales pitch as it is easy to get caught up in the high pressure sales tactics. Wyndhams main concern has never been about benefits to owners. Their main concern is sell more points for profit$.

 

[Braindead]

Many Bought into the sales pitch as it is easy to get caught up in the high pressure sales tactics. Wyndhams main concern has never been about benefits to owners. Their main concern is sell more points for profit$.

Wyndham became number 1 in timeshares by striking a balance of happy owners & happy stockholders. You can’t have one without the other & have a strong viable business.

We all may get our bitch on at times but we are all still owners & for the most part happy owners. Do I get pissed off & frustrated with Wyndham? Sure I do but I’m still a happy owner. As owners we always want it all when it comes to benefits even though we know that’s not possible. While stockholders want the stock to double every year even though they know that’s not going to happen.

I’m guessing the last round of changes has backfired & not working out as planned. Now the CEO Mr Brown has decided that action is needed as words trying to smooth over the last changes haven’t pacified us owners.

I’m cautiously optimistic also!! The only reason the upcoming changes are taking place is that CEO Mr Brown acknowledges something needs to be done to keep a happy customer base-us the owners.

I give Mr Brown credit for listening & deciding action is needed. I may change my mind in a year and half when all this takes effect but for now I’m giving him a chance to make a positive change for us the owners.

I want to make one thing clear. We all have “status”. The word “owner” gives you “status”. Yes in my book even a resale only “owner” has “status” in Wyndham Destinations

 

[bogey21]

I wonder how you Wyndham owners like the name "Privileges"? It sounds to me like they are trying to make you feel special. I'm not a Wyndham owner, just an outsider looking in. I also kind of wonder what MVC owners think of "Bonvoy" which also makes no sense to me. Maybe I have too much time on my hands...

George

 

[wjappraise]

I wonder how you Wyndham owners like the name "Privileges"? It sounds to me like they are trying to make you feel special. I'm not a Wyndham owner, just an outsider looking in. I also kind of wonder what MVC owners think of "Bonvoy" which also makes no sense to me. Maybe I have too much time on my hands...

George

Great point.

I’m not sure what term I prefer but I’ve never liked “VIP”. it’s so pretentious. Like my level of ownership elevates my value as a person... please.

And I believe the result has been the air of entitlement that permeates some owners at check in. I hate using the VIP line simply because of the way some VIP owners act and treat the check in personnel. I hope they do away with the second check in line. We can all wait for the next desk man or woman.

My VIP status is the result of some poor financial choices in years past. I clearly overpaid prior to finding this blog site.

I tried to make chicken salad by finally going Platinum and PR. But to me I’m not proud of my VIP status. It speaks to my impetuous nature more than my value as a human.

Wes.

 

[Sandy VDH]

I got my VIP Platinum by purchasing 160K directly from Wyndham, but no more. The rest were PIC weeks and fixed week (some family, some resales) conversions to points. So though I had to pay something to Wyndham I did not overpay, but I did it deliberately to obtain VIPP. I even got it written into my contract that VIP P was part of the deal. They tried to remove it a few years ago when they dismissed resales from qualifying, but since I did have it written into the contract, it forced them to restore my VIPP status.

 

[chapjim]

<snip>
I hope they do away with the second check in line. We can all wait for the next desk man or woman.
<snip>

We never get any place early enough to have to contend with any lines at all! If there were a bell on the counter, we'd have to ring it to get someone to come out front!

 

[Braindead]

I’ve been racking my brain[I can hear the chuckles] wondering why this would be announced so far in advance along with some of the terms used. Here’s some speculation:

All owners use year will be the calendar year.

I would bet the number one reason for phone calls is on auto upgrades.
All upgrades are gone history. To many paths, to many quirks at different resorts, same reservation is in the upgrade period for one owner but not the next. This is the number one area that I see Wyndham would be liable in a lawsuit, pretty open & shut case when you can show an upgrade was available but you didn’t get it. Auto upgrades-Voyager has been a failure & easy to prove.

On rotating discounts:
0-3 months, Express Window
60% for Titanium
45% for Diamond
30% for Gold
15% for Emerald

3-6 months
40% for Titanium
30% for Diamond
20% for Gold
10% for Emerald

6-9 months maybe 10 but doubt it
20% for Titanium
15% for Diamond
10% for Gold
5% for Emerald

Beyond 9 or 10 months no discount

I think the word Diamond is significant. Remember the rumors about Wyndham buying-merger with Diamond Resorts.
More destinations was a comment so maybe Diamond Privilege or higher[Titanium] level gets access to Diamond Resorts

Simplified, easy to program. I wouldn’t be surprised if Voyager is history also. Hate to think of a new website but it couldn’t be much worse than the Voyager rollout and this could be another reason the changes were announced so far in advance.
Your upgrades are gone but you’ll get more discounted reservations

I had fun speculating anyway

 

[HitchHiker71]

I’ve been racking my brain[I can hear the chuckles] wondering why this would be announced so far in advance along with some of the terms used. Here’s some speculation:

All owners use year will be the calendar year.

I would bet the number one reason for phone calls is on auto upgrades.
All upgrades are gone history. To many paths, to many quirks at different resorts, same reservation is in the upgrade period for one owner but not the next. This is the number one area that I see Wyndham would be liable in a lawsuit, pretty open & shut case when you can show an upgrade was available but you didn’t get it. Auto upgrades-Voyager has been a failure & easy to prove.

On rotating discounts:
0-3 months, Express Window
60% for Titanium
45% for Diamond
30% for Gold
15% for Emerald

3-6 months
40% for Titanium
30% for Diamond
20% for Gold
10% for Emerald

6-9 months maybe 10 but doubt it
20% for Titanium
15% for Diamond
10% for Gold
5% for Emerald

Beyond 9 or 10 months no discount

I think the word Diamond is significant. Remember the rumors about Wyndham buying-merger with Diamond Resorts.
More destinations was a comment so maybe Diamond Privilege or higher[Titanium] level gets access to Diamond Resorts

Simplified, easy to program. I wouldn’t be surprised if Voyager is history also. Hate to think of a new website but it couldn’t be much worse than the Voyager rollout and this could be another reason the changes were announced so far in advance.
Your upgrades are gone but you’ll get more discounted reservations

I had fun speculating anyway

Michael Brown approved 16MM in funds for a significant website overhaul several months ago from what have been told. My understanding is that the coding for this project started recently. You are probably on target that Voyager will be replaced or significantly upgraded as part of this program change.

On the discounts, who knows really. I’ve heard several rumors from discount windows disappearing in entirety, to the expansion of discount window times based upon tiers, along with auto-upgrade windows to boot. I think these are the elements that have yet to be finalized. Only time will tell of course.


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[Braindead]

I’m computer illiterate as they come but auto upgrades must be a tough cookie.
I can’t see spending $16mil with any chance of it failing again, keep it simple
Paxsarah post “Simplified?” Really caught my attention. Thinking of use years and various windows

Wyndham needs it to be simplified for their benefit

 

[dgalati]

Great point.

I’m not sure what term I prefer but I’ve never liked “VIP”. it’s so pretentious. Like my level of ownership elevates my value as a person... please.

And I believe the result has been the air of entitlement that permeates some owners at check in. I hate using the VIP line simply because of the way some VIP owners act and treat the check in personnel. I hope they do away with the second check in line. We can all wait for the next desk man or woman.

My VIP status is the result of some poor financial choices in years past. I clearly overpaid prior to finding this blog site.

I tried to make chicken salad by finally going Platinum and PR. But to me I’m not proud of my VIP status. It speaks to my impetuous nature more than my value as a human.

Wes.

Well said Wes.

 

[CO skier]

Michael Brown approved 16MM in funds for a significant website overhaul several months ago from what have been told.

He must be new.

How many millions were spent on the Voyager overhaul over (10?) years?

Let's throw another $16MM at the problem. That is sure to solve it.

Fixed weeks converted to points. 2 bedroom lockoffs; how to upgrade? Auto-upgrades without opening the door to abuses of the past. Lots and lots of upgrade complications.

Upgrades more than 60 days in advance?; someone must have been visiting a Dispensary in Colorado on vacation.

The suspense is killing me. (not really).

 

[chapjim]

<snip>
Fixed weeks converted to points. 2 bedroom lockoffs; how to upgrade? Auto-upgrades without opening the door to abuses of the past. Lots and lots of upgrade complications.
<snip>

All of these glitches for sure.

I'd be happier if the reservation list would appear right side-up. Or, when you hit the Back button, you actually got the last page instead of the last page upside-down. I don't need to see the pool at Skyline Tower or the panorama of St. Thomas any more. I would rather that the page load more quickly.

If Wyndham wants a reservation site that works*, they should form a committee of owners, rather than sales people, to help with system requirements. TUG's Wyndham Forum would be a good source.

* "Works" isn't the issue right now. Yes, it must "work" but the real point is that it should be useful and friendly to owners. Owners can help establish requirements. Then, it up to the systems folks to make it work. Right now it doesn't do what owners would like and it doesn't work either. I'm not advocating policy changes here -- just a more useful and functional system.

 

[Manzana]

Found something. Not much.



https://www.wyndhaminteractivesaleshub.com/club-wyndham/CW_Privileges.pdf




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The sales hub comes out great on an iPad. Much better than on my iMac.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Great point.

I’m not sure what term I prefer but I’ve never liked “VIP”. it’s so pretentious. Like my level of ownership elevates my value as a person... please.

And I believe the result has been the air of entitlement that permeates some owners at check in. I hate using the VIP line simply because of the way some VIP owners act and treat the check in personnel. I hope they do away with the second check in line. We can all wait for the next desk man or woman.

My VIP status is the result of some poor financial choices in years past. I clearly overpaid prior to finding this blog site.

I tried to make chicken salad by finally going Platinum and PR. But to me I’m not proud of my VIP status. It speaks to my impetuous nature more than my value as a human.

Wes.

We can quibble over what to call it until the cows come home. Obviously they are changing it from VIP to Privileges at least from what we have seen so far. The basic concept that those who spend more on any particular investment or activity enjoy certain benefits over those who choose not to is perfectly reasonable. Much like airlines as but one example, those who fly the most enjoy the benefits and status that come with being a frequent flyer - and those benefits include priority boarding, upgrades, and priority (VIP) lines. It therefore makes logical sense that those who spend the most on vacations and, at least in theory, vacation more frequently would enjoy the benefits and status that come with being a frequent vacationer. Just because a few folks who are VIPs may seem to abuse the privilege, doesn't mean those who appreciate said benefits and status and do not abuse the privilege should suffer at least IMHO.

It's easy especially here on TUG to say that everyone who purchased developer points made poor choices. But the reality is that resale would not exist were it not for developer purchases in the first place. In fact, resale only exists because someone purchased those developer points first yes?

 

[55plus]

It's easy especially here on TUG to say that everyone who purchased developer points made poor choices. But the reality is that resale would not exist were it not for developer purchases in the first place. In fact, resale only exists because someone purchased those developer points first yes?

If you purchase Wyndham developer points and utilize the VIP benefit and perks, and keep it long enough it can pay for itself, and even more so if you pass it onto family. What is selling now for around $200K sold for around $30K in the early '90s. Our VIPP paid for itself many times over. If you are young and enjoy travel the expense might be worth it. How much will what sells for around $200K now sell for in another 25 years? Looking back, purchasing in the '90s was an investment because we continue to use it. Spending 5 months in Florida every winter at half points is the least expensive way to be a snowbird if you want to be on the ocean or gulf and stay in a nice updated clean and well kept place. And have points left over for more travel throughout the year.

 

[HitchHiker71]

If you purchase Wyndham developer points and utilize the VIP benefit and perks, and keep it long enough it can pay for itself, and even more so if you pass it onto family. What is selling now for around $200K sold for around $30K in the early '90s. Our VIPP paid for itself many times over. If you are young and enjoy travel the expense might be worth it. How much will what sells for around $200K now sell for in another 25 years? Looking back, purchasing in the '90s was an investment because we continue to use it. Spending 5 months in Florida every winter at half points is the least expensive way to be a snowbird if you want to be on the ocean or gulf and stay in a nice updated clean and well kept place. And have points left over for more travel throughout the year.

Agreed, I was able to obtain VIPG with two PIC contracts for only 27k total (temp VIPP for two years). Certainly nowhere close to 200k. We have three young adult children and I suspect at least one of them if not more will inherit our VIP membership when the time comes. Timeshare is a long term investment - it becomes more valuable over the long haul as the "per vacation cost" gets better over time provided we use it. We are looking forward to our golden years when we retire and can be snowbirds!

 

[Richelle]

Agreed, I was able to obtain VIPG with two PIC contracts for only 27k total (temp VIPP for two years). Certainly nowhere close to 200k. We have three young adult children and I suspect at least one of them if not more will inherit our VIP membership when the time comes. Timeshare is a long term investment - it becomes more valuable over the long haul as the "per vacation cost" gets better over time provided we use it. We are looking forward to our golden years when we retire and can be snowbirds!

The snowbird part is what I’m looking forward to the most. Just wish it wasn’t so far away. You know my gold cost $35k w/PIC. Assuming they don’t put to many restrictions on resale in the future, we can enjoy a nice snowbird lifestyle. I think it was $35k well spent.


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[55plus]

The snowbird part is what I’m looking forward to the most. Just wish it wasn’t so far away. You know my gold cost $35k w/PIC. Assuming they don’t put to many restrictions on resale in the future, we can enjoy a nice snowbird lifestyle. I think it was $35k well spent.
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I know Wyndham likes changing the rules after the game starts, but if you have a written contract with Wyndham or Fairfield giving you VIP status I don't see how Wyndham can take away your VIPG benefits because your PIC was resell. The contract is a legal binding document.

 

[Richelle]

I know Wyndham likes changing the rules after the game starts, but if you have a written contract with Wyndham or Fairfield giving you VIP status I don't see how Wyndham can take away your VIPG benefits because your PIC was resell. The contract is a legal binding document.

Sorry, I didn’t mean they would take away status. I was not referring to my PIC points. What I was referring to was resale points. Provided they don’t put on to many restrictions with how they can be used, it’s $35k well spent. Right now, I can use them at any Club Wyndham resort and make discounted reservations with them that are eligible for upgrades. If they limit resale points to just the resorts they are deeded to, that might be troublesome for me. They would be shooting themselves in the foot by doing that, but they could. They could also take away the VIP benefits being extended to resale points and I cannot make discounted reservations with them. I would not be happy with either, but the first might make things very difficult for me.


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[dgalati]

If you purchase Wyndham developer points and utilize the VIP benefit and perks, and keep it long enough it can pay for itself, and even more so if you pass it onto family. What is selling now for around $200K sold for around $30K in the early '90s. Our VIPP paid for itself many times over. If you are young and enjoy travel the expense might be worth it. How much will what sells for around $200K now sell for in another 25 years? Looking back, purchasing in the '90s was an investment because we continue to use it. Spending 5 months in Florida every winter at half points is the least expensive way to be a snowbird if you want to be on the ocean or gulf and stay in a nice updated clean and well kept place. And have points left over for more travel throughout the year.

Do you use all of your points or do you rent some?

 

[55plus]

Do you use all of your points or do you rent some?

We rent out enough points to cover our annual maintenance fees. Use to be more, but we are doing more traveling and stay longer. So many place and so little time.