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WPORV owners update

Discussion in 'Vistana Signature Experiences (formerly Starwood)' started by dyi27308, Apr 15, 2011.

  1. dyi27308

    dyi27308 TUG Member

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    WKORV OV
    We just attended a update today. They offered us a 2 BD/LO EOY for 28K, 86000 points The kicker was they would allow my resale for WKORV (80,000) points to be added with more points incentive adding up to 450, 000 points. Is this a good deal? I know that resale units are being listed as low as 5K.
     
  2. YYJMSP

    YYJMSP TUG Member

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    The points (86,000 and 80,000) you are talking about are SPG (i.e. hotel) points. They are available to you if you convert your ownership instead of using it, which isn't the best value for Hawaii-based units -- the high amount of MFs you pay make the converted SPG points expensive (around 3c/point) for what you get.

    I assume the 450,000 (SPG) points incentives is the "you can buy xx,xxx points per year for $x,xxx" for some fixed number of times? If so, those points are a better deal (usually priced at around 2c/point) than converting your Hawaii ownerships to SPG points; however, there are probably still cheaper ways to get those same points without spending $28K up-front.

    And I'm sure that there will be comments about whether or not converting to SPG points is a good idea at all, and whether or not owning at WPORV is a good idea (vs. trading in from another cheaper location using II), etc.
     
  3. Westin5Star

    Westin5Star TUG Member

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    The only advantage that I see to buying from the developer is if you plan to trade yoru week within SVO often. That is because WPORV on the resale market will not give you Star Options to trade with. Even if you wanted to periodically not go to WPROV, you could rent it out and then use the money to stay elsewhere.

    If you do intend to trade WPROV often, then you should buy WKV resale because the MFs are much less.
     
  4. Kildahl

    Kildahl TUG Member

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    Who was your rep?
     
  5. schubes

    schubes TUG Member

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    We just left an owners update that lasted 2.5 hours of precious vacation time. Same deal as above. They were pushing the fact that we were going to be 3 star elite but couldn't produce any major advantage to us.

    One of the reasons I gave them for not buying TODAY was that I could buy resale mandatory for less with the same advantages. And because this resort is voluntary I would have a hard time selling it on the resale market.

    They INSISTED that buying a resale voluntary absolutely DOES allow you to trade within the SVN system by paying $113 per year but you could not deposit the options for spg points.

    I think he was trying to hide II is the way to trade....really smarmy.

    They also insisted that voluntary was better because you can choose or not to participate in SVN with a resale. This conversation went on for a while back and forth.

    They thought my idea of buying a resale at a mandatory resort for much less was no good since I could not easily trade into Hawaii.

    Then when we were finally released they said we should only come to see them if we were interested in becoming 3 star.....like we wasted their time.
     
  6. TomH

    TomH TUG Member

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    We are here at WPORV. Thanks for the update. I am glad we declined the tour. The resort is nice but really lacks in ocean views and even from the pools, the views are distant. The rooms are excellent as we expect from Westin, the service has been excellent, and the grounds are well landscaped. I really do miss direct beach access like in WKORV. We hung out today and Waiohai and loved the location on Poipu on that gorgeous beach. Drove by the new Marriott Kauai Lagoons. Looked very disappointing also with no beach and poor common facilities. In terms of Kauai, I think 1. Marriott Waiohai, 2. WPORV, 3. Marriott's Kauai Beach Club. The weather has been great!

    Tom
     
  7. schubes

    schubes TUG Member

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    It had educational value .....not the info about SVN or the resort, but the tactics they employed.

    We were privy to:

    -Good cop/bad cop ...(although the good cop turned bad toward the end)
    -Outright lies
    -Bad cop rushing into the room, quickly raising the level of his chair as high as it would go so he was towering over us. (his feet were barely touching the floor)
    -fast talking urgent sham wow sales incentives
    -absolutely feigning shock that as the second time stamp for the week we were not given a best view
    -not knowing anything about people buying a fixed unit during premium weeks thereby invalidating regular buyers (us) from truly having a fair and square
    chance at the best views via timestamp as per contract
    -later offering us the chance to upgrade our week to a fixed view and week for
    a 20 percent fee (why should we, we already bought those units within our
    Original contract!)
    :annoyed:


    At least we are having good laugh today about it.....bad cop looked just like Will Arnett from Arrested Development which made him hard to take seriously in the first place,especially the ballistic blowing into the room and raising the chair so high.
     
  8. Kildahl

    Kildahl TUG Member

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    Having experienced the best and the worst of the sales staff there, i would love to know who the cops were. Kildahl


     
  9. schubes

    schubes TUG Member

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    Bad cop = David. (looks like will arnett the actor)

    Good cop = sheree (I think)

    Both claim to have been here since the beginning of time. David was on and off mad/mean/condescending and always a jacka$$. He is the one who bolted into the room and went right to the chair to raise it up as high as he could in one quick motion like he does it every time or something. It was so high that he could not fit his knees under the desk.

    He was not overly tall and his feet were barely touching the ground.

    Must be intimidation 101. Unfortunately for him I am a people reader and pretty observant.

    By the way sheree called a little while ago and found an eoy unit fixed week hammerhead for us but we would have to hurry because it will sell quickly $33000 eoy odd. I told her I should not have to pay extra to get what I already paid for.

    So FYI, if you are having trouble getting hammerhead during peak times, they sold those out from under us without offering them to us at the time of sale. And I believe it invalidates the contract because we DO NOT have run of the resort based on time stamp any more. We have what's left over after others purchased special consideration.
     
  10. DavidnRobin

    DavidnRobin TUG Member

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    Not sure what you mean that you shouldn't have to pay extra for something that you already paid for (?) - as it does not sound like you paid to have a fixed week/villa.

    The ability to fix the week/unit was offered to us during pre-construction (at a premium of 10%+10% - we declined). I would suggest that you carefully read the contract the you signed. I doubt that you will be able to invalidate the contract as, iirc, fixed weeks/units are covered in both the contract and/or OM (CCRs) that are tied to the contract, and these contracts are pretty much written to cover about everything that can be covered. Also - importantly - there is a clause in the contract (among many) that states anything told to you verbally by a salesperson is not enforcable (or something like that) unless stated in the contract.

    The Hammerhead section can no longer be requested (or so stated by SVO as discussed in a thread about HI requests). Also, I doubt all villas in the hammerhead section (or the end of the building that does not have a hammerhead) have been purchased via fixed weeks/villas and not open to those who just purchased a standard 2bd LO float villa. I am not positive about this, but doubt that many (1000s) would pay a 10% plus 10% premium to do so since they cannot even sel out WPORV after all of these years.

    SVO contracts state the ability the reserve a week is based on availability. Other than verbal spewl from the salesperson - villas at the ocean end of the buildings are not assured in any case when you buy a pure float week.
     
  11. GregT

    GregT TUG Member TUG Member

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    Marriott: Maui Ocean Club Lahaina Villas (3BRx5), Ko Olina, Shadow Ridge II, Willow Ridge, DC Points HGVC: HHV Lagoon, Flamingo, Sea World, I-Drive, Starwood Bella (x4), SDO, Aulani, Worldmark
    Please forgive my ignorance, but what is hammerhead? Thx!
     
  12. schubes

    schubes TUG Member

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    What I mean by not paying additional for what I already purchased is this: we purchased a floating week for any unit, any week. We were not offered a deal to buy a fixed unit or a fixed week. The only stipulation we were given was week 51 52 were not available to us unless we upgraded.

    We agreed to that stipulation. As far as the hammerhead, we fully understood that it was available first come first served based on timestamp and logistics. Never did anyone tell us that private parties could possibly take the premium weeks exclusively for the best units by buying them via an up charge.

    And yes, there are quite a few of these exclusive owners, one guy has 5 lockouts exclusively over the 4th of july and I know of another lady who has the same deal for one lockout and know her unit numbers. So therefore the selection of probable outstanding view units at the time of year that our family wants to vacation here has been reduced significantly no matter what my time stamp is from SVN. That no longer gives us the run of the resort views.

    So if that is ok with you, great. But it certainly diminishes the possible accommodations that I signed and paid for in a full resort of room possibilities in my floating high season week.

    And I certainly understand that you cannot request anything specific, but have had quite a few discussions with the GM over the past couple of years and I understand how this particular resort divvies up the room assignments. It is based on view and time stamp over the three check in days. If you pull put the hammerheads due to private ownership, the choice is diminished.

    Lucky for you that you were told about this in advance and are fine with it. I was not and am not particularly thrilled.
     
  13. YYJMSP

    YYJMSP TUG Member

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    This is one of the fundamental potential issues with timesharing.

    You have 52 owners of the same unit, all wanting to stay in say 26 more desirable weeks of the year.

    Right off the bat, half of the owner's are likely not going to get when they want, based on first-come first-served.

    Then knock off a bunch more of the prime holiday weeks for those who paid extra to fix their ownership to a more desirable week (very clearly stated as an option in the purchase contract), rather than float through the year. So even more owner's are likely not going to get when they want, based on first-come first served.

    Only thing you can do to increase the odds of you getting when you want is to book as early as possible (sometimes literally no later than 9AM at 12 months out for highly desirable weeks) and hope you're pretty high up in the first-come first served list.
     
  14. dss

    dss TUG Member

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    We were in WPORV a couple of weeks ago and thankfully got the Hammerhead Unit in building 7. Made the res 9am - 12 months out, etc... and this was when you could still make requests.

    Had a great trip, it really is a very well run resort, better staffed in many ways than WKORV (where we stayed directly after for a week).

    I wish there was a way to pay a premium to lock in a unit/view category there as I can't be held down to a specific week but would have happily paid a premium to lock in a hammerhead unit/view.
     
  15. LisaRex

    LisaRex TUG Member

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    The OPer was the 2nd caller to book that week, so he/she did book as early as possible.

    I understand her disappointment because I was really ticked when I saw what WKORV-N was trying to pass of as "ocean front." But I've since calmed down and learned to just enjoy it for what it is. Nothing else to do but beat your head against the wall.
     
  16. YYJMSP

    YYJMSP TUG Member

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    I think you have to pay the 10% to 30% premium to lock the week before you can pay the additional 10% premium to lock the unit.

    The WKORV (I assume WPORV is similar) docs say:

    Fixed Unit Use Right. If your Vacation Ownership Interest has a Fixed, Event or Ultra Premium Vacation Period, then it may have a Floating Use Right or a Fixed Unit Use Right. If it has a Fixed Unit Use Right then you will have the right to use your own Vacation Unit during Your Use Week.

    and

    UPGRADE OPTIONS:
    i. Fixed Vacation Period: Add 10% to the base price.
    ii. Ultra Premium Vacation Period: Add 30% to the base price.
    iii. Fixed Unit Use Right: Add another 10% to the base price [in addition to any amount added as items (i), (ii), or (iii)].
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2011
  17. YYJMSP

    YYJMSP TUG Member

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    We had the same issue with our Island View Deluxe unit, after we learned (on TUG) that almost 75% of those units did not have the pool/ocean view that we saw at time of purchase. Little did we know back then that half of them face the parking lot. :(

    But booking a year in advance made sure we were at the top of the list and got one of the units with the gorgeous views, which I felt was significantly better than the views from the Ocean View rooms we've gotten there using SOs.
     
  18. DavidnRobin

    DavidnRobin TUG Member

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    I agree with YYJMSP's post.

    Of the 3 SVO TS presentations (not Owners Update) I have attended - each time the ability to have a fixed week/villa (at a premium) has been brought up - and is also discussed in the OM. I am sorry you did not get asked this question, and therefore was not aware. Without the ability of 20-20 hindsight - would you have paid the extra 20+ percent? We did not because I did not want to get fixed into a specific week (which needs to be purchased before a fixed unit).

    Eventhough, some owners do own fixed weeks/villas - I would suspect (although I have no hard data) that most VOIs are owned as float - except for certain event weeks. I will be at WPORV Sept3 (but will unlikely attend the Owners Update), but will ask if I do. If I get put into the HH section - I will ask others in these sections. btw - one building does not have a HH section, but still great views. I posted a video (YouTube) on the view from the HH section from B7 during our 2009 trip. I hope we end up in a similar villa - it was fantastic (even w/o direct beach access).

    Since it is speculated that WPORV is only 70% sold - I am surprised that they would not be willing to sell (upgrade) you to a fixed week/villa.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2011
  19. schubes

    schubes TUG Member

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    From what I have been told, the fixed week/view buyers are usually during high vacation time like 7/4 spring break and the like. So if that is the time of year you like to vacation and you don't have the fixed view you can try like I did and get up at 3:00 am to call svo . This year I had the 2nd best stamp.

    Last night I called for next year and I moved my week out in hopes of a better chance. But it rubs me the wrong way that I have to change my desires unless I want to buy another unit with a fixed week eoy 33k. I already spent 50K to come here with the same chance as other 50k buyers for the best views.

    The sales staff was not wanting to discuss the view/week issue at all and acted surprised that there is a problem. They only miraculously came up with a fixed option for us the next day and breathlessly phoned us to say hurry ...it will sell fast and it is the last one.

    Btw, they said at the update they were 88% sold out and guarantee they will be done in 12 months. I am not sure but I think they were also selling bridges in Brooklyn.
     
  20. YYJMSP

    YYJMSP TUG Member

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    Problem is that there are owners who spent $60K to essentially get almost guaranteed priority over the $50K owners...
     
  21. DavidnRobin

    DavidnRobin TUG Member

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    It is a reality that during event weeks for resorts (such as WKORV, WKORVN, WPORV - and others?) - many VOIs are owned as fixed - and they charge a substantial premium to do so. This is listed in their pricing sheets - as well as discussed in the OM (and probably differentiated by contract). It is also stated that ability to reserve a week is dependent on availability. Not sure why a salesperson would not make you aware of this since they make more money selling a fixed week. If they told you that go ahead and buy float since you can get the best locations (perceived) even during event weeks - then that is a misrepresentation of the truth (and makes no logical sense). Regardless, in your contract it states that whatever they told you verbally is non-binding, and the contract essentially overrides verbal promises. {me -> not a lawyer...}

    sorry - it is what it is - we make do by maximizing the value in-hand.
    Plan 12 months ahead for VOIs, and 331 days ahead for flights (if possible).
    Do not travel during peak times unless you have to, then adapt to the consequences.
    Attain as many 'fuzzy' dollars ($/SP, $/SO) as possible - both intrinsic and extrinsic value.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2011
  22. jarta

    jarta TUG Member

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    David, ... " If they told you that go ahead and buy float since you can get the best locations (perceived) even during event weeks - then that is a misrepresentation of the truth (and makes no logical sense). "

    That's a big IF. I have been to many Starwood presentations. I have never been advised to buy float since I can still get the best locations even during event weeks. I have always been told about fixed weeks being sold for event weeks. It was often not stressed, but always mentioned. I have also always been told (didn't need to be for me to figure it out) that it is harder to get reservations during event weeks because of the fixed weeks. It made sense to me.

    But, I never paid the extra 20% to fix an event week. Nevertheless, whenever possible, I bought Platinum week 7 with the idea of a possible later fixing of the week. I do not know why people do not pay attention to the number of the week (float and sometimes even fixed) they are buying. Recently, I upgraded an ordinary EOY Platinum week at Lagunamar to a 5th floor EY Platinum OS (units 1 and 2 right on the beach) in week 7 - just in case I later decide I want to fix the week.

    I own 9 Starwood weeks (including 4 floating week 7 weeks) and have never had a problem getting a week I wanted at 8 months - except for Harborside (it's why I bought there) and WSJ. But, the economy has been bad now for a long time. One of the advantages of delinquent MFs is that owners have been locked out and their units (fixed and float) have become available for all SVN traders. I expect that to change as the economy and market recover and inventory remains relatively unchanged. ... eom
     
  23. DavidnRobin

    DavidnRobin TUG Member

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    I reread what I wrote - not sure how you misinterpret in quoting what I said... kindly.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2011
  24. YYJMSP

    YYJMSP TUG Member

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    Has anyone had success in fixing an existng float week just by paying the additional 20% of the original purchase price?

    Or has SVO tried to work the difference up to the current higher developer price in to the equation (i.e. pay the difference first, and then 20% on top of that)?
     
  25. tfalk

    tfalk Guest

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    You know, I've seen numerous references to "hammerhead" but it never made any sense to me. We've been at WPORV for a week and now I finally understand...

    We requested a room with the view of the most ocean.... To say they succeeded in filling our request would be an understatement... we got hammerhead alright! WHAT A VIEW!!! We can see all the way to the lighthouse, Annini Beach, etc... Unbelievable!
     

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