• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

woman loses 412,000 dollars to upfront fee timeshare resale scam

TUGBrian

Administrator
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
22,091
Reaction score
7,673
Points
1,099
Location
Florida

Fredflintstone

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2018
Messages
1,928
Reaction score
2,525
Points
324
Resorts Owned
Rent only
A fool and his money are soon parted.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

SteelerGal

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2019
Messages
1,758
Reaction score
835
Points
224
Resorts Owned
WKV, SDO, HPP, Bay Club
That has to be a typo.
 

jabberwocky

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2016
Messages
2,829
Reaction score
2,583
Points
348
Resorts Owned
SVR, SDO, WKORV-N, Westin Flex, HGVC (BLVD)
This is just sad...I'm amazed they didn't actually take it over after sucking so much out of her. Probably would have gotten away with it without any attention.
 

Grammarhero

Official TUGBBS Rescission Master
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2019
Messages
3,086
Reaction score
2,486
Points
399
Location
Washington, DC Area
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Grand Desert 77k, VV Williamsburg 4L/4 & 2/2
Former: Wyndham 276k, HGVC South Bend 1/1
What did she own that the resale was allegedly worth $212,000??
My best guess is that she spent $100k on timeshares, thought she could profit another $110k selling them, and got scammed big time.

The scam victim looks like she is very financially successful. With a RN, she runs a outpatient and inpatient Nursing Home bringing in $800k with five other employees. Her salary is likely $200k/yr. She likely pays her other five employees about $60k/yr (including fringe benefits) or about $300k/yr total. Rent and utilities for the inpatient nursing home are probably about $100k/yr year. Medical equipment leases and supplies are probably $200k/yr.

Inspiring that she was so successful with a RN. Sad that she blew a lot of her hard-earned money on pipe dreams.
 

Attachments

  • D245DF23-3DBE-49A8-8667-75DF5F0982F0.png
    D245DF23-3DBE-49A8-8667-75DF5F0982F0.png
    127.4 KB · Views: 99
  • 258280DF-B370-40FA-9D53-4A6785AD15DD.png
    258280DF-B370-40FA-9D53-4A6785AD15DD.png
    198.2 KB · Views: 79
  • 5A0A8480-2F24-4F6B-AAF7-786A48F2CEDA.png
    5A0A8480-2F24-4F6B-AAF7-786A48F2CEDA.png
    117.3 KB · Views: 88

Grammarhero

Official TUGBBS Rescission Master
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2019
Messages
3,086
Reaction score
2,486
Points
399
Location
Washington, DC Area
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Grand Desert 77k, VV Williamsburg 4L/4 & 2/2
Former: Wyndham 276k, HGVC South Bend 1/1
A fool and his money are soon parted.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Yes, she was being foolish and clearly trusted people she shouldn’t have.

It seems the PCc am exit scam companies are even worst than resort salespeople.
 

Grammarhero

Official TUGBBS Rescission Master
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2019
Messages
3,086
Reaction score
2,486
Points
399
Location
Washington, DC Area
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Grand Desert 77k, VV Williamsburg 4L/4 & 2/2
Former: Wyndham 276k, HGVC South Bend 1/1
What did she own that the resale was allegedly worth $212,000??
She probably had a $100k developer purchased timeshare. She bought into the lie that timeshares appreciate.
 

RX8

TUG Member
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
4,106
Reaction score
4,452
Points
449
Resorts Owned
HGVC and DVC
And this is why these scammers keep at it. If no one ever fell for the lies they wouldn't keep calling.
 

RX8

TUG Member
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
4,106
Reaction score
4,452
Points
449
Resorts Owned
HGVC and DVC

The article makes it sound as if some legit company took their money by stating "Complaints have been made against an international company based in Colorado" Tell it like it is! This completely bogus company, using a false address, stole over $400,000.

In looking at the corporation status in Colorado, this scammer did what I have previously reported with multiple previous scam companies. They "found" a corporation that had been dormant since 2003, paid just $100 to fraudulently file a reinstatement document with the state of CO and then used that identity to give victims a sense of comfort in thinking they were dealing with a company almost 20 years old. The fraudulent reinstatement was June 20, 2018 and the two websites created to go along with the scam were created June 22, 2018 and July 6, 2018.

The states of GA and CO must be very easy to file reinstatements because these are the two states that scammers seem to find old dormant corporations. The states need to better vet these requests other than just allowing scammers to do a cheap eFile reinstatement.

upload_2019-10-2_23-3-17.png
 
Last edited:

pedro47

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
22,068
Reaction score
8,532
Points
948
Location
East Coast
This cannot be a true story. How can someone be so stupid and paid more in a scam than they payed for their original timeshare contract. Sad story if this is a one true story.

Plus, how were these people able to obtain that can of money to pay for this scam.? Especially when banks are required to reports to the IRS on this large amount money transactions.

There is something wrong with this story. IMO.
 
Last edited:

TUGBrian

Administrator
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
22,091
Reaction score
7,673
Points
1,099
Location
Florida
some people say the same thing about folks who buy timeshares in the first place :(
 

Grammarhero

Official TUGBBS Rescission Master
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2019
Messages
3,086
Reaction score
2,486
Points
399
Location
Washington, DC Area
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Grand Desert 77k, VV Williamsburg 4L/4 & 2/2
Former: Wyndham 276k, HGVC South Bend 1/1
This cannot be a true story. How can someone be so stupid and paid more in a scam than they payed for their original timeshare contract. Sad story if this is a one true story.

Plus, how were these people able to obtain that can of money to pay for this scam.? Especially when banks are required to reports to the IRS on this large amount money transactions.

There is something wrong with this story. IMO.

I think it’s true. One woman lost $1 million in a romance scam, so such stupidity does happen. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...million-dollars-in-an-online-dating-scam.html

Plus, I checked the victim’s business profile, who likely makes at least $200k/yr, putting her in the top 2 percent of US wage earners.
 

Attachments

  • 768488AB-9DFF-416E-9D57-A4AC22A46111.png
    768488AB-9DFF-416E-9D57-A4AC22A46111.png
    118.5 KB · Views: 36

pedro47

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
22,068
Reaction score
8,532
Points
948
Location
East Coast
This story is strange because there is no mention of the family filing a police report or contacting any law enforcement agencies, the postal services or any banking institutions for assistance.
 

Grammarhero

Official TUGBBS Rescission Master
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2019
Messages
3,086
Reaction score
2,486
Points
399
Location
Washington, DC Area
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Grand Desert 77k, VV Williamsburg 4L/4 & 2/2
Former: Wyndham 276k, HGVC South Bend 1/1
This story is strange because there is no mention of the family filing a police report or contacting any law enforcement agencies, the postal services or any banking institutions for assistance.
It seems like they tried. However, the FBI or police rarely comment on investigations, unless they are over. Wouldn’t be surprised if FBI is involved.
 

rickandcindy23

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
31,892
Reaction score
8,998
Points
1,049
Location
The Centennial State
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Founder; Disney OKW & SSR; Marriott's Willow Ridge,Shadow Ridge,Grand Chateau;Val Chatelle; Hono Koa OF (3); SBR(LOTS), SDO a few; Grand Palms; WKORV-OF (2),Westin Desert Willow.
My best guess is that she spent $100k on timeshares, thought she could profit another $110k selling them, and got scammed big time.

The scam victim looks like she is very financially successful. With a RN, she runs a outpatient and inpatient Nursing Home bringing in $800k with five other employees. Her salary is likely $200k/yr. She likely pays her other five employees about $60k/yr (including fringe benefits) or about $300k/yr total. Rent and utilities for the inpatient nursing home are probably about $100k/yr year. Medical equipment leases and supplies are probably $200k/yr.

Inspiring that she was so successful with a RN. Sad that she blew a lot of her hard-earned money on pipe dreams.
Wow, you are making a lot of assumptions about this lady.

Anyway, I live in Denver and get these calls non-stop from these companies. I am so sick and tired of the calls. When I have my grandkids, I just answer and leave the phone off of the hook. I just want the phone to STOP RINGING.
 

LannyPC

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2010
Messages
4,777
Reaction score
2,406
Points
448
Location
British Columbia
I live in Denver and get these calls non-stop from these companies. I am so sick and tired of the calls.

Which companies? Is it the upfront fee resale scam companies? The cancel/relief/exit companies? The law firms that claim they are initiating a class-action lawsuit?
 

Grammarhero

Official TUGBBS Rescission Master
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2019
Messages
3,086
Reaction score
2,486
Points
399
Location
Washington, DC Area
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Grand Desert 77k, VV Williamsburg 4L/4 & 2/2
Former: Wyndham 276k, HGVC South Bend 1/1
Wow, you are making a lot of assumptions about this lady.

Anyway, I live in Denver and get these calls non-stop from these companies. I am so sick and tired of the calls. When I have my grandkids, I just answer and leave the phone off of the hook. I just want the phone to STOP RINGING.

Look at my screenshots, from which provide information I can guesstimate. Social scientists, reporters, or PIs do the same thing, that is guesstimates from some but incomplete information.
 
Last edited:

rickandcindy23

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
31,892
Reaction score
8,998
Points
1,049
Location
The Centennial State
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Founder; Disney OKW & SSR; Marriott's Willow Ridge,Shadow Ridge,Grand Chateau;Val Chatelle; Hono Koa OF (3); SBR(LOTS), SDO a few; Grand Palms; WKORV-OF (2),Westin Desert Willow.
Which companies? Is it the upfront fee resale scam companies? The cancel/relief/exit companies? The law firms that claim they are initiating a class-action lawsuit?
All of the above. Yes.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
16,115
Reaction score
8,063
Points
1,048
Location
Belly-View, WA
My best guess is that she spent $100k on timeshares, thought she could profit another $110k selling them, and got scammed big time.

The scam victim looks like she is very financially successful. With a RN, she runs a outpatient and inpatient Nursing Home bringing in $800k with five other employees. Her salary is likely $200k/yr. She likely pays her other five employees about $60k/yr (including fringe benefits) or about $300k/yr total. Rent and utilities for the inpatient nursing home are probably about $100k/yr year. Medical equipment leases and supplies are probably $200k/yr.

Inspiring that she was so successful with a RN. Sad that she blew a lot of her hard-earned money on pipe dreams.
The margins aren't quite as big as you suggest, though they are still there.

You aren't including employer payroll taxes, which are probably going to tack on another 10% or so on top of payroll. Then, depending on how the business is structured and operates (C Corp, S Corp, LLC) if she isn't on payroll she will also be paying Self-Employment tax, which is going to take about another 15% off of her income.

+++++

Then there will be other general costs. If they have a physical office, there is rent for the office. There are office support costs - admin staff, accounting, human resources. If those aren't done in house (with office staff) then those will need to be contracted out. Business liability insurance will also need to be paid. Since medical services is a high risk field, I would expect that liability insurance is going to be between 5% and 10% of gross revenue, depending on deductibles. (I'm a self-employed professional engineer operating in significantly lower risk areas, and I pay about 4%.)

Off the top of my head, I would expect it costs her a minimum of $50,000 per year to keep the doors open.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
16,115
Reaction score
8,063
Points
1,048
Location
Belly-View, WA
And this is why these scammers keep at it. If no one ever fell for the lies they wouldn't keep calling.
Correct. And one of the things that scammers do is try to craft their pitches to catch those who are most susceptible. There are some interesting observations on the internet about the Nigerian scammers and their fractured English - viz., the mangled English is deliberate because it screens out responses from a class of recipients who are not likely to fall for the scam.
 
Top