• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

[2017] Why NOT to make a voluntary ARDA financial contribution this year, with your maintenance fee payment

bobpark56

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
1,695
Reaction score
375
Points
444
Location
Gibsonia, PA (just north of Pittsburgh)
Resorts Owned
Westin Lagunamar, Westin Aventuras, Marriott Grande Vista, Sandos Caracol, Festiva, Diamond Resorts (Hawaii Collection)
Diamond Resorts International (DRI) bills include $7 for ARDA-ROC.
 

bazzap

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
4,441
Reaction score
1,253
Points
399
Location
Cirencester UK
I have been intrigued reading here about the ARDA-ROC voluntary payment.
Does it only show for US Resident owners?
As a European Resident owner, it neither shows on my invoices nor anywhere going all the way through the payment process.
I can only guess that I am not being asked to contribute?
I trust anyway that I am not being charged it involuntarily without it even being shown?
 

Cropman

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2016
Messages
157
Reaction score
65
Points
138
Location
Harrison, MI
Is the fee included with Disney? I just have my fees taken out of my checking account, so I never pay attention. I make sure to not pay them with Hyatt.
 

AlmostRetired

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2005
Messages
1,328
Reaction score
536
Points
474
Location
Long Island, NY
Resorts Owned
Grande Ocean Platinum, 2 x Grand Chateau 3 Bedroom (annual, EOY Odd)
I paid the fee for years never knowing what it was but believing that Marriott would not be collecting it if it wasn't beneficial. About 8 years ago my wife wrote out the check and asked me about the ARDA fee. Not knowing what it was and me not being able to explain it she didn't pay it. We have not paid it since. I am looking to see if I can find a Resort World of Orlando MF bill for a timeshare I owned from 1995 to 2015. I am curious to see if the fee was contained within the MF as a line item. In any case, the fee for my 3 Marriott units is $30 and I will not pay it.
 

WBP

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
662
Reaction score
341
Points
423
I paid the fee for years never knowing what it was but believing that Marriott would not be collecting it if it wasn't beneficial. About 8 years ago my wife wrote out the check and asked me about the ARDA fee. Not knowing what it was and me not being able to explain it she didn't pay it. We have not paid it since. I am looking to see if I can find a Resort World of Orlando MF bill for a timeshare I owned from 1995 to 2015. I am curious to see if the fee was contained within the MF as a line item. In any case, the fee for my 3 Marriott units is $30 and I will not pay it.

It's beneficial.......to Marriott, for sure. And, the more revenue that MVC brings into the ARDA-ROC, the more Marriott looks good to their developer colleagues, who sit on the ARDA-ROC.
 

TUGBrian

Administrator
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
22,165
Reaction score
7,755
Points
1,099
Location
Florida
one of the biggest shams in the industry is the "voluntary" fee...

if its voluntary...it should be required to check the box...not take effort to uncheck it.

owners would be better off taking that $4-7 dollars, and using it to discover TUG instead =)
 

tschwa2

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2008
Messages
16,018
Reaction score
4,680
Points
748
Location
Maryland
Resorts Owned
A few in S and VA, a single resort in NC, MD, PA, and UT, plus Jamaica and the Bahamas
I am confused, why do you need to have paid any fees (even estimated fees) already to book 2018 weeks?
I have booked many of my 2018 weeks, but I won't pay any MFs until Jan/Feb 2018 when they are due.
If you are a non SVN member who owns at Sheraton Broadway Plantation, you have to prepay your MF in order to make a reservation for the following use year. This only applies to SVN member weeks if they are depositing in II, not ones booking home resorts or even star option reservation. I don't believe it applies to other voluntary non SVN owners at other resorts. Just an annoying quirk for non SVN SBP owners.
 

Egret1986

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
4,021
Reaction score
560
Points
499
Location
Coastal Southeast Virginia
Is it mandatory? I didn't think it could ever be required but some bills make it look that way.

Not mandatory, but as you say, the DRI bills make it look that way. If you only pay the maintenance fee and not the ARDA fee, then you show a balance due on your account unless you make the effort to call and have the fee taken off your account. I'm sure the majority of folks just pay the full amount "due" most likely unknowingly or feeling it's not worth the hassle. It's very deceptive, like many of their practices. I'll make the effort to call DRI and have the "voluntary" fee taken off my account. There ought to be a regulation that they can't do this. Hey, ARDA or ARDA-ROC; want to help a timeshare owner out on this one? Yeah, I didn't think so. :(
 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
47,616
Reaction score
19,127
Points
1,299
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
I have been intrigued reading here about the ARDA-ROC voluntary payment.
Does it only show for US Resident owners?
As a European Resident owner, it neither shows on my invoices nor anywhere going all the way through the payment process.
I can only guess that I am not being asked to contribute?
I trust anyway that I am not being charged it involuntarily without it even being shown?
The ARDA-ROC is a political action committee that lobbies US lawmakers on behalf of owners, so they say. Since it is a political action committee, it would be illegal for them to collect this fee from foreign owners. So this is why you don't see it in Europe. I believe it was DRI that got in trouble a few years ago because they were adding it to all their bills and foreign owners were paying the fee which violates US finance laws since these PACs donate money to candidates.
 

WBP

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
662
Reaction score
341
Points
423
Not mandatory, but as you say, the DRI bills make it look that way. If you only pay the maintenance fee and not the ARDA fee, then you show a balance due on your account unless you make the effort to call and have the fee taken off your account. I'm sure the majority of folks just pay the full amount "due" most likely unknowingly or feeling it's not worth the hassle. It's very deceptive, like many of their practices. I'll make the effort to call DRI and have the "voluntary" fee taken off my account. There ought to be a regulation that they can't do this. Hey, ARDA or ARDA-ROC; want to help a timeshare owner out on this one? Yeah, I didn't think so. :(


You can expect ARDA and ARDA-ROC to support Diamond, and condone Diamond's behaviors and business practices.

Where there's smoke, there's fire.
 

bazzap

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
4,441
Reaction score
1,253
Points
399
Location
Cirencester UK
The ARDA-ROC is a political action committee that lobbies US lawmakers on behalf of owners, so they say. Since it is a political action committee, it would be illegal for them to collect this fee from foreign owners. So this is why you don't see it in Europe. I believe it was DRI that got in trouble a few years ago because they were adding it to all their bills and foreign owners were paying the fee which violates US finance laws since these PACs donate money to candidates.
Thank you for the clarification.
That is good to know.
 

BocaBoy

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2009
Messages
5,332
Reaction score
410
Points
368
Location
Wisconsin
Resorts Owned
Grand Chateau
I for one appreciate the ARDA-ROC lobbying efforts, especially on timeshare taxes. This group lobbies on issues where owners and developers have interests that coincide, which frankly are many. I am not saying that everyone should contribute (and I do not contribute $10 for every one of our units), but I am amused by the number of people who refuse to contribute based on assumptions, without understanding the issues that ARDA-ROC lobbies on. Many here do not even know the difference between ARDA and ARDA-ROC.
 

AlmostRetired

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2005
Messages
1,328
Reaction score
536
Points
474
Location
Long Island, NY
Resorts Owned
Grande Ocean Platinum, 2 x Grand Chateau 3 Bedroom (annual, EOY Odd)
I for one appreciate the ARDA-ROC lobbying efforts, especially on timeshare taxes. This group lobbies on issues where owners and developers have interests that coincide, which frankly are many. I am not saying that everyone should contribute (and I do not contribute $10 for every one of our units), but I am amused by the number of people who refuse to contribute based on assumptions, without understanding the issues that ARDA-ROC lobbies on. Many here do not even know the difference between ARDA and ARDA-ROC.

You may be 100 percent correct in that many people do not know what they do. As I posted above I paid for 15 years until I stopped because I do not know what they do. If a group is asking for contributions, should they provide information to contributors on what they accomplished and what they are working on. I have received zero information from them over 23 years. I would bet donuts to dollars developers are updated regularly on what is going on. If they have done good on my behalf, I am amazed they represent my interest and do good on my behalf but think so little of the need to reach out to me to continue a donation.
 

SueDonJ

Moderator
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
16,612
Reaction score
5,779
Points
1,249
Location
Massachusetts and Hilton Head Island
Resorts Owned
Marriott Barony Beach and SurfWatch
You may be 100 percent correct in that many people do not know what they do. As I posted above I paid for 15 years until I stopped because I do not know what they do. If a group is asking for contributions, should they provide information to contributors on what they accomplished and what they are working on. I have received zero information from them over 23 years. I would bet donuts to dollars developers are updated regularly on what is going on. If they have done good on my behalf, I am amazed they represent my interest and do good on my behalf but think so little of the need to reach out to me to continue a donation.

arda.org = the industry professionals' organization

ardaroc.org = the owners' organization

All the info you never knew you wanted. :)

I'm with Boca on this one despite understanding the objections of many to voluntary donations being a component of MF's invoices, and, the probability that ARDA-ROC's goals may well indeed complement ARDA's. Considering that as an owner I don't view MVW as an adversary but rather a supplier/manager of something I choose to own, it stands to reason that generally I am in favor of good collaboration between MVW and owners, which then extends naturally IMO to the same between ARDA and ARDA-ROC.

Has anyone stopped to consider that it may be required of the timeshare developers/managers to notify owners of the only well-established group that lobbies on behalf of owners (however limited that lobbying may be?) If that's the case, which wouldn't surprise me considering the remarkably negative attention that timeshares have always gotten and the constant push owners make to be legislatively protected, it makes perfect sense that the MF's packages are the perfect conduit. I think MVW does it right, delineating the suggested donation on the MF's invoices and making it opt-in rather than opt-out. If they weren't as transparent about that collection aspect, I would of course share the same negative views as owners of those different companies.
 

rickandcindy23

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
32,050
Reaction score
9,103
Points
1,049
Location
The Centennial State
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Founder; Disney OKW & SSR; Marriott's Willow Ridge and Shadow Ridge,Grand Chateau; Val Chatelle; Hono Koa OF (3); SBR(LOTS), SDO a few; Grand Palms(selling); WKORV-OF ,Westin Desert Willow.
I say let the naive owner pay that stupid fee. I will not pay a single dime to the organization, whose membership is still entirely timeshare developers. There is no distinguishing between the two, in my opinion. The same developers are on both boards of directors. They haven't asked any of you to be on the board of the ARDA-ROC, have they? Brian would be the perfect person to ask, or how about Denise M.?

These creeps are not looking out for you at all. What is good for sales is also good for the developer. So consider that both organizations, if you can even make an argument there are two separate organizations, are good for the developer. They can pat themselves on the back as much as they want.
 

SueDonJ

Moderator
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
16,612
Reaction score
5,779
Points
1,249
Location
Massachusetts and Hilton Head Island
Resorts Owned
Marriott Barony Beach and SurfWatch
I say let the naive owner pay that stupid fee. I will not pay a single dime to the organization, whose membership is still entirely timeshare developers. There is no distinguishing between the two, in my opinion. The same developers are on both boards of directors. They haven't asked any of you to be on the board of the ARDA-ROC, have they? Brian would be the perfect person to ask, or how about Denise M.?

These creeps are not looking out for you at all. What is good for sales is also good for the developer. So consider that both organizations, if you can even make an argument there are two separate organizations, are good for the developer. They can pat themselves on the back as much as they want.

Recently, last year or the year before, MVW included in the MF's package a one-sheet introduction to the ARDA-ROC representative for MVW owners. I don't remember all the details (and that piece of paper is now somewhere in all the moving boxes that haven't yet been unpacked) but I remember noting that he was neither a timeshare developer nor employed by a timeshare company. I haven't gotten any snail-mail MF's packages yet so I don't know if something similar is included this year.

I'm not trying to say that everyone should accept ARDA-ROC whole-heartedly or that everyone should pay the suggested donation to the group. But as Boca said, it's fairly obvious that TUGgers generally don't educate themselves about ARDA-ROC and Cindy, respectfully, I think you're wrong about the make-up of ARDA-ROC's membership and representatives.
 

TUGBrian

Administrator
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
22,165
Reaction score
7,755
Points
1,099
Location
Florida
Im still waiting for all the examples where ARDA ROC champions owners interests over developers interests?

Im still waiting for ARDAROC to make ANY sort of stand or champion a cause of combating illegal and immoral timeshare sales practices still active across their membership ranks

Im still waiting for ARDA ROC to even make a peep about its own "sister/brother/mom/whatever" entity ARDA continually accepting upfront fee resale scammers to their membership roster.


as an outfit that champions (and even uses in its name) the term "owner"...they are awfully quiet on the issues that actually impact owners every single day.

Fact is this outfit collects millions of dollars each year from owners, a hefty percentage of that from owners who have no idea its even being collected as part of their annual maintenance fees.

I suppose one could find a silver lining somewhere, but its within an extremely large storm cloud and not visible to the naked eye.
 

SueDonJ

Moderator
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
16,612
Reaction score
5,779
Points
1,249
Location
Massachusetts and Hilton Head Island
Resorts Owned
Marriott Barony Beach and SurfWatch
Im still waiting for all the examples where ARDA ROC champions owners interests over developers interests?

Im still waiting for ARDAROC to make ANY sort of stand or champion a cause of combating illegal and immoral timeshare sales practices still active across their membership ranks

Im still waiting for ARDA ROC to even make a peep about its own "sister/brother/mom/whatever" entity ARDA continually accepting upfront fee resale scammers to their membership roster.


as an outfit that champions (and even uses in its name) the term "owner"...they are awfully quiet on the issues that actually impact owners every single day.

Fact is this outfit collects millions of dollars each year from owners, a hefty percentage of that from owners who have no idea its even being collected as part of their annual maintenance fees.

I suppose one could find a silver lining somewhere, but its within an extremely large storm cloud and not visible to the naked eye.

I guess I don't understand why ARDA-ROC is considered to be contrary to owners if their views and actions are not ALWAYS in contrast to those of ARDA? If that's the benchmark then sure, you can say ARDA-ROC is fairly useless. As far as questionable companies being included among the membership ranks, there I agree with you that both ARDA and ARDA-ROC could do more to screen their membership and disallow the apparent fraudsters. But that inclusion doesn't reflect an automatic approval by ARDA-ROC of questionable practices (much like the acceptance of certain political operatives in party PACs doesn't always reflect total agreement with the party. ;) )

Take a quick look at the "Core State Issues" found by clicking the "Legislative Issues" tab on ardaroc.org for examples of what they're doing. According to the summaries only one of the four highlighted issues is jointly supported by ARDA and ARDA-ROC, but all four are/would be beneficial to owners. If you want to dig deeper there's historical content that plays out the same metrics.

No doubt ARDA-ROC can, and should, do more for owners. But the negativity towards it on TUG always surprises me considering that if we worked with them to make it better, the collective power of TUG users' knowledge born of experience and ARDA-ROC's influence could do us all a world of good.
 

JIMinNC

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,893
Reaction score
4,447
Points
599
Location
Marvin, NC (Charlotte) & Hilton Head Island, SC
Resorts Owned
Marriott:
Maui Ocean Club
Waiohai Beach Club
Barony Beach Club
Abound ClubPoints
HGVC:
HGVC at Sea World
Interesting discussion.

I've always opted to not pay the voluntary ARDA-ROC contribution since, as many here have said, I assumed they looked out only for the developer interests. But after reading this thread and checking out the ARDA-ROC website, I may reconsider that for my 2018 bills. Clearly, they are not going to tackle the issues mentioned by Brian that are against the business interests of the developers, but as BocaBoy and Susan have suggested, that doesn't mean that there are not issues where owner and developer interests align and where they provide us value. In those cases, ARDA-ROC does, in fact, support owner interests with their lobbying efforts in the state jurisdictions and in DC. They mention on their website issues like:
  • Attempts to impose state sales taxes on timeshares
  • Attempts to tax owners of timeshares as transient occupants (i.e. hotel guests)
  • Attempts by the IRS to tax timeshare homeowners associations' capital reserves (part of maintenance fee) as income
  • Attempts to tax annual assessment through a state food and beverage tax provision
In addition, they support legislation, like that recently passed in South Carolina, designed to address the deceptive business practices by fraudulent up-front fee companies in the secondary market. I have not read that bill, so I don't know if it really offers good consumer protections, but at least conceptually, it sounds like they are doing some good work that might be worthy of a few bucks a year.

These are all issues where owner interests and developer interests align, so why not support those efforts? Just because they don't fight for owners against the developers, that doesn't mean they can't offer a worthwhile service by fighting for owner and developer interests in the state capitals and in Washington, DC.
 

Dean

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
9,967
Reaction score
3,618
Points
648
I guess I don't understand why ARDA-ROC is considered to be contrary to owners if their views and actions are not ALWAYS in contrast to those of ARDA? If that's the benchmark then sure, you can say ARDA-ROC is fairly useless. As far as questionable companies being included among the membership ranks, there I agree with you that both ARDA and ARDA-ROC could do more to screen their membership and disallow the apparent fraudsters. But that inclusion doesn't reflect an automatic approval by ARDA-ROC of questionable practices (much like the acceptance of certain political operatives in party PACs doesn't always reflect total agreement with the party. ;) )

Take a quick look at the "Core State Issues" found by clicking the "Legislative Issues" tab on ardaroc.org for examples of what they're doing. According to the summaries only one of the four highlighted issues is jointly supported by ARDA and ARDA-ROC, but all four are/would be beneficial to owners. If you want to dig deeper there's historical content that plays out the same metrics.

No doubt ARDA-ROC can, and should, do more for owners. But the negativity towards it on TUG always surprises me considering that if we worked with them to make it better, the collective power of TUG users' knowledge born of experience and ARDA-ROC's influence could do us all a world of good.
As I've said previously, there are things they do that clearly benefit owners but in general, these are things that also benefit developers/management companies and the benefit for owners is done vicariously. They may or may not be a benign dictator but saying ARDA is for the timeshare owner is basically the same statement as saying Steve Weisz (Marriott), Ken Potrock (DVC) (etc) are for the timeshare owner. They are but only up to a point. When I see clear efforts on their part that would pit them against the developer/management company (including their own) and in favor of the members, that's when I'll be a believer. IMO a donation to ARDA is a donation for lobbying to benefit those timeshares companies which may or may not benefit the individual owner.
 

AlmostRetired

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2005
Messages
1,328
Reaction score
536
Points
474
Location
Long Island, NY
Resorts Owned
Grande Ocean Platinum, 2 x Grand Chateau 3 Bedroom (annual, EOY Odd)
I am not sure I agree that one must do research when being asked for a donation unless it beyond what is provided. Especially if the request is every year. When I get solicited at home for donation by a non profit organization, the first questioned asked is what percent collected goes to administration costs. They are required by law to provide the accurate information. Non profit can mean large salaries and padded overhead. I am amazed when I hear that administrative costs are more than 25%. I get responses of costs being 85% of contributions to zero. Can anyone tell me this information for ARDA-ROC. In case not, I did send an email requesting it.
 

TUGBrian

Administrator
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
22,165
Reaction score
7,755
Points
1,099
Location
Florida
as mentioned above, when developer and owner interests align...ARDAROC gets involved...sometimes.

ARDAROC will never champion any cause that pits them against developers for the benefit of owners...and thus why owners should think twice before making their donation.

both ARDA and ARDAROC are fully aware of the deceptive and sleazy sales practices done by its own members.

both ARDA and ARDAROC are fully aware of the scams that plague the resale market, many of which by their own members

These two major issues that impact 100% of timeshare owners have been issues for DECADES, literally longer than either organization has been in existence. There is simply zero excuse for this from an outfit that claims to represent owners.

the only voice an owner has within ARDA or ARDAROC is your "voluntary" contribution with your maintenance fees. if you feel that the work they do is worth that annual contribution, so be it. those that do not and wish they would actually focus on the real issues that beleaguer all owners, should withhold this donation.
 
Last edited:

Dean

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
9,967
Reaction score
3,618
Points
648
I am not sure I agree that one must do research when being asked for a donation unless it beyond what is provided. Especially if the request is every year. When I get solicited at home for donation by a non profit organization, the first questioned asked is what percent collected goes to administration costs. They are required by law to provide the accurate information. Non profit can mean large salaries and padded overhead. I am amazed when I hear that administrative costs are more than 25%. I get responses of costs being 85% of contributions to zero. Can anyone tell me this information for ARDA-ROC. In case not, I did send an email requesting it.
While sort of the same thing, the other thing I ask is whether the person contacting me is a volunteer, works for the company or is a paid solicitor. Another issue for some companies is that there is a double layer of admin costs, ie United Way. And lastly, most of the pass through organizations fund things against my ethics, UW again comes to mind. OTOH, UW funds things that could not do the fund raising themselves plus there is a considerable amount of community pressure that falls onto owners/directors of companies within a community related to UW and thus is passed on to their employees.
 

ecwinch

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,731
Reaction score
1,119
Points
748
Location
San Antonio
Resorts Owned
Marriott Harbour Point (HP), Kauai Beach Villas, Riverside Suites, WorldMark Pts (WM), Wyndham Pts
Unfortunately the ARDA is the only hope - albeit small one - of stopping/slowing the growing trend of applying Transient Occupancy Taxes (TOT) to timeshares - i.e. CA, OR, WA, USVI, etc.
 
Top