Why are time shares a scam??

[Luvtoride]

WV Baker...LOL. We all make our own decisions with or without the best advice and information available. I think the feeling "scammed" part comes from whether the item we spent the money on is useful/ enjoyable for us. In almost every business transaction survey I get these days, not only does it ask me to rate the quality of the product/ service but also to rate the VALUE for the price paid! I think that's the Key factor for most of us now.

 

[Gypsy65]

This whole thread was started with the question as to why TS are a scam
Many interesting takes on what each of us feel is or define a scam as

Maybe a better term would be taken advantage of rather than scam??
Sorta like the car thing again. The best time to buy a car is when you don’t need one. Why? Because you will do your research and buy what fits the bill

If your car dies and now today you need one. That salesperson has all the power. You need what he is selling and you are weak because you know that also

TS salespeople are showing you that you need or want what they have, some are better and sell the lifestyle and how it could benefit you. nonetheless in 90 minutes you buy on emotion which is weak all without thinking about your finances or even if you are able to vacation every year in the first place

If there were no pissed of owners taking losses just to get out then the market value of TS would go up and the value of what we all own would hold as there would be no cheap secondary markets available

 

[4Sunsets]

For those who think it's okay to be obscene and/or extremely rude: You do realize of course that THOUSANDS of people have spent that kind of money on MVC? Have you ever met or talked with Hawaii owners who purchased retail? Or any RC fractional owners? ALL of these people spent that much on TS and there are THOUSANDS of them. You really need to get more experience with the entire market before you make blanket statements like that.

 

[Gypsy65]

I don’t think anyone who has $$$$ like you say who spent it on TS deserves any sympathy

I do believe there are those who have spent thousands and thousands ( 1/2 million as YOU say )
That’s not my argument

Mine is. That ANYONE who spent that kind of money on a whim and on a TS that now has regrets needs a major head exam

I do believe some of those bought $$$ and use it and enjoy it

But again. If you or anyone else has and after the fact has a complaint. Then they deserve it and should mosey on through life making poor decisions so the rest of the thinking world can learn

I myself own a lot with HICV. Million points and I spent $$ on it. Some developer and some eBay. In the end I feel I bought the amount I wanted for a better price than many and yet someone else I know has about the same and I know they got a better deal than I. Simply because they did a little more research than I did

I’m not bitter or upset with him for getting a better deal. He knew. Nor am I bitter or upset with the resort for letting me buy what I did as “ I knew “

 

[LannyPC]

They put the pressure on you to make a decision and the fear is that if you don’t buy, you will lose out on the great deal.

Bingo! And they make it look/sound like if you don't jump at this great deal right away, someone else with a lot of common sense will scoop it up right after you leaving you kicking yourself for not nabbing this great deal.

 

[Gypsy65]

Bingo! And they make it look/sound like if you don't jump at this great deal right away, someone else with a lot of common sense will scoop it up right after you leaving you kicking yourself for not nabbing this great deal.

Agree
But they do that at the County and State fairs as well

I think the “ once in a lifetime “ sell has been going on since the original snake was talking to that woman many many years ago and it appears we as a species have learned next to nothing about this tactic

 

[WVBaker]

Bingo! And they make it look/sound like if you don't jump at this great deal right away, someone else with a lot of common sense will scoop it up right after you leaving you kicking yourself for not nabbing this great deal.

This is a debate that has been going on and will continue, as long as there are services and products to sell, individuals to sell them to, and people who sell them.

The fact remains that we all make choices in life. Some we're happy we've made and some we later come to realize were just plain stupid. As the saying goes, that's life. Like many, I have made poor buying decisions that I later regret however, the onus was mine and mine alone to understand any and all ramifications of the purchase, not the sellers to educate me. Their job is to sell timeshares, not explain any and all the consequences of owning one.

Push comes to shove, these people are all adults and are free to stay or free to leave. Caveat emptor.

 

[OldGuy]

scam
noun
\ ˈskam \
: a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation
- - - - - -
sleaze
/slēz/
noun
immoral, sordid, and corrupt behavior or material, especially in business or politics.
- - - - - -
dis·hon·est
/disˈänəst/
adjective
1. behaving or prone to behave in an untrustworthy or fraudulent way
2. intended to mislead or cheat
- - - - - -
de·cep·tive
/dəˈseptiv/
adjective
1. giving an appearance or impression different from the true one; misleading.
- - - - -
high-pressure
involving a high degree of persuasion.
"high-pressure sales techniques"
involving a great deal of anxiety or stress
- - - - - -
Misrepresentation
/ˌmisreprəzenˈtāSH(ə)n/
the action or offense of giving a false or misleading account of the nature of something.

 

[Gypsy65]

scam
noun
\ ˈskam \
: a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation
- - - - - -
sleaze
/slēz/
noun
immoral, sordid, and corrupt behavior or material, especially in business or politics.
- - - - - -
dis·hon·est
/disˈänəst/
adjective
1. behaving or prone to behave in an untrustworthy or fraudulent way
2. intended to mislead or cheat
- - - - - -
de·cep·tive
/dəˈseptiv/
adjective
1. giving an appearance or impression different from the true one; misleading.
- - - - -
high-pressure
involving a high degree of persuasion.
"high-pressure sales techniques"
involving a great deal of anxiety or stress
- - - - - -
Misrepresentation
/ˌmisreprəzenˈtāSH(ə)n/
the action or offense of giving a false or misleading account of the nature of something.

Yes. Those are all definitions of each preceding word

But no where in any of those listed did I read “ to use blunt force “ or the “ use of a weapon “ i.e. pistol or bat etc.

What I did read, and this was between the lines. That said victim of any of the above had the right to leave on their own free will.

Did they have the ability? Questionable and not because they were kidnapped but rather their eyes were glowing with a vacation and life they didn’t or couldn’t live in the first place

 

[OldGuy]

 

[WVBaker]

The voices of cold reason have been talking, as usual, to deaf ears.

 

[OldGuy]

Yeah, it's frustrating, but I keep trying to state the obvious, what the general public and dissatisfied owners think of the industry.

 

[bogey21]

I know this is not possible and maybe even not desirable for some but if TimeShares purchases from Developers could only be paid for with cash, I think there would be a lot less dissatisfaction and second guessing oneself...

George

 

[OldGuy]

I know this is not possible and maybe even not desirable for some but if TimeShares purchases from Developers could only be paid for with cash, I think there would be a lot less dissatisfaction and second guessing oneself...

George

Yeah, cuz there would be no sales.

 

[OldGuy]

Interesting and timely, I was just reading the current issue of my business college's alumni publication, and . . . they have developed and are now requiring a course in business ethics for all undergraduates. There was already a required ethics course in the Philosophy department, but this one was developed especially for ethics in business. They noted how many newer, successful companies are ethics-driven.

Business and business education are a lot more complicated than when I was a student.

Yeah, ethics, that's the ticket.

That's what there could be more of.

 

[OldGuy]

Yeah, ethics, that's the ticket.

That's what there could be more of.

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/cancelling-a-westgate-timeshare-merged.208087/

 

[OldGuy]

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...cv-orange-lake-country-club-timeshare.271091/

 

[OldGuy]

well uh ok

I was picturing OLCC, where prospects park, go into the sales building, then get hauled off to another area, away from their cars. It's not like they can just leave when they want to.

Having been in direct sales for ten years, although that's not a requisite for understanding what's going on, I know the timeshare sales process is designed to break down the prospects' free will. It's all on the side of the seller.

Just to show I kid you not, here's Orange Lake, and I've noted the sales center:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/O...6f883598df8d01!8m2!3d28.3553013!4d-81.6118459

You can zoom in and out, or whatever, and see the HUGE parking lot there, and there is no other part of the resort even close.

So, prospects go in, get matched up, chit-chat to break the ice (Pretalk in the direct selling game), and then are loaded onto a golf-cart-type vehicle, and they head off to the hinterlands . . . River Island, East Village, North Village, West Village.

They may not be legally kidnapped, but they are captive . . . until their tour guide releases them, four hours later. By then, their kids at the motel have put out a BOLO for them.

No need to post links to reviews of the tour, cuz y'all know what they say.

I posted the above in response to someone saying anyone could just walk away from a sales presentation any time they want.

Well, sometimes they can't and that's not unintentional.

Since we've talked about Stormy Point Village a little bit recently, so here's another example. Prospects check in at the "Capitol" (formerly Suumerwinds) tour center. Then, a mini-bus take them 4.9 miles to Stormy Point Village. I don't know the mini-bus tour, but prospect can't just walk out of a tour and leave.

Right next door, at Nantucket, their tour Welcome Center also is not at the resort. If prospects want to walk 1.1 miles up a hill, I guess they could leave any time they want.

 

[WVBaker]

Okay Cap., I'll bite.

Not knowing anything about this "tour center" or "Stormy Point Village" tell me this.

Is this "tour" prior to being able able to check into their rooms? In other words, they are required and must enter this "tour center" as they arrive. No ifs ands or buts.

Upon arriving at this "tour center", are they required to enter the structure or building and be seated? They will and must stay for any sales presentation. There is to be no lingering, loitering or relaxing outside of this building or structure?

To me, this sounds as though these people are being held hostage.

 

[Gypsy65]

If you agree to a presentation then you owe the resort that. Period. After all you do want your free toy right?

The two you mentioned and I assume there are others set up like that cannot hold you against your will.

Not in the USA anyways

I would bet a pretty good sum that if you said nothing to the salesperson for the entire 90 minutes that you’d get your free toy and be on your way

The big reason the sales pitch goes on and on is people ask that person questions about the fees. Resort. Etc

Once you do that. Of course they’re going to reel you all the way in. That’s their livelihood like it or not

Again. I’d bet $$$$$ that if you said absolutely nothing that you’d be out in the 90 minutes. Heck they’d probably let you out of class early

 

[easyrider]

I doubt that anyone thought timeshares were a scam until Al invented the internet. Everything was easier to sell pre-internet. In fact, many people thought the internet was a scam back then.

For most people that purchase timeshares the purchase was a known luxury item. These were not bought from the developer to sell or rent but to use. The people that can afford this product rarely complain and usually boast a bit. The people that can not afford these products complain constantly about everything.

Every one that attends a timeshare presentation knows that they sell timeshares at these presentations. What triggers the sale ? Obviously it is professional marketing. Most people fall under one of three types of buyers and the questions asked at the presentation warm up usually reveal this.

Are timeshares a scam. No, imo. They are just another product that many people enjoy and use for the intrinsic vacation value that timeshares provide.

Dose the ability to resell this product make timeshares a scam ? No, imo. Timeshares are not sold to resell. They are sold to use.

Why would anyone purchase a timeshare from the developer when they can purchase a timeshare resale ? For most people, the reason is that they can afford to purchase a timeshare and they want the product.

Bill

 

[moonstone]

If you agree to a presentation then you owe the resort that. Period. After all you do want your free toy right?
The two you mentioned and I assume there are others set up like that cannot hold you against your will.
Not in the USA anyways
I would bet a pretty good sum that if you said nothing to the salesperson for the entire 90 minutes that you’d get your free toy and be on your way
The big reason the sales pitch goes on and on is people ask that person questions about the fees. Resort. Etc
Once you do that. Of course they’re going to reel you all the way in. That’s their livelihood like it or not
Again. I’d bet $$$$$ that if you said absolutely nothing that you’d be out in the 90 minutes. Heck they’d probably let you out of class early

If & when we attend a presentation we confirm right at the start how long the presentation will take. I then set the alarm on my phone for that time and tell the sales person we have no intention on buying but will fulfill our end of the deal by staying the required amount of time. We don't ask any questions but sometimes I do have printouts of recent resale prices which usually gets us out of the presentation early. We attended a presentation in Florida last year where the sales person wanted to take us in their car off site to the new models. We politely told him that we do not ride in stranger's cars and we would follow in our car, which we did. When the alarm rang we didn't have to depend on the sales person to take us back to the car and the closer just sent us over to gifting with no further hassles.


~Diane

 

[LannyPC]

Why would anyone purchase a timeshare from the developer when they can purchase a timeshare resale ?

I think the better question would be Why would anyone purchase a timeshare from the developer, period? Or, why would anyone pay $15,000, or so, with money he does not have, for a product he knows little about after "learning" about it for only a couple of hours or so? The answer basically lies in the sales tactics that we discuss here on TUG ad nauseum.

And a person who purchases from the developer likely knows little or nothing about resale.

 

[easyrider]

I think the better question would be Why would anyone purchase a timeshare from the developer, period? Or, why would anyone pay $15,000, or so, with money he does not have, for a product he knows little about after "learning" about it for only a couple of hours or so? The answer basically lies in the sales tactics that we discuss here on TUG ad nauseum.

And a person who purchases from the developer likely knows little or nothing about resale.

I agree that when a person does know about resale or selling they would not buy a timeshare for $20,000 when they could buy it for $1. This doesn't make timeshares a scam, imo. Timeshares are a luxury product sold purposely for vacation use, not flipping. The person that can not afford a luxury item should not be purchasing a timeshare and when they do there are often problems for them. Most people that purchase timeshares can afford the product and are happy with their purchase.

The truth is that any person going to a timeshare sales presentation knows that they are willfully going to a presentation to be sold a timeshare. No one wants to buy this timeshare, it has to be sold in the same way other expensive products are sold. Just by attending the presentation to learn about the product the client has willfully let the sales staff overcome the first objection.

Would purchasing a funeral when it is needed be considered a scam ? No one really knows what a funeral cost but in their emotional state they often purchase very expensive services.

Another example would be medical care. Most of us don't really know what we paid for when the bills come in. This isn't considered a scam.

Bill