Why are time shares a scam??

[OldGuy]

It is everywhere on TUG. Mostly anger toward developers for being “greedy” and “corporations out to make a profit.” Things like that are pretty common on TUG. Almost daily if not more. I can’t believe there are greedy corporations trying to make their business as profitable as possible! I thought USA was moving away from capitalism. Maybe it is time for the government to own the developers so the rich can subsidize the poor on vacation. No more MFs just income-adjusted usage fees.

Back in the day we just called that nickel and diming.

What I was trying to say, and I admit I do not always say what I am trying to say, is that I get a lot of flack for my position on things, that of wanting to do my best to clean up things that make timesharing undesirable for the masses, and I look at where those critical of me own, and I take a look at those places, and I see $1200, $1500, $2000 maintenance fees, and I figure if prominent people on TUG are paying fees like that, and everything is hunky dory with them and their timeshares, then there's not much complaining going on.

Those folks are in a whole different world than we would ever be, so it's hard to have a level discussion.

What I really wonder, and this is carried over from another thread, is what, exactly, are they afraid of when it comes to resorts offering a deedback program?

 

[Fredflintstone]

Back in the day we just called that nickel and diming.

What I was trying to say, and I admit I do not always say what I am trying to say, is that I get a lot of flack for my position on things, that of wanting to do my best to clean up things that make timesharing undesirable for the masses, and I look at where those critical of me own, and I take a look at those places, and I see $1200, $1500, $2000 maintenance fees, and I figure if prominent people on TUG are paying fees like that, and everything is hunky dory with them and their timeshares, then there's not much complaining going on.

Those folks are in a whole different world than we would ever be, so it's hard to have a level discussion.

What I really wonder, and this is carried over from another thread, is what, exactly, are they afraid of when it comes to resorts offering a deedback program?

I think the bottom line is

YOU sign up for it!

Regardless of how you feel now, the full contract ready and eager for you to sign and initial 100 plus items agreeing to the terms puts you in “meeting of the minds” as the law puts it.

All the contracts I have read state:

1. The resorts reserves the right to change any term at anytime for any reason....initial here
2. Maintenance fees are required on a yearly basis and these fees can change at anytime...initial here
3. The resort reserves the right to charge special assessments at anytime for any reason. Initial here.
4. The resorts can charge added fees it deems fit at anytime. Initial here.

No one puts a gun to your head to sign. You can get up and walk.

So why complain. You agreed to it.

If they are “greedy” in your opinion, it really doesn’t matter because you agreed to it.

That’s why it’s not a scam. The contract discloses everything. Many states also require a public report which also clearly outlines how the resort is governed. The documents are public record and available. Many states require you to sign that you have read,understood and agree to the public report to boot.

If you don’t read it, that’s your fault. Plan and simple.

If you sign it and don’t know what you are signing that’s your fault too.

All you can do is sell if you want out.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Gypsy65]

Back in the day we just called that nickel and diming.

What I was trying to say, and I admit I do not always say what I am trying to say, is that I get a lot of flack for my position on things, that of wanting to do my best to clean up things that make timesharing undesirable for the masses, and I look at where those critical of me own, and I take a look at those places, and I see $1200, $1500, $2000 maintenance fees, and I figure if prominent people on TUG are paying fees like that, and everything is hunky dory with them and their timeshares, then there's not much complaining going on.

Those folks are in a whole different world than we would ever be, so it's hard to have a level discussion.

What I really wonder, and this is carried over from another thread, is what, exactly, are they afraid of when it comes to resorts offering a deedback program?

Maybe I’m missing your point
Are you asking why resorts don’t have a deedback program??

I’m not defending the resorts in any way but
Why should they refund and take a deed back?
The resorts owe you the buyer a refund as much as a $1000 per meal restaurant owes you a refund after you already had dinner.
If you notice on the menu that the meals are $1000 and you have $5. Don’t go in

Most people should NEVER buy timeshare. Most people cannot afford timeshares and it’s those people for the most part that complain the loudest

The masses as you say

I for one pay way more on my timeshare than any motel 6 would ever cost me but if I knew I would die tomorrow I wouldn’t look back and say “ I wish I hadn’t done that “
Pretty sure I would be saying “ I wish I had done more of that “
Screw job or not. I’m a big boy and don’t need the developers or the government to hold my hand and bail me out every time I make a bad mistake

Look at many wealthy people. Most all made horrible decisions but stood up, learned from them, and went on to give it another shot. Eventually making good decisions that paid off

My monies on the pony that bought timeshares and got ripped off that they’ll never do it twice!!

Again. Maybe I misunderstood your post. If so then so be it

 

[OldGuy]

Because, simply, none of that (forcing people to continue timeshare servitude) makes timesharing more desirable with the general public, and just increases dissatisfaction and animosity toward the resort and the industry.

Why would a business intentionally conduct itself in a manner that makes people dislike them?

Why, exactly, are those opposed to deedbacks afraid of deedbacks?

As timeshare-lovers, why not just hang with other timeshare-lovers, and let those who want to leave, leave, with a fair price to the resort?

 

[OldGuy]

Pardon me, but screw the 25 page contract. Life is full of stuff we scroll, and click that we agree to, accept, but never read.

If an owner said, "I paid all of that $25,000 at the beginning. I've been giving you $1000 m/l every year since. You've given me a week's vacation every year. We're even. You keep the $25,000. I'll give you another $1000, and let's call it quits."

That's what I'm trying to figure out why people are afraid of allowing.

 

[Fredflintstone]

Pardon me, but screw the 25 page contract. Life is full of stuff we scroll, and click that we agree to, accept, but never read.

If an owner said, "I paid all of that $25,000 at the beginning. I've been giving you $1000 m/l every year since. You've given me a week's vacation every year. We're even. You keep the $25,000. I'll give you another $1000, and let's call it quits."

That's what I'm trying to figure out people are afraid of allowing.

Yes, I see your deed back question. Getting out for a k can be a good deal. I think people prefer to whine then get out and move on. It’s nice to be portrayed as a victim. If they made a mistake, the deed backs are a solution that people don’t take because they are too stuck in victim mode.

I personally never sign, click or do anything without reading it. If I don’t agree, I walk. Again, my fault if I don’t.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[OldGuy]

I guess in real life a lot of people are not as conscientious, thoughtful, financially responsible, forthright, honest, above-board, and, in general, all-round superior, as folks on TUG.

But, even being that, and even reading every word, and even being 100% committed to it, stuff happens.

So, what is it that those who are opposed to deedbacks are afraid of?

(Still looking for an answer.)

 

[Fredflintstone]

I guess in real life a lot of people are not as conscientious, thoughtful, financially responsible, forthright, honest, above-board, and, in general, all-round superior, as folks on TUG.

But, even being that, and even reading every word, and even being 100% committed to it, stuff happens.

So, what is it that those who are opposed to deedbacks are afraid of?

(Still looking for an answer.)

I think you are looking for a certain answer. One plausible reason or answer was provided.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[OldGuy]

What I think I saw was an opinion as to why some people would not take advantage of an offer of a deedback, because they like to whine and play the victim. Is that what you mean?

What I'm trying to find out is why owners would object to their resort offering deedbacks, say as I laid out four posts above?

 

[Fredflintstone]

What I think I saw was an opinion as to why some people would not take advantage of an offer of a deedback, because they like to whine and play the victim. Is that what you mean?

What I'm trying to find out is why owners would object to their resort offering deedbacks, say as I laid out four posts above?

Yes, that’s what I mean.

People complain all the time about different things but when you tell them to do something about it they do nothing to fix the problem. If they fix the problem, they have nothing to complain about.

Why?

Because they just want to whine or vent. It’s human nature.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Fredflintstone]

Yes, that’s what I mean.

People complain all the time about different things but when you tell them to do something about it they do nothing to fix the problem. If they fix the problem, they can’t complain anymore.

Why?

Because they just want to whine or vent. It’s human nature.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[OldGuy]

That does not answer why owners are opposed to their resort offering deedbacks.

Anyone else . . . have an answer for that?

 

[Fredflintstone]

That does not answer why owners are opposed to their resort offering deedbacks.

Fear has nothing to do with this. They whine over paying to give it back. They whine over the rising costs, etc....

They refuse to pay to give the thing back because they feel they have lost enough money. They see it as a never ending money pit. It’s not fear but anger over the way things are and getting their back up over paying some fee to give it back. So, they do nothing but whine.


So your question is better phrase as

Why don’t people use the resort deedback program?

Then you have your answer.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Fredflintstone]

If the deedback was free, the opposition would be way less.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Fredflintstone]

Lastly, when you feel ripped off, financially raped and taken advantage of, you are very resistant to pay anymore even it paying the fee stops the bleeding.

I am sure in life you had a situation where you felt cheated and you refused to give one dime more to “those crooks” (as you perceive it)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Fredflintstone]

People hate loss. That’s why many would rather watch a bad stock pick go to zero than sell and take a hit....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Fredflintstone]

People are notoriously irrational when money is involved. Deedback is the rational solution but you can’t get people to budge when they are angry and have their back up. Their judgement is clouded by anger and a sense of loss already.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[OldGuy]

I keep asking why owners do not want their resort to offer deedbacks, and you keep giving your opinion as to why people who want out of their timeshares (not the other owners I'm asking about) do not use deedbacks, so I'll quit trying to find out why owners do not want their resorts to offer deedbacks.

I'll go put it in a different thread, where it belongs.

 

[Gypsy65]

I keep asking why owners do not want their resort to offer deedbacks, and you keep giving your opinion as to why people who want out of their timeshares (not the other owners I'm asking about) do not use deedbacks, so I'll quit trying to find out why owners do not want their resorts to offer deedbacks.

I'll go put it in a different thread, where it belongs.

No kidding

You posted the question as to why this thread was even started. Yet you have posted the most!!

 

[TravelTime]

As an owner, I would only want a deedback program if it benefits owners. I do not want to subsidize people who are financial losers and do not know how to use their programs or do not want to pay MFs anymore. I like the Marriott does buy back points and properties to put in the trust when it makes economic sense.

 

[OldGuy]

As an owner, I would only want a deedback program if it benefits owners. I do not want to subsidize people who are financial losers and do not know how to use their programs or do not want to pay MFs anymore. I like the Marriott does buy back points and properties to put in the trust when it makes economic sense.

Here's the way I presented it up yonder:

If an owner said, "I paid all of that $25,000 at the beginning. I've been giving you $1000 m/l every year since. You've given me a week's vacation every year. We're even. You keep the $25,000. I'll give you another $1000, and let's call it quits."

Would you be opposed to that?

 

[OldGuy]

By the way, the concept of timeshare is legitimate and clever, a real business.

It's one of those things that you just have to wonder how it came about.

I'm picturing a small group with several 6-packs of Old Milwaukee. At some point, someone said, "Let's build and sell condos. We could get $100,000 for each one." Then, someone said, "What if we could sell a condo in 50 one-week pieces for $25,000 each. We could get (pulling the pocket calculator out of their vest pocket) . . . . $1,250,000!"

Of course, someone who was still sober said, "That'll never happen."

Seriously, a college friend of mine developed the concept that became Hooters, and it wasn't all that much different than that scenario.

 

[geist1223]

We know a lot of people think timeshares are a scam. But then maybe they do not understand how to use them. We know we would not have traveled to all the places we have over that last 16.5 years without timeshares.

 

[TravelTime]

Here's the way I presented it up yonder:

If an owner said, "I paid all of that $25,000 at the beginning. I've been giving you $1000 m/l every year since. You've given me a week's vacation every year. We're even. You keep the $25,000. I'll give you another $1000, and let's call it quits."

Would you be opposed to that?

Maybe that would be okay, assuming it benefits the current owners. Otherwise, I think people need to keep their commitments or find their own way out. That would be like in 2008-2012 when homeowners were just walking away from mortgages because they could not afford to make payments. I thought this was a terrible thing. We let many people benefit from this at the time. Who wants to subsidize free loaders? In principle it is bad for people to just walk away from debts.

BTW, Marriott and some others do offer deed back programs. Not sure why you keep asking this question. I am in favor of it when it makes financial sense for the developer and the current owners.

 

[TravelTime]

By the way, the concept of timeshare is legitimate and clever, a real business.

It's one of those things that you just have to wonder how it came about.

I'm picturing a small group with several 6-packs of Old Milwaukee. At some point, someone said, "Let's build and sell condos. We could get $100,000 for each one." Then, someone said, "What if we could sell a condo in 50 one-week pieces for $25,000 each. We could get (pulling the pocket calculator out of their vest pocket) . . . . $1,250,000!"

Of course, someone who was still sober said, "That'll never happen."

Seriously, a college friend of mine developed the concept that became Hooters, and it wasn't all that much different than that scenario.

A timeshare is not that innovative of a concept, not anymore than condos for people who do not want or can't afford a home.