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Which resale weeks to purchase to later enroll?

jmhpsu93

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The recent thread on enrolling lots of weeks into the DC points system got me thinking/wondering...if eventually enrolling weeks through something like the current special is your goal, what resale weeks would be the best way to go about this?
 

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If you are looking for them as pure points generators, then high point assignment, low upfront resale cost to acquire, and low MF/point generated would be your ultimate goal.

If you think at times you may use some of the weeks as weeks, than other factors obviously come into play.
 

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The recent thread on enrolling lots of weeks into the DC points system got me thinking/wondering...if eventually enrolling weeks through something like the current special is your goal, what resale weeks would be the best way to go about this?
Unfortunately, weeks purchased now on open market can't be enrolled, only weeks owned from years past. They have played with which weeks bought in past can be enrolled at a price or a purchase of points. They do have a purchase program where you can buy weeks directly from Marriott vacation club with a purchase of points at a much better cost per point than points alone as the week is discounted and enrolled as part of the purchase. Good luck. It has been a terrific program after my 3 weeks in Maui today!

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JIMinNC

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Unfortunately, weeks purchased now on open market can't be enrolled, only weeks owned from years past. They have played with which weeks bought in past can be enrolled at a price or a purchase of points. They do have a purchase program where you can buy weeks directly from Marriott vacation club with a purchase of points at a much better cost per point than points alone as the week is discounted and enrolled as part of the purchase. Good luck. It has been a terrific program after my 3 weeks in Maui today!

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I think what the OP is asking is what weeks would be the best to acquire to take advantage of a future resale week "amnesty" program like the one that is currently underway through early July. While it is true weeks acquired now are not eligible for the current promotion, MVC has offered the promotion sometime in the spring/summer/fall for the last four years or so. Given their consistent pattern, it's not unreasonable to expect that they will offer such a program again in future years (though nothing is guaranteed). So, if someone wanted to prepare themselves to take advantage of a future amnesty promotion, they should buy the week(s) they want to enroll (via the future purchase of 3000-5500 points) before the next promotion starts. While there is certainly some risk that you could buy the weeks and then MVC never offers amnesty again, I think that is an unlikely scenario.
 
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vol_90

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Unfortunately, weeks purchased now on open market can't be enrolled, only weeks owned from years past.

I purchased Phuket, DSV II and Canyons Villas in Q418 with 2 of the weeks actually closing the transfer with Marriott in January 2019 (all weeks purchased by original buyers from Marriott in the early to mid 2000's) and initiated enrolling them in March 2019 via an additional Destination Points purchase. Marriott I believe will continue this promotion in future years. Maybe not all years but this does drive cashflow and earnings from existing weeks owners. I believe this promotion only lasts until June / July so likely not possible to complete a resale purchase before this ends.

The recent thread on enrolling lots of weeks into the DC points system got me thinking/wondering...if eventually enrolling weeks through something like the current special is your goal, what resale weeks would be the best way to go about this?

StevenTing has a link in his profile that contains a spreadsheet for Historical Marriott Maintenance Fees and DC Point Conversions. This could be used as part of your analysis while also looking at what weeks and price are likely to pass ROFR. I consider Phuket Platinum weeks good value @ ~$5K and MF's of $1,150 for 3,270 points. There are likely better ones out there.
 

JIMinNC

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I purchased Phuket, DSV II and Canyons Villas in Q418 with 2 of the weeks actually closing the transfer with Marriott in January 2019 (all weeks purchased by original buyers from Marriott in the early to mid 2000's) and initiated enrolling them in March 2019 via an additional Destination Points purchase. Marriott I believe will continue this promotion in future years. Maybe not all years but this does drive cashflow and earnings from existing weeks owners. I believe this promotion only lasts until June / July so likely not possible to complete a resale purchase before this ends.

For all of these promotions, MVC has set a cut-off date by which the week had to be owned. That date is usually just prior to the start of each annual promotion, although I've not seen what the official date was for the current promotion. But if this promo began in mid-late March, I would suspect the cutoff was some time in early/mid March. So even if someone were able to close on a week purchase prior to the promotion end, it would still be ineligible for this year's offer unless it was closed by the cut-off date.
 

GregT

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The recent thread on enrolling lots of weeks into the DC points system got me thinking/wondering...if eventually enrolling weeks through something like the current special is your goal, what resale weeks would be the best way to go about this?

If you are thinking about buying a week now, with the intention that it will become a points generator in the future, then I would buy a 2BR Platinum week at a property that you would personally utilize. I purchased Ko Olina for many reasons, one of which was as a potential points generator. It is a property that I love to visit, and now when I trade in (from another week), I am also trading into my home property. I have no idea if that really helps my unit assignment, but it can't hurt the unit assignment. I can also reliably book a prime summer week, because of the 13 month reservation off of my June fixed weeks. Finally, if I ever enroll it, it is worth 4,950 points. Thus, I decided to buy it a couple years ago.

However, it would cost $30K - $50K to enroll my unenrolled weeks and I don't think that amount of money justifies the additional value I get just from enrolling those unenrolled weeks. I really like what Dean did, buying a 3BR OV at Surf Club -- a great week in its own right -- and enrolling 7.5 weeks as a benefit. I could see myself doing that before buying $50K of points.

Good luck with your assessment, and whatever you do, it's worth tracking that June 2020 is the 10-year anniversary of the points program, and I believe they will come out with some amnesty program to celebrate 10 years of the program. I could see a flat $10K fee to enroll whatever is not enrolled, or a 10% discount off of whatever other specials they offer. At the 25-year anniversary of timesharing (2009?) they had a 25% discount off of their retail pricing. Will be interesting to see what they offer on that anniversary. And congrats to Marriott (seriously), they've done an amazing job with this program.

Best,

Greg
 

CalGalTraveler

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FWIW...Marriott makes you pay for points enrollment privileges that you automatically get for free with Vistana Staroptions mandatory weeks and all HGVC resale deeded weeks.

Do you have specific MVC locations that you desire so that you are willing to pay extra for this system? (you can also gain MVC trades and getaways through II for shoulder seasons and eventually may get access via the merger with Vistana)
 
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VacationForever

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On hindsight we should have planned for buying during amnesty period and bought at MKO because we love the property or NCV Fixed week 26 because it is drivable for us. They are both good points generators. Instead we bought a hybrid package. We learn something everyday.
 
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Dean

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The recent thread on enrolling lots of weeks into the DC points system got me thinking/wondering...if eventually enrolling weeks through something like the current special is your goal, what resale weeks would be the best way to go about this?
It would depend on my goals. Just to get points I'd want the cheapest weeks for the most points for the cheapest dues possible. Obviously there has to be a balance as the higher point options are also going to tend to be more expensive. I haven't run detailed financial analysis looking at likely resale costs, dues, points returned and the TVM/Opportunity costs but just looking at the up costs and points returned, I suspect the 2 BR Grand Chateau Platinum is going to be one of the better deals. Certainly higher demand weeks like Aruba, FL coast, HI will return more points but tend to have higher dues and a much higher acquisition cost. GC 2 BR plus a qualifying St. Kitts/Aruba purchase to enroll currently will return around 27500 points for an upfront cost of around $70K (just over $2.50 pp) and dues around 40¢ per point yearly. 3 BR at GC will be slightly more expensive long term because the dues per point ration is slightly more and it's likely one can get a better deal on sufficient volume for 2 BR over 3 BR there. Personally I like a combination of buy what you want to use combined with the points options. That's essentially where I've ended up but it wasn't planned. Were I starting out today I might look at different trading weeks over the ones I have now. With my recent conversion and just looking at the conversion components I was under $3.5 pp acquisition costs and 38¢ pp dues. So for an extra $30K roughly I get a slightly lower pp maintenance fee but I get weeks I'll use rather than just points. Now if one can still even weeks, higher view option type weeks that can add to the value say GO Platinum or HI/Aruba Platinum OF.
 

Quilter

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GC 2 BR plus a qualifying St. Kitts/Aruba purchase to enroll currently will return around 27500 points for an upfront cost of around $70K (just over $2.50 pp) and dues around 40¢ per point yearly.

Dean can you break this down more for me?

Are you saying just 2 weeks, a GC 2 BR and a St. Kitts or Aruba week would generate 27500 DC points annually? How much are you estimating as cost of GC week and how much for the other week? Is the GC week a resale and the “qualifying week” from Marriott?
 

Dean

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Dean can you break this down more for me?

Are you saying just 2 weeks, a GC 2 BR and a St. Kitts or Aruba week would generate 27500 DC points annually? How much are you estimating as cost of GC week and how much for the other week? Is the GC week a resale and the “qualifying week” from Marriott?
No, saying 7 GC 2BR platinum weeks plus a qualifying purchase, last I heard the cutoff was $48K to register more than 3 weeks.
 

Seaport104

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The recent thread on enrolling lots of weeks into the DC points system got me thinking/wondering...if eventually enrolling weeks through something like the current special is your goal, what resale weeks would be the best way to go about this?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...q0JNlWNC4hQJqfpnh3lm_67VDQ/edit#gid=974211081

This document lists the points value and MF for each week in excel. Sort the "2019 cost per point" column from lowest to highest. This will give you the info on the weeks that are points generators. The question then becomes, can you buy that week for a reasonable cost.
 

Quilter

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No, saying 7 GC 2BR platinum weeks plus a qualifying purchase, last I heard the cutoff was $48K to register more than 3 weeks.


Thank you Dean.

So the qualifier is a week that costs <$48K, which St. Kitts and Aruba do through Marriott resales? With the total of $70K that leaves $22K for the 7 GC weeks. Are they really only $3K?

Also, with a qualifier it seems you don't have to wait for the amnesty special and you own weeks, not points. Right?
 
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Seaport104

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Also, with a qualifier it seems you don't have to wait for the amnesty special and you own weeks, not points. Right?

With the qualifier, you still need to wait for the amnesty special.
 

csalter2

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The qualifier week is not a resale week. You’re paying full developer rates. Marriott May have gotten the week from a former owner, but it’s sold as developer inventory. However, when Marriott is offering their specials, you can use these Aruba and St. Kitts weeks to bring in multiple post 2010 resale weeks or purchase a resale week from them at resale prices.



Thank you Dean.

So the qualifier is a week that costs <$48K, which St. Kitts and Aruba do through Marriott resales? With the total of $70K that leaves $22K for the 7 GC weeks. Are they really only $3K?

Also, with a qualifier it seems you don't have to wait for the amnesty special and you own weeks, not points. Right?
 

catharsis

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I created a metric I called 'Total 20-year cost of points' - I add the cost per point of acquisition, to 20x the annual MF/Pt.

so (cost of acquisition / number of points) + (20) x (annual MF/ number of points)

This reflects both the purchase cost and the annual MFs and hence averages out the more expensive to acquire properties with the cheaper to own properties and gives a good metric for valuations.
 

Dean

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Thank you Dean.

So the qualifier is a week that costs <$48K, which St. Kitts and Aruba do through Marriott resales? With the total of $70K that leaves $22K for the 7 GC weeks. Are they really only $3K?

Also, with a qualifier it seems you don't have to wait for the amnesty special and you own weeks, not points. Right?
I think $3K per week is doable there and a year or 2 ago could have been done for a fair amount less. We've seen some upswing in ROFR lately it appears. Even though I was told $48K was the cutoff and I have it in writing, my 3 BR was $47.1K plus closing so still less than $48K.
 

TXTortoise

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I created a metric I called 'Total 20-year cost of points' - I add the cost per point of acquisition, to 20x the annual MF/Pt.

so (cost of acquisition / number of points) + (20) x (annual MF/ number of points)

This reflects both the purchase cost and the annual MFs and hence averages out the more expensive to acquire properties with the cheaper to own properties and gives a good metric for valuations.
Sounds like another tab for Steven’s points spreadsheet at VacationPointsExchange . :)
 

luv2vacation

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The recent thread on enrolling lots of weeks into the DC points system got me thinking/wondering...if eventually enrolling weeks through something like the current special is your goal, what resale weeks would be the best way to go about this?

Any insight into how this works would be much appreciated. Haven’t previously looked into the amnesty program because I enrolled my 2 weeks in 2010 when the DP program first started - 1 was resale, 1 was direct.

My goal is to get from Executive to Presidential level with the least amount of cost involved (of course). I don’t mind buying resale now & waiting for the next amnesty program (yes, I know it’s not guaranteed there will be another) to put plan into effect.

Bought 1000 DP points about 3 years ago to bring total points up to just over 6500. This was done to get to Executive Status right before they upped that status to 7000 points, so we are grandfathered in to Executive.

Will need about 3500 points to get to Presidential status. According to the terms of the current amnesty program, if we had one resale week that would generate at least 3500 pts, would we be eligible for the amnesty program? If so, what would we have to purchase/pay to get the resale week enrolled?

Would it be more cost effective to buy DP points resale?

Or, how does the Marriott resale program work, points + resale (resale enrolled for free?) - cost-ffectiveness?

By the way, vacations are our life! Every day we have off from work, we are looking to go somewhere. We still take week-long vacations sometimes but find we are taking long weekends a lot more as we get older to maximize our number of trips.
 

vacationtime1

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. . . .
My goal is to get from Executive to Presidential level with the least amount of cost involved (of course). I don’t mind buying resale now & waiting for the next amnesty program (yes, I know it’s not guaranteed there will be another) to put plan into effect. . . . .

I've often wondered why it is worth $20,000-$40,000 to have Presidential status rather than mere Executive status (3500 points @ about $7-$14/point). Presidential status has a couple of very minor enhancements over Executive status, but saving 5% on certain reservations will never recover more than a small portion of that upfront cost.

Why pay to buy additional points when points can be rented on an "as needed" basis for only slightly more than the underlying MF's?

luv2vacation is doing this in the most efficient way possible (resale and waiting for a deal to enroll) but even at the low end of the cost structure, is it really worth it?
 

Dean

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Any insight into how this works would be much appreciated. Haven’t previously looked into the amnesty program because I enrolled my 2 weeks in 2010 when the DP program first started - 1 was resale, 1 was direct.

My goal is to get from Executive to Presidential level with the least amount of cost involved (of course). I don’t mind buying resale now & waiting for the next amnesty program (yes, I know it’s not guaranteed there will be another) to put plan into effect.

Bought 1000 DP points about 3 years ago to bring total points up to just over 6500. This was done to get to Executive Status right before they upped that status to 7000 points, so we are grandfathered in to Executive.

Will need about 3500 points to get to Presidential status. According to the terms of the current amnesty program, if we had one resale week that would generate at least 3500 pts, would we be eligible for the amnesty program? If so, what would we have to purchase/pay to get the resale week enrolled?

Would it be more cost effective to buy DP points resale?

Or, how does the Marriott resale program work, points + resale (resale enrolled for free?) - cost-ffectiveness?

By the way, vacations are our life! Every day we have off from work, we are looking to go somewhere. We still take week-long vacations sometimes but find we are taking long weekends a lot more as we get older to maximize our number of trips.
Every situation is different but knowing your options up front is the way to best evaluate these options. You'll have to decide if it's worth it to you. You may want to look at the Spanish resorts though granted, I don't know as much about them or the program there but it's recently been suggested you could buy enrolled for around $4 pp and that you could even enroll post 2010 weeks while doing so. IF so, that will likely be your cheapest option to get 3500 points and would be favorable for dues. I know you can do this (buy a week, enroll others) with St. Kitt's and Aruba weeks but the weeks must have been in your account by the date the program starts or so I've told. We're in the process and a large part of our thought process is from a legacy standpoint since we're already Chairman's Club. What you might consider is deciding how many points you'd need for Chairman's, buy cheaper weeks with good DC points and lower maintenance fees then when the program comes around again as it likely will, you'll be ready to proceed. A couple of weeks resale and a good retail week that qualifies should easily get your there. Maybe even 1 of each though you can enroll 3 for the same price as 2 excluding the costs/fees of the extra week itself.
 

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I created a metric I called 'Total 20-year cost of points' - I add the cost per point of acquisition, to 20x the annual MF/Pt.

so (cost of acquisition / number of points) + (20) x (annual MF/ number of points)

This reflects both the purchase cost and the annual MFs and hence averages out the more expensive to acquire properties with the cheaper to own properties and gives a good metric for valuations.

You forgot to increase MF fees by approx 2-3% per year, so for example if 2000MF 1st year, second year is 2100, 3rd is ... makes a huge difference in the final cost over 20 years.

Someone around here mentioned putting it in a amortization calculator that calculated the increase year over year. I don't know how to do that but I put $2000 in with 2.5% increase each year for 20 years.

The result is $3277MF per year in the final year. Thus, at year 1 MF of $2000 becomes year 20 MF of $3277 if MF increase 2.5% each year. 2-3% is fairly typical, excluding any special assessments.
 
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catharsis

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No disagreement that MFs increase each year, my calculation was not genuinely estimating the total cost of ownership about 20 years.

It was more about including BOTH the initial capital cost and ongoing operational costs (all on a per point basis) when deciding on weeks to purchase.

Assuming all weeks increase at the same (say) 3% per year then the metric is still valid.

It is of course an oversimplification to make any such assumption as MFs will be influenced by commercial, geographical, and even climatic differences between properties (e.g. if global warming does lead to increased in hurricane frequency that will not affect Vegas much!)

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