when should you buy from the developer

[Larry M]

Correct. BUT you need to understand that VIP benefits are not guaranteed and can be (and have been) changed at the whim of Wyndham. It is a pretty big financial gamble to pay the upfront costs and hope that they don't change the rules before you might possibly break even in 20+ years.

Indeed, Wyndham has a history of changing the rules (read: breaking their promises to their owners). That's why I will never do business with them again.

 

[ronparise]

I disagree. You can not make a living renting vacation ownerships at Wyndham. To make the math easy, let's say you have a $1000 maintenance fee at a Wyndham resort, and you just want to recover your maintenance fee by renting it out for a $1000. Wyndham will rent it to someone for the $1000, keep $400 for themselves as a administration fee, and send you a check for only $600. And then to make matters worse, they will send you a 1099 MISC form at tax time stating that you received the full $1000, so that they can dodge the IRS for their $400 they got off the whole transaction.

But Wyndham doesnt do my rentals; I do heres the math

3 day weekend at 72000 points ($5/1000 points plus $100 guest cert) $460, rent at $500-$1000 profit is $40-$540....If I was platinum and was able to play the cancel and rebook and upgrade game I could get a larger unit for half the points and as a Platinum VIP I get a supply of guest certs free....so 36000 points for the same income potential

 

[Larry M]

If you vacation several weeks a year, it's cheaper than renting the additional weeks.

Well, actually, you may have to only own one week. My non-Wyndham TS is with a tiny outfit in South Carolina called Egrets' Pointe. Their policy is to knock $100 off the rental fee for owners who wish to rent additional weeks. And the rental starts at slightly less than the maintenance fee.

 

[Crohnos01]

I disagree. You can not make a living renting vacation ownerships at Wyndham. To make the math easy, let's say you have a $1000 maintenance fee at a Wyndham resort, and you just want to recover your maintenance fee by renting it out for a $1000. Wyndham will rent it to someone for the $1000, keep $400 for themselves as a administration fee, and send you a check for only $600. And then to make matters worse, they will send you a 1099 MISC form at tax time stating that you received the full $1000, so that they can dodge the IRS for their $400 they got off the whole transaction.

Now that is some seriously twisted math.... That's a lot like how the government does math... You know, "We are going to cut taxes by 2 million dollars"

Translation: "we are going to raise taxes by 18 million instead of the 20 million we had planned"

 

[rrlongwell]

But Wyndham doesnt do my rentals; I do heres the math

3 day weekend at 72000 points ($5/1000 points plus $100 guest cert) $460, rent at $500-$1000 profit is $40-$540....If I was platinum and was able to play the cancel and rebook and upgrade game I could get a larger unit for half the points and as a Platinum VIP I get a supply of guest certs free....so 36000 points for the same income potential

Ron's math is a little closer. The math does not appear to include housekeeping fees. So, I assume he gets these for free as a VIP Silver member.

The points he used appears to be reflecting shoulder season rates at the better resorts for the most part. And the figures do not appear to reflect the VIP Silver Discount of 25 percent.

Here are some examples with the VIP Platinum discounts.

Resort: Bentley Brook
Unit type:
2 Bedroom Deluxe
Check-In date:
11/02/2012
Length of stay:
3 nights
Total points required: 28,500

28,500 times .006 equals $171 for the reservation. $57 dollars per night.

Resort: Wyndham SeaWatch Plantation
Unit type:
2 Bedroom Deluxe
Check-In date:
10/26/2012
Length of stay:
3 nights
Total points required: 30,000

30,000 times .006 equals $180. $60 dollars per night.

Resort: Star Island
Unit type:
2 Bedroom Lockoff
Check-In date:
11/09/2012
Length of stay:
3 nights
Total points required: 28,500

28,500 times .006 equals $171 for the reservation. $57 dollars per night.

Resort: Wyndham Smoky Mountains
Unit type:
3 Bedroom Deluxe
Check-In date:
09/23/2012
Length of stay:
3 nights
Total points required: 13,500

13,500 points times .006 equals $81 dollars. $27 dollars per night.

Resort: Smugglers' Notch
Unit type: 3 Bedroom Deluxe
Check-In date: 11/05/2012
Length of stay: 3 nights
Total points required: 33,000

33,000 times .006 equals $198. $66 dollars per night.

Resort: Wyndham Vacation Resorts at National Harbor
Unit type: 2 Bedroom Deluxe
Check-In date: 09/17/2012
Length of stay: 3 nights
Total points required: 33,900

33,900 times .006 equals $203.40. $67.80 per night.

Apply our own cost per thousand points to figure out your own cost per night for the reservations you want.

Note: Under a "Flight to Quality" approach to purchasing timeshares, you would have a slightly higer cost per thousand, however, you would retain the ability to use ARP rights with all of the associated benifits of that program for getting great rates for great weeks in prime season (using the book cancel re-book system).

Note: 3 day weekends were used where available. A couple were not weekends.

 

[pacodemountainside]

I disagree. You can not make a living renting vacation ownerships at Wyndham. To make the math easy, let's say you have a $1000 maintenance fee at a Wyndham resort, and you just want to recover your maintenance fee by renting it out for a $1000. Wyndham will rent it to someone for the $1000, keep $400 for themselves as a administration fee, and send you a check for only $600. And then to make matters worse, they will send you a 1099 MISC form at tax time stating that you received the full $1000, so that they can dodge the IRS for their $400 they got off the whole transaction.

I think you need to talk with a CPA when it comes to taxes.

Yes, it is extremely difficult to make money renting through EH. This has beeen discussed at length. However, I do not believe anyone would put something for rent for $1K that had $1K in MF resulting in losing another $400 in rental commissions.

Best case they rent for full seven nights and you get $1,000. General case they cherry pick and rent just 3-4 nights and you lose money.

You do get a 1099 for $1,000 GROSS rental amount as required by law. You had better report on Schedule E! From this you deduct their $400 commission and probaby $30 CC and you deduct say $550 MF and say $20 other expenses. So best case you break even. That is why you see large owners renting points for $5.00/ $1,000 on thir own.

As far as Wyndham(EH) this is its primary source of income. If they did not report $400 would sure look funny. Anway, I will bet you the farm EH does report $400 as income on its tax return.

 

[2chuck]

I made one purchase from a Developer and I still consider it to be a fair price considering my requisites. I own 2) Two Bedroom Lockouts that I wanted to have flexibility on. Renting one side of the other, or both was usually possible, but it made me nervous. I didn't like RCI weeks for exchanging either. After a lengthy sales presentation in which I turned down every proposal, the salesman in a last ditch effort to sell me something, offered a triannual 2 bdrm at Vac Village Parkway in RCI Points and also agreed to put my other 2 bedroom lockouts in points for $5000 total. There may have been a way to do this for less, but I haven't seen one, because the price my home resort was charging to get into points was almost as much as the whole deal I was offered. I'm glad I took it, because I have enjoyed the freedom that Points has given me in the past 5 years. I have attended numerous presentations since then, not so much for the money, but more for the information I get from asking lots of questions. I always say no in the end. I usually find a good resale deal on Tug or Red Week and ask if they can beat it, that shuts them down fast.

 

[ronparise]

Ron's math is a little closer. The math does not appear to include housekeeping fees. So, I assume he gets these for free as a VIP Silver member.

The points he used appears to be reflecting shoulder season rates at the better resorts for the most part. And the figures do not appear to reflect the VIP Silver Discount of 25 percent.

My math isnt a little bit closer, its dead on, and based on a ton of real life examples

Please dont assume that what Im doing is different from what I say Im doing.

The rate is for a studio unit in Prime season, at the best timeshare resort in town..(not just the best wyndham resort, it's the best resort) and although I get housekeeping the math was presented for a non VIP.. Housekeeping is not an issue and doesent enter into the equation . Regarding the VIP discount, I only get that within 60 days of check in. I make my reservations (most of the time) well ahead of that and I dont play the cancel and rebook game

You probably dont know because of your VIP status, but you get one housekeeping credit for every 1000 points. and a housekeeping fee for a studio is 28 credits. even if I wasnt a Silver VIP, Id run out of points before Id run out of Housekeeping credits...do the math

 

[talkamotta]

I dont hear any Marriott owners jumping in.

My coworker swears by Marriott. Has 6 timeshares and has bought all through Marriott. Has about 230k invested in his 6 timeshares. He has millions of Marriott points.

I dont understand it because I have 8 1/2 timeshares and have about 18k invested in the original timeshare purchase. Probably pay more in trading fees but I think Im still ahead. 3 of mine are Hawaii properties and 5 of the 8 are GC so I can still get about anything I want.

He likes the conciere service that a multi Marriott owner gets. I dont care if I have to take my own bags in, oh wait a minute, Jeff always takes my bags in. He doesnt care either. Jeff doesnt care about granite counter tops. I kind of like them but it wouldnt make a difference if I stayed in a place or not.

My coworker is still working and will until hes 67, I retired at 58. There is so much more to life and how we spend out money and time that we need to be wise.

 

[timeos2]

My coworker is still working and will until hes 67, I retired at 58. There is so much more to life and how we spend out money and time that we need to be wise.

You got it! Why spend thousands, tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands for the exact same units (the ONLY real value)? You'll find most of the so called "perks" from developers are either time limited, not guaranteed or are available to virtually anyone anyway. Even if you have the money I'd rather give it to a local hospital or charity than see it in the hands of the obnoxious timeshare sales folks. But that's me. Some simply must pay more of they feel somehow cheapened. I prefer cash in hand or bank account. I retired at 52 and it was the best thing I ever did. If I had purchased our 8 (now 2) timeshares at retail that wouldn't have been likely to occur. It does matter how you spend your money or how you save it.

I've never seen a retail timeshare worth the money. I've seen plenty of resales (and surprisingly they are the same resorts!) that are great values.

 

[ampaholic]

I dont hear any Marriott owners jumping in.

My coworker swears by Marriott. Has 6 timeshares and has bought all through Marriott. Has about 230k invested in his 6 timeshares. He has millions of Marriott points.

I dont understand it because I have 8 1/2 timeshares and have about 18k invested in the original timeshare purchase. Probably pay more in trading fees but I think Im still ahead. 3 of mine are Hawaii properties and 5 of the 8 are GC so I can still get about anything I want.

He likes the conciere service that a multi Marriott owner gets. I dont care if I have to take my own bags in, oh wait a minute, Jeff always takes my bags in. He doesnt care either. Jeff doesnt care about granite counter tops. I kind of like them but it wouldnt make a difference if I stayed in a place or not.

My coworker is still working and will until hes 67, I retired at 58. There is so much more to life and how we spend out money and time that we need to be wise.

Imagine if that coworker had plopped 200K of that 230K into his or her retirement fund. :whoopie:

 

[ronparise]

I dont hear any Marriott owners jumping in.

My coworker swears by Marriott. Has 6 timeshares and has bought all through Marriott. Has about 230k invested in his 6 timeshares. He has millions of Marriott points.

I dont understand it because I have 8 1/2 timeshares and have about 18k invested in the original timeshare purchase. Probably pay more in trading fees but I think Im still ahead. 3 of mine are Hawaii properties and 5 of the 8 are GC so I can still get about anything I want.

He likes the conciere service that a multi Marriott owner gets. I dont care if I have to take my own bags in, oh wait a minute, Jeff always takes my bags in. He doesnt care either. Jeff doesnt care about granite counter tops. I kind of like them but it wouldnt make a difference if I stayed in a place or not.

My coworker is still working and will until hes 67, I retired at 58. There is so much more to life and how we spend out money and time that we need to be wise.

I recently assisted in the sale of two timeshare, actually just one, because the other one didnt sell

both are 2 bedroom lockoffs, both in Orlando, both new or fairly new properties, both about 1500 sq ft, both have a small side that is a true one bedroom, not a studio. One has mf of $1250, the other $750

The one with the higher mf and therefore less desirable in my mind sold for $7500 and the one with the lower mf didnt attract any bidders...I offered it here on tug for $50 and still no takers

Guess which one is the Marriott

I dont get it; but Marriott Owners love their Marriotts and it seems would rather have their money in Marriott's pocket, rather than in their own. I cant imagine a day at Disney is any better after sleeping in a Marriott bed...but thats me

Does it ever make sense to buy from the developer, not usually if you do a strictly financial analysis, but people do it....There must be more to their decision than the money

 

[rrlongwell]

My math isnt a little bit closer, its dead on, and based on a ton of real life examples

Please dont assume that what Im doing is different from what I say Im doing.

The rate is for a studio unit in Prime season, at the best timeshare resort in town..(not just the best wyndham resort, it's the best resort) and although I get housekeeping the math was presented for a non VIP.. Housekeeping is not an issue and doesent enter into the equation . Regarding the VIP discount, I only get that within 60 days of check in. I make my reservations (most of the time) well ahead of that and I dont play the cancel and rebook game

You probably dont know because of your VIP status, but you get one housekeeping credit for every 1000 points. and a housekeeping fee for a studio is 28 credits. even if I wasnt a Silver VIP, Id run out of points before Id run out of Housekeeping credits...do the math

Just to make sure I understand what you are saying correctly, one housekeeping credit is used for every 1000 points and the housekeeping credits for a studio is 28. That makes the studio 28,000 points in prime season.

Since we appear to be talking about a 3 day weekend reservation in Prime Season, that appears to suggest that 4 three day weekends in prime season at the best resort in that city would be 112,000 points. I cannot access the site right now, however, when it lets me in, I will check it out. Never looked at it that way. If this is what is available for non-VIP, then I may be missing a great thing.

Add in the guest pass fee and the math is done.

 

[Free2Roam]

Just to make sure I understand what you are saying correctly, one housekeeping credit is used for every 1000 points and the housekeeping credits for a studio is 28. That makes the studio 28,000 points in prime season.

One housekeeping credit is EARNED for every 1000 points. The USAGE is calculated differently.