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What Would You Pay For VIP Silver?

kaljor

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I went to a sales meeting recently and obviously the person I spoke with couldn't do anything about the price of $100,000 for 400k points. But it got me wondering. How much would you pay tomorrow for a VIP Silver ownership? I've read the threads about how to get to VIP with the PIC program, and I understand it, but I'm curious about what a current Wyndham owner with only resale points (like myself) would be willing to pay for the lowest level of VIP.

I think I'd go to 50k but not more, and I don't think Wyndham will ever go that low.

I'm just curious about what you think.
 

paxsarah

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For me, it’s safe to say it’s below the $14k or so that’s been quoted as the minimum direct purchase (2 x 49k points) to enroll two PICs. I don’t know, maybe I would start doing the math for my situation at about half that amount? That’s also more points than we need right now, yet silver is also at a competitive disadvantage to the higher VIP levels when it comes to renting out any extra points, so in addition to a more palatable cost I’d need to see an increase in my own travel needs as well.
 

bogey21

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I went to a sales meeting recently and obviously the person I spoke with couldn't do anything about the price of $100,000 for 400k points. But it got me wondering. How much would you pay tomorrow for a VIP Silver ownership?

Aren't we reaching the point where not buying at all and renting is the better option. The earnings on the $100,000 you don't spend will cover a lot of your rent...

George
 

raygo123

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I went to a sales meeting recently and obviously the person I spoke with couldn't do anything about the price of $100,000 for 400k points. But it got me wondering. How much would you pay tomorrow for a VIP Silver ownership? I've read the threads about how to get to VIP with the PIC program, and I understand it, but I'm curious about what a current Wyndham owner with only resale points (like myself) would be willing to pay for the lowest level of VIP.

I think I'd go to 50k but not more, and I don't think Wyndham will ever go that low.

I'm just curious about what you think.
Average is 60,000 id say

Sent from my LGLK430 using Tapatalk
 

dgalati

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Aren't we reaching the point where not buying at all and renting is the better option. The earnings on the $100,000 you don't spend will cover a lot of your rent...

George
Also add in the additional yearly cost of maintenance fees of $2000-$2400 on 400,000 points.
 

bnoble

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There is very little in Silver I would take advantage of. Most of my travel is in high-demand locations/times, so the discount windows are generally not very useful at any level now that cancel-rebook is not possible. Having a few guest confirmations might be nice, but I don't often use the ones I have now. I don't think I've ever paid a HK fee, because most of my trips are 5-7 days long. Maybe at Silver I'd be more likely to take shorter trips? I don't know.

For me, there really isn't a way that Wyndham could make it competitive. That's probably true for the other levels as well. In retirement, when I'm not beholden to peak season travel (I work in education), maybe it's different.
 

Nomad34

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Thank you for your answer thinking wyndham would never sell silver VIP for $50k b/c maybe if you wait it may happen. Ovations keeps telling me to wait before giving up on getting something for my 402k. I enjoy several vacations every year with friends and rent out some for cost of fees but right now the website is against any continuous bookings so i may have to succumb.
 

paxsarah

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How long ago did you spend 10k for silver?

The question was, "What would you pay for VIP silver?" And more specifically, the question was directed towards "what a current Wyndham owner with only resale points" would pay, presumably because the prices available to us right now haven't been enough to get us to bite.
 

dgalati

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The question was, "What would you pay for VIP silver?" And more specifically, the question was directed towards "what a current Wyndham owner with only resale points" would pay, presumably because the prices available to us right now haven't been enough to get us to bite.
Key words in ops original question. What would you pay for VIP silver?
 

bendadin

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The question was, "What would you pay for VIP silver?" And more specifically, the question was directed towards "what a current Wyndham owner with only resale points" would pay, presumably because the prices available to us right now haven't been enough to get us to bite.

But the OP knows his own answer. He understands PIC so he knows how much that will cost. I'm just asking as to how long ago it was only $10k to get to silver. I suppose that when prices were lower and the point levels were lower, it "could" be possible to come in to silver for $10k. But how long ago was that feasible?

I started with only resale. I was quite content with my small, very inexpensive (or free) contracts that I had acquired. I never, ever thought that we would go VIP. And when the thought did cross my mind, it wasn't to get to silver. I didn't find enough value to go from nothing to silver. We went to Gold and then we evaluated as to whether or not the (bigger) expense to get to permanent platinum was worth it.
 

CruiseGuy

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I would never pay anywhere near $50k for silver! I might agree with the $10k. But I certainly wouldn't pay more than that. There's a lot of other things I can do with that money, and the silver benefits really aren't much to get excited about.
 

cbyrne1174

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I just wouldn't pay past $10,000 because timesharing is going to change. I bet you anything Wyndham will realize that they have to smarten up to get millennials to buy retail. A right to use with a certain point allocation like DVC is how it will probably end up being. I think they will honor everyone grandfathered in with a deed. But I think they are planning to use Ovations to restructure how they sell vacation packages. I think everything will be CWA with a right to use expiration date and they will make the transfer process insanely expensive like Marriott does so people will end up paying it until it expires. The buyer would chose the number of points that they want and the length of the term. That's why I bought more points than I personally use at the moment. I bought as much as I could possibly need when my family is at its largest and I just rent out while I only have 1 small child.

If they go this route, they won't want people to continuously transfer deeds to their children to retain VIP discounts, so I feel discounts will get nerfed over time to get people to go the Ovations route. It sounds like something Wyndham would do, so I won't give them an amount that I would be extremely pissed with losing. I can get over 10k, but anything more will make me hate life lol.



Edit: My avatar picture is supposed to be the Bonnet Creek Sales Weasels =D
 
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Jan M.

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I just wouldn't pay past $10,000 because timesharing is going to change. I bet you anything Wyndham will realize that they have to smarten up to get millennials to buy retail. A right to use with a certain point allocation like DVC is how it will probably end up being. I think they will honor everyone grandfathered in with a deed. But I think they are planning to use Ovations to restructure how they sell vacation packages. I think everything will be CWA with a right to use expiration date and they will make the transfer process insanely expensive like Marriott does so people will end up paying it until it expires. The buyer would chose the number of points that they want and the length of the term. That's why I bought more points than I personally use at the moment. I bought as much as I could possibly need when my family is at its largest and I just rent out while I only have 1 small child.

If they go this route, they won't want people to continuously transfer deeds to their children to retain VIP discounts, so I feel discounts will get nerfed over time to get people to go the Ovations route. It sounds like something Wyndham would do, so I won't give them an amount that I would be extremely pissed with losing. I can get over 10k, but anything more will make me hate life lol.

I found your post interesting and thought provoking. Timeshares have changed and I expect they will continue to evolve.

In the early days timeshares were sold as fixed weeks. You may see people mention converted fixed weeks meaning the weeks they own were converted to points. I know there are still fixed week (not converted fixed weeks) owners at Sea Gardens and some of the earliest resorts and I frequently see fixed weeks at the Hawaii resorts being sold on eBay. Although fixed weeks haven't been developer sold for quite some time now the owners still use them just as they always have. Those weeks can still be sold by those owners to another person as fixed weeks.

For those of us who are deeded as points it isn't a question of Wyndham honoring or us being grandfathered. We would continue to have the ability to book any of the inventory all the deeded owners hold. However many of us are aware that because of CWA that inventory has shrunk considerably. The owners who have CWA have a contract with Wyndham for x number of points annually with no end date that allows them to use the inventory in CWA. Right now at 10 months or less both Club Wyndham Select owners and Club Wyndham Access members can book each other's inventory. I see nothing that says that couldn't be changed. In the future it is possible that each could only be able to book the inventory in their type.

I've always said that CWA was the genius answer to a prayer at a very tough time financially for Wyndham. It also allows them to adapt to future trends. Wyndham retains the deeds for the inventory in CWA and I would bet that not only can Wyndham add but they can also take out inventory as they see fit. The only stipulation would be that they would always have to have enough inventory in CWA to cover the number of points people have contacts for. When CWA started out most of the inventory in it was quite honestly the stuff that Wyndham couldn't sell at older resorts, resorts that needed a lot of renovations and updates and resorts with the highest maintenance fees. It was salted with a smaller amount of inventory at more desirable locations to entice people to buy into CWA. Over time inventory at more resorts and more of the "good stuff" was added but still not every resort has inventory in CWA and some resorts have a very limited amount. If down the road Wyndham wanted to set up something like you suggested they are perfectly set up to do just that because they could gut CWA of however much of the best inventory they wanted to take to form a new type of membership. Whenever inventory comes back to them as a trade in or through Ovations they can chose to resell it as deeded, put it in CWA or even start a new type of membership. And as they have in the past Wyndham can use go betweens to buy up stuff being sold on eBay, here on TUG, Redweek, etc. Wyndham can do whatever they choose to do with the inventory they own.

That brings me to the next thing. Wyndham makes sure to retain or obtain ownership of enough points to ensure that they control the boards at the resorts. That keeps them in control of managing the resorts. Managing the resorts is profitable. I suspect they could do whatever they wanted if they controlled enough of the inventory at a resort. A few years ago a resort we owned that was in RCI was bought out by a developer. One or more people had been buying up weeks that became available over a period of years. When they had amassed enough they made a deal with a developer who had long wanted to acquire the property. That developer made all the remaining owners an decent offer. The offer had a time limit and was dependent on the developer being able to acquire enough to take over. The deal was you got 25% of the offer after the time limit to accept the buyout offer had ended. You had the next three years of your maintenance fees paid and could use your week or points from your week for three years. At the end of three years you got the remaining 75% of the offer. That was a very rare instance of actually making money on a timeshare. Some tried to fight it but they never stood a chance. We never found out if they got something for their units and if so if it was as much as they were offered in the buy out. I know they were bitter because it was a fantastic location and there was nothing else like it that they could buy to replace what they were losing. At the time the offer was made we had moved to Florida, were living in the area and my husband had business dealings with a lot of condos, apartment complexes, timeshares and hotels in Florida. Because of that we knew we would be fools not to take the buyout offer. But it was still sad to see the resort go. There are quite a few properties that Wyndham owns neither the land nor the building, the developer does. Think condos. At some resorts Wyndham sold the units but never owned them. At some resorts I think Wyndham did buy units. But either way anything in CWA. anything they take back in trade, through Ovations or foreclosures they now own. It might be possible for Wyndham to do something like what occurred at the resort where we used to own. There are a few people, probably chapjim and Ron Parise, who could tell us whether or not Wyndham could do something like that.

We know that once a point chart is established for a resort it will not change other than if a new type of unit is added. Yes that can and does happen. I believe Bonnet Creek and Emerald Grande are examples of new unit types being added. If Wyndham were to start an entirely new type of ownership I don't see why they couldn't set up new point charts for that type of membership because it would have its own inventory that we likely wouldn't be able to book. Fixed week owners would still be able to use their weeks. Deeded owners would still be able to book the inventory held by deeded owners. CWA members would still book the CWA inventory. CWS and CWA could even continue as they are now with being able to book each other's inventory at 10 months but nothing says it has to be that way if it doesn't suit Wyndham's long range plans and purposes. There could easily be an entirely new type of membership, totally separate, possibly something like you proposed.
 
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bogey21

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I just wouldn't pay past $10,000 because timesharing is going to change...A right to use with a certain point allocation like DVC is how it will probably end up being. I think they will honor everyone grandfathered in with a deed...

I could see them offering to convert existing Owners to an RTU model for a large fee of course. The sales pitch would be something like "Enjoy your ownership with certainty". I wonder how many would buy into this...

George
 

dgalati

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I could see them offering to convert existing Owners to an RTU model for a large fee of course. The sales pitch would be something like "Enjoy your ownership with certainty". I wonder how many would buy into this...

George
I would believe many will buy into any new system sales can put a spin on. Who would of guessed years ago that Ovations would be as embraced as it is today? I also agree with
cbyrne1174 that Wyndham must cater to the Millennials buying habits if they want to sell to that market.
 

cbyrne1174

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I'm pretty sure they don't have to change the structure of Club Wyndham to make it right to use. They can keep the same point charts and only sell right to use CWA contracts that expire after a certain amount of time. An example would be selling 200,000 points CWA that expire in 10 years, 15 years, 20 years etc. Then they can just jack up the transfer price to an absurd amount that nobody would ever pay, thus making current memberships non transferable and the new memberships non transferable.

I'm 30 years old and because I can't remember life before the internet very well (I've had it since I was 5), I instinctually researched the product online extensively before I made a resale purchase. I learned about Club Wyndham at a Bonnet Creek sales pitch and googled all the cheap resale contracts while I was at the presentation. I didn't know about Club Wyndham before I attended a presentation. Yet I had my smart phone with me and googling skills and I was able to tell the salesman that the membership has almost no market value and I'm only willing to pay market value for a vacation club just as I would when buying a car. If they make it so it's next to impossible to buy resale, they will have more luck with people in my age group. I was interested in the product and was willing to pay for it, I was just able to tell from the initial presentation that I could get almost the exact same thing for pennies on the dollar.

I'm actually pretty sure it was Jan's posting that I was reading during the presentation. It was a "should I rescind post" and she had a good response that I showed the salesperson and was given my gift pretty quickly lol. This was in May 2018.
 

dgalati

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I'm pretty sure they don't have to change the structure of Club Wyndham to make it right to use. They can keep the same point charts and only sell right to use CWA contracts that expire after a certain amount of time. An example would be selling 200,000 points CWA that expire in 10 years, 15 years, 20 years etc. Then they can just jack up the transfer price to an absurd amount that nobody would ever pay, thus making current memberships non transferable and the new memberships non transferable.

I'm 30 years old and because I can't remember life before the internet very well (I've had it since I was 5), I instinctually researched the product online extensively before I made a resale purchase. I learned about Club Wyndham at a Bonnet Creek sales pitch and googled all the cheap resale contracts while I was at the presentation. I didn't know about Club Wyndham before I attended a presentation. Yet I had my smart phone with me and googling skills and I was able to tell the salesman that the membership has almost no market value and I'm only willing to pay market value for a vacation club just as I would when buying a car. If they make it so it's next to impossible to buy resale, they will have more luck with people in my age group. I was interested in the product and was willing to pay for it, I was just able to tell from the initial presentation that I could get almost the exact same thing for pennies on the dollar.

I'm actually pretty sure it was Jan's posting that I was reading during the presentation. It was a "should I rescind post" and she had a good response that I showed the salesperson and was given my gift pretty quickly lol. This was in May 2018.
I think Wyndham recognizes the need to make it more expensive to sell or just make it harder to buy and sell deeds on the resale market. Over the last 2-1/2 years they have made changes to affect the traders of deeds but IMHO Ovations has pushed the resale prices lower not higher.
 
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