What is your maintenance fee threshold?

[Panina]

Timeshares give me guaranteed time at places at resorts I want to be at and lets not forget the views that are guaranteed at some. I could not rent for cheaper then my maintenance at any timeshare I own with the same size and views. If I could then I would look at eliminating that timeshare from what I own.

I have stayed away from obtaining certain timeshare resorts because the buy in costs and maintenance fees were excessive and renting would be cheaper.

 

[DiveDogs]

We have a float week. Each year we consider the average rate for a week in a local hotel and we are much better off with our timeshare. We consider the trade value because we have traded to some very nice places. We consider the availability of a unit at our home resort.

We are very happy with our resort and understand the unfortunate need to raise the maintenance fees.[/QUOTE]

 

[sdhakala7]

I really agree with the points of the OP. From my perspective, the threshold maintenance fee varies with the quality of the unit and the utility but generally for a standard two-bedroom unit that threshold is about $1,000 simply because when one buys a timeshare, one has paid for the original construction and should not have to pay again and there are other ongoing costs (RCI and exchange fees and guest fees) associated with ownership as well as risk of not always being able to use the timeshare in some years. I can purchase an equivalent rental condo for about $200 to $250 per night with effectively 6 nights of use, so that means that my timeshare maintenance fees must be worth in the range of $1,200 to $1,500 with the benefits of only paying when I actually show up and the flexibility of choosing when to go without searching for an exchange and the more limited options.

I have always wondered about the relative lack of clear and effective disclosure of the bases and reasons for maintenance fee increases. Living in a HOA for my residence, we receive an annual report with a detailed financial statement and budget for the next year and some indications up to three years forward. We vote on the board managing our HOA. None of that type of transparency is present in timeshares. One of my timeshares was purchased by another company and the maintenance fees have shot up. I really doubt that my timeshare is getting the benefits of those increases since the developer is not actively selling units at my timeshare but is actively promoting units at other locations (where I suspect my maintenance fees are effectively subsidizing amenities and the developer at those other locations).

 

[BocaBoy]

The issue you are describing is this: In many (all) seasonal resorts the maintenance fees for off season weeks are the same as for prime season weeks. Or put another way; Blue week owners are subsidizing the Red week owners. And that ain't fair.

Of course it is fair, unless one is talking about tax differences. Maintenance fees are the costs of ownership, and the non-tax costs of owning an off season week are generally the same as owning a prime week. That is why in many states the resorts are required by law to do it this way. Demand differences by season are instead reflected in the market value of the timeshare week. I would agree, however, that off season weeks become worthless sooner than prime weeks because of the demand factor.

 

[Lisa P]

But there is something to be said for being at a resort as opposed to just a home or apartment. I prefer to be at a resort hands down...

Totally agree. So if we are able to easily locate comparable rental resort stays when and where we want, for close to the cost of maintenance fees plus exchange fees (if any), then we're out. This is what happened to us with our Marriott week and even with our DVC points, many years ago. And it's what has caused us to revisit considering a resale DVC purchase in the future. The way we use our Wyndham points, we pay less by continuing to own.

I have upgraded to a top of the line, two bedroom, resort in the Mayan Riveria, paying a yearly exhange fees in excess of $2000/yr. The resort has continually upgrades and maintains their resort in top quality. Any weeks that go unused, I do not pay that years maintenance fee, with no penalty.

Yikes! That sounds incredibly steep for Mexico! Especially when package deals go on sale on a regular basis. Does this cover All-Inclusive fees (all food & beverages, sporting equipment, etc.)? How many prime time weeks in what size unit does that US $2000/yr get you?

 

[WinniWoman]

I really agree with the points of the OP. From my perspective, the threshold maintenance fee varies with the quality of the unit and the utility but generally for a standard two-bedroom unit that threshold is about $1,000 simply because when one buys a timeshare, one has paid for the original construction and should not have to pay again and there are other ongoing costs (RCI and exchange fees and guest fees) associated with ownership as well as risk of not always being able to use the timeshare in some years. I can purchase an equivalent rental condo for about $200 to $250 per night with effectively 6 nights of use, so that means that my timeshare maintenance fees must be worth in the range of $1,200 to $1,500 with the benefits of only paying when I actually show up and the flexibility of choosing when to go without searching for an exchange and the more limited options.

I have always wondered about the relative lack of clear and effective disclosure of the bases and reasons for maintenance fee increases. Living in a HOA for my residence, we receive an annual report with a detailed financial statement and budget for the next year and some indications up to three years forward. We vote on the board managing our HOA. None of that type of transparency is present in timeshares. One of my timeshares was purchased by another company and the maintenance fees have shot up. I really doubt that my timeshare is getting the benefits of those increases since the developer is not actively selling units at my timeshare but is actively promoting units at other locations (where I suspect my maintenance fees are effectively subsidizing amenities and the developer at those other locations).

If you have an HOA you should be getting or have access to the meeting minutes and budgets. Many resorts also allow owners to call in or to send emails regarding their concerns and to vote for board members.

 

[klpca]

Great location, well maintained with strong amenities and low maintenance fees-- that's the epitome of what we all want. But, that's hard to find and often changes.

The general rules in timesharing is are:
1. As maintenance fees rise, resale value decreases.
2. Maintenance fees only go up. (Even when they tell you they needed to add $60 to pay for a certain unexpected repair.)
3. When a developer inventory runs out, fees will rise dramatically.
4. Large maintenance fee increases can be linked to delinquencies, sales and foreclosures.
5. When maintenance fees surpass prevailing market rental rates, resorts struggle to keep owners.

I remember about 15-20 years ago, the threshold for acceptable fees was about $75/night or about $500/week. Then $100/night became the norm or $700/week. Now, I'm seeing them push $1,000/week (not Hilton, Marriott or Hyatt). One of my resorts has breached this 4 digit threshold. It's a strong 5 star resort, but this fee increase is an audacious step. I see the resales already, and I'm concerned that delinquencies will rise.
I have not reached my threshold (and probably wont since I own prime), but I know many off-season owners will-- and this is bad for all owners at this resort.
I'm speaking for California Coastal-- where I own most of my timeshare units.
But, costs are higher everywhere.
I know it varies by region and by location... but what is an acceptable threshold for your annual maintenance fees?
And, what is the unacceptable threshold where you say, "I quit... I'm not paying this anymore!"?

For me the threshold is as long as it's cheaper to own than to rent, I'm good. I also own a prime week at this resort (I think we own at the same place), so my mf's are still way under the rental cost during the summer. Crossing the $1000 threshold was noticed this year. However, as in most timeshares that I see, those increases go hand in hand with the upgrades that are demanded by owners/exchanges. No more Formica for us, granite/quartz only. The indestructible tile that was used 20 years ago and is still in pristine condition, nope - tear it out and replace with something more contemporary. No white appliances, stainless steel only. This is to stay competitive and I understand it, but it comes at a price.

 

[hammerhammer]

For the resort we own at today's rate would have to be above 1,750 for us to leave, maybe.

 

[Coach Boon]

I really agree with the points of the OP. From my perspective, the threshold maintenance fee varies with the quality of the unit and the utility but generally for a standard two-bedroom unit that threshold is about $1,000 simply because when one buys a timeshare, one has paid for the original construction and should not have to pay again and there are other ongoing costs (RCI and exchange fees and guest fees) associated with ownership as well as risk of not always being able to use the timeshare in some years. I can purchase an equivalent rental condo for about $200 to $250 per night with effectively 6 nights of use, so that means that my timeshare maintenance fees must be worth in the range of $1,200 to $1,500 with the benefits of only paying when I actually show up and the flexibility of choosing when to go without searching for an exchange and the more limited options.

I have always wondered about the relative lack of clear and effective disclosure of the bases and reasons for maintenance fee increases. Living in a HOA for my residence, we receive an annual report with a detailed financial statement and budget for the next year and some indications up to three years forward. We vote on the board managing our HOA. None of that type of transparency is present in timeshares. One of my timeshares was purchased by another company and the maintenance fees have shot up. I really doubt that my timeshare is getting the benefits of those increases since the developer is not actively selling units at my timeshare but is actively promoting units at other locations (where I suspect my maintenance fees are effectively subsidizing amenities and the developer at those other locations).

This is our situation as well. Well run facility albeit it is not posh but has a great location. We rarely go to our home resort being Canadian we have to fly to just about all resorts so we trade when we can for variety. Since we have weeks and can't use points (RCI) we can't get the better resort even though we have a red week. We then look at an equivalent cost for a resort or all inclusive. Our MR are less than $700/Wk. If I toss in all the RCI fees, I'm looking at $1200 CAD ($950 USD). I doubt I can get a good resort for $160/nt. So I can see that a reasonable rate of $250/nd x 6 days = $1500 as our threshold.

 

[rickandcindy23]

The threshold for a trader week is much different from a stay-every-year week. We have Maui weeks with $1,730/yr MF's for 2 bed, 2 bath, oceanfront ordinary, nothing fancy, resort.

 

[Aquaman07]

Great location, well maintained with strong amenities and low maintenance fees-- that's the epitome of what we all want. But, that's hard to find and often changes.

The general rules in timesharing is are:
1. As maintenance fees rise, resale value decreases.
2. Maintenance fees only go up. (Even when they tell you they needed to add $60 to pay for a certain unexpected repair.)
3. When a developer inventory runs out, fees will rise dramatically.
4. Large maintenance fee increases can be linked to delinquencies, sales and foreclosures.
5. When maintenance fees surpass prevailing market rental rates, resorts struggle to keep owners.

I remember about 15-20 years ago, the threshold for acceptable fees was about $75/night or about $500/week. Then $100/night became the norm or $700/week. Now, I'm seeing them push $1,000/week (not Hilton, Marriott or Hyatt). One of my resorts has breached this 4 digit threshold. It's a strong 5 star resort, but this fee increase is an audacious step. I see the resales already, and I'm concerned that delinquencies will rise.
I have not reached my threshold (and probably wont since I own prime), but I know many off-season owners will-- and this is bad for all owners at this resort.
I'm speaking for California Coastal-- where I own most of my timeshare units.
But, costs are higher everywhere.
I know it varies by region and by location... but what is an acceptable threshold for your annual maintenance fees?
And, what is the unacceptable threshold where you say, "I quit... I'm not paying this anymore!"?

 

[Aquaman07]

It seems MFs have skyrocketed during the past decade. My brother-in-law thinks it's crazy to put so much money in a timeshare and then have to pay MFs every year. I am with HGVC and I hit the threshold last year. Re-sale values, even prime properties, are terrible. Isn't there anything members can do collectively to stop this or to press the resorts to come up with innovative ideas (perhaps the use of some points)? I went to an annual members meeting in Vegas a few years ago and many raged about MFs. Nothing happened. It was a total farce.

 

[alexadeparis]

Since the vast majority of my timeshares were acquired resale for very little, I don't really include acquisition cost into the equation. I have had to stay about 6 nights in various tiny 3.5 star hotel rooms in 2017 at a cost between $150-$200 a night (400-500 sq feet). So I guess that my threshold is about $1400 per week. I very rarely book less than a 2 bedroom timeshare, even if it's just the 2 of us, so to me as long as my all in price (including exchange fee if applicable) is equal to or less than $200 a night I am good. Of course for a spectacular trade (internal points or external exchange co) I am willing to go a little higher. Basically my MF budget is $550 a month and that gets me at least 5 weeks a year, so I guess I am bumping near my threshold. I already have a plan in my mind of which timeshares will be jettisoned, and in what order. As my spouse gets older, I guess I can say it's only a matter of time that I will exit regardless of MF cost.

 

[WinniWoman]

I have rented at resorts directly (timeshare and non timeshare- but still condos) in high demand areas and for a two bedroom, 2 bath, or even a one bedroom, 1 bath, it runs close to $2000 for a 6 or 7 nights.

This said, you can rent directly from other timeshare owners for the same for $1000-$1500, or often times, even cheaper than that on Home Away depending on what, where and when you rent.

I guess for me, a fixed weeks owner, I would be even more concerned than I am now once my maintenance fees hit $1300 per week.

 

[theo]

Interesting thread, with some very thoughtful and insightful observations and perspectives.

I'll just note that one (older, independent) place in coastal FL where we own a few intervals has kept MF's consistently low ($600+ for spacious, 2BR units) for years now --- but they have done so by willfully deciding to not fully fund "reserves". That option (for reasons that escape my comprehension) can be legally exercised under applicable Florida law and the Board and a majority vote of owners have overtly chosen to exercise that option at that particular property.

My point is that while mf's stay low, the flip side is that updates and improvements are few and far between; the place is taking on a decidedly "tired" feel.
In short, too low maintenance fees can also have a negative impact. That property is in a great location and the units very spacious by timeshare standards. If we decide to bail, it won't be because of a maintenance fee "pain threshold" being exceeded, but because of dissatisfaction with a deteriorating infrastructure which is the inevitable result of mf's having been (unwisely, IMnsHO) kept too low for too long.

Ironically, this low maintenance fee obsession is (in my personal opinion, anyhow) just "penny wise and pound foolish". What will (and must) inevitably occur at some point is Special Assessments, imposed to attempt to "catch up". Some of those addicted to the historical, falsely low fees will then indignantly jump ship. Those remaining will then "enjoy" disproportionately higher fees, belatedly imposed of necessity to cover the shortfalls of the "departed" now paying nothing after too many years of paying too little. "Penny wise and pound foolish" just sums up that whole approach and mentality quite nicely, IMnsHO.

 

[WinniWoman]

That is exactly right. What you get for your maintenance fees means a lot. With timeshare ownership, just as in renting, I would rather stay at a resort with a pool and gym and lots of amenities, and decent furniture and appliances and so forth for more money, rather than a single private condo or house without those things just because it is less expensive. Of course, everything depends on an individuals' budget and affordability.

 

[Egret1986]

I have had tTo stay about 6 nights in various tiny 3.5 star hotel rooms in 2017 at a cost between $150-$200 a night (400-500 sq feet). So I guess that my threshold is about $1400 per week.

This has been my experience. Sometimes you just can't get around having to use a hotel room. Yes, in actuality, a one room hotel stay is going to cost about $200 (with taxes, etc.) per night. However, folks will balk at their maintenance fee going up when they are most likely staying in a much larger unit with more amenities. That is the draw of timeshares. More space and amenities for less money than hotel stays.

I have rented at resorts directly (timeshare and non timeshare- but still condos) in high demand areas and for a two bedroom, 2 bath, or even a one bedroom, 1 bath, it runs close to $2000 for a 6 or 7 nights.

This said, you can rent directly from other timeshare owners for the same for $1000-$1500, or often times, even cheaper than that on Home Away depending on what, where and when you rent.

I guess for me, a fixed weeks owner, I would be even more concerned than I am now once my maintenance fees hit $1300 per week.

There are many more options out there today for renting accommodations similar to those provided by timeshares than there were several years ago. Timeshare ownership still works for me. However, in the future, I think I will partake of other lodging opportunities more. Timeshare ownership requires a tolerance for risk. One day, I may let someone take on the risk and I will just rent from them. With flexibility, one can find some great rentals.

Interesting thread, with some very thoughtful and insightful observations and perspectives.

My point is that while mf's stay low, the flip side is that updates and improvements are few and far between; the place is taking on a decidedly "tired" feel.
In short, too low maintenance fees can also have a negative impact. That property is in a great location and the units very spacious by timeshare standards. If we decide to bail, it won't be because of a maintenance fee "pain threshold" being exceeded, but because of dissatisfaction with a deteriorating infrastructure which is the inevitable result of mf's having been (unwisely, IMnsHO) kept too low for too long.

I agree. There is a resort in North Carolina where I owned for 30+ years. Whenever any threads are started about this resort, you can be guaranteed that several posts will state LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION! Yes, that can never be argued. "Too low maintenance fees can also have a negative impact." I think one could actually state "too low maintenance fees will have a negative impact." Too low of fees to support the maintenance and upgrades of the property will one day catch up. It happened over many, many years at my favorite resort. Special assessments are the norm now in trying to play catch-up. As the assessments kick in and fees finally are raised, I believe more owners will walk away (especially off-season owners). The owners and board are working hard. My tolerance threshold was finally reached. I couldn't hang in there anymore. Sometimes LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION just isn't enough. Too low maintenance fees is what brought this once beautiful resort in a prime location to the point of "no more" for me. I would have gladly paid a higher maintenance fee for my prime season weeks if the property hadn't been falling apart. Unfortunately, I am dealing with this same "low maintenance fee" mindset at another resort in the same area. The maintenance fee finally made it up to $550 this year for a 2BR/2BA. I would rather pay the average maintenance fee in the industry and have better maintained units with upgrades to the amenities. Of course I like the low maintenance fee, but also know that this low maintenance fee cannot support the maintenance and upgrades that are necessary to offer nice accommodations and infrastructure.

 

[uscav8r]

I just got a 3 Bedroom Presidential Unit (1884 square feet with upgraded everything) for a ski week at Smugglers Notch for the MF equivalent of just under $100/night.

Smuggs rents that out for almost $900/night!

I think I’m well below my pain threshold for timesharing!


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[WinniWoman]

I just got a 3 Bedroom Presidential Unit (1884 square feet with upgraded everything) for a ski week at Smugglers Notch for the MF equivalent of just under $100/night.

Smuggs rents that out for almost $900/night!

I think I’m well below my pain threshold for timesharing!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Presidentials at Owls at Smuggs are really nice. You will like them.

As for what Smuggs charges to rent them-$900 per night- no way worth it no matter how nice they may be.

 

[uscav8r]

The Presidentials at Owls at Smuggs are really nice. You will like them.

As for what Smuggs charges to rent them-$900 per night- no way worth it no matter how nice they may be.

Yeah, I kinda laughed when I saw that number. Even if they should really go for a third of that, I’m still making money! LOL


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[Jayco29D]

I do not mind paying high maintenance fees if the cost to rent far exceeds the maintenance fees. For example, the MFs for most tiemshares in Hawaii are about $2200 a week but the cost per night in the summer is at least $700-$1000 per night for great ocean view 2 bedrooms. In the Disney resorts, the maintenance fees are actually cheap compared to the cost of renting points or god forbid, renting directly from Disney or Expedia. You can pay up to $1700 for a 2 bedroom at Grand Cal, Aulani or Grand Floridian! So I only buy timeshares that I could not rent cheaply. Otherwise, I rent them.

 

[jl2010]

Right now I pay $559 for a fixed week, 1 bedroom in a very well maintained timeshare operation on Cape Cod during week 26.
My week rents for $279 a night+ taxes now if you can find a unit during Summer. $311 a night all in. So at $559 a week, I'm feeling good. I would be ok up to $1,000 for the week, but it's Cape Cod, so if that happened I think a lot of off peak owners would balk.
I own at the Cove At Yarmouth.

 

[Tank]

Reality is everything goes up year after year if well maintained. It costs a lot of money not allowing a home / resort to get "dated". I think most of us would be disappointed if we traded into one of the resorts that did not keep up.
I always say I'm a Holiday Inn kind of guy, mid + accommodation works for me.
In the 20 years mine has doubled from $500 to $1048.00 this year not including club dues/ and reservation fees. Our resort rents to anyone and many times I could rent directly from them cheaper, but not at prime vacation times. Of coarse tuggers would not pay the direct prices, but the public does. All these prime slots will be rented directly for those high end prices. Generally it's supply and demand that drives the price. Our resort for an example in Orlando is huge, and at Christmas the direct rent for a 2 bedroom, 7 nights they get $3800.00 and they will be sold out at that price. This week, 2 weeks later, you can get that same room for $1400 complete, directly. Lots of empty rooms and you probably could not rent your unit to break even.
I consider a good deal, if I were to rent from someone else, getting it at cost. Both parties should be happy in a pinch. Especially at prime weeks.

Tug has the reputation of economical weeks reading the bbs.

IMHO not for the timeshare owner but for the renter.
I don't think it started out this way over 20 years ago when it started. The need to have a "last minute" section with a $100 limit allowed timeshare owners to minimize lost or break even. Allowed renters to snag a great at cost deal once in a while.
I love this section, and definatly a need, we have all been in a spot when plans change.
Learning what I have over the years I bet a 2 bedroom unit most anywhere was not over $700.

Over the 20+ years at $100 a night with no change, it has taken a turn To bennifit the renter, not the owners. Thus exspectations are that these should never be over $700 for a week. Some thrive on others misfortunes. I see the same ones every year.

Red prime times would still be doing the renter a favor if that number were doubled. It would also do owners a favor. Giving the general public a true reality of the cost of timesharing. I think most the time the max could not be asked for last minute. At least it could be reasonable to both.

IMHO this is hurting more than helping us timeshare owners anyway. I know I could rent lower now saving money vs being a owner at this time.

IMHO - This one change would turn the dial back. People will still take vacations, and Less likely to become non- owners.

 

[bbakernbay]

Fascinating and excellent posts, thank you to everyone expressing their opinions.

We are in a very similar situation where our MFees jumped by $288 to the $790 range for a 2 bedroom in bad financial shape due to 50% delinquency and 3 years to go to 40 years Sunset.

We have 4 weeks and always use them but the real question for us is $3,200 for 4 weeks a reasonable amount for a decidedly unluxurious accommodations and amenities with poor reviews.

I have set up a post on the Florida Timesharing soliciting ideas and you may wish to review or comment there.

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...imeshare-expires-in-3-years-then-what.267677/

 

[pcgirl54]

I feel that I have reached my threshold now at $1351 for a great resort and brand I enjoy annually but factor in the per night fee almost $200 and what has changed in the market in how people travel and a lot are using air bnb or VRBO which I hear from coworkers and millenials. If I turned my week resort into the Marriott destination system I would not be able to reserve some of the weeks within my season that I book now because I would be short points and I would pay additional fees besides my MF which is not in my budget. I have also noticed resale prices are much lower than 9 years ago for the resorts I browsed recently. So unless you use your resort each year and many but if not and on occasion factor in the exchange company/and or extension fees etc which is another $200.