What can we do with a timeshare in an estate?

[dougp26364]

who cares..The message is for effect, the real message is that the estate wont pay the fees. The HOA only has two choice, accept a deed in lieu, or foreclose

For any organization that deals with estates, this won't have the desired effect. They'll already know their rights and will be running on a proven track to collect whatever they can collect. Once the estate is settled, there isn't likely to be anyone to bill. Unless the estate is complicated it should be settled long before next years MF's are due.

My recomendation is to get a qualified probate lawyer and let them handle the details. Sure it costs more than doing it yourself but, there's less headaches involved and you'll know it's been done right.

 

[Ridewithme38]

if your executor really thinks he/she needs 5 years to dispose of the timeshare (I don't know why that would be so)

I thought 5 Years was optimistic...Seems at this point alot of TS can't be even given away....ever

 

[dougp26364]

Hypothetical...

So IF the resort is unwilling to take a deed-back and the estate is unable to sell the TS...Lets assume in this hypothetical that its a poor TS with with a horrible fixed week that has a super high MF...The Estate has to continue to pay all future MF's until it is completely broke? What happens after the estate is completely broke, the homes, bank accounts have been wiped out all inheritance that would have went to the family...Who's Credit score is effected by the Foreclosure? the Executor of the Estate?

All states have different laws but, once the estate is closed there is no one to bill. MF's would not have to be paid past the estate closure.

There are procedures that must be followed such as giving appropriate notice. That might include sending letters to known creditors and/or placing adds in newspapers concerning the settlement of the estate. Creditors then have a specified time to respond and file claims against the estate for payment. Probate court should then validate these claims and determine what/who will be paid based upon the assets of the estate, the assets available to pay such claims and the heirchy of claims should there not be enough assets to pay all claims against the estate.

In my own personal experience, we had to notify all known creditors of my mothers estate and place adds in newspapers. Creditors then filed claims and those claims were paid before the estate was closed. One creditor actually failed to file a claim before the estate was closed. They contacted me one month AFTER the estate was closed. They were SOL and lost over $30,000 on what would have been a valid claim IF they had followed the probate courts instructions for filing a claim. Since they did not follow procedures for filing a claim against the estate, they had no recourse. They did have a lein against the property (a mobile home) and they were able to take posession through an expiditied foreclosure procedure. I would assume that HOA's would have to do the same if they did not accept the deed back from the estate.

I really don't believe this will be much of an issue if all procuders are followed accoring to the probate laws. Any MF's owed before the estate is settled or before the owner expired (not sure how the laws are written) will be billable to the estate. Any debts after the estate is settled won't be collectable if the estate is closed properly.

The trick is knowing how to do this properly so it doesn't come back to bite the heirs in the hind end.

 

[bogey21]

This is not a difficult problem with proper planning. As I have posted previously I gave all my assets of value to my ex-wife and children over 10 years ago. What remains in my estate are a couple of timeshare weeks, a car financed to the hilt, a couple of easy to dump racehorses, some furniture and fixtures, and a whole lot of personal debt. In short the estate will be insolvent from the get go. I live off a reasonably large pension and social security with Medicare and Secondary Insurance provided by my ex-employer.

George

 

[bilfbr245]

I think that there is a difference between good planning, and efforts to deliberately dump one's own obligations onto other members of society.

 

[bogey21]

The "dumping" is primarily on the Banks who have been charging me outrageous rates on Credit Card and Other Loans. This only indirectly impacts other members of society.

Yes, there are two timeshare weeks still in there. Others I have sold, given to my kids, and Deeded back to HOAs with their permission.

The purpose of this "plan" was to give me time (which now has exceeded 10 years) to unwind "junk" assests without those "assets" being a problem for my heirs had I died suddenly!

George

 

[Patri]

You agreed to the credit card interest rate when you got the card. Are you charging more than you can afford to pay off each month?

 

[bogey21]

You agreed to the credit card interest rate when you got the card. Are you charging more than you can afford to pay off each month?

Number One, they jacked the rates up on me over time; started reasonable; got me hooked; then raised rates.

Number Two, I am current on my payments but don't have the $$$$ to pay them off.

George

 

[crowmg]

You mean to tell me that there's still some people left that haven't put their timeshares in a LLC?


:hysterical:

I had not heard of putting your TS's in a LLC. Tell me more. Then what happens when you pass?

 

[Talent312]

... what happens when you pass?

If you have any family or friends left, there's a service of some kind.
Your spirit goes to heaven or hell, if you believe in that sort of thing.

Some say that your spirit remains earth-bound, until your TS is disposed of.

----------------------------
Your shares in the LLC are distributed to your heirs, unless dissolved according to its terms.

 

[bilfbr245]

If the estate owns the LLC, the estate would have to dispose of the LLC.


OK, now I see that Talent312 already answered this. I tried to delete the post but failed.

 

[sunshine4]

I guess I am not getting this ....if it goes to the heirs anyway what is the LLC benefit?

 

[AwayWeGo]

Think Of It As An Inside Joke.

I guess I am not getting this ....if it goes to the heirs anyway what is the LLC benefit?

The benefits are iffy to say the least.

Mentioning LLCs in this discussion topic is just a sly reference to an ongoing idea that crops up in virtually every TUG-BBS discussion of timeshare abandonment or timeshare fee default or timeshare inheritance.

Most participants don't think much of the idea, for practical reasons or ethical reasons or both.

By contrast, 1 participant without fail promotes the idea of putting timeshare ownership in an LLC as a potential means of getting away with ducking maintenance fees, if it ever comes to that. It's not clear whether the LLC fan has ever actually taken title to a timeshare that way.

So it goes.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[cadreamer]

We met with a lawyer recently to update our wills, and she seemed to think TS's in general are a problem when it comes to handing an estate.

The lawyer said that owning TS's is difficult matter for the executers to deal with in an estate, because they each have to be dealt with according to the probate laws in the city or state where they are located.

I am in Canada; the 3 TS I own are in the US. I plan to will them to family members, who would be fine with keeping up the MF and using them for yearly travel.

My question is: If the TS are deeded and I leave each of them to a specific family member...what would be involved for them to take over ownership as far as costs, paperwork, taxes, etc.?

 

[vckempson]

My question is: If the TS are deeded and I leave each of them to a specific family member...what would be involved for them to take over ownership as far as costs, paperwork, taxes, etc.?

Add their name to the deed now while you are alive and you are done. Joint ownership with rights of survivorship do not require any probating. When you pass, your children can either leave your names on the deeds and just keep on using them as their own, or they can provide a death certificate and request your name be removed. Again, no court involvement.

 

[Talent312]

In some states, the executor of your estate may need to file papers with the probate court where the TS's are located for "ancillary" administration to obtain an order for distribution and sign a deed that complies with local laws. He may need to hire local lawyers to help him with the process. However, some states will accept such an order and deed issued by another.

IOW, the cost could be recording+transfer fees only or several hundred, depending on the state in which the TS is located. It be far better to try to pass title outside of probate by:
-- adding the heir's name to each deed as a co-owner with right of survivorship;
-- giving it to them outright; or
-- creating a trust.

 

[nazclk]

Credit Score

When I am dead I don't care if my credit score is 0 :hysterical:

 

[Dave*H]

Add their name to the deed now while you are alive and you are done. Joint ownership with rights of survivorship do not require any probating. When you pass, your children can either leave your names on the deeds and just keep on using them as their own, or they can provide a death certificate and request your name be removed. Again, no court involvement.

This route takes away two options:

• Change you mind without your child's consent. What if you want to leave the unit to child B instead of child A? If you've already added child A to the deed, you need them to sign off on the change.
• Allow you child to refuse the inheritance. If the timeshare has become worthless, perhaps they don't want it.

If you are expecting to die in the next couple of days, these items may not be an issue, but over a year or more, things may change. A trust would probably be a better way to go.

 

[vckempson]

This route takes away two options:

• Change you mind without your child's consent. What if you want to leave the unit to child B instead of child A? If you've already added child A to the deed, you need them to sign off on the change.
• Allow you child to refuse the inheritance. If the timeshare has become worthless, perhaps they don't want it.

If you are expecting to die in the next couple of days, these items may not be an issue, but over a year or more, things may change. A trust would probably be a better way to go.

That obviously depends on the relationship with your child. A trust is not without costs, both to set up and to administer. Those costs are also not insignificant. If you're in a mini-system, there may be advantages to adding your children's names. For my Wyndham points, my 3 children are on the deeds, so we don't need a guest certificate if they use a week.

Edit: To put a number on this, you could spend several hundred to a grand to set up the trust and $300 - 600 a year for the trust tax return. These figures lean toward the low end of the scale. Just thinking here... you could have a testamentary trust (one created at death) for the express purpose of buying the timeshares from your children if they wish to sell. As beneficiaries to the trust, they could then disclaim any interest in the trust. Then you wouldn't have any ongoing trust adminstration during life. Disclaimers only take you so far, though, because the estate still has to deal with the disposition of the TS.

 

[Talent312]

This is going to sound rather crass...
We recently bought a TS in Tennessee, ostensibly so my DW can visit her relates in the area.
She seems to think that her kids (my stepsons) will want to use it when they inherit. Hardly.

They won't say it to her face, but they have no interest in their Tennessee aunts, uncles or cousins, and would rather have nothing to do with it. They said, "If mom goes first, please get rid of your TS's, and especially that one."

 

[JeffW]

As as separate thread, it would be interested to see who many inherited timeshares, and of those, what percentage:

- kept and enjoy having it
- still have it, but wish they didn't
- got rid of it

Jeff

 

[Greg G]

Some say that your spirit remains earth-bound, until your TS is disposed of.

I can just see on Ghost Hunters in one of the on camera member interviews where they're explaining some aspect of the paranormal.

"... the theory is spirits can become earth bound when there is a sudden violent death, or when there is unfinished business, such as when a timeshare has not been disposed of ...."

Greg

 

[Talent312]

I can just see on Ghost Hunters in one of the on camera member interviews where they're explaining some aspect of the paranormal.

"... the theory is spirits can become earth bound... when a timeshare has not been disposed of ...."

I was thinking more of an episode of the (late) "Ghost Whisperer" in which Jennifer Love Hewitt does a TS presentation and quickly realizes that there are way too many former owners still on the premises begging for her help.

 

[bjones9942]

I was thinking more of an episode of the (late) "Ghost Whisperer" in which Jennifer Love Hewitt does a TS presentation and quickly realizes that there are way too many former owners still on the premises begging for her help.

LOL! That's too funny!

 

[thinze3]

Read this thread and never saw the answer to a real potential problem.

Suppose an estate has only $10K cash and one worthless timeshare with all fees paid to date. Suppose that timeshare cannot be given away to anyone, not even the developer. The heirs do not want it either.

Is the estate required to PAY whatever is necessary to dispose of the timeshare? I have heard that disposal of timeshares this way can sometimes cost thousands of dollars. If so, does it have to be done before the remaining disbursements are made.

... OR can disbursements be made of the $10K and the timeshare be abandoned?