WDW Owner’s Update: Bought Westin Flex. Need advice!

[vacationtime1]

You are right, Nanea is on a different plan and not in Flex. I agree it won't have resale value anywhere close to WKORV north or south. I would put it significantly less. But I suspect it will fall between where Nanea Home Options and comparable resale value of Princeville.

It will ultimately depend on the experience of owners getting (or not getting) the reservations they want. I suspect that the Westin Flex Trust will have too many off-season Palm Desert weeks and not enough Hawaii. And we know that none of the Hawaii weeks will be ocean front (Princeville doesn't have OF and Vistana is not putting WKORV/N OF weeks into this trust). Further, the trust has no good way to get Kierland weeks other than buying them on the open market because Vistana does not have ROFR on Kierland. The fact that Vistana is not aggressively buying Kierland platinum weeks, even at current sub-$15K prices, makes me question how Vistana plans to populate the trust with the weeks it will need, because I don't see Kierland owners as likely to trade their deeds (and pay money) to get Westin Flex points when they can already get any of the Westin Flex properties using StarOptions and MF's for the trust appear to be at least 50% higher than for Kierland.

The sales staff will undoubtedly push the benefit of being able to reserve at the 12 month mark rather than at 8 months, but there is NO WAY this trust will have enough summer and vacation weeks in Hawaii to meet the demand, just as it will not have ski weeks at Riverfront to meet the demand for ski weeks which is the other "sizzle" of the Westin Flex trust.

 

[DannyTS]

I suspect that the Westin Flex Trust will have too many off-season Palm Desert weeks and not enough Hawaii. And we know that none of the Hawaii weeks will be ocean front (Princeville doesn't have OF and Vistana is not putting WKORV/N OF weeks into this trust).

I think that people that buy into Westin flex should be shown some data to prove that the reservation in the places they want is not going to be a problem. It is a bit like buying a cell phone plan from a new carrier without knowing if they have coverage in your area. If booking is not a problem, the package you got seems like a decent proposal especially given the improved flexibility and easier management for you. I still think that a price within a 11-13k would be more tempting to me if I were in your shoes.

I would insist though part of the deal to have a FOC guaranteed inclusion if any MVDC is offered in the future to Westin Flex owners. I think that legally they cannot do it since the takeover has not happened yet but I would hate to spend all that new money just to find out that there is a new offer on the table 18 months from now. Even if it is a stretch, i would still ask the question just to hear their answer.

 

[lizap]

I think that people that buy into Westin flex should be shown some data to prove that the reservation in the places they want is not going to be a problem. It is a bit like buying a cell phone plan from a new carrier without knowing if they have coverage in your area. If booking is not a problem, the package you got seems like a decent proposal especially given the improved flexibility and easier management for you. I still think that a price within a 11-13k would be more tempting to me if I were in your shoes.

I would insist though part of the deal to have a FOC guaranteed inclusion if any MVDC is offered in the future to Westin Flex owners. I think that legally they cannot do it since the takeover has not happened yet but I would hate to spend all that new money just to find out that there is a new offer on the table 18 months from now. Even if it is a stretch, i would still ask the question just to hear their answer.

The big issue here is what MVC will do with FLEX. I don't know how FLEX is doing, but many believe a similar Hyatt program, PPP, is a flop/not selling well. My guess is MVC will allow Hyatt and Vistana members to buy into MVC, or a similar program, at a nominal cost, similar to what they did at Marriott. Pretty sure there are going to be changes to the Hyatt and Vistana systems. This will greatly devalue FLEX. Would not touch FLEX, unless you are a big gambler.

 

[pchung6]

If your goal is to use Westin Flex to book Maui at 12 months, I would lower the expectation. I do not believe there will be enough Maui units available in Flex. Let's assume most of the Flex have the same thoughts to book at 12 months, the chance may not be higher than using Staroptions to book at 8 months mark. I also believe the Westin Flex will have most of these low season Palm Desert weeks and not enough Hawaii. I would rescind and just buy 3 SVV Bella 81k instead, low buy in and lower HOA. At least, I would try to get an 148k deed week requal in your deal if you decide to keep...

 

[bogey21]

Below is my timeshares they bought back from me for $70K
-SVR 2BR annual
-SVV St. Augustine 2BR LO annual
-SDO 2BR LO 1-52 float EOY
-SMV 1BR Ski season EOY
-WKV 2BR LO Gold Plus EOY (81,000 SOs)

First let me state that I know nothing at all about Westin Flex. Having said this let me say that the ability to get out of the 5 timeshares listed above, their MFs, and the hassle of dealing with and ultimately disposing of them would have a positive impact on my decision.

George

 

[duke]

I think the OP did well on the deal though and in the end shouldn’t worry so much about resale but usage.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He did not do well on the deal if his goal was to book WKORV - WKORVN at 12 months and get OV.
These Flex Pools are filled with small amounts of WKORV and mostly IV.
Will be great if he wants to go to Palm Springs in the Summer though.

 

[Sicnarf]

So, there has been a lot of speculations about the flex products not having the "good" inventory to back it up. Sheraton flex has been out for 2+ years and I haven't heard of any complaints with people not getting reservations at 12 months. I do hear bunch of existing WKORV and WKORVN owners not able to book at 12 months. Anyway that's my 2 cents having converted a bunch of svv 67k VOIs to Sheraton flexx.

 

[pchung6]

First let me state that I know nothing at all about Westin Flex. Having said this let me say that the ability to get out of the 5 timeshares listed above, their MFs, and the hassle of dealing with and ultimately disposing of them would have a positive impact on my decision.

George

I'm pretty sure most of these 5 timeshares can be unloaded.

-SVR 2BR annual (Might be difficult to give away depending on the season)
-SVV St. Augustine 2BR LO annual (If Platinum season, can give away.)
-SDO 2BR LO 1-52 float EOY (Can give away)
-SMV 1BR Ski season EOY (Can "Easily" give away)
-WKV 2BR LO Gold Plus EOY (81,000 SOs) (Can give away, might have some value)

 

[Gatorlaw230]

I am not desperately seeking to unload these timeshares I own (if I rescind this deal) because we are enjoying our portfolio so far. Since I have 2 little kids, we go to Orlando annually with families or friends, love baseball to go to SDO in Spring (every other year), go to ski every other year and use 81,000 SOs to book elsewhere for short stays. I just felt that 81K SOs EOY is too little for us (to try Bahama or Hawaii), and it was hard to book Hawaii week at 8 months out. (Maybe I was not lucky. If I were more flexible for dates, I might be able to get it at 8 months out.) That was why I was interested in this deal.
Also, I thought that managing points will be a lot easier than managing all weeks. For Orlando and/or Scottsdale, I normally stay only 4-5 nights and always lost a few nights unused.

But I am not sure whether $18K upfront cost could be justified for this and unsure about future with upcoming changes with Marriott.

I am now leaning toward to rescind this contract, instead buy SVV mandatory week (81K SOs) when I see a good deal (under $1000) and will give away one of my Orlando week to my friend. (or fellow Tuggers here)

Thank you all. I thought that I am pretty knowledgeable about timeshares and its system, but I need to learn more from veteran Tuggers!

 

[taterhed]

I am not desperately seeking to unload these timeshares I own (if I rescind this deal) because we are enjoying our portfolio so far. Since I have 2 little kids, we go to Orlando annually with families or friends, love baseball to go to SDO in Spring (every other year), go to ski every other year and use 81,000 SOs to book elsewhere for short stays. I just felt that 81K SOs EOY is too little for us (to try Bahama or Hawaii), and it was hard to book Hawaii week at 8 months out. (Maybe I was not lucky. If I were more flexible for dates, I might be able to get it at 8 months out.) That was why I was interested in this deal.
Also, I thought that managing points will be a lot easier than managing all weeks. For Orlando and/or Scottsdale, I normally stay only 4-5 nights and always lost a few nights unused.

But I am not sure whether $18K upfront cost could be justified for this and unsure about future with upcoming changes with Marriott.

I am now leaning toward to rescind this contract, instead buy SVV mandatory week (81K SOs) when I see a good deal (under $1000) and will give away one of my Orlando week to my friend. (or fellow Tuggers here)

Thank you all. I thought that I am pretty knowledgeable about timeshares and its system, but I need to learn more from veteran Tuggers!

Sounds like a good plan......but here's another thought.

I think you've got a bit of the 'VSE blinders.' You're considering investing some more money into a vacation asset to allow you to reach a destination which requires more SO's than you have. Sounds like you need 'home' priority as well; or a similar advantage.

Consider expanding into a different brand of timeshare that meets your destination goals and might allow you better access to Hawaii and the Caribbean. Of course I'm suggesting Marriott, but Worldmark is also a good suggestion. Prices on Marriott are very good right now and they offer some excellent options for both locales. Also, Marriott preference can allow some great exchanges in II and Eplus can get sweet upgrades. Worldmark has very good Hawaii resorts (not 4-5 star, but nice) and, more importantly, offers access to both RCI and II and can get some great trades. Really. The liberal cancellation policy allows you to book at 12 mos, search and then cancel if you get a match. Lot's of different strategies, but really, a good affordable and flexible trader with some nice resorts.

Just a thought.....

 

[LobsterHunter]

Not trying to push Westin Flex, and I'm still not sure if we will be able to get any good ski weeks at WRF, but we just bought two Westin Flex 148,100 packages for $16K (trading in 2 VBC that we paid $1/ea for, and 1 WKORN EY and 1 WKORN EOY) and retro'd in a 148,100 SDO & SMV (also posted this on the retro thread). I was skeptical about the Maui availability in summer with WF. Just checked today and I could book a 2br L/O at either WKOR or WKORN for 2 weeks checking in June 22 '19, or even longer if I wanted to stay in a 1br or studio, and this was at 1700 EST (not 0000.01 EST...or 1 second after midnight). Anyway, the availability may not be as bad as some are making it sound, BUT the MF's are no cheaper the WKORN.

 

[pacman777]

Not trying to push Westin Flex, and I'm still not sure if we will be able to get any good ski weeks at WRF, but we just bought two Westin Flex 148,100 packages for $16K (trading in 2 VBC that we paid $1/ea for, and 1 WKORN EY and 1 WKORN EOY) and retro'd in a 148,100 SDO & SMV (also posted this on the retro thread). I was skeptical about the Maui availability in summer with WF. Just checked today and I could book a 2br L/O at either WKOR or WKORN for 2 weeks checking in June 22 '19, or even longer if I wanted to stay in a 1br or studio, and this was at 1700 EST (not 0000.01 EST...or 1 second after midnight). Anyway, the availability may not be as bad as some are making it sound, BUT the MF's are no cheaper the WKORN.

So your net cash outlay total was $16k for 396.2k staroptions and you were able to retro two other voluntary resorts for another 396.2k staroptions? So now you have 782.4k staroptions all for $16k out of pocket? Sounds like a great deal if that is the case

 

[dsmrp]

So your net cash outlay total was $16k for 396.2k staroptions and you were able to retro two other voluntary resorts for another 396.2k staroptions? So now you have 782.4k staroptions all for $16k out of pocket? Sounds like a great deal if that is the case

A typo perhaps in your numbers, 296.2K options rather than 396.2 for a total of 592.4K options.
Still sounds pretty good to me.

I think Vistana let pacman777 trade in 2 VBC units cause he had WKORN to trade in too.

 

[canesfan]

I don’t view turning in 2 mandatory deeds that have resale value into Westin Flex voluntary as a positive. But YMMV!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[LobsterHunter]

I don’t view turning in 2 mandatory deeds that have resale value into Westin Flex voluntary as a positive. But YMMV!


Well, I guess it's too early to tell. The mandatory deeds probably only have a $15k combined value. I know Sheraton Flex does not have much value, but I believe the Westin Flex will have more value then a Platinum WMH or WDW which seem to be in the $3-5K range. My observation was that the dire predictions of no summer weeks being available in Hawaii under WF, does not appear to be true. IF the WF is only worth $8k resale tomorrow, I could sell 1 & come out ahead of where I was, or sell both & be way ahead. I have not found any resale WF, so I don't know. But then I almost certainly wouldn't be able to book 4 consecutive summer weeks in Hawaii (2 weeks ea in a studio/1br) which I can do with WF, but not with SO or even owning there, w/the exception of doing that EOY at WKORN only w/4 different reser #'s. What I did may not work for some, but it works for us.

 

[KACTravels]

I am now leaning toward to rescind this contract, instead buy SVV mandatory week (81K SOs) when I see a good deal (under $1000) and will give away one of my Orlando week to my friend. (or fellow Tuggers here)

Thank you all. I thought that I am pretty knowledgeable about timeshares and its system, but I need to learn more from veteran Tuggers!

Hi Gatorlaw230! What did you end up doing?

 

[cubigbird]

What’s interesting is that I attended an owners update recently and the sales person told me that Westin Flex is mostly Hawaii weeks. Additionally they stated that you can book any week at any time and that’s why EVERYONE is converting. I countered asking to book weeks like Riverfront at New Years and Kierland during spring training. They said you can do it easily, I asked them to then put it in writing......of course they didn’t. Be careful, there is a lot of misrepresentation of Westin Flex going on.....

 

[DavidnRobin]

VSE can’t sell more inventory that they own. The Flex inventory will be limited in Maui based on the number of WKORV/N VOIs that are turned into Flex, or acquired thru ROFR.

Are a lot of WKORV/N Owners exchanging their VOIs into Flex? I doubt it. What is the benefit? To go to lessor Resorts?

 

[controller1]

VSE can’t sell more inventory that they own. The Flex inventory will be limited in Maui based on the number of WKORV/N VOIs that are turned into Flex, or acquired thru ROFR.

Are a lot of WKORV/N Owners exchanging their VOIs into Flex? I doubt it. What is the benefit? To go to lessor Resorts?

There must be enough of them exchanging their VOIs into Flex. I didn't exchange a VOI into Flex but I do own Westin Flex and I've been checking every few days to check on availability and there has been no problem in finding WKORV/N availability at the 11-12 month range.

 

[cubigbird]

I wonder how many folks are trading in thinking they will get access to Hawaii whenever they want??? They are going to be in for quite a shock. Salespeople are leading folks to believe they are going to stop allowing silver and gold season weeks to trade in at some point.

 

[dioxide45]

It seems the sales pitch is working. They were pretty agressive trying to get us to turn in our mandatory SVV weeks and buy some Sheraton Flex points. I think they see this as the way to kill the mandatory resales.

 

[controller1]

It seems the sales pitch is working. They were pretty agressive trying to get us to turn in our mandatory SVV weeks and buy some Sheraton Flex points. I think they see this as the way to kill the mandatory resales.

Yes, buy Sheraton Flex is much different than Westin Flex. You're not going to be making a Home Resort reservation in Maui with Sheraton Flex.

 

[vacationtime1]

Yes, buy Sheraton Flex is much different than Westin Flex. You're not going to be making a Home Resort reservation in Maui with Sheraton Flex.

Correct, but Sheraton Flex will have a Hawaii property -- on Kauai. Sheraton Flex will then boast of a ski property and a Hawaii property. Although most of the units actually owned by that trust are on the east coast.

 

[blondietink]

We will be staying at SVV for a whole 3 nights in October. I'm sure they will be hounding us to attend an update. Nope, not this time and I will tell them that with the uncertainty with the merger, we will not be attending any updates in the near future.

 

[undercover]

Question for the experts:

I am currently at Kierland and went for an owners update yesterday.

I currently own:

2 weeks in a 2 BR lockoff EOY at Westin Princeville Ocean Resort Villas that we paid $48,900 from the developer during construction in ~2007. I wish I had found TUG back then. It's actually 2 separate deeds - I bought one for $24,450 and my father bought one for $24,450 but my father is willing to deal if the situation is right, so for the sake of this conversation, just assume both deeds are mine. Our MFs are approximately $1,675 per year (EVERY YEAR) even though we only have an EOY deed...so MFs of $3,350 total every 2 years for EACH deed.

So at the owners update, they were really pushing the Westin Flex program. Apparently Nanea has recently been added to the FLEX portfolio and the salesman was "suggesting" that St. John would most likely be added later this year (but no guarantees).

They proposed that we trade in BOTH deeds. We would get credit for the $48,900 original sales price, and they asked us to kick in 10K in cash.

In return, we would now get:
- 162K StarOptions EVERY YEAR (right now we're getting 296,200 EOY)

OR

- 281K StarOptions EVERY OTHER YEAR

- MFs would be "about the same" as what we're now paying every year

His sales pitch was basically this: Right now, I can ONLY book my home resort (WPORV) at 12 months out. Anything else, I can only hope to book at 8 months out. With the FLEX program, I can now book ANY of the FLEX properties at 12 months out. So in theory, I could book at WKORV, WKORV-N, Nanea, WPORV, blah, blah, blah at peak times - Christmas, New Year, spring break, etc because ALL of the properties in the FLEX program are considered now to be my home Resort.

With the caveat that WKORV and WKORV-N still have separate Christmas inventory, so actually those properties cannot be booked at Christmas. However he made a big point to say that Nanea was like all the others and did NOT have those Christmas week exceptions.

So, after reading ALOT of blog posts on TUG tonight, it sounds like the consensus is that owning WPORV (which I do) pretty much sucks. It's not a "mandatory" property, the demand is low, and the chances to rent the property for top dollar are slim.

So even though the FLEX program isn't great because it loses the StarOptions upon resale, I don't really hold any illusions that I'll ever be able to re-sell any of these things - FLEX or what I currently own. So I just want to own the best thing that allows me access to the best properties at the most desired times. Is forking over another 10K to these con artists worth the anticipated upside or should I just keep trudging along with the crap I've got? Thanks.