Warning to Timeshare Sellers about Redweek Full Service

[md8287]

One big issue I find with just about any listing, not just full service, is things like not listing the specific week or unit number. I HATE listings that just shows week as floating and unit as floating, or varies. I want to know exactly what I am buying and it is listed on just about every estoppel. In my opinion I should never see a full service listing without the exact week and unit number that is on the deed.

In my opinion the listing actually should not include unit number and week. I think the seller and full service should have that for follow up but putting in the listing, in my opinion, is too much detail and open to scams.

 

[md8287]

Maurice,
My second point is about redacting your estoppels. You are too caught up in technology. KISS - Print out the estoppel, take a black magic marker and black out all the info you need to redact and then scan the result back into a pdf. No worries
Cheers,

Vic

I like KISS. if you don’t print and magic marker, a technological way could be to black out on pdf then print the pdf to a saved redacted pdf. I’m pretty sure that fresh document can’t be exposed. If you just save the pdf with blacked out info it can be unmasked.

 

[md8287]

Some thoughts.

First, it should be impossible for you to not receive a response. All inquiries go into our ticketing system and have to be resolved. So unless a team member is just closing tickets willy-nilly, you should get a response. If that's not happening, we need to figure out why. I haven't found a case where a ticket was closed without a response yet. If anyone can PM me their RedWeek username and posting ID or rough date that they made the inquiry, I'd like to find one. Maybe it's a spam filter issue or a problem with deliverability to or from our ticketing platform. I will protect your privacy on here, of course.

In terms for the response delays, I was thinking about it, and the 3-day lag doesn't surprise me. Because we now have three people communicating by email. Assume it takes us on average one day to forward a question to an owner. A day for the owner to reply back. And a day for us to forward it back to the requester. 3 days. Obviously if the stars align, it could be much quicker. But what if the owner takes > 24 hours (which is very likely since, after all, they delegated the job to us)?

I just read through one case. We asked the owner the status of 2018 maintenance fees by email. It was four days before they responded (and we had to end up calling them).

So it seems like the way to improve that is to 1) not have to contact the owner and 2) if we do, try to do it by phone or text message early on rather than as a last resort.

We can improve #1 by having as much of the info as possible up-front. This maintenance fee issue is clearly a common one, and maybe it isn't surprising that we're talking about it in early March. We have all of the late 2017 inventory up but without the 2018 maintenance fee updates. We do request updates, but I'm not sure how many responses we get.

One thing we're intending to do is list the year the maintenance fee was recorded. At least then, when you're looking through, you can see the fee is for the prior year.

Related to that is the question of inaccurate maintenance fees. In several cases, the reason why there was a discrepancy was due to various things being tacked on. e.g., the ARDA $5 voluntary contribution (which is on the estoppel), other fees that the owner wants reimbursed, etc. We're no longer doing that. From now on, the maintenance fee will just be the maintenance fee. Anything else will be listed in the description. We're going to go back and update existing postings to follow that rule but it will take some time.

In terms of closing costs, we're always happy to use an alternate closing company if the buyer prefers. We just want to make sure they're legit. It's not a profit center for us. We're happy to steer people to the lowest cost provider. I want us to look at our messaging and make sure we're clear that you can always suggest an alternate closing company.

I also agree with the idea of providing a sense of closing costs up-front on the posting itself. The only question is whether it will put full-service resale postings at a disadvantage to DIY postings. We have no requirement to list those details on DIY postings (and many owners probably have no idea anyway). So, for the less-educated buyer, would they tend to prefer a DIY posting over a full-service simply because the full-service one lists a bunch of additional fees that the DIY one doesn't?

The other thing that's been discussed is our failure to mention important details related to various programs (e.g., StarOptions or Bluegreen Trust). We need to develop our expertise on those programs. We have hired quite a few new people, so I'm sure it's a learning curve for them. That will be a priority though.

There's been the suggestion that we provide the estoppels, since that provides all the details anyway (when they're completed correctly . I'm a little ambivalent about that. I know some people prefer using the full-service option specifically because they want to maintain their privacy until an agreement is made.

We could redact the personal info on the estoppels but that's a bit error-prone and time consuming. I just tried redacting the info on one of the PDFs. Some of the personal info was still available in the meta data of the file, so it was more work than just blacking out fields. Maybe we could redact it and convert it to an image.

We'll continue working on this. Please feel free to PM me details of your interactions with RedWeek if you feel they're subpar.

Maurice

Great efforts! While I have experienced great and poor results let me please point out that the results I received on a full service Wyndham listing from Janet at Timeshare Resale Partners on R755485 was stellar. That should be a model as it was fast and she knew the listing.

 

[dioxide45]

In my opinion the listing actually should not include unit number and week. I think the seller and full service should have that for follow up but putting in the listing, in my opinion, is too much detail and open to scams.

Perhaps, but those are the details that are most important to me. I am not going to bother sending a message to a full service (or perhaps any listing) to ask for the information. I just skip it and move on.

 

[kukenan]

In my opinion the listing actually should not include unit number and week. I think the seller and full service should have that for follow up but putting in the listing, in my opinion, is too much detail and open to scams.

Maybe not unit number, but "no week" is like selling a car by brand, i.e. I'm selling a Toyota $45k.

Week is basic and required information when you are buying.

 

[Linden]

I fell unit number is important also. Units at some resorts are not all the same.

 

[md8287]

Maybe not unit number, but "no week" is like selling a car by brand, i.e. I'm selling a Toyota $45k.

Week is basic and required information when you are buying.

Good point if you are talking about a fixed week unit. If it’s a float within a season all I care is the season. Maybe it’s just me.

 

[kukenan]

Good point if you are talking about a fixed week unit. If it’s a float within a season all I care is the season. Maybe it’s just me.

True, I think part of the problem is the BIG and different numbers of systems, float weeks, fixed weeks, seasons, points, phases. Even inside each system there are differences, Marriott, Hilton, Wyndham, Vistana, Hyatt and on. It's not easy.

 

[mla]

Maurice,

A couple of points for you to consider.

In the Canadian Military we use a term that you need to become familiar with, it's called "managing expectations" I think this will help curb a lot of the frustration on the part of people making inquiries. You say that when you get an inquiry that you forward it to the owner and once you get a response you then reply to the inquiry. As you have stated this can take several days or a week. In order to "manage expectations" then here his what I suggest. The same day you get the inquiry, you reply stating that you have forwarded question on to the owner for clarification and you will get back to them with an answer as soon as you receive it. This lets the person making the inquiry know that their question hasn't fallen on deaf ears and that a response will be forthcoming as soon as the info in available. The same could be done with respect to closing costs. Simply state that if you use our full service closing costs are $x.xx but if you wish to pursue you own closing then that is acceptable too.

My second point is about redacting your estoppels. You are too caught up in technology. KISS - Print out the estoppel, take a black magic marker and black out all the info you need to redact and then scan the result back into a pdf. No worries about electronic anything!

Thank you, Vic, great points. I hadn't considered physically printing the estoppels. Doh

 

[mla]

One big issue I find with just about any listing, not just full service, is things like not listing the specific week or unit number. I HATE listings that just shows week as floating and unit as floating, or varies. I want to know exactly what I am buying and it is listed on just about every estoppel. In my opinion I should never see a full service listing without the exact week and unit number that is on the deed.

Can anyone show me an example of this? IOW, a posting where you know it should be a specific week or unit number, but is instead listed as floating/varies?

I brought it up with with the team and they said when we list something as floating, it really does float. There's usually a "home" unit, but in terms of use, it's much more important to know that it can float. Disagree?

For the less sophisticated buyer, we wouldn't want to list *only* the unit number and week in this case, right? That's misleading. It sounds like we'd instead need to list both: the specific week/unit number, and the floating ability.

 

[mla]

In my opinion the listing actually should not include unit number and week. I think the seller and full service should have that for follow up but putting in the listing, in my opinion, is too much detail and open to scams.

What do we think about this? It makes sense to me to at least have the week number. But do we think having the unit number is a privacy concern? How is that exploited? Looking up public records and then trying to contact the owner directly?

 

[dioxide45]

All the information on the deeds is public information anyway. I don't see how buying a timeshare is any different than buying residential real estate. You put it up for sale, your name really should be out there as the seller. I should be able to research the deed and check the title myself. That is why unit and week number are good information to have as I can see if there are any outstanding liens myself or if there is broken chain of title somewhere. Now this is of course no replacement for title insurance, it is good to use to do my own due diligence.

I guess part of the concern is protecting sellers from scams, and I can understand that. However since Redweek charges a membership fee, that tends to keep most scammers away. There are easier free targets for them to go after.

 

[Free2Roam]

What do we think about this? It makes sense to me to at least have the week number. But do we think having the unit number is a privacy concern? How is that exploited? Looking up public records and then trying to contact the owner directly?

I agree that listing the week number is a must... unit number should be provided upon request.

 

[Linden]

Unit number should be provided. The less I have to send in request the better.

 

[md8287]

I agree that listing the week number is a must... unit number should be provided upon request.

Clearly lots of strong opinions. Mine remains that it it is a float week system then week number is meaningless. I’m happy to sell my week 52 in a floating system at a healthy premium but you probably will never get week 52. You will get a platinum plus week and that is what I’m advertising.

 

[tschwa2]

Clearly lots of strong opinions. Mine remains that it it is a float week system then week number is meaningless. I’m happy to sell my week 52 in a floating system at a healthy premium but you probably will never get week 52. You will get a platinum plus week and that is what I’m advertising.

Sometimes a person will say or think they own in a certain season and the estoppel might even be wrong but having he unit number (to verify view category) and week number to verify float season is just another double check. I have seen ads on both redweek and ebay that might say something like platinum season floats 25-33 but the deeded week number is week 35. Obviously something is wrong there. Some systems have extra priority to deeded week and the owner may not know this. If a person says, I know it floats but I am interested in knowing the actual deeded number there usually is a reason for this that the broker and owner may not be aware of but it is a valid reason. I don't think it necessarily needs to be on the ad itself but should be given if requested.

 

[Free2Roam]

Clearly lots of strong opinions. Mine remains that it it is a float week system then week number is meaningless. I’m happy to sell my week 52 in a floating system at a healthy premium but you probably will never get week 52. You will get a platinum plus week and that is what I’m advertising.

Yes...I agree with you... if it's a floating week, the week# on the deed may be meaningless. But if it's a fixed week, that should be listed, and I'm fine contacting the seller for unit number if not listed.

What's most important of all is that buyers do due diligence and know what they're buying.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Request: Would it be possible for the moderator to change the title of this thread because it is misleading. This service certainly has growing pains but titling the thread with "warning" is over-stated because this is a legitimate service not a scam akin to some timeshare selling services.

IMHO...It is in the best interest of owners to enable a service like Redweek Verified to exist because the alternative is either: DIY/For Sale By Owner. (some people are not equipped or are not willing to take the risk of buying this way, sellers want to avoid tire kicker calls and loss of privacy prior to knowing if a buyer is legitimate.) or 2) selling through a broker which is expensive (15% vs. approx. 3.5% on Redweek Verified). Redweek Verified (with the growing pains fixed) provides a third alternative for owners to sell.

FYI...I have no affiliation with Redweek Verified other than I have used the service.

 

[kukenan]

Can the moderator please change the title of this thread as it is misleading. This service certainly has growing pains but titling the thread with "warning" is over stated because this is a legitimate service not a scam akin to some timeshare selling services.

IMHO...It is in the best interest of owners to enable a service like Redweek Verified to exist because the alternative is either: DIY/For Sale By Owner. (some people are not equipped or are willing to take the risk of buying this way, sellers want to avoid tire kicker calls and loss of privacy prior to knowing if a buyer is legitimate.) or 2) selling through a broker which is expensive (15% vs. approx. 3.5% on Redweek Verified). Redweek Verified (with the growing pains fixed) provides a third alternative for owners to sell.

FYI...I have no affiliation with Redweek Verified other than I have used the service.

True, this thread turned into feedback to Redweek on how to improve the full service listings.

 

[Mosescan]

Request: Would it be possible for the moderator to change the title of this thread because it is misleading. This service certainly has growing pains but titling the thread with "warning" is over stated because this is a legitimate service not a scam akin to some timeshare selling services.

IMHO...It is in the best interest of owners to enable a service like Redweek Verified to exist because the alternative is either: DIY/For Sale By Owner. (some people are not equipped or are not willing to take the risk of buying this way, sellers want to avoid tire kicker calls and loss of privacy prior to knowing if a buyer is legitimate.) or 2) selling through a broker which is expensive (15% vs. approx. 3.5% on Redweek Verified). Redweek Verified (with the growing pains fixed) provides a third alternative for owners to sell.

FYI...I have no affiliation with Redweek Verified other than I have used the service.

Agreed. I’d should start “feedback from” instead of “warning to”

 

[iwanttoflyaway]

Just wanted to put in my vote for more information given over less - in terms of maintenance fees / year applicable, as well as week/unit number. I'd love to see the estoppel being made available either as a rule or by request. I don't see any real potential scammer issue, though perhaps I don't think evilly enough.

I'm glad to see Redweek as interested as they seem in improving the value of their service. I like their goal and I hope they continue to improve.

 

[mla]

I'd love to see the estoppel being made available either as a rule or by request.

We are now providing estoppels by request. The first one is going out shortly.

 

[jacknsara]

What do we think about this? It makes sense to me to at least have the week number. But do we think having the unit number is a privacy concern? How is that exploited? Looking up public records and then trying to contact the owner directly?

Maurice
Sorry to be late responding to this question. I'll describe the situation for Kauai Beach Villas where we own several weeks. Many years ago (maybe 13) when we began accumulating resales on ebay, many listings that claimed to be ocean front did not include the interval control number (ICN) in the listing. The ICN does identify the specific building, apartment number and week number that appears on the deed for floating (and occasionally fixed) units. Only certain apartments are ocean front and only owners of ocean front units can reserve ocean front units. Upon further inquiry, we commonly discovered that the ICN for the unit being sold was not ocean front. One time, a unit was advertised as not being ocean front but the ICN was an ocean front unit - we bought it cheap for the time (expensive at today's prices). I shared this information several times on TUG. Perhaps it made an impact, because over time, more and more ebay listings include at least the apartment number if not the week number. Since Kauai Beach Villas does not have seasons, the week number is far less important than the apartment number.
Jack

 

[AZLatin5]

We are now providing estoppels by request. The first one is going out shortly.

But you are charging the buyer for them? Even though you already have it

 

[AZLatin5]

The same issues are occurring with redweek full service as mentioned throughout this thread. The “agent” I was working with took days to respond and then a new person responded and said Sergio no longer works here. Now after I made an offer the agent came back and said the points and use might be different then what’s listed and would change the whole offer so she’ll get back with me! My original inquiry was 3 weeks ago! She did say they are short staffed but very sketch!
I do want to add that because of this post I did request an estoppel,which I was then told would cost me $25. I also requested to us LT transfers instead of their closing which was quoted at $430.