Vistana Now Part of Marriott Vacations Worldwide

[Ken555]

Again, 2006 is something else. A lot of the Lagunamar qualities have to be seen, pre-sales does not count IMO. Also, how can you guarantee what the pre-sales would have been at other resorts if they had initially been allocated a lower number of SOs? What would the sales have been at WKV if a 2 bedroom was 91,000 SOs?

It was in presales in 2006 and obviously showed up on the SO chart. I was there just weeks after they opened in 2008. I'm not guaranteeing anything...just relaying what I recall from the meetings and the anecdotal comments from others who had similar meetings at the time, along with posts here. Not sure why you think "Lagunamar qualities" would change after they start sales...you'd think they would put every advantage toward making sales, so I'm confused why you think they wouldn't do so.

Anyway, back to this Marriott mess...

 

[Ken555]

I am confused. How could there be 2 SO charts? Were they for different SO amounts for the week?

One chart for weekly rates, one for daily. They have since combined them into one.

 

[TravelTime]

One chart for weekly rates, one for daily. They have since combined them into one.

But were the total per week the same at the time they posted the 2 charts?

 

[Ken555]

But were the total per week the same at the time they posted the 2 charts?

Yes, of course. Just look at the two images I posted earlier for example.

 

[TravelTime]

that view is actually oceanfront. This view is from the furthest building to the beach (where the reception is). There are no condos on the Lagoon side. Does it still beat a parking view?
Somebody said that Lagunamar should have won an architectural reward.
View attachment 8310

Frankly none of the Westins, Marriotts, Hyatts or any others deserve an architectural award. I think the outside of all of these resorts look identical. To me, it is the interior finishes that truly distinguish the hotel quality. I think the green and blue tile is outdated by today’s design standards and does not match the contemporary style of the rest of the villa. However, this is a minor complaint and would not keep me from staying in a unit if I wanted to visit Cancun with SOs or on a Getaway.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

FWIW...HGVC doesn't have all this enrollment nonsense. Everyone enrolls their unit upon purchase for $599. (This is akin to @DannyTS argument that they should charge everyone a low fee so almost everyone enrolls). That means that all units in the system are in play for trade every year. None of this trust worry that the units are mud weeks or low value resorts because the higher value units are not in the trust. Just one club fee with HGVC not SO's and then potentially enrollment fees. Very simple.

 

[DannyTS]

Yes I like this better bc I hate the tile at WLR. But some people may love the tile. I think Vistana should replace the tile on the walls when they renovate but I assume that is very expensive to change.

I think they should leave the tiles the way they are. Read what okwiater said, the kitchens are some of the nicest in the VSN

 

[TravelTime]

I think they should leave the tiles the way they are. Read what okwiater said, the kitchens are some of the nicest in the VSN

Okay if Okwiater says so, then let’s not touch that tile. LOL

I suspect they left the green and blue tile when they converted it from a Sheraton to a Westin in the late 2000s.

 

[DannyTS]

Frankly none of the Westins, Marriotts, Hyatts or any others deserve an architectural award. I think the outside of all of these resorts look identical.

Lagunamar was actually shortlisted for an architectural award.

http://thedesignsoc.com/shortlisted-dpad-hotel-design-award-north-south-america/

 

[Ken555]

Lagunamar was actually shortlisted for an architectural award.

http://thedesignsoc.com/shortlisted-dpad-hotel-design-award-north-south-america/

It looks much better now that it's not pink.

 

[DannyTS]

It was in presales in 2006 and obviously showed up on the SO chart. I was there just weeks after they opened in 2008. I'm not guaranteeing anything...just relaying what I recall from the meetings and the anecdotal comments from others who had similar meetings at the time, along with posts here. Not sure why you think "Lagunamar qualities" would change after they start sales...you'd think they would put every advantage toward making sales, so I'm confused why you think they wouldn't do so.

Anyway, back to this Marriott mess...

But you agree with me, had they allocated less SO to WKV, people would have complained the same way and they would have sold less, right?


I believe that certain things have to be experienced and not just told about. I am not sure why this does not make sense. It is so nice for example to walk with the kids across to the La Isla mall in the morning and watch the dolphins while having breakfast. You do not have to pay extra for that, you just pay for a regular breakfast. I am sure that a lot of these qualities due to the location and design were not fully understood at the time.

 

[TravelTime]

Lagunamar was actually shortlisted for an architectural award.

http://thedesignsoc.com/shortlisted-dpad-hotel-design-award-north-south-america/

Interesting. I guess some people love that tile. Okay now I must visit the WLR. I need to see it first hand before commenting on the tile.

I found this description of the rooms online. Love the way they promote the tiles and variety of styles: “Meanwhile, the villas incorporate more local-themed décor; in each suite, colourful tiles and Mexican accessories combine with modern architectural details and Caribbean-inspired furnishings. A seamless blend of classic, contemporary and tropical styles makes this resort appealing to many kinds of travellers in search of an upscale yet relaxed Cancun holiday.”

They made the clashing styles and green and blue tiles into a positive. To each his own, I guess.

I like the pool and the public areas of WLR look really nice online.

 

[TravelTime]

It looks much better now that it's not pink.

Ha ha

 

[Ken555]

But you agree with me, had they allocated less SO to WKV, people would have complained the same way and they would have sold less, right?

It's all about perspective. I get your point, but it all depends on when this was sold. WKV was an earlier resort, and if at the time they didn't have as many others at 148,100 then they might have gotten away with a lower amount. When they sold WLR many of their most important customers, especially multi-week owners, were traveling to the 148k week resorts so had no, or little, interest in a resort with less SOs. The fact that they changed the SO allocation for WLR proves the point, and the exact rationale for the decision is rather irrelevant since once they did make the change sales picked up and many people now enjoy the resort on an equal basis with WKORV and others (of course, it's voluntary so...).

Anyway, it seems you now believe us that the WLR original SOs being less is not just a "theory" nor "a story". I also sent you a PM with a link to a site that contains original SOs and prices during pre-sales, so hope that helps your understanding of the history of WLR.

 

[Ken555]

Ha ha

In case you don't know, this was the original paint scheme for WLR:

 

[DannyTS]

It's all about perspective. I get your point, but it all depends on when this was sold. WKV was an earlier resort, and if at the time they didn't have as many others at 148,100 then they might have gotten away with a lower amount. When they sold WLR many of their most important customers, especially multi-week owners, were traveling to the 148k week resorts so had no, or little, interest in a resort with less SOs. The fact that they changed the SO allocation for WLR proves the point, and the exact rationale for the decision is rather irrelevant since once they did make the change sales picked up and many people now enjoy the resort on an equal basis with WKORV and others (of course, it's voluntary so...).

Anyway, it seems you now believe us that the WLR original SOs being less is not just a "theory" nor "a story". I also sent you a PM with a link to a site that contains original SOs and prices during pre-sales, so hope that helps your understanding of the history of WLR.

I do believe you now
But it still seems to me they realized their mistake pretty soon and never looked back

 

[TravelTime]

It's all about perspective. I get your point, but it all depends on when this was sold. WKV was an earlier resort, and if at the time they didn't have as many others at 148,100 then they might have gotten away with a lower amount. When they sold WLR many of their most important customers, especially multi-week owners, were traveling to the 148k week resorts so had no, or little, interest in a resort with less SOs. The fact that they changed the SO allocation for WLR proves the point, and the exact rationale for the decision is rather irrelevant since once they did make the change sales picked up and many people now enjoy the resort on an equal basis with WKORV and others (of course, it's voluntary so...).

Anyway, it seems you now believe us that the WLR original SOs being less is not just a "theory" nor "a story". I also sent you a PM with a link to a site that contains original SOs and prices during pre-sales, so hope that helps your understanding of the history of WLR.

It is positive to owners and for sales purposes to increase the SOs or DPs a resort gets. But it can also hurt the resort and the developer longer term if inventory goes unbooked because the point allocation was out of whack with the exchange system and comparable options in the region.

 

[TravelTime]

In case you don't know, this was the original paint scheme for WLR:

Not bad in schematic drawings.

 

[DannyTS]

It's all about perspective. I get your point, but it all depends on when this was sold. WKV was an earlier resort, and if at the time they didn't have as many others at 148,100 then they might have gotten away with a lower amount. When they sold WLR many of their most important customers, especially multi-week owners, were traveling to the 148k week resorts so had no, or little, interest in a resort with less SOs. The fact that they changed the SO allocation for WLR proves the point, and the exact rationale for the decision is rather irrelevant since once they did make the change sales picked up and many people now enjoy the resort on an equal basis with WKORV and others (of course, it's voluntary so...).

Anyway, it seems you now believe us that the WLR original SOs being less is not just a "theory" nor "a story". I also sent you a PM with a link to a site that contains original SOs and prices during pre-sales, so hope that helps your understanding of the history of WLR.

I also think this exchange shows what happens when they start to change the allocation of points for any given resort. In the end the market has validated the current configuration. I think that a fixed DP to SO makes more sense than starting endless discussions about who's kitchen is nicer. Of course we love to speculate!

 

[TravelTime]

I do believe you now
But it still seems to me they realized their mistake pretty soon and never looked back

I suspect MVC will fix this and never look back either. If MVC makes WLR worth 4800 to 5800 DPs for 1 bedrooms like in Maui, I would not use DP points to stay there. It seems like right now the high point value in Vistana only benefits its owners.

 

[Ken555]

I do believe you now

Finally!

But it still seems to me they realized their mistake pretty soon and never looked back

Actually, I'm not sure about that. They have since adjusted a few resorts, such as WSJ and WKORV OF. This is rather pertinent to the overall Marriott discussion in that it's a good reminder that SVN also adjusted the values when it suited them, so another adjustment in the future shouldn't be a surprise to any of us.

I've come to realize that a complicated system helps the developer/system more than its customers. The more confusion there is, the greater the chance of enabling the sales staff to sell a higher value week. Logically this doesn't work for me, but it seems to be the overall trend for most systems.

 

[Ken555]

I also think this exchange shows what happens when they start to change the allocation of points for any given resort. In the end the market has validated the current configuration.

Yes, and I think having numerous sales meetings with customers who refuse to purchase because of the lower SOs gets the point across to management rather quickly.

I think that a fixed DP to SO makes more sense than starting endless discussions about who's kitchen is nicer. Of course we love to speculate!

I saw the posts about the green tile in the kitchens (which I actually thought looked great). But, there's no complaints about the blue tiles in the bathrooms?

 

[TravelTime]

I also think this exchange shows what happens when they start to change the allocation of points for any given resort. In the end the market has validated the current configuration. I think that a fixed DP to SO makes more sense than starting endless discussions about who's kitchen is nicer. Of course we love to speculate!

I do not like the blue tile in the older Westin St John units either. But tile alone will not stop me from booking at a resort at the right price or SO/DP point level. I do think the interior design of a unit is more important than SOs or DPs since it will stop people from paying to stay there unless the price is low enough to make it worth it compared to other options. You can book at WLR for under $200 a night on Expedia so yes, the market has validated the value.

 

[DannyTS]

Yes, and I think having numerous sales meetings with customers who refuse to purchase because of the lower SOs gets the point across to management rather quickly.



I saw the posts about the green tile in the kitchens (which I actually thought looked great). But, there's no complaints about the blue tiles in the bathrooms?

What if they switch the tiles and put blue tiles in the kitchen and green tiles in the bathroom? Can we all agree on that?

 

[needvaca]

I've been to WLR twice. I love the décor. I love the green tiles. I love the off white floor tiles. The whole thing looks/feels fresh, clean, hip, modern and bigger than its actual size. Also, the floor to ceiling windows are amazing. IMHO an amazing property overall.