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Vistana Now Part of Marriott Vacations Worldwide

controller1

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Since it is fun....Has anybody thought about how the timeshare "elite" programs would fall together? They seem pretty far apart.

They are very far apart. There are opportunities for MVC owners to achieve Marriott Platinum Premier solely through timeshare ownership while Vistana owners only have the opportunity to achieve Marriott Platinum solely through timeshare ownership.
 

dioxide45

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Here is Simple..........all star options are converted over to MVC points and new points tables are established for Vistana Properties. For those owners that bought directly from Starwood/Vistana they are automatically enrolled. For those resale mandatory owners there is a one time points conversion fee, just like they do with Marriott Resales. If you own a non star options resale vistana resale in a desirable location, they may target you with special offers to convert over to MVC clubs. By law, when a corporation takes over another corporation, they take over the previous contracts and obligations. Do we win a prize if we guess right here??? lmao
No prizes. Of course anything is possible, but nothing will be free. Regardless of how you acquired your ownership. It might be cheaper if you bought direct but any enrollment will come with a fee. I also don't see them simply converting on an SO to DC conversion. They won't give you a certain number of DC points based on the number of SOs your week is worth, they would assign your specific week a DC point value. SO am 81K week in Orlando probably would get fewer DC points than an 81K week in Hawaii. For FlexOptions and HomeOptions, those will likely convert on an SO to DC basis.

I also don't see them eliminating VSN. They generally don't want to take away anyone's existing rights. Also, many people would have been sold a week on Friday based on SOs but come Monday their whole system is changed and how they use it is now different in DC? That probably won't fly and would probably get legal challenge. They will probably let people use their weeks, their SOs or convert their weeks to DC points. This being if they do anything at all.
 

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I am not sure i understand the argument that if they convert SO to DP following a fixed ratio they would take away some of our rights
 

dioxide45

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I am not sure i understand the argument that if they convert SO to DP following a fixed ratio they would take away some of our rights
SOs don't work the same as DC points. WIth DC points, you have skim. Meaning you get 2000 points but to book a week back in to the same resort would cost you 2200. Inherently they give you fewer points than it costs to book other like properties and weeks. SOs don't work the same way. I get 81,000 SOs and gan go to another resort or back in to another week at my same resort without losing anything. There is no skim in the VSN. If they forced DC upon me, I would not be happy. If they allow me to enroll and continue to use VSN, I would be happy.
 

DannyTS

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SOs don't work the same as DC points. WIth DC points, you have skim. Meaning you get 2000 points but to book a week back in to the same resort would cost you 2200. Inherently they give you fewer points than it costs to book other like properties and weeks. SOs don't work the same way. I get 81,000 SOs and gan go to another resort or back in to another week at my same resort without losing anything. There is no skim in the VSN. If they forced DC upon me, I would not be happy. If they allow me to enroll and continue to use VSN, I would be happy.
this is a very compelling argument.
 

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SOs don't work the same as DC points. WIth DC points, you have skim. Meaning you get 2000 points but to book a week back in to the same resort would cost you 2200. Inherently they give you fewer points than it costs to book other like properties and weeks. SOs don't work the same way. I get 81,000 SOs and gan go to another resort or back in to another week at my same resort without losing anything. There is no skim in the VSN. If they forced DC upon me, I would not be happy. If they allow me to enroll and continue to use VSN, I would be happy.
If i may add one more comment to your point and thank you for clarifying that to me. There is a lot of overlap between Vistana and Marriott. As a Vistana mandatory owner you do not need MVC to go to Hawaii, Colorado, Arizona, Florida and so on. I can count on the fingers the places where i would like to go to and i can get there just through Marriott however, they all seem to be available in Interval almost all the time (St Kits, Aruba etc) So what exactly do i need the DP for? Nice to have but not a "necessity" as far as I am concerned.
 

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If i may add one more comment to your point and thank you for clarifying that to me. There is a lot of overlap between Vistana and Marriott. As a Vistana mandatory owner you do not need MVC to go to Hawaii, Colorado, Arizona, Florida and so on. I can count on the fingers the places where i would like to go to and i can get there just through Marriott however, they all seem to be available in Interval almost all the time (St Kits, Aruba etc) So what exactly do i need the DP for? Nice to have but not a "necessity" as far as I am concerned.
Skim applies to DPs you exercise in a given use year, when you use those points to stay at another resort in the program. If you purchase Destination Points there is no skim, but they are expensive and carry a higher maintenance fee.
 

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Skim applies to DPs you exercise in a given use year, when you use those points to stay at another resort in the program. If you purchase Destination Points there is no skim, but they are expensi
Skim applies to DPs you exercise in a given use year, when you use those points to stay at another resort in the program. If you purchase Destination Points there is no skim, but they are expensive and carry a higher maintenance fee.
I see what you are saying but it seems that it would apply to Staroption owners since we did not buy DP. If they do a simple conversion though with no skim that would be fine although i do not know how they would reconcile that with the Marriott owners. Again, i do not think that I would agree with any skim on our Vistana resorts let alone paying anything for that.
 

dioxide45

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I see what you are saying but it seems that it would apply to Staroption owners since we did not buy DP. If they do a simple conversion though with no skim that would be fine although i do not know how they would reconcile that with the Marriott owners. Again, i do not think that I would agree with any skim on our Vistana resorts let alone paying anything for that.
Another big issue is how the DC chart is setup vs the SO chart. I lightly touched on this earlier, but currently a Lagunamar 2BR platinum week is worth the same as a Hawaii 2BR week. While Marriott doesn't have any Mexican resorts to compare, I simply don't see them allotting close to the same number of points for Lagunamar as they do for any property in Hawaii. If so, there would be no way that someone gets the same amount of points for their Lagunamar week to get them back in to Hawaii like they can today (with no loss of points). So in DC someone using a WLR week would no longer get enough points to go to Hawaii. Perhaps if they did a straight SO to DC conversion they would, but I doubt they would do that because in reality, is Mexico as valuable as Hawaii? Vistana didn't even think it was and they only upped the number of StarOptions for the Platinum season as WLR after sales were poor starting out.
 

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Another big issue is how the DC chart is setup vs the SO chart. I lightly touched on this earlier, but currently a Lagunamar 2BR platinum week is worth the same as a Hawaii 2BR week. While Marriott doesn't have any Mexican resorts to compare, I simply don't see them allotting close to the same number of points for Lagunamar as they do for any property in Hawaii. If so, there would be no way that someone gets the same amount of points for their Lagunamar week to get them back in to Hawaii like they can today (with no loss of points). So in DC someone using a WLR week would no longer get enough points to go to Hawaii. Perhaps if they did a straight SO to DC conversion they would, but I doubt they would do that because in reality, is Mexico as valuable as Hawaii? Vistana didn't even think it was and they only upped the number of StarOptions for the Platinum season as WLR after sales were poor starting out.

I hear what you are saying but Cancun is a great complement to the MVC resorts and one of the few places where there is no overlap. While Hawaii may sound great, MVC already has 5 great resorts there and there is also a Hyatt; the Vistana properties, while welcome in the club, do not add that much more value IMO in that area. It is not surprising that the MVC CEO mentioned Mexico during the conference call and not the 4 additional Hawaiian resorts!

I also want to point out that while Hawaii may be a great place to go to, it is not practical at all for those who live on the East cost, especially those travelling with kids. I would not go there more often than every few years while we go Mexico and to the Caribbean typically more than once a year.

In any case you are right, any deal should not take anything away from what we already have
 

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Another big issue is how the DC chart is setup vs the SO chart. I lightly touched on this earlier, but currently a Lagunamar 2BR platinum week is worth the same as a Hawaii 2BR week. While Marriott doesn't have any Mexican resorts to compare, I simply don't see them allotting close to the same number of points for Lagunamar as they do for any property in Hawaii. If so, there would be no way that someone gets the same amount of points for their Lagunamar week to get them back in to Hawaii like they can today (with no loss of points). So in DC someone using a WLR week would no longer get enough points to go to Hawaii. Perhaps if they did a straight SO to DC conversion they would, but I doubt they would do that because in reality, is Mexico as valuable as Hawaii? Vistana didn't even think it was and they only upped the number of StarOptions for the Platinum season as WLR after sales were poor starting out.
You could do the comparison using Arizona or Orlando vs Hawaii as example where both systems have resorts.
I already done the exercise in the past for 2 bdrm Arizona vs 2 bdrm Hawaii where a peak season in Arizona in the MVC DC system can't get a low season in Hawaii but in the VSE SO system, it can.
Example:
MMO Lahaina (Maui) is 4,700 to 10,425 DC pts for a 2 bdrm
MVC (Phoenix) is 1,725 to 4,175 DC pts for a 2 bdrm
where
WKORV (Maui) is 148,100 to 176,700 SO for a 2 bdrm
SDO or WKV (Scottdales) is 56,300 to 148,100 SO for a 2bdrm
 

Ken555

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Another big issue is how the DC chart is setup vs the SO chart. I lightly touched on this earlier, but currently a Lagunamar 2BR platinum week is worth the same as a Hawaii 2BR week. While Marriott doesn't have any Mexican resorts to compare, I simply don't see them allotting close to the same number of points for Lagunamar as they do for any property in Hawaii. If so, there would be no way that someone gets the same amount of points for their Lagunamar week to get them back in to Hawaii like they can today (with no loss of points). So in DC someone using a WLR week would no longer get enough points to go to Hawaii. Perhaps if they did a straight SO to DC conversion they would, but I doubt they would do that because in reality, is Mexico as valuable as Hawaii? Vistana didn't even think it was and they only upped the number of StarOptions for the Platinum season as WLR after sales were poor starting out.

As a reminder when WLR was first on sale it did not have the same SOs as the Hawaii resorts. IIRC a 2-bed was something like 94k SOs. Long story short they couldn't sell them. So they increased the SO value and the rest is history.

I doubt Marriott would make such a devaluation.


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dioxide45

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As a reminder when WLR was first on sale it did not have the same SOs as the Hawaii resorts. IIRC a 2-bed was something like 94k SOs. Long story short they couldn't sell them. So they increased the SO value and the rest is history.

I doubt Marriott would make such a devaluation.


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Yes, I mentioned something to the effect in the last sentence of my post. I didn't know the number of SOs the platinum weeks originally provided.
 

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I think value of location is all in the eyes of the beholder. I’ve been to Maui, Kauai, Oahu multiple times for vacation. Sure it’s a beautiful place and I love that it’s part of the US but I actually prefer going to Cancun and staying at Lagunamar as none of those Hawaii resorts are as nice with such an awesome pool and close to great restaurants. I also love the fact that everything is relatively cheaper compared to Hawaii (eg lodging, meals, car rentals, activities). If the water is a bit rough to swim in at the resort then take the ferry to Isla mujeres and rent a golf cart for the day to drive around the island and spend part of the day on the north side with some great calm clear water with decent snorkeling. I also love the various eco parks around the area like Xel-Ha. Same time zone as Texas and no issues with jet lag like Hawaii with a 6 hour difference.
 

CalGalTraveler

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Interesting discussion. I always learn a lot from fellow Tuggers :)

If one enrolls their week in DC points are they required to pay an additional annual MF? Or is that DC trust points only? As we know, SO's don't require additional MF.
 

dioxide45

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Interesting discussion. I always learn a lot from fellow Tuggers :)

If one enrolls their week in DC points are they required to pay an additional annual MF? Or is that DC trust points only? As we know, SO's don't require additional MF.
Marriott owners that enroll their weeks still pay the MF on the underlying week. Nothing changes. They just have the opportunity to convert their week to DC points.
 

tschwa2

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Interesting discussion. I always learn a lot from fellow Tuggers :)

If one enrolls their week in DC points are they required to pay an additional annual MF? Or is that DC trust points only? As we know, SO's don't require additional MF.
while SO's don t require additional Of you do need to pay an SVN fee. Enrolled weeks pay an annual fee. I think there are 2 levels based on the number of points. The annual fees are higher with Marriot. With Marriott you don't pay for guest certs for DC reservations. Marriott to Marriott exchange s when exchanging weeks and retrades are free in II. Higher Hotel status is easier to achieve with DC points including points from enrolled weeks.
 

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As a reminder when WLR was first on sale it did not have the same SOs as the Hawaii resorts. IIRC a 2-bed was something like 94k SOs. Long story short they couldn't sell them. So they increased the SO value and the rest is history.

I doubt Marriott would make such a devaluation.


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I have heard this theory before, told apparently around 2012-2013 by a salesperson at another Westin resort, that Lagunamar had to increase the number of Staroptions because of poor sales performance.

The resort opened in 2008 according to media articles

https://www.hotelexecutive.com/news...-open-westin-lagunamar-ocean-resort-in-cancun


According to the developer prices and SO chart in January 2008 (found on TUG), the SO number for a 2 bedroom platinum was exactly the same as today: 148,100

The story does not seem to be accurate.

upload_2018-9-23_12-11-16.png
 
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TravelTime

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Westin Lagumar is always available on II for Getaways and exchanges. I think it would be foolish for Marriott to give the same DC points for a Mexican resort as a Hawaii resort. There is no hurricane season or low season in Hawaii but the high season in Cancun only lasts for 4 months (Christmas to Easter). I would never book Cancun (or anywhere in the Caribbean) in advance during hurricane season (Aug-Oct), except as a last minute thing if I knew there was not a hurricane on the horizon. I suspect everyone but a few Westin Lagumar owners would agree and understand if Marriott offers fewer points for Mexico vs Hawaii. Also keep in mind that it is to everyone’s advantage if Marriott values Westin Lagumar at a lower point allocation because then it is cheaper for us to use DPs to book there.

I have not been to Westin Lagumar but in looking at the website photos, the interior design looks a bit dated to me. I am surprised it opened in 2008. I thought it was an 80s or 90s resort by the look of the rooms there.
 
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TravelTime

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I do not understand why the skim is such a big issue. MVC Week owners can use their week in their season or DPs, whatever is to their advantage.
 

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Westin Lagumar is always available on II for Getaways and exchanges. I think it would be foolish for Marriott to give the same DC points for a Mexican resort as a Hawaii resort. There is no hurricane season or low season in Hawaii but the high season in Cancun only lasts for 4 months (Christmas to Easter). I would never book Cancun (or anywhere in the Caribbean) in advance during hurricane season (Aug-Oct), except as a last minute thing if I knew there was not a hurricane on the horizon. I suspect everyone but a few Westin Lagumar owners would agree and understand if Marriott offers fewer points for Mexico vs Hawaii. Also keep in mind that it is to everyone’s advantage if Marriott values Westin Lagumar at a lower point allocation because then it is cheaper for us to use DPs to book there.

Hurricanes are rare in Cancun, i think they only hit twice in the last 15-20 years without major damages. Lagunamar is a big resort and all condos are 2 bedrooms lockoff. You should not read much into the fact that you have few (mostly) studios on Interval, and mostly shoulder season.

The idea that all seasons are the same in Hawaii is disproved by points required in most TS, including Marriott. Westin is apart from this point of view, one can argue that the resort owners get more points anyway in aggregate because all weeks are platinum in Hawaii. You may also have to have in mind that virtually all Lagunamar condos have gorgeous ocean views, not exactly the same as a "wonderful" parking view at other resorts. That in itself brings a lot of value and means much less potential frustration for the management, owners and renters alike.
upload_2018-9-23_13-11-4.png
 

DannyTS

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Westin Lagumar is always available on II for Getaways and exchanges. I think it would be foolish for Marriott to give the same DC points for a Mexican resort as a Hawaii resort. There is no hurricane season or low season in Hawaii but the high season in Cancun only lasts for 4 months (Christmas to Easter). I would never book Cancun (or anywhere in the Caribbean) in advance during hurricane season (Aug-Oct), except as a last minute thing if I knew there was not a hurricane on the horizon. I suspect everyone but a few Westin Lagumar owners would agree and understand if Marriott offers fewer points for Mexico vs Hawaii. Also keep in mind that it is to everyone’s advantage if Marriott values Westin Lagumar at a lower point allocation because then it is cheaper for us to use DPs to book there.

I have not been to Westin Lagumar but in looking at the website photos, the interior design looks a bit dated to me. I am surprised it opened in 2008. I thought it was an 80s or 90s resort by the look of the rooms there.
It is an issue because when you deposit you lose in average 7% of the value if i understand correctly.
 

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Hmmm...you could argue that hurricanes are rare in any single city. But it is not rare in the Caribbean. Cancun is in the Caribbean’s hurricane belt so in any single year, of course it won’t get hit. I grew up in the hurricane capital of the USA and only one or two major hurricanes have hit my home town in the past 50 years. It is still in my general rule that I do not book major Caribbean vacations in advance from Aug-Oct.
 

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It is an issue because when you deposit you lose in average 7% of the value if i understand correctly.

My point is that you do not need to deposit your DPs if you want to use them in your season at your home resort. So you can avoid the skim entirely.
 

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Hurricanes are rare in Cancun, i think they only hit twice in the last 15-20 years without major damages. Lagunamar is a big resort and all condos are 2 bedrooms lockoff. You should not read much into the fact that you have few (mostly) studios on Interval, and mostly shoulder season.

The idea that all seasons are the same in Hawaii is disproved by points required in most TS, including Marriott. Westin is apart from this point of view, one can argue that the resort owners get more points anyway in aggregate because all weeks are platinum in Hawaii. You may also have to have in mind that virtually all Lagunamar condos have gorgeous ocean views, not exactly the same as a "wonderful" parking view at other resorts. That in itself brings a lot of value and means much less potential frustration for the management, owners and renters alike. View attachment 8307

It is nice that MVC offers some lower point weeks in Hawaii. It is not a significant savings for Hawaii but the option is nice because then it costs me less to book Hawaii esp if I can use the 30% discount at 60 days. I wish both Westin and MVC had more Caribbean options. Even though I am on the West coast, I would love to go to the Caribbean annually in addition to an annual Hawaii trip. I bought into Vistana primarily for Maui, St John and the Bahamas. However, it is very hard to get St John at the 8 month mark using SOs. So if it were possible to book St John more easily using DPs, that would interest me. One thing I like about DPs vs SOs is you can book the view category any time with DPs. With SOs, the view is floating at 8 months. It is nice that all units have ocean view at Westin Lagumar so booking with SOs would not be an issue for that resort.
 
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