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Vidanta resale vs developer

Discussion in 'Mexico Timesharing' started by Oti_romo, Jun 25, 2018.

  1. Oti_romo

    Oti_romo Guest

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    Hi I wanted to get people's opinions about how they like their resale at vidanta and also speak to people who bought from the developer. I have a family of 5 and have travelled 3 times to nv Mayan palace and 1 time grand bliss.

    Question I have if you bought resale
    1. What price and level did you purchase?
    2. How easy is it to book using a resale? Can you book multiweeks?
    3. Mf cost per year?
    4. Can you upgrade if you bought resale?

    Question if bought from developer
    1. What price and level did you purchase?
    2. How many weeks did you buy?
    3. Is it easily exchanged for other locations outside of vidanta? Any exchange fees?
    4. Any perks negotiated or contract amendments?
    5. Any advice of how you like it so far


    Thank you.
     
  2. dioxide45

    dioxide45 TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    I think resales are somewhat rare with Vidanta. By instituting the only pay MF if you go, it has effectively eliminated people desperate to try to get out from under the MFs. Transfer fees are also very high, in the multiples of annual MFs.
     
  3. Eric B

    Eric B TUG Member

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    Vidanta also writes the contracts as fairly standard contracts with significant addenda that modify the terms; the addenda are generally non-transferable. Additionally, they charge a large transfer fee. There are some older contracts that are more easily transferred that show up occasionally, but they’ve fairly well eliminated the resale market.
     
  4. T-Dot-Traveller

    T-Dot-Traveller TUG Member

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    Contracts before 2002 had a transfer fee of 1 MF . These are all Sea Garden & Mayan Palace .

    Then the transfer fee went to 10% of the original developer price . There are some older Grand Mayans that are !0% .
    so the transfer cost would be around $ 3000. Then the transfer cost went to 5 x MF around 2005 .

    The catch is that all of the contracts before 2011 have a 25 year renewal cost of 5 x MF and a reno MF ( 2nd MF) ever 5 years .

    Lets say you found a 18 year old Mayan Palace 2 bedroom ( big enough for 5 ) for sale for $ 1000 .
    I think the MF is probably $ 875 or so .

    Payment to owner : $1000
    Resort transfer cost $ 875 ( estimate based on my 1 bedroom MP = approx $ 730 for 2018)
    2020 reno MF - $ 925 - (estimate + $25 per year / my 2006 MP 1 bedroom goes up about $ 20 year.)
    2025 renewal cost $5250 - ( estimate MF in 7 years = $1050 x 5 = $ 5250)

    In these contracts : the registered week remains a registered week when 25 year renewal payment is made ;
    and the Vacation Fare week transfers . VF weeks are optional use and have 6 month ARP like the registered week
    EXCEPT for Feb & March - when the ARP is 45 days ( so basically VF weeks are not for snowbird season use / unless there is space )
    { IMO - if I found one of these , I WOULD NOT upgrade - it has more long term value left alone }

    Vidanta reservations allows you to book using the 6 month ARP on the first of the month .
    ( ie ) - Aug. 1 2018 - I can book any week in Feb 2019 .
    I call early : as there phone lines are busy - since Feb is snowbird season .

    Vidanta has built for peak snowbird season & the 4 Mexican Holiday weeks . Their resorts are very close to 100 % full from Christmas Week until the week after Easter Sunday .
    Since they build & staff in pesos & collect MF in $ USD ; this "overbuilding " is cost effective for them . This does result in lots of availability from May to mid December.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
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  5. Oti_romo

    Oti_romo Guest

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    So resale limits you to your designated week and you have a 5x mf at the end of the 25 year contract. If you wanted to buy a grand luxxe or grand bliss from the developer what is a good price for a 2 bedroom master?
     
  6. T-Dot-Traveller

    T-Dot-Traveller TUG Member

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    Not quite - I will try to clarify .

    All Vidanta contracts are for “100 years “ . All have renewal time line points that require an “extra “payment to keep the contract valid .

    All weeks are RTU ( right to use ) float weeks .

    Vidanta has sold Elite Holiday week contracts that allow booking of the 4 Mexican Holiday Weeks ( Christmas , NewYears ( ie 51 & 52 ) and the 2 weeks on either side of Easter Sunday .
    Most contracts exclude usage / bookingof these 4 weeks

    1) Contracts before 2011 . - 3 renewals / every 25 year’s (at 5 x MF ) + a renovation fee ( 2nd MF ) due every 5 years . Non payment basically ends the contract . Vidanta then gets the registered week back & can repackage it into a new contract .

    2 ) Contracts since 2011 - Have a renewal every 10 year’s . Generally it is 1 or 1.5 x current MF .( & no 5 year reno fees ) After the 10 year renewal - the registered week becomes a
    residence week ( or similar term .)

    IMO - if you were to compare the cost over 50 years / it is likely about the same dollars to keep
    a Vidanta contract active .

    resale of contracts written since about 2005 causes the removal of some or all addendum including bonus weeks ,the “no go / no pay”- MF on use only addendum etc .

    ****
    My point on the older contracts that have the 1 MF transfer fee : is that they are within 7 years of having to be renewed .
    Earlier this spring there was a 15 year old Mayan Palace on ebay that was being sold for the transfer cost of 10 % of the original cost ( ie - about $ 3000) with the seller then paying the resort transfer fee .(as I remember )

    If you find either version : it may be worth buying IF you use all the remaining years until renewal - versus paying the resort fee for 5 family members on 7 or 10 visits as an exchanger . You could then decide at the renewal time if you want to keep the contract or not .
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  7. T-Dot-Traveller

    T-Dot-Traveller TUG Member

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    I am not sure -
    A TUG member IMPLIED last year that they negotiated a 1 bedroom Grand Luxe to about
    $ 40 K with sales . { added - I think they talked trade in & then said OK - what if there is no trade in / is the price the same ?}
    They ended up not buying as I recall - because they felt their exchanges
    through II were still a better deal . I think this was when the resort fee was still $ 11 pp/ pd .

    If you rent from an owner - you do not pay any resort fee and you - get to use any addendum like lower cost golf .

    TUG Marketplace is one source for renting .
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
  8. pittle

    pittle Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    I have no idea what you could buy one outright for.

    We bought our first Vidanta property in February 1999 -a 2-bedroom Sea Garden Mazatlan week that we could use for a 1-bedroom Mayan Palace. We paid $7,600 for that and in November 1999, we upgraded to a 2-bedroom Mayan Palace for $8,200 more. So $15,800 total for our first Mayan Palace. That was pretty much the going price at the time and MF were low.

    We learned about resales and between 2001-2007, we bought seven (a 1-bedroom & six 2 -bedroom) on eBay for less than $15,000, including transfer fees and closing costs . We used 3 re-sale weeks to upgrade to 2 weeks of 2-bedroom Grand Mayan for what we considered a good deal and left us some MP weeks so that friends and family could join us on vacation and we could go multiple weeks at a time and go twice a year. We did have the 12 month Advance Reservation Period (ARP) on our Grand Mayan weeks and the no pay unless you go on all six of the weeks that we did have. All of the MP weeks had the 6 month out reservation period.

    In 2013, we decided that we were not traveling as much - neither was family - and we absolutely loved our Buganvilias Sky Suite, so did not need as many Mayan World weeks. We figured out how much we would be paying for all of our 5 year renovation fees before going to a update and when they offered to upgrade us to 2 weeks of Grand Luxxe for close to that amount, we did it. We figured that we were paying our obligation upfront instead of annually until 2024-2032, and we would have super nice accommodations. The MF for Grand Luxxe are really high - twice as much as a Buganvilias Sky Suite. We have only used one of our weeks and it was great. We have 5 more years until the renewal comes up.
     
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  9. Archie11

    Archie11 Guest

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  10. Archie11

    Archie11 Guest

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    I purchased the Grand Mayan on April 211, 2002. My Agreement mentions that every 5 years they will charge Renovation Fee equal to one Maintenance Fee (plus the annual MF). It states failure to pay will result in the Company having the right to terminate the agreement. If I do not pay, is this an "out" for me???
     
  11. Eric B

    Eric B TUG Member

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    Tough to say without seeing the contract. Based on the purchase date, I would guess it’s a renewable 25 year one, coming up in 2027 for the first renewal, which would have a fee of some additional MFs. That one would be officially an optional one you could choose not to pay under the terms of the contract if I’ve guessed correctly; the 5-year renovation fee doesn’t sound like it’s intended to be optional under the terms as you described them.

    While it doesn’t sound like the contract intends for it to be optional, they did specify in the contract what the consequence of non-payment would be; their right to terminate the contract. If, however, they don’t exercise that right, the contract could still exist and whatever actions under it that are available under Mexican law, which I’m not very familiar with. There was another recent thread discussion of nonpayment of Mexican timeshare fees and potential consequences.

    Your other option might be to try to give it away or sell it. The newer contracts from Vidanta have much more onerous assignment clauses that pretty much wipe out the resale market. There might be interest in it, particularly if it has a low MF due to the age of the contract and limitations on its rise over the years. There are a few articles in the sales forum on giving a TS away that could be helpful.
     
  12. Eric B

    Eric B TUG Member

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    Sorry, didn’t see what you had in the quote box. Bottom line for me is that they would have the right to cancel the contract, but would not be obligated to do so. As Tom said, they might very well cancel it and resell the underlying week to someone else; the newer ones renew earlier and therefore they get the underlying weeks back earlier (at the ten year point). It would likely depend on how the economy, their sales, and interest in the new Cirque Park wind up being when your renovation fee comes due.
     
  13. T-Dot-Traveller

    T-Dot-Traveller TUG Member

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    If you purchased in April 2002 - I assume you paid the 3rd reno fee last year ( 2017 ) ?
    { 2002 + 5 year = 2007 /2012 / 2017 / 2022 & then optional 25 year renewal in 2027 )

    *********

    If it was not paid in 2017 : I would consider contacting Vidanta Member Services & ask for an update on the status of the contract .

    It may be an "out " .
     
  14. Archie11

    Archie11 Guest

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    No, I did not pay the reno fee in 2017. They billed me the standard annual maintenance fee.
     
  15. pittle

    pittle Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    I checked one of my Old MP Contracts and copied the wording about the 5 year fees.........

    MEMBER ALSO AGREES TO PAY, WITHIN 90 DAYS AFTER EACH FIVE-YEAR ANNIVERSARY OF THIS AGREEMENT, A RENOVATION FEE IN AN AMOUNT EQUAL TO ONE THEN-CURRENT MAINTENANCE FEE FOR EACH REGISTERED WEEK OWNED. COMPANY MAY REFUSE OCCUPANCY UNTIL THE MAINTENANCE FEE AND, IF APPLICABLE, THE RENOVATION FEE FOR THE CURRENT YEAR HAVE BEEN PAID, AND FAILURE TO PAY IN FULL WHEN DUE WILL GIVE COMPANY THE RIGHT TO TERMINATE THIS CONTRACT. COMPANY MAY, BUT SHALL NOT BE OBLIGATED TO, NOTIFY MEMBER OF THE AMOUNT OF ANY MAINTENANCE FEE, RENOVATION FEE OR RENEWAL FEE. IF NO SUCH NOTICE IS RECEIVED BY MEMBER, IT SHALL BE MEMBER'S RESPONSIBILITY TO CONTACT COMPANY TO ASCERTAIN AND PAY SUCH AMOUNT WITHIN THE REQUIRED DEADLINE.

    It says they have the right to terminate, but does not say it is automatic. If you are sure that you do not want to keep it, send them a note that you are not planning to pay the renovation fee and they can have it back.

    The sad thing about Right to Use resorts is that you do not own anything, except for the right to go IF you pay your annual MF. We quit paying on one place in PV and the 2nd year, they contacted us to see if we were "still part of the family". We said no - they had raised the MF and the the resort was going downhill. We could stay other places with better facilities for less money. They were fine with it. We walked away, but had to stop the bleed on our personal finances.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
  16. Eric B

    Eric B TUG Member

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    Might have more value given the recent hike in resort fees for RCI & II. I still think you might try giving it away.
     
  17. pittle

    pittle Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    Just got a text from a friend who is in NV took a picture of their final offer and wanted to know if it was worth doing. I quickly responded with a bunch of questions and then just called her! Then while writing this, her husband called me! I think I have convinced them to pass on this as it was basically a 2-bedroom Sea Garden that could be upgraded to a Grand Mayan just by paying the GM MF. After talking to both of them and assuring them that everything will not work out like they are being told by the sales folks. If they choose to do this, I will have them scan the documents and send them to me while they have time to rescind.

    Eric - are you still there? If so, PM me and I will put them in touch with you.
     
  18. Eric B

    Eric B TUG Member

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    Not there anymore; had to go back to work. Sounds like a really interesting offer; happy to take a look if they want. Actually, they might be better off asking for the old GM contract mentioned above!
     
  19. pittle

    pittle Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    That was my thought too! If they do buy and send me the contract, I will forward you a copy for review too!

    Super nice folks - live in Omaha and have two kids still home. Her family lives in Mexico and this year they rented a large house in La Cruz (VRBO) for the group of 12. We met them in Mazatlan in 2010 and they came to the same resort every year the same time we did. We let them use our unit a couple of years ago when we were not going and have the Sr. Cert there, but that one does not say that we must be there.
     
  20. SunFunTravel

    SunFunTravel Guest

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    $40k for a GL 1 bedroom is not a good price. In fact it's awful. The GL 1 bedroom is a $15k unit at best. We bought a GL Loft for $13k in 2016 and it exchanges into the GL 1 bedroom. I know people who own in the GL 2 bedroom villa who didn't pay $30k for theirs. I also know an owner who owns a 3 bedroom residence loft at $60k all-in with VIP theme park privileges. Don't buy into all of the marketing hype and lies from the sales guys. Negotiate and fight to keep you hard earned money. After all it's still only a timeshare no matter what they call it.
     
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  21. T-Dot-Traveller

    T-Dot-Traveller TUG Member

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    I will conversation that TUG member & suggest a “conversation” with you / for more details .

    Thanks for posting .
     

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