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Vidanta offers exit strategy from timeshare treadmill?

pittle

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One other thing you have not added into your equation - before you can deposit with Registry Collection or SFX, you must pay your MF. All the extra weeks must have the MF amount paid in order to use them. Read all the fine print!!! We own GL and have lots of extra weeks available, but must pay the MF before you can, then there is the exchange company fee, and exchange fee, and guest certificate for when you rent, you have lots of $$$ already invested.

We do not want to be gloom & doom, but you are looking at jumping from the frying pan into the fire here. I love Mayan Resorts and worked their system by starting at the bottom and buying resale for pennies on the dollar (most costs were the transfer fees) and then could roll all my weeks into GL. Along the way, they added lots of extra "benefits" to to our contracts and we are in great shape. Your situation is totally different and not a good deal for you. I really hate to say that because I absolutely love the resorts.

The bottom line is that timeshares have absolutely no value. Check eBay. They are basically prepaid vacations with annual MF. We have taken so many awesome vacations that we would not have if we did not know we needed to use or lose out time. Timeshares are not an investment - they are an incentive to actually take a vacation to a nice place.
 
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T-Dot-Traveller

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if they are valuing your WM ownership at 60 thousand...knowing full well its worth only a small fraction of that on the resale market...just think of how much they are fleecing you on the "trade in" price for what you are buying.

its like a car dealer offering you 60 thousand dollars on a 2005 honda civic if you buy this 100 thousand dollar 2006 honda civic!

******
I totally agree with this statement By TUGBrian .

******
I have never heard on TUG of a "TS trade in" working when there is a loan balance .This does not mean it is impossible - but I think the math (as TUGBrian noted ) makes no sense,
given the "depreciation " of TS from developer price .
ie - you have a $39,000 loan balance and your Worldmark contract is worth $11,000 approx. ( per WM owners who have posted above )

*****
Vidanta "trade ins" work best - when the (fully paid for) property traded in will easily sell on ebay and the TS has some dollar positive value.
Ie your TS is a 2006 fully paid for Honda Civic with 170,000 miles . Lets say it is worth $1200 on the wholesale market . Vidanta gives you a trade in value
of $8000 when you buy their TS ( mostly smoke & mirrors ) and have the disposal company sell it on ebay . Similar to a car dealer giving a $ 2000 trade in
allowance off sticker price and then getting $ 500 at the disposal dealer auction .

IMO - If your giving Vidanta 50K+ for a Grand Luxxe -they(probably) pay the disposal company fee / if it is a 10 K ( net - after negotiation) contract , you pay $ 1500 or so (additional) to the disposal company ,


FYI - most of the positive outcomes I am aware of listed "Global " in the TUG threads . " Global " to my understanding is a disposal company that works with Vidanta
in Nuevo Vallarta .
 
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bizaro86

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unfortunately alternative 1 isnt even an option for you if you still owe 38,000 on the loan.

even finding a willing taker, you simply cant transfer ownership until the loan balance is paid off.

That isn't true for Worldmark. The loan's are assumable, and perversely, having a loan makes the account sell for more. The OP might be able to get someone to take over their loan payments.

As an example, this ebay auction just sold with lots of bidders, and was for more than $1 per WM credit. It is a smaller account than the OP, but comparable valuation wise.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/232435923592?_mwBanner=1
 

pittle

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n
That isn't true for Worldmark. The loan's are assumable, and perversely, having a loan makes the account sell for more. The OP might be able to get someone to take over their loan payments.

As an example, this ebay auction just sold with lots of bidders, and was for more than $1 per WM credit. It is a smaller account than the OP, but comparable valuation wise.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/232435923592?_mwBanner=1


oone is going to assume a 38,000 loan for worldmark credits...im sorry.
 

geist1223

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You mentioned a Class Action Law Suit. Good luck. You entered a Contract with Wyndham and Worldmark. You were an adult. No part of the Contract guaranteed you a future value of your Account. No part of the Contract guaranteed you an Exit Stragedy after the Recission Period.

Neither Vidanta nor the Resell Company they use can get you out of your Contract. Neither Vidanta nor their resell company will be able to resell your Worldmark Account for anywhere near what you still owe on the Contract.

You say that the Resell Company will give you your $1,000 back if they can not sell it after 12 months. You will have to make all loan payments during the 12 months. You will have to make all Maintenance Fee payments during that 12 months. Plus your Vidanta payments. At the end of 12 months it is too late to rescind the Vidanta Contract. You will owe Vidanta. You still own your Worldmark. You still owe on your Worldmark Account Contract. You still owe Maintenance Fees to Worldmark. You get a whopping $1,000 back - a drop in the bucket. If the Mexican Resell Company does not sell your Worldmark and/or refuses to give you a $1,000.00 back you run to Vidanta and they say not our problem. That is a separate contract with a separate company not with Vidanta.
 

bizaro86

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noone is going to assume a 38,000 loan for worldmark credits...im sorry.

I'm not the OP, and I would never take out a loan for a TS. But people do, and not having a downpayment is attractive to some people.

The OP has a loan of roughly $1 per credit. The ebay auction I linked above had 5 bidders competing to take over a loan that was $1.38 per credit. It was a smaller account/loan, but 5 people wanted to take over that nearly $14k loan, and someone felt strongly enough about it to throw in an extra $700.

I'm not confident the OP would find someone, but I don't hunk it's impossible, and I'd be either copying that ebay listing or getting timeshare angels to do one for me if I was in the OPs situation.
 

VacationForever

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I'm not the OP, and I would never take out a loan for a TS. But people do, and not having a downpayment is attractive to some people.

The OP has a loan of roughly $1 per credit. The ebay auction I linked above had 5 bidders competing to take over a loan that was $1.38 per credit. It was a smaller account/loan, but 5 people wanted to take over that nearly $14k loan, and someone felt strongly enough about it to throw in an extra $700.

I'm not confident the OP would find someone, but I don't hunk it's impossible, and I'd be either copying that ebay listing or getting timeshare angels to do one for me if I was in the OPs situation.

At 14K for 10K, that is pretty close to about 19K for 10K the last time I spoke with a WM sales rep. He started with $40K or so, and then the "specials" were running for about 19K. I doubt any of the bidders will go through with their successful bids.
 

bizaro86

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At 14K for 10K, that is pretty close to about 19K for 10K the last time I spoke with a WM sales rep. He started with $40K or so, and then the "specials" were running for about 19K. I doubt any of the bidders will go through with their successful bids.

Maybe not. I was surprised there were 5 bidders. That makes me think out of the 5 one would probably be serious enough to go through with it.
 

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See my response below in red. Short version, your WM ownership has at least 2 exit strategies, selling it for cash (best, preferred method), or using Wyndham's ovation program (Dont do it, it's just giving it away for free back to Wyndham).

One of our main motivations for considering Vidanta is that it appears to provide an Exit Strategy from the timeshare treadmill.
There is no timeshare treadmill, there's just poorly informed owners that buy from the developer.

We currently own 37,000 credits as Diamond members of Worldmark, which entitles us to about 3-4 weeks of vacation per year at Worldmark and Wyndham resorts, depending on the quality of the resort (and exchange into RCI and NovaSol for a $249/week exchange fee). But we’ve been frustrated by two things:
(1) There are only a few Worldmark properties that really appeal to us (e.g., Kihei on Maui and a couple in Mexico), and we have a very hard time getting into those because you have to book them 13 months-to-the-day ahead of time!
If planning ahead is not your cup of tea, then timesharing is not for you, and you should sell

(2) We pay Maintenance Fees of $226 per month ($2,722 per year!), regardless of whether we use the vacation weeks or not. This is a financial commitment that will increase by about 5% every year (last year it seemed to go up 11.5%) and one apparently owes it for eternity. The “forever” ownership that was touted at the time of purchase as a huge benefit for us, our children and our grandchildren, is now turning out to feel like a liability we don’t want to saddle our children (or even ourselves) with. Even if we WERE to enjoy 3 weeks of vacation through Worldmark, that equates to almost $800 per week ($2,722/3) to stay at a place we had to reserve far in advance and may not match our preferences!

That is actually a bargain, per your own calculations, you are paying between $680 and $907 per week to stay at resorts that usually go for 2 to 4 times that amounts.

We are in our early 50’s, work demanding full-time jobs, and have children 5-15 who are not allowed to miss school, so it’s harder to be totally flexible about vacation time in the way a retired couple might be. When we take a week or two, we want it to be places we sincerely want to go.

I have 3 kids, all in school, I love timesharing because "When we take a week or two, we want it to be places we sincerely want to go." However, planning ahead is a must, and it seems you cant/wont do that.

Last year we lost 16,000 Worldmark credits due to their expiring when we didn’t stay on top of it. Every other year we can use something they call Personal Choice to “spend” the credits on hotels or flights or whatever (if booked through the Worldmark Travel Assistance), but the value per credit is only $0.045 (four and a half cents), and that doesn’t seem a good value for the credits, i.e., you paid $2,722 in Maintenance Fees and got back $1,665 in Personal Choice.

OMG, by letting your credit expire, you lost about $1120. Go to WMOWNERS.com and realize that people regularly pay 7 cents per credit, that's cash in your pocket every year if you so choose. And renting points is EASY. Just list the credits you want to rent on WMOWNERS.com, GET PAID first, then transfer the credits using your worldmark account page. Really, it's that easy.

Just for illustration, in the last couple of years we went to France and Thailand and San Diego and for various reasons didn’t even use the Worldmark credits because:

France - the Worldmark and RCI exchange options are located in the suburbs of Paris, a 45-minute metro to the center, and we ended up using VRBO at $179/night to stay a 10-minute walk from Notre Dame!
See above, get paid by renting your WM credits, then vacation where you like!

Thailand – There is a new Worldmark property up in the hills outside Patong that I’m sure is very nice, but it is 27,000 credits per week! That’s like paying $2,000 in Maintenance Fees to stay there one week! Instead we ended up paying $150 per night to stay across the street from the beach.
See above, get paid by renting your WM credits, then vacation where you like!

San Diego – We made travel plans only one month in advance and there was no remaining availability at Worldmark.
See above, get paid by renting your WM credits, then vacation where you like!

Vidanta caught my eye because it appears to offer an exit strategy from Timeshare purgatory. Vidanta contracts (and sales strategies) seem to be highly customized (and therefore complex), with many options and negotiation tools at play, but the pitch we heard was that with the elimination of a Maintenance Fee its replacement by a Usage Fee, the owner pays only for the weeks actually used. The main constraint or commitment in this regard is only that:
1. You have to use 5 weeks in the first 10 years
2. For weeks you want to exchange through The Registry Collection, San Francisco Exchange, RCI or others, you first pay the full Usage Fee, which varies by size of the unit, and then deposit it into exchange inventory. I think you may have to pay it by Feb of the year you plan to exchange. (Theoretically you could lose the week if you somehow screw up the use of the exchange credits.)

Once you pay the purchase price for the unit you “buy”, and then comply with paying the Usage Fee for 5 weeks in the first 10 years, you could walk away from the whole deal without owing anything more. Alternatively, if you find that you like Vidanta and the properties they exchange with, then you have the option to renew your contract every 10 years, for a max of 9 renewals totaling 100 years.

The Usage Fee works out to about $150 per night for a studio and $250 per night for a 1-bedroom. $250 per night is not cheap and nowadays there are a lot of alternatives out there (VRBO, hotel deals, etc) that are cheaper, especially for non-peak periods. However, from what I saw Vidanta accommodations really are 5-star, top quality and they are worth that or more. With Worldmark we are already paying $2,400 per year, so IF we manage to use it for 3 weeks of vacation that works out to less than $100/night. But for any year that we only manage to find 1 week at a Worldmark place we care to spend our vacation time, that works out to $240/night to stay at (what is usually) a mediocre resort.

DO NOT BUY FROM THE DEVELOPER, BUY RESALE (enough said). Whatever the developer offered, you could get on the resale market for 90% to 100% discount, whether in the TUG market place or in eBay. REALLY!

If I had never owned a Timeshare, I’d probably stay away and just vacation through “a la carte” decisions and the maximum flexibility now afforded by options like VRBO, which in my opinion threaten to render timeshares into outdated dinosaurs. But because we already own Worldmark shares and they represent a financial liability FOREVER, that’s troubling to us, and we are seriously considering trading in our Worldmark ownership for a Vidanta contract that commits us to taking at least 5 relatively expensive vacations there in the next 10 years, but thereafter we’re free to use our weeks, or not, with no other financial penalty.

DONT DO IT!!!!! I've been to Vidanta Riviera Maya at the Grand Mayan, it was one of the easiest exchanges I ever made. I also rented another 1bdr unit for $100 for an entire week through SFX during a quaterly special they run. Yes, $14 per day for a 1 bedroom suite. No timeshare presentation required.

I’m sharing this interpretation in hopes of having it vetted and evaluated by people who may have already been through the process themselves, and also to share with folks who might want to explore this option as an exit strategy that allows you to enjoy top notch properties in the near- to medium-term.

As as said above, with WorldMark you have one of the most desirable system timeshare already. You can only screw it up by changing into any other system. Getting rid of that contract will be EASY if you so choose. Contact timeshare angels www.timeshareangels.com and see how much you could get for your contract. But the best decision you could make is just to learn how to use your Worldmark points.
 

VacationForever

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See my response below in red. Short version, your WM ownership has at least 2 exit strategies, selling it for cash (best, preferred method), or using Wyndham's ovation program (Dont do it, it's just giving it away for free back to Wyndham).



As as said above, with WorldMark you have one of the most desirable system timeshare already. You can only screw it up by changing into any other system. Getting rid of that contract will be EASY if you so choose. Contact timeshare angels www.timeshareangels.com and see how much you could get for your contract. But the best decision you could make is just to learn how to use your Worldmark points.

The issue is that OP still owes money on the WM timeshare. Ovation will only take back fully paid up contracts.

You brought up a good point regarding WM being the best system. I own at Marriott, Vistana and Worldmark and agree that if I only own one, it will be WM. The best system in terms of value for money, flexibility, number of desirable locations and the most friendly system to owners with no nickeling and diming.
 

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Got ahead of myself, seems like OP bought WM credits from developer. Not all hope is lost. See my answers below in red again.


Wow, this is all sobering and disturbing advice, folks.
Considering we bought the bulk of our Worldmark shares only two years ago and still owe $38,000 on the note, is there really no way to exit from this commitment and the associated MFs?
You could potentially rent out your points and pay your MFs with that, you'd probably make more from renting than your MFs are worth. BUT, you wont be able to pay your loan off with what you might get from renting your points.
It’s not like we’ve already received, used, and benefited from what we bought. Worldmark already got our downpayment and MFs to date, and we are in good standing. Shouldn’t there be an exit clause for these TMs?
I think your question actually means: shouldnt there be an exit clause "without affecting my credit report" for these timeshares?
NO, at least not to my knowledge. You got into a loan, and not paying the loan off will affect your credit. Once the loan is paid off, getting rid of your contract will be easy.

Has this whole phenomenon never been tested in a class action lawsuit?

Alternative 1: The consensus seems to be that our WM shares are worthless, and that our only real exit is to cut our losses by selling on eBay for $1 and hope someone takes over the payments. We lose all money paid thus far, having gotten in return only the few weeks of vacation we’ve already taken.

That wont happen, sorry

Alternative 2: Learn to use our WM credits better, i.e., vacationing with WM when we can, re-selling the desirable reservations we manage to make but don’t have time to use ourselves, and straight up selling excess credits we have accumulated.

Best solution. FYI, it's not called "selling excess credits" it's called renting points.

Alternative 3: Risk the Vidanta option. Honestly, what Vida proposed sounds to us preferable to owning WM (because our loan amount remains almost the same, we stay at 5-star Vidanta every couple of years, we re-sell some Vidanta peak weeks on-line, and/or trade into Registry Collection or SFX.) HOWEVER, some of you seem quite confident that Vidanta is essentially lying to us and that the reseller TRM (Timeshare Resale Market, formerly Equity Acquisitions) will not be able to sell our WM, will come back asking for lots more money, or leave us still owing for both the loan payments and the MFs.

DO NOT EVEN CONSIDER IT, DO NOT BUY FROM THE DEVELOPER

T-Dot wrote: "Vida /Grupo Vidanta/ Mayan has a long history of doing "trade ins" and there is a (long) fall 2015 Tug thread that includes some info of positive outcomes --see<.Dr Guy a Grand Luxxe owner says his did -Nov 11 2015- post 22 Thread Purchased Grand Luxxe - started by Seema who also purchase GL with a trade in >"

Notwithstanding the horror stories from year’s past, I can’t help wondering if in recent years Vida and TRM business practices have improved and there is a positive outcome for more people?
NO
The way Vida explained to us, their recent partnership with Cirque du Soleil (one of the most recognized and well-regarded brands out there) forced Vida to resolve many former issues and avoid them in the future.

I have a call directly with TRM and they seem to think we are in contract (evidently they never received notice that I had rescinded?), so I’ll be interested to hear their pitch and explanation of what’s ahead.

I'm also curious what it is that makes you say, Bizaro, that we won't be happy anyway... :

It's simple, what you dont like is that you got into a loan to buy Worlmark points that you cannot use because of your personal situation and lifestyle. Now you are considering transferring the loan to Vidanta, which has timeshares in MEXICO, which more or less cements your inability to use your timeshares, unless you can get affordable plane tickets.

You have gotten great advice here, I hope you learn not to buy from the developer again, not with Vidanta, or any other devoper. Buy resale. And things could be worse, you could have bought Diamond points or a Westgate timeshare.
 
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One of our main motivations for considering Vidanta is that it appears to provide an Exit Strategy from the timeshare treadmill.

Be careful with the exit strategy.

If you buy Vidanta ts because of the exit strategy, don't buy.

The exit strategy is outsourced to third party and you pay processing fee UPFRONT. This is ridiculous. What is the incentive of the third party to complete the ts exit, if they pocket your money FIRST? You will also sign a letter stating Vidanta is not responsible with the outcome of this exit strategy.
 

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I believe this tread contains much wise advice. Likewise, I considered an offer from Vidanta and after an adult beverage and a good night's sleep, I rescinded the deal. What many of us have learned over the years in the interval ownership business, is, if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is. The enticing pitch that Vidanta uses is that it would rid one of current ownership and apply it toward the purchase of one of their RTUs at one of their properties. In the era of escalating MFs, this is very appealing. At first glance, one can get rid of MFs and only pay for an interval of use when you use it. However, this comes with an additional outlay of cash and, as the writer notes, the nightly per diem for use is not cheap. Furthermore, if one consigns sale of one's wholly owned unit(s), there is an up front fee paid to a third party - this is the entity that presumably will dispose of one's unit(s). Also, as noted, this takes time and there is no guarantee title will be transferred. I calculated the fee to be something short of $2,000/wk owned. I subsequently discovered that the tactics used by the "disposal" company are deedbacks or offering the unit(s) for sale on the usual venues we are all aware of. For Vidanta, currently owned inventory has zero value. Their only interest is to get someone to buy something at a price. While their resorts premium, they are nevertheless restricted in location. So again, one must rely on exchange companies to request other options. To Vidanta's credit, they are very professional. Of course, it help that I lived in Mexico for a couple of years a few decades ago, speak fluent Spanish and understand their laws. In this day and age of incredible travel bargains, interval ownership makes little sense anymore. However, my personal opinion is that if someone is going to purchase something, I would not purchase anything from a developer anywhere, anytime. And certainly not outside of US jurisdiction.
 

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unfortunately alternative 1 isnt even an option for you if you still owe 38,000 on the loan.

even finding a willing taker, you simply cant transfer ownership until the loan balance is paid off.
 

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It's not just Mexico. We own in Ontario and we exchanged to a different Ontario resort. They offered to "absorb" 2 of our timeshares IF we bought into Fractional Ownership (3 deeded weeks) which they tried to convince muse was different than our 2 deeded weeks that we own and have paid for because Real Estate agents will sell Fractional Ownership but not timeshare. The told us that they could rent out any time we didn't want to use and in 7 years, they'd sell it for us...happily. We signed but after doing some leg work, backed out. Real Estate Agents are NOT interested in pursuing this market. We almost made a costly mistake because we want to get out of our timeshare. They know exactly what to say...but do your due diligence. I'm afraid we'd be 7 years down the line, in the same boat...but much, much worse because we'd have debt.
 

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That auction has 6 days left, that will sell for more than that (I guarantee it, because if it's still at that price I'll bid )

It sold for $6000 + closing costs. If our guy sold his for that, he would still owe $32,000 + the cost of Grand Luxxe. Not a good deal.
 

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Go2Guy:

You have to get out from under this contract, but buying another timeshare from the developer is exactly the wrong thing to do. This would be a good time to contact a broker who can advise you what size loan will sell the easiest, pay off the remainder and get out from under.

Quite frankly, you were sold too many points. You don't need more than 20,000. As you know, not every vacation desire can be reserved with WorldMark (or any timeshare). Use it when it makes sense, rent apartments when that makes sense. If you were to try WM again, it should only be a smaller contract at the resale cost.

For some locations and high-demand periods, you do need to be ready to reserve 13 months in advance at 6:00 PDT. However, you have until 30 days before check-in to cancel if you decide to travel elsewhere. There is no downside to making the 13 month reservation. If you didn't get the exact days you wanted, you call Vacation Planning and you set up a wait list. Because of the owner-friendly cancellation policy many reservations get cancelled. One owner may not have the 7 days you want, but 7 owners may each have a day you want. The reservation will come together.

WorldMark can trade into either Grand Luxxe pretty easily. Yes, we have to pay the annoying resort fee, but that is much less than the cost of buying from Vidanta.

You didn't have to spend 27k points on Thailand. You could have reserved the weeknights for the cheaper points, and stayed at your alternate place on the expensive nights. Or you could have traded into the Marriott Phuket.

I agree that for France, and most of Europe, renting an apartment is the way to go. You could have rented out a portion of your credits (e.g. 10K - 20k) to other owners for about 7 - 8 cents per credit to help cover that trip.

What part of the country do you live in? Oceanside is very near San Diego. While not a fancy resort, it is walking distance to the beach. And it's one of the "cheap" properties where a 2br is only 10,000.

The coastal resorts in Oregon are fabulous. Have you stayed there? Does your family like Orlando? You could stay at Reunion or exchange into a Marriott or Sheraton and use Reunion for a few days at the beginning/end of the week to target lower airfare.

Good Luck, and let us know what you decide.
 

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WMOwners.com is the forum where there are many expert WorldMark Owners.

You may place an ad to rent out your one-time-use Credits. See the other ads for format and current pricing. You may not rent out your expired credits or your "available to borrow" credits.
https://wmowners.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=67

Below you will find links to the WM Resale Brokers' websites here:
https://wmowners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=45426

Expired credits must be kept in a reservation so they are not deleted from your account. You may rent out the reservation.
If you wish to rent out a reservation you may place an ad on TUG's marketplace, or here:
https://wmowners.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=69
 
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r_metta

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I am in a similar situation... just entered into "swap" contract with Vidanta early January. We were told TRM would sell our Villa Del Palmar biannual week within 3-6 months and now I have the same #1/#2 Option with TRM. We owe approx $7k on our Villa del Palmar Cancun timeshare and I do not know if the resale value would cover the loan amount. I have had a conversation with Spencer at TRM, he seems to think its worth 10-14k (I don't know if I agree) however, I need to get out from under this Villa timeshare in order to enjoy the Vidanta gig. Please advise...
 

T-Dot-Traveller

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Mayan Palace Regency
Taranova
I am in a similar situation... just entered into "swap" contract with Vidanta early January. We were told TRM would sell our Villa Del Palmar biannual week within 3-6 months and now I have the same #1/#2 Option with TRM. We owe approx $7k on our Villa del Palmar Cancun timeshare and I do not know if the resale value would cover the loan amount. I have had a conversation with Spencer at TRM, he seems to think its worth 10-14k (I don't know if I agree) however, I need to get out from under this Villa timeshare in order to enjoy the Vidanta gig. Please advise...

You have a problem .
 

Eric B

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Vacation Village, Wyndham, WorldMark, Vistana, Vidanta, Flora Farms, HGVC Max, and some independents
I wouldn’t pay them upfront to do anything. That’s a major hallmark of a fraud. If he can sell it for that much, he can take his fee out of the proceeds. Wouldn’t hold my breath, though.

I’ve posted a few times about the trade in agreements for timeshares there. IIRC, these guys have an upcharge for a Mexican RTU one, too. You’re probably better off just giving it away or stopping paying.
 
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