TUG MEMBERS: Joining TUG does not automatically register you as a user of the TUG Bulletin Board. You must register yourself.


*ads are disabled when logged in as a member*
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 24 years!

    Join tens of thousands of other owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered!
    Dismiss Notice
  3. TUG started 25 years ago this month in 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Check out our happy birthday post here: Happy Birthday TUG!
    Dismiss Notice
  4. TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $10,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $10Million dollars
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free! Join tens of thousands of other owners who get this every week! Latest resort reviews and the most important topics discussed by owners during the week!
    Dismiss Notice
  6. TUG is trying out a new program that will trade you a TUG membership for a Timeshare resort review if you are an expired member, or even just a guest here on the forums!

    Read more here
    Dismiss Notice
  7. Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    Read more Here
    Dismiss Notice
  8. Follow the TUG Member Banner as it travels the world on vacation with Timeshare owners! Also sign up to get the banner sent to you so you can submit a photo of your vacation with the banner to share with TUG! Banner Thread
    Dismiss Notice
  9. A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!
    Dismiss Notice

vero beach

Discussion in 'Disney Vacation Club - DVC' started by flnewbie, Feb 6, 2018.

  1. flnewbie

    flnewbie Guest

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    61
    Location:
    Zephyrhills, FL
    Resorts Owned:
    Smoketree Lodge, Banner Elk NC, Kahana Villa Resort, Maui Numerous RCI points Oceanside 99, Daytona Beach Cranberry Gold Resort, Ontario, Canada Vacation Villas at Fantasy World
    hi, I am a newbie looking to possibly buy some DVC resale - is Vero beach a good way to get in? are the benefits the same? lower maintenance fees maybe? are there any advantages to buying Vero? (we would stay there if only thing avail but would also want to trade into WDW properties as well)
     
  2. chalee94

    chalee94 TUG Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    46
    Trophy Points:
    138
    Location:
    NC
    not unless you intend to stay at VB a lot during the summer, no. it is a very poor choice to buy at VB intending to stay mostly at wdw.

    mostly the same benefits as other resales but you lose the 11 month window onsite at wdw, which can be extremely important at certain times of the year. (most resale benefits have been going away in case you were not aware...)

    much, much higher maintenance fees. part of the reason it's a poor choice.

    even if you buy in more cheaply with a VB resale, the fees will cost you more over time.

    and the hurricanes of 2017 came pretty close to crushing VB, which may have meant more fees in the form of a special assessment.

    also, if any DVC resort were to be spun out of the DVC system completely, it would be VB (the chances of this are extremely remote, but not impossible - but it is very likely that in 2042, VB will be removed from the DVC system).

    SSR is the best value if you just want to stay onsite at wdw.
     
    flnewbie likes this.
  3. Jayco29D

    Jayco29D Guest

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2017
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Northern California
    I’d recommend buying at Animal Kingdom if you want to get in cheaper. It has the cheapest resale price per point for one of the nicest resorts with a long expiration date. Saratoga and Old Key West are a little less price per point but the resale value is decreasing, you will get less time on the contract and I hear they are not as upscale as all the other DVCs and they are just as far from Magic Kingdom and they are just resorts with no theme park attached. I suspect AK resale will hold its value plus you can then book the value rooms there and save a lot of points and stay more days. Of course, best choices are the monorail resorts but they are more expensive to start with on a price per point basis. We own at Grand Floridian, Grand Cal, Aulani, Animal Kingdom and Poly.
     
    flnewbie likes this.
  4. AnnaS

    AnnaS TUG Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2008
    Messages:
    719
    Likes Received:
    58
    Trophy Points:
    238
    Location:
    Staten Island, NY
    I agree with the above. Do not buy Vero unless you plan on staying there most of the time. MF very high.
    Go with SSR, OKW or AKV. Good luck!
     
    flnewbie likes this.
  5. flnewbie

    flnewbie Guest

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    61
    Location:
    Zephyrhills, FL
    Resorts Owned:
    Smoketree Lodge, Banner Elk NC, Kahana Villa Resort, Maui Numerous RCI points Oceanside 99, Daytona Beach Cranberry Gold Resort, Ontario, Canada Vacation Villas at Fantasy World
    Thanks for the great replies :) I think I am going to look into resale AKV!
     
  6. Dean

    Dean TUG Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2005
    Messages:
    3,620
    Likes Received:
    271
    Trophy Points:
    318
    Somewhat duplicate but I'll add my take. As noted, do not buy VB unless you want to stay there routinely. It's cheaper per point but more on dues and in the long haul, that will cost more than the lower cost would save. Plus if WDW is the goal you'd always have to wait until the 7 month window. SSR is the best value and it's only 3 years less than AKV. It also has lower dues than AKV and along with BLT, the lowest of the system with both likely staying lower and I suspect, advancing at a slightly lower pace. For WDW SSR will be the best value just to get into the system, BLT will be second with AKV likely third. The off property options can be useful but again, only if on intends to use them a fair portion of the time. The best off property values $$$ wise will be Aulani or VB with a subsidized contract or HHI. I would not buy OKW unless one wants a 3 BR there most of the time because of the higher dues, shorter expiration and the risk of the transition from the 2042 expiration to the 2057 group.

    Obviously there is more than just the financial components but it is a big portion and for many, it is a requisite. Some of the resorts have options that may be cheaper that you'd have to both own there AND reserve at exactly 11 months out. These include BWV, BLT & VGV standard and AKV value & concierge. If one would use these lower point villas around 80% of the time or more, they will cut some of the costs IF one actually buys the lower points needed. In reality most won't actually use them enough to make a difference plus if one owns say SSR, it'd still be as cheap or cheaper to use for AKV or BLT than owning there and using the cheaper rooms one couldn't get at the 7 month window. For example, the last time I did the calculation, one would have to stay in an AKV value room at least 2/3 of the time and buy less points compared to using SSR points for a standard at AKV. I haven't run the numbers for SSR vs BLT but I suspect they are similar but the principles will hold regardless. BLT will have a higher buy in cost but you'd need about 5-10% less points if one made use of the BLT standard.

    Lastly, no one new to DVC without a ton of general on site stays at similar (deluxe) resorts, knows where they want to stay though many think they do, they often get caught up in the emotions. Preferences will change quickly for almost all. The most common mistakes I see with those buying in is overbuying the resort, and buying too few or too many points early on. For most situations, esp those not comparing to a 1 or 2 BR in magic season or higher, they should buy a cushion of points in the 10-20% range. More for studios, less for larger villas. And as a rule one should look to buy a full sized contract of around 150 points minimum and for most, a 25 pt retail add on contract if that doesn't put them too far over on the number of points they would use keeping the cushion in mind. I feel this is best even if they don't think they will use the current discounts, I'd think of it as insurance against future changes. For those looking at significantly less than 150-175 total the 25 pt add on likely isn't worth it unless they will know they will get significant benefit from the perks. And for those thinking a lot more points and multiple home resort, they should buy some at one resort and try it and then stretch out their purchase decision by a couple of years or more in many cases.
     
  7. Mosescan

    Mosescan TUG Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2018
    Messages:
    355
    Likes Received:
    122
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Canada
    Resorts Owned:
    HGVC - Vegas Blvd, Craigendarroch lodges x 2
    If I had, for example, 3 different contracts of 100 points each and 3 different resorts, could I use all 300 points to book at one of those resorts 11 months out or am I restricted to only using the points from that resort to book at the 11 month window? I am wondering because if I could use all of the points then it would make sense to buy most of your points at the best price and maint fee level and get a small contract where you actually want to stay most of the time.

    Thanks,
     
  8. AnnaS

    AnnaS TUG Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2008
    Messages:
    719
    Likes Received:
    58
    Trophy Points:
    238
    Location:
    Staten Island, NY
    No, you can book 11 months out for each resort you own at. You cannot combine all 300 for one resort. You can bank/and/or borrow for that particular resort.
     
  9. Mosescan

    Mosescan TUG Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2018
    Messages:
    355
    Likes Received:
    122
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Canada
    Resorts Owned:
    HGVC - Vegas Blvd, Craigendarroch lodges x 2
    So there is no point in having a bunch of small contracts at different resorts. I’m better to just have 1 large contract where I want to stay most often.

    I think this is 1 timeshare I will definitely try before I buy. If we’re only going to use it every few years, I may be better just renting. I have lots of HGVC so I only want the DVC for that true Disney experience for my kids.
     
  10. Dean

    Dean TUG Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2005
    Messages:
    3,620
    Likes Received:
    271
    Trophy Points:
    318
    There can be a point depending on how you'd use it. I would not buy without a fair amount of experience in at least 2 of 3 areas (DVC, Disney deluxe, timeshares in general). The more knowledge and experience the better but obviously one has given up savings by delaying too far into the game. I would not buy planning to go every few years. I think EOY is workable but every third year questionable at best. Plus the savings of buying for less trips is less as well. Things are at a high right now and there will be a pullback in price at some point though when and whether it's worth waiting is unknown. IMO the biggest issue is whether to buy DVC at all but after that the choice of home resort, UY & # of points is still VERY important. MOST people buying in initially make significant mistakes. They buy too few or too many points, they overpay by getting the newer most expensive resorts, they buy retail when they shouldn't and they rarely know enough to make good decisions. The exceptions are few but include people that have a ton of experience in the areas I mentioned, former DVC members, and those with a significant exposure to the system from family/friends. While some uncertainty will always be present, once one is sufficiently educated AND has the appropriate level of experience, they should KNOW what's best for them not just think they know. Statements like, this was our first trip or I've always wanted to stay at X resort so that's where I bought instantly tell you they did not make an informed decision and they're chance of it being a good one in their situation is low but they might luck out.
     
  11. Jayco29D

    Jayco29D Guest

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2017
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Northern California
    What I like about DVC is if you change your vacation patterns or make rookie mistakes, it is easy to resell your points or rent them out for about double the MFs. I am sure I have made rookie mistakes but I made the best decisions at the time I decided. Also it is nice to stay at the deluxe resorts. The MFs are fairly low compared to the market rate for DVC deluxe resorts.
     
  12. Dean

    Dean TUG Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2005
    Messages:
    3,620
    Likes Received:
    271
    Trophy Points:
    318
    But there still a real cost to do so in the range of10 to 15% of the previous cost
     
  13. Jayco29D

    Jayco29D Guest

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2017
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Northern California
    Yes but this is vacation, not an investment. It is a usage based product like a car. If you can resell your timeshare for 10%-15% less than you paid in just a couple of years, that sounds like a good decision even if you made rookie mistakes or change your vacation patterns. That is why TUG is so helpful. We all know timeshares and vacations are indulgences to begin with. On TUG, I constantly hear people talking about re-balancing their timeshare portfolio. Who can predict what they will be doing in 3, 5, 10 or 20 years? You could rent at all the DVCs to figure out what you like but that is very expensive too. It’s better to make the best decision with available information and not have regrets. I know I would not be happy with Saratoga Springs so I would never buy that resort, no matter what the financials.
     
  14. Dean

    Dean TUG Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2005
    Messages:
    3,620
    Likes Received:
    271
    Trophy Points:
    318
    IMO that it's discretionary spending/vacation doesn't give one a pass on the goal to make good decisions with finances. And depending on the choices made it may not be $2000 but $10K for a retail purchase. IMO the car example is a good one but likely not how you're thinking, buying a new car and deciding in a year you don't like it and then sell it to buy something else is possible but just as poor a choice financially. While one can't truly predict what the future will hold, many of the issues can be anticipated if one just puts in the long term thinking. Retirement, possible job changes, kids in activities and can't travel, I won't go as much as I think I will, and I won't like the resort I thought I would are all things that can and should be considered.

    I've been doing the timeshares and DVC thing a long time, since before the internet back to the Prodigy DVC BBS. I've seen lots of people waste lots of money making poor, impulsive and emotional choices including financing at ridiculous rates and buying retail because they were more comfortable doing so. If one makes a truly informed decision based on experience and real information, I'd agree with you, it's good to have the chance to adjust. But for others reading, I'd strongly suggest they put in the time, work and money to make decisions based on true knowledge and experience rather than impulsing it because it's Disney and vacation.
     
  15. Jayco29D

    Jayco29D Guest

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2017
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Northern California
    I appreciate the good advice being shared on this thread and I am sure it is super helpful to the OP. I do not think anyone wrote that buying DVC (or any timeshare) should be an impulse decision and no one suggested buying and selling within one year. DVC is a luxury purchase. If people really want to maximize finances, there are more affordable ways to visit Disney in almost equivalent style (or perhaps better style for the less money, depending on your needs). In addition, going to Disney more than once or twice in a lifetime is not a very smart financial decision. Disney is an overpriced amusement park and not an efficient use of money (from a purely financial POV). People buy DVC and visit Disney because they love it. It is magical and Disney commands a premium for that magic. Staying on site at a DVC resort is a luxury and very few people can afford it, especially at rack rates. To maximize finances, I would not recommend buying at DVC. My only point was if you do not make a perfect decision, you can at least get most or all of your money back with DVC, unlike other timeshares.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
  16. Jayco29D

    Jayco29D Guest

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2017
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Northern California
    Just for comparison purposes, I randomly grabbed two pending sales listings from DVC Resale Market. Regardless of this small price difference, I would choose Animal Kingdom over Saratoga Springs. AK is a deluxe resort with a theme park. AK is beloved by many people for the animals. Saratoga Springs is the lower end of DVC resorts and has no theme park and just as far from Magic Kingdom as AK. AK has value rooms that are super affordable for point usage. There are cheaper and more expensive point packages for these resorts but I was looking for the cheapest currently on DVC Resale Market for a mid-sized point package to make the closest possible apples to apples package comparison for pending sales for SS vs AK. I was actually shocked to see that I could find a cheaper AK package since usually SS is lower price per point (all things being equal).

    Saratoga Springs

    ID: SS9569
    160 0 | 160 | 160 Sep $97 $15,520

    Animal Kingdom

    ID: AK60060
    160 0 | 162 | 160 Jun $95 $15,200
     
  17. Dean

    Dean TUG Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2005
    Messages:
    3,620
    Likes Received:
    271
    Trophy Points:
    318
    Looking at dues alone there is a significant long term cost for AKV over SSR. The last time I compared all the numbers it was 20% more over like 30 assuming equal inflation. If one uses value at AKV that changes the numbers but the last time I did it was before the change in booking categories which also changes the numbers. While you might personally be talking about variations at entry level, many looking at buying in talk themselves into poor choices. The way I answer such questions is to the masses as well.
     
  18. littlestar

    littlestar TUG Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    2,316
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    258
    Location:
    Midwest
    Resorts Owned:
    Disney, Marriott, FWM & Wyndham pts
    I would go for SSR resale. You are close to Disney Springs with all the restaurants and shopping. AKL is dark, isolated with only one park close by bus, and more expensive dues.
     
  19. Jayco29D

    Jayco29D Guest

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2017
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Northern California
    Hi Dean, Just out of curiosity, which timeshares do you own? Which ones do you think are the best overall? You seem to have a lot of TS experience so it would be helpful to know more on your overall preferences and rationales. It is always interesting to me when I read your opinions on the various threads.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
    Southerngirl528 likes this.
  20. Jayco29D

    Jayco29D Guest

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2017
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Northern California
    P.S. I agree with Dean that from a purely economics point of view, Saratoga Springs is the cheapest to own. The MFs are a lot cheaper and could save about $1 per point per year - which adds up over time.
     
  21. Dean

    Dean TUG Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2005
    Messages:
    3,620
    Likes Received:
    271
    Trophy Points:
    318
    I'm Chairman's (top VIP) with Marriott with 16 weeks total, Platinum with Bluegreen (their highest VIP) with over 100,000 points and own a small amount each of an RCI points resort, Mx week (points individual resort) & Wyndham Points plus 433 points with DVC down from 885 years ago. Bought DVC likely as the first non family resale buyer if not the first true resale buyer period back in 1994 and Marriott fairly shortly thereafter. I've seen a lot come through, especially with DVC, and seen a lot of people waste lots of money, often 5 figures worth buying things that won't work how they envision. There are few things better than Disney at separating people from their money making poor decisions they feel great about. I've also sold some timeshares over the years, including a couple of Marriott, chunk of DVC points all at OKW, a second contract at the MX resort and several fixed week/fixed units at an Aruba resort. Thus I consider myself more educated than most for Bluegreen, Marriott, DVC and Interval/RCI esp. And my greatest area of knowledge and experience is with DVC. I've made a lot of good choices, sometimes by chance and avoided a lot of potential mistakes, also sometimes by chance. For example, the Aruba resort I mentioned was the one I both bought and sold weeks then later bought weeks which I ended up converting to Bluegreen. They had 3 special assessments while I was involved but by chance I missed the first 2 because I didn't own at weeks at the time of the SA and the last I missed most of it because I'd converted to BG points and the SA was spread over a very large group of people. That one would have been $10K had I not lucked out.

    Obviously there are variables, SSR is not the same as VGF for example. So one who has a number of trips under their belt ON PROPERTY and is well aware of the actual DVC resorts and who has a clear understanding of their goals over say the next 7-10 years should be able to make good decisions. Whether they will or not would remain to be seen. I referenced some of the common mistakes I've seen above. But there does come a time when one has to fish or cut bait. I've also seen posts from people who have looked at DVC for a decade or more who clearly are (and were) good candidates for DVC membership and haven't bought. But the issue is that the savings they've given up is minor compared to the impact for some of mistakes. Things like not only financing a timeshare but putting one's home at risk to do so. As I said, I often post to those reading now or in the future as much or more than to the specific post or person I'm replying to. So while you and I might quibble about whether we should buy SSR, AKV, BWV or BLT all resale for example; the ultimate decision for an individual may impact both their financial well-being and their usage/enjoyment of what they own. There are clearly situations where buying top or bottom or in between is best and where buying retail is best. But one who buys say VGF retail and uses at other locations most of the time literally spent an extra $10-15K they didn't need to AND they may not be able to use it how they want/envision. And that $10K will be $50K when one looks at what they could have done with the extra funds that were wasted. We don't want make perfect the enemy of good but we want to avoid as many mistakes and make as good choices as possible.
     
    Southerngirl528 and kukenan like this.
  22. Jayco29D

    Jayco29D Guest

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2017
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    124
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Northern California
    Thanks Dean. Your personal experience and background with timeshares is impressive. I admire that you are posting on TUG to help others avoid making big financial mistakes. I tend to comment from what I like personally, with a little less overall concern for the financial implications. However, I am value conscious and do not want to waste our hard earned money either. TUG - and folks like you with a lot of timeshare experience - have helped me immensely in saving a lot of money in many ways. I am sure others feel the same way. It’s helpful to know you have a lot of experience with DVC, Marriott and Interval/RCI. I look forward to learning more from you.
     
    Southerngirl528 likes this.
  23. littlestar

    littlestar TUG Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    2,316
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    258
    Location:
    Midwest
    Resorts Owned:
    Disney, Marriott, FWM & Wyndham pts
    Dean's advice years ago on the Dis boards gave me the courage and information to buy our first Marriott. :D
     
    Southerngirl528 and Jayco29D like this.
  24. Dean

    Dean TUG Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2005
    Messages:
    3,620
    Likes Received:
    271
    Trophy Points:
    318
    That's the beauty of places like TUG, the group mentality to help each other. We each bring something to the table.
     
    Southerngirl528 and Jayco29D like this.
  25. Southerngirl528

    Southerngirl528 TUG Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Messages:
    383
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    138
    Location:
    Orlando
    I've wondered the same thing, Jayco29D, as Dean seems to have a lot of background. :)

    Fascinating! Thanks for posting this, Dean. :thumbup: So you obviously are a fan of TS! :clap: Do you mostly rent, or are you semi-retired making the rounds of all those fabulous TS you have? :banana:
     

Share This Page