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Value of HICV Points vs. Wyndham Points

Discussion in 'All Other Timeshare Systems' started by skotrla, Jun 13, 2018 at 1:46 AM.

  1. skotrla

    skotrla TUG Member

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    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Qg7jd4yPldw-HPWaPkVk1E68KsETwoIuyBFnJPulkgw/edit?usp=sharing

    I took the annual points for the cheapest 2BR at each resort to come up with a median 2BR cost of 8.2M points (158K/week).

    My interest was in comparing Wyndham point costs with HICV points costs - this compares to 6.1M (117K/week) for HICV.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HB00pcN4u116afQyKAG1iumSddSaSTmC8rf5OoeN9Yc/edit?usp=sharing

    This 25% point difference matches what I saw looking at a small sample of resorts that overlap between HICV and Wyndham - what it doesn't answer is whether the median Wyndham 2BR is 25% nicer/better locations than the median 2BR HICV or whether the Wyndham points are 25% less valuable than HICV points.

    If someone has experience with both clubs, it would be great to get some feedback on the quality/value of some Wyndham resorts in the 8.2M range vs. some HICV resorts in the 6.1M range. If the Wyndham units in this range are higher end units, then Wyndham overall resorts are likely just higher end. If the units are comparable, then Wyndham points are likely less valuable than HICV points.

    -Scott
    Owner, HICV Google+ Group
     
  2. skotrla

    skotrla TUG Member

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    I did the same analysis for FL units only, as that might be a better comparison.

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1v5YIoLN2PhAi5HJROWxqrv_N68b6raBt

    HICV FL units are about 22% fewer points than Wyndham FL units (vs. 26% overall). The two median HICV resorts are both Orange Lake vs. the median Wyndham resorts are Bonnet Creek and Sea Gardens. Has anybody been to both Wyndham and HICV resorts out of these median resorts? Are they comparable or is Wyndham 22% nicer?

    -Scott
     
  3. tschwa2

    tschwa2 Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    Do you mean median in points value or MF cost or overall quality. I haven't stayed at Sea Gardens so I can't comment but I believe it is an older resort with more than one phase and the quality may differ between the phases more than between the phases at Orange Lake.

    If you are talking median in terms of quality I would say that both Orange Lake would be in the top 10-25% of the total HICV portfolio- I think the Silver Leaf addition dragged that median down quite a bit. Bonnet Creek also would be in the top 10-25% of the total Wyndham portfolio- and this is comparing standard (non signature- hicv and non presidential wyndham units). I would give the edge to Bonnet Creek in terms of furnishing, maintenance and decor and refurbishment schedule. I think Wyndham does both refreshes and full refurbs more often so you are less likely to get a unit that is in need of a refresh. I also give it to Bonnet creek for not charging for mini golf and floats to use the Lazy river. You also have more units that have easier access to the pools and other amenities without driving or taking the shuttle. I think if you were just comparing the non signature river island units to bonnet creek they would be comparable. Orange Lake as a whole below but I don't know that I would go more than 12-15% nicer for Bonnet Creek. For people who like quieter non mega resorts, neither would be a good fit for an Orlando vacation. But both systems have quieter resorts that require fewer points for those that want something smaller or don't have the points for basically the flagship resorts in the system.
     
    nuwermj likes this.
  4. skotrla

    skotrla TUG Member

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    Median in annual unit points (points to rent the unit for a whole year, which is a useful metric for comparing resorts with different seasons and different demand levels between seasons) - from that perspective, these HICV and Wyndham units are median units across each system, but the HICV one is 22% fewer points than the Wyndham one. This would be the lowest point 2BR in each resort - for Orange Lake, median would be East and North (West a little lower and River Island a little higher). From what you say, half of the points difference is due to Wyndham resorts being a little higher quality and the rest could be due to Wyndham points being slightly less valuable.

    -Scott
     
  5. bnoble

    bnoble TUG Member

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    Just looking at the portfolios of the two resort systems, I don't see the point of trying to directly compare them; they are in different equivalence classes. Similarly, I would not try to directly compare Wyndham with e.g. Marriott, for the same reason. It's a qualitative decision, not a quantitative one.

    But if you find it interesting, have at it.
     
  6. skotrla

    skotrla TUG Member

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    I'm an HICV Elite owner trying to understand how points compare between the systems, so that I can make an informed decision regarding expanding into Wyndham. Put another way, what I am trying to understand is if Wyndham were to purchase a resort from HICV (or vice versa), would they change the points or leave them the same?

    -Scott
     
  7. paxsarah

    paxsarah TUG Member

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    I mean, in a purely practical sense, if this were to ever happen they would 100% change the points. The HICV points would be completely discarded and Wyndham would develop their own points chart and institute their own seasons. Not only are they different currencies but they are currencies for which there is no real exchange rate.
     
  8. Braindead

    Braindead TUG Member

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    Instead of comparing points you need to compare the MF cost on similar reservations.
    That’s the apples to apples comparison. What does a reservation cost in dollars not points.
    Wyndham buys or merges with HICV one of the points charts goes bye bye. Wyndham would come up with a prorated points for your current points and that’s what you would go by or HICV stays as a separate system like Shell or WorldMark
     
  9. tschwa2

    tschwa2 Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    The ironic thing is HICV points were actually set by RCI in agreement with HICV. Unlike most resorts that have their own points system HICV decided to adopt RCI points values but simply doubled them in their internal system.

    As we know RCI points and and Wyndham points do not have any direct relationship.
     
  10. skotrla

    skotrla TUG Member

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    Can you give an example of how RCI points work for Wyndham? While there is not a direct relationship, there might be value in looking at average mappings across the portfolio using the spreadsheet. I've seen point charts based on unit size and season, but I'm not 100% sure how those are used.

    -Scott
     
  11. bnoble

    bnoble TUG Member

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    You already know this for both systems. Wyndham bought WorldMark and Shell, and left them alone for the most part, so nothing changed* for WorldMark/Shell owners. HICV bought Silverleaf, and merged them. In the former, you'd still want to own in both to book in both. In the latter, you don't need Wyndham points unless you feel like gambling that you will win out in the conversion. And AFAIK, timeshare owners never seem to come out ahead vs. developers when that sort of thing happens.

    So, like most other people, I have no idea what you are really trying to do here, or why.

    *: Okay, not quite true, because of Club Pass. But most people seem to think that owning in the other system is better than using Club Pass to cross-book unless you do it only infrequently.
     
  12. skotrla

    skotrla TUG Member

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    Let me rephrase - say a week in HICV is 200K points. If Wyndham were to buy a resort from HICV would the resort be 200K Wyndham points or something different? Wyndham charges less for weekends then HICV does, so there would definitely be changes, but I'm really asking the same question about the value of HICV points vs. Wyndham points that I've been asking all week :)

    For example, Escapes Galveston was 7.8M points for a 2BR for a year - when HICV bought the resort, they made the following changes:

    Bronze: 109K -> 84K
    Silver: no change
    Platinum: 150K -> 168K
    Diamond: 170K -> 211K
    Weeks in each season: no changes

    They also changed the weekend rate from 27.5% of a week per night to 25%, but that had no impact on weekly or annual point values. The end result was a 2BR in HICV Galveston costing 8.8M points for a year, making HICV points 11% less valuable than Escapes points at least for this resort.

    For Panama City Beach, they made similar changes, including moving a few weeks around between seasons, with similar results (7.7M -> 8.8M, 12% less valuable).

    -Scott
     

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