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Use to work in sales at Wyndham

ronparise

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Pretty much none of what Ron did is relevant to you. What is relevant is his experience in buying and the criteria he used in making his decisions about what he bought. You would have to go back to threads starting after August 2016 to understand his history. If you have the time it is interesting reading. Ron bought, sold, bought more and sold more to the tune of something like 30 million points a year for several years. He ended up in negotiations for a settlement with Wyndham which resulted in him no longer being a Wyndham owner. He and others doing the same thing resulted in Wyndham making changes to prevent what they had done from happening in the future.

To save you a great deal of time reading back through all those threads and the posts on them here is a quick summation. For the most part Ron business plan was to buy a large volume of points cheap. He had a great rental business going at the New Orleans properties.The people who had profitable rental businesses were referred to as megarenters. Ron stripped the deeds and contracts he bought of three years points only paying maintenance fees for the current year, no longer possible btw, used some points to make his rental reservations and had point managers who paid him for the huge amounts of points he wasn't using. The points managers then made reservations with those points and rented stays to make their money. After a second year of credit pooling the next available year's points, using some of them for them his own rentals and getting paid by the point managers for the rest of them, he then sold off the stripped deeds and contracts that had no points in them for the next several years. Wyndham did away with the credit pool and took back those stripped contracts and deeds. Not sure if any of those point manager survived the purge either.

Between the new Wyndham website in May, 2017 with the changes it brought and the changes to the VIP benefits in April, 2017 most of us have been impacted to some degree and most negatively. Those changes made it much harder for many owners who did quite a bit of renting to get the reservations they were used to getting and make the money they once did. When the new website was launched it was because the Wyndham powers that be didn't listen to their IT people, hit the panic button and forced the roll out of the new website prematurely. The result was quite honestly a p.o.s. website that they have been working hard to fix and still needs work.

This is a pretty good summation of the last few years
 

ronparise

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It was a draw, enough to cover benefits, and when you had commission that draw was taken back.

That’s how things worked at Dean Witter, when I was a stock broker.

For those that don’t know the draw is against commission. My draw was $500 and was paid on the 15th. My commissions, less that draw, were paid on the 30th

So we stockbrokers and the Wyndham salesmen weee paid on a straight commission basis
 

ronparise

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I have several friends and such that still work at Wyndham, some sales reps, some directors of sales and some site and area VP's. I cannot bad mouth Wyndham, as 1) I have no reason too 2) I have respect for my colleagues that still work there..

Ron that is a very interesting story. We used to sell ALOT of alternate use years at my site. Anyone with 1,000,000 points or more, it was an easy sell, because it allowed to perpetual points rolling without RCI and the PCP. Wyndham also closed that loophole. I had to call ALL of my owners that I sold that to and tell them it was not going to work anymore. So if anyone is wondering why their use years all went to the same time, its because of that "Glitch" in the system.

But its like everything else. There are reasons certain programs are rolled out. The product developers at Wyndham are brilliant people. They are very nice and such as well. They spend their time brainstorming on whats next.

Its like the "In-Unit" Visits where the sales person came to your room, then that didnt work anymore they went to " Owner Workshops" so whats next? Who knows, but they dont last forever. Something new will come.. I just hope for its the benefits of the owners. Wyndhams biggest business issue is brow beating their owners OVER and OVER and OVER. It looks like they have taken some good steps recently with ovations and the old Pathways program.


The guy that managed my points rolled them in that way. And to help him I always made sure I had contracts in every use year. My problem was just the opposite. Most of my points were used in the first 6 months of the year. I never had enough points I seldom cancelled anything so I had no need to roll them forward.
To the contrary I was, in the words of the attorney that took me out, a points puller
 
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It was a great, for lack of a better word, exploitation of the system, but that is now closed unfortunately, I do not know what the new Wyndham pitch is these days, I'm on to other industry related things, RCI Points which I really like because of the lower maint. cost etc. But thats neither here nor there.

What is the new pitch these days?
 
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I think you just hit on the crux of the problem with timeshare sales tactics especially, and to a lesser extent on any sales model that is designed to manipulate people to encourage emotional vs factual decision making.

To me, ANY sales model that encourages anyone to make major life decisions that have a major financial impact within a period of hours is by definition designed to intentionally manipulate people. My wife fell for it last week and we ended up rescinding. The fact that Wyndham intentionally requires both husband and wife (or SO) is by design NOT because they necessarily want both decision makers - it’s really because it doubles their chances of a sale if one of the two people involved let’s their emotions get the best of them. We all want to please our spouses and therefore we are less likely to resist our spouse in the moment. This approach, at its core, is fundamentally dishonest in my view.

Thankfully, the internet and social media have largely become the great equalizers in minimizing and preventing these types of sales practices from proliferating further. Car sales tactics the old fashioned way are a dying breed thanks to the power of technology. I for one will celebrate the day when the aggressive and manipulative sales practices used by timeshare companies becomes a thing of the past. We are now armed with tons of information literally at our fingertips to help us avoid making impulsive decisions.

While I’m no sales person, I’m trained and certified in the pragmatic market framework and therefore understand how to design and implement sales models using various buyer and seller personas. When I was sitting with our 19 year old sales associate who was brand new at Wyndham, I coached her on all of this while we were waiting for her boss. On how her role was to act as an advocate for the customer and that she intentionally did not handle any of the financials and negotiations because that’s a different persona by design. Her persona was to gain the trust of the customer and build a relationship to attempt to get customers to let their guard down. It’s all very intentional and very much by design how they sell. It’s very systematic. That much I know for certain.




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You can be sure its a systematic approach. The only thing I disagree with is the first paragraph about the husband and wife. They both have to be there because, as we in the industry call them, 1 leggers, they rescission rate is extremely high. "Hey Honey, I just spent 25k without you and bought somemore points"
 

ronparise

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It was a great, for lack of a better word, exploitation of the system, but that is now closed unfortunately, I do not know what the new Wyndham pitch is these days, I'm on to other industry related things, RCI Points which I really like because of the lower maint. cost etc. But thats neither here nor there.

What is the new pitch these days?


RCI points are here and there

Ive heard of places that sell "pure points" Thats impossible of course as we know RCI points are connected to specific ownerships. Can you tell us, specifically, whats being sold when you sell RCI points, and is it done with the blessing of RCI itself
 
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Lisa P

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I'm on to other industry related things, RCI Points which I really like because of the lower maint. cost etc.
Some people with RCI Points report very good value on maintenance fees and others, not so much. Most reports around here center around resale purchases. Could you share about developer packages in RCI Points with "lower maint cost" that you consider a good value when compared with their resale alternatives? Which developers?
 
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RCI points are here and there

Ive heard of places that sell "pure points" Thats impossible of course as we know RCI points are connected to specific ownerships. Can you tell us, specifically, whats being sold when you sell RCI points, and is it done with the blessing of RCI itself

So RCI points are basically a deeded week (and in our case) the week is retained by the developer and its automatically enrolled into RCI points each year. The RCI Points are deposited into the RCI account of the owner. The upside to this is we allow our owners to walk away after 6 years. RCI Points are sanctioned by RCI because to get RCI points for the week, the resort has to be a member of RCI and has to accept the points across the exchange system.
 
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RCI points are here and there

Ive heard of places that sell "pure points" Thats impossible of course as we know RCI points are connected to specific ownerships. Can you tell us, specifically, whats being sold when you sell RCI points, and is it done with the blessing of RCI itself

Pure points, I am still not sure how they are legit. Basically from my understanding is, the owner buys 10,000 points and then can rent up to 500k through the resort. I have heard mixed reviews on how RCI feels about this. One side says RCI knows and is ok with it, the other side said its a SCAM. So who really know. The problem is with RCI points, you need atleast 60k to get a decent week somewhere and to rent 50k points at .03 a point, your paying $1500 dollars. With real RCI points you could have 150,000 and get more than that 1 week.

Pure Points in MY opinion is garbage. Its a sleezy sales technique that someone found while exploiting the system.
 
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Some people with RCI Points report very good value on maintenance fees and others, not so much. Most reports around here center around resale purchases. Could you share about developer packages in RCI Points with "lower maint cost" that you consider a good value when compared with their resale alternatives? Which developers?

When it comes to RCI points, my main focus would be maint cost. because all points really are points in RCI. It doesn't matter if you have a 3bdrm in Hawaii that is converted to points, or a studio in branson. What matters is how many points its worth and the maint on those points. The ones I sell and have sold are .01 per point. So 105,000 RCI points is $1050 a year. If you really know how to use the system you can get some good value with that. The big pitch out and about is you can get anything you want for 10k points. Thats not true. NOW you can get weeks for 10k points and less. BUT you have to be able to go last minute and its hit or miss on whats there to book. Ive seen Hawaii for 7500 points. Its a rare occasion but it does happen.

In my opinion, you need a minimum of 60k points to really get a good look at whats available.
 
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Some people with RCI Points report very good value on maintenance fees and others, not so much. Most reports around here center around resale purchases. Could you share about developer packages in RCI Points with "lower maint cost" that you consider a good value when compared with their resale alternatives? Which developers?

Just FYI,

There are no good resale values when it comes to RCI Points. They can be had for pennies just like everything else. If you can find a good maint fee and a good amount of points, then by all means.. Get it!!
 
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RCI points are here and there

Ive heard of places that sell "pure points" Thats impossible of course as we know RCI points are connected to specific ownerships. Can you tell us, specifically, whats being sold when you sell RCI points, and is it done with the blessing of RCI itself

I would even go as far as to say, its a right to use product instead of an actual "Ownership"
 

T-Dot-Traveller

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So RCI points are basically a deeded week (and in our case) the week is retained by the developer and its automatically enrolled into RCI points each year. The RCI Points are deposited into the RCI account of the owner. The upside to this is we allow our owners to walk away after 6 years. .

So resort xx has weeks converted to RCI points / you find buyers ( ie : long term renters who sign a " term lease " )

The 6 year RTU( minimum ) cycle gives both parties a level of certainty .
For the buyer: who wants (say) Myrtle Beach in the summer - this allows them to plan & book 12 + months out .
For the resort with developer weeks - mud to prime / you take care of repackaging into 60 K (or better ) of point packages .

*********
...... If you can find a good maint fee and a good amount of points, then by all means.. Get it!![/QUOTE]
*********

I assume the -" by all means .. Get it ! " is aimed at TUG members who have experience .

Away we Go / Alan Cole - once posted that ,when he first bought Vac. Village Parkway in RCI points on ebay / he did not know that there were different points values
for the same MF He bought a lower point week for pennies on ebay . Later he sold it for pennies and paid a bit more to get the 92,500 point contract .

Your program makes sense for someone who is not ready to go through that learning curve / and just wants some nice family vacations
without a " forever commitment .
 
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tschwa2

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When it comes to RCI points, my main focus would be maint cost. because all points really are points in RCI. It doesn't matter if you have a 3bdrm in Hawaii that is converted to points, or a studio in branson. What matters is how many points its worth and the maint on those points. The ones I sell and have sold are .01 per point. So 105,000 RCI points is $1050 a year. If you really know how to use the system you can get some good value with that. The big pitch out and about is you can get anything you want for 10k points. Thats not true. NOW you can get weeks for 10k points and less. BUT you have to be able to go last minute and its hit or miss on whats there to book. Ive seen Hawaii for 7500 points. Its a rare occasion but it does happen.

In my opinion, you need a minimum of 60k points to really get a good look at whats available.

The problem I have with RCI points and RCI in general is the ever increasing fees associated with exchanges, membership fees, and guest certificates. Add the fact that more and more resorts are adding resort fees on top of everything else some of which specifically only apply to RCI and II exchanges make RCI points less and less attractive even if your points are at or under a penny per RCI point.
 

harveyhaddixfan

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The problem I have with RCI points and RCI in general is the ever increasing fees associated with exchanges, membership fees, and guest certificates. Add the fact that more and more resorts are adding resort fees on top of everything else some of which specifically only apply to RCI and II exchanges make RCI points less and less attractive even if your points are at or under a penny per RCI point.

Amen to that! It’s how I can still justify keeping my week at Beachwoods @ over $1k a year for a 2BR lockout. Would cost me $800-900 on a trade with the points costing about $400 (37k for a 1BR 4/4 just before prime season), $240 exchange, $175 extortion fee, I mean resort fee plus the cost of RCI membership and a $79 guest Cert if I wasn’t checking in.

What’s good though are places like the Wyndham PCB where you can get a 1BR in prime for 37k-45k. All in max there is like $750, a steal for a gulf front room in the summer.
 
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I disagree with some of the info above, but to each their own.


There are benefits to both, RCI fee's have increased, but I would assume the increase in RCI fees, dont match the increase in maint fee (Obviously pending where you own)

It really depends on how you travel as a individual. If you want unit 202 every year in Panama City Beach Fl, you need to own that. But if your flexible, RCI Points seem to be a winner.

This is just my opinion though.
 
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Exchange fees vary depending on if you are exchanging into an RCI points resort or an RCI Weeks resort.
 
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So resort xx has weeks converted to RCI points / you find buyers ( ie : long term renters who sign a " term lease " )

The 6 year RTU( minimum ) cycle gives both parties a level of certainty .
For the buyer: who wants (say) Myrtle Beach in the summer - this allows them to plan & book 12 + months out .
For the resort with developer weeks - mud to prime / you take care of repackaging into 60 K (or better ) of point packages .

*********
...... If you can find a good maint fee and a good amount of points, then by all means.. Get it!!
*********

I assume the -" by all means .. Get it ! " is aimed at TUG members who have experience .

Away we Go / Alan Cole - once posted that ,when he first bought Vac. Village Parkway in RCI points on ebay / he did not know that there were different points values
for the same MF He bought a lower point week for pennies on ebay . Later he sold it for pennies and paid a bit more to get the 92,500 point contract .

Your program makes sense for someone who is not ready to go through that learning curve / and just wants some nice family vacations
without a " forever commitment .[/QUOTE]

The 6 Year opt out is a big feature for alot of people.

Yes, Vacation Village has some nice points pgks especially if you are exchanging a bit. I agree with that. that 92,500 is a nice package. I also like the bigger pkg they have.

I personally own 47k RCI points, and A week at Marriott, and I can say Im able to go last minute and get 3 weeks a year as long as I dont have a particular place to go.
 
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Just ran a quick search on my account.

This is how I travel (Its not for everyone)
 

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If you can travel last min, the deals are unbeatable.
Bonnet Creek- 7,900 Points- $79 in maint fees. and a $239 Exchange Fee.

And that a 2bdrm
 

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tschwa2

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Exchange fees vary depending on if you are exchanging into an RCI points resort or an RCI Weeks resort.
Yes $239 for weeks inventory and $209 for 7-13 days into points inventory. On top of that points membership fee averages $102 if you re-up every 2 years. The message my home resort is giving is that RCI is encouraging resorts to add daily resort fees to exchanges to add to their revenue in the amount of $10-$25 per night. That is another $70-$175 for a 7 night stay. And all of this is fine and dandy for the most prime of stays if you can happen to get what you want but for anything other than prime when you $400 in fees before even using any points not so much.
 

tschwa2

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If you can travel last min, the deals are unbeatable.
Bonnet Creek- 7,900 Points- $79 in maint fees. and a $209 Exchange Fee.

And that a 2bdrm
None of the ones you showed gave you more than a 30 day lead time, so yes it can work great for those who have off the whole summer and can travel to florida or Hawaii with very little lead time. Discounted inventory is also almost exclusively weeks inventory which would bring the exchange fee up to $239 not $209. I wouldn't be surprised if most of those last minute offers are also in last calls for $294 or less.

I know you now sell your RCI points packages and you are trying hard to convince potential customers but it isn't nearly as rosy as you make it seem, although it can work for some.
 

Jan M.

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Yes $239 for weeks inventory and $209 for 7-13 days into points inventory. On top of that points membership fee averages $102 if you re-up every 2 years. The message my home resort is giving is that RCI is encouraging resorts to add daily resort fees to exchanges to add to their revenue in the amount of $10-$25 per night. That is another $70-$175 for a 7 night stay. And all of this is fine and dandy for the most prime of stays if you can happen to get what you want but for anything other than prime when you $400 in fees before even using any points not so much.

The exchange fee for RCI points is $239 for a 7 night stay.
 
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None of the ones you showed gave you more than a 30 day lead time, so yes it can work great for those who have off the whole summer and can travel to florida or Hawaii with very little lead time. Discounted inventory is also almost exclusively weeks inventory which would bring the exchange fee up to $239 not $209. I wouldn't be surprised if most of those last minute offers are also in last calls for $294 or less.

I know you now sell your RCI points packages and you are trying hard to convince potential customers but it isn't nearly as rosy as you make it seem, although it can work for some.

I am in NO way trying to convince ANYONE. I use it for me. I dont understand why you feel the need to attack me as a "Sales Person".. I dont care what whoever owns, I really 100% could careless. Im sure youre the guy who trolls around all the post looking to flex your keyboard muscles. You are barking up the wrong tree.. I dont care what your opinion is. I was simply stating what works for me. :)
 
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None of the ones you showed gave you more than a 30 day lead time, so yes it can work great for those who have off the whole summer and can travel to florida or Hawaii with very little lead time. Discounted inventory is also almost exclusively weeks inventory which would bring the exchange fee up to $239 not $209. I wouldn't be surprised if most of those last minute offers are also in last calls for $294 or less.

I know you now sell your RCI points packages and you are trying hard to convince potential customers but it isn't nearly as rosy as you make it seem, although it can work for some.

The problem is you're SO jaded by the timeshare industry, you jump at every chance to try and prove someone wrong. And in this instance YOU CANT. 7,900 Points for a week in a 2bdrm at Bonnett Creek is cheaper than you will every find it, no matter what system you look in.. and I also stated i travel last min, if you can travel last min. etc etc. That was not covered up. Ive been in this industry a long time and can assure you there is no special program for a mass of people. Everyone's travel habits are different and some of the WORSE programs work the BEST for certain people.
 
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