Upgrading a timeshare to receive better resale value later

[badjohn]

My wife and I owned a timeshare in the SeaWorld complex in Orlando. We purchased it in 2012 for $18000 ($16000 minus legals) and get 3500 points per year. As the maintenance fee on this property is rather high it has been a sore point although we do use it one way or the other. The only reason that we bought it was that I mistakenly thought that the ability to buy unsold rooms with cash at an 80% discount applied to all Hilton hotels and not just Grand Vacation properties.
At the time the Australian dollar was actually higher than the US dollar but it has been falling ever since.

Last month we stayed at the Tuscany Village in Orlando and went to a presentation with our problem. The salesman talked us into upgrading our SeaWorld timeshare to a Tuscany Village timeshare at a cost of $12000 and with 5000 points per year and a slightly lower maintenance fee. We were thinking that after a year or so of use we would be able to recover more money in a resale (after upgrading) than if we just stayed with the old property that we had. The salesman pointed out that after being offered an upgrade if we didn't take it we could not upgrade in future (as distinct from just buying a new timeshare and having the old one (with its maintenance fee as well). Is this supposition correct or should we have just kept the old SeaWorld one and simply tried to sell it or abandoned it when our use was finished?

Although the seven day cooling off period has well and truly passed we received a fedex package two days ago with more papers to sign. I suspect that they have made a mistake and that we may be able to get out of the deal. Living in Australia is a disadvantage for us in using the timeshare benefits.

We will have to phone them tomorrow so any advice would be really appreciated by us.

John,
Australia

 

[JohnPaul]

Your resale value will be much less than developer prices no matter what you do, so paying more in hopes of a higher resale value is not a good plan.

With regards to anything the salesman said, I would take it with a grain of salt.

Good luck trying to get out of it (which is usually unlikely after the recession period). If you can not, do your best to enjoy what you have.

 

[badjohn]

Your resale value will be much less than developer prices no matter what you do, so paying more in hopes of a higher resale value is not a good plan.

With regards to anything the salesman said, I would take it with a grain of salt.

Good luck trying to get out of it (which is usually unlikely after the recession period). If you can not, do your best to enjoy what you have.

Thanks so much John Paul. I shall follow your advice.
John Richard

 

[Panina]

My wife and I owned a timeshare in the SeaWorld complex in Orlando. We purchased it in 2012 for $18000 ($16000 minus legals) and get 3500 points per year. As the maintenance fee on this property is rather high it has been a sore point although we do use it one way or the other. The only reason that we bought it was that I mistakenly thought that the ability to buy unsold rooms with cash at an 80% discount applied to all Hilton hotels and not just Grand Vacation properties.
At the time the Australian dollar was actually higher than the US dollar but it has been falling ever since.

Last month we stayed at the Tuscany Village in Orlando and went to a presentation with our problem. The salesman talked us into upgrading our SeaWorld timeshare to a Tuscany Village timeshare at a cost of $12000 and with 5000 points per year and a slightly lower maintenance fee. We were thinking that after a year or so of use we would be able to recover more money in a resale (after upgrading) than if we just stayed with the old property that we had. The salesman pointed out that after being offered an upgrade if we didn't take it we could not upgrade in future (as distinct from just buying a new timeshare and having the old one (with its maintenance fee as well). Is this supposition correct or should we have just kept the old SeaWorld one and simply tried to sell it or abandoned it when our use was finished?

Although the seven day cooling off period has well and truly passed we received a fedex package two days ago with more papers to sign. I suspect that they have made a mistake and that we may be able to get out of the deal. Living in Australia is a disadvantage for us in using the timeshare benefits.

We will have to phone them tomorrow so any advice would be really appreciated by us.

John,
Australia

Welcome to Tug.

You probably cannot get out of it unless the papers they sent you is a contract saying the other one is wrong. 5000 points will give you better options then the 3500. Money is spent, just enjoy and if you want more points, next time buy resale, stick around tug and learn.

 

[dayooper]

My wife and I owned a timeshare in the SeaWorld complex in Orlando. We purchased it in 2012 for $18000 ($16000 minus legals) and get 3500 points per year. As the maintenance fee on this property is rather high it has been a sore point although we do use it one way or the other. The only reason that we bought it was that I mistakenly thought that the ability to buy unsold rooms with cash at an 80% discount applied to all Hilton hotels and not just Grand Vacation properties.
At the time the Australian dollar was actually higher than the US dollar but it has been falling ever since.

Last month we stayed at the Tuscany Village in Orlando and went to a presentation with our problem. The salesman talked us into upgrading our SeaWorld timeshare to a Tuscany Village timeshare at a cost of $12000 and with 5000 points per year and a slightly lower maintenance fee. We were thinking that after a year or so of use we would be able to recover more money in a resale (after upgrading) than if we just stayed with the old property that we had. The salesman pointed out that after being offered an upgrade if we didn't take it we could not upgrade in future (as distinct from just buying a new timeshare and having the old one (with its maintenance fee as well). Is this supposition correct or should we have just kept the old SeaWorld one and simply tried to sell it or abandoned it when our use was finished?

Although the seven day cooling off period has well and truly passed we received a fedex package two days ago with more papers to sign. I suspect that they have made a mistake and that we may be able to get out of the deal. Living in Australia is a disadvantage for us in using the timeshare benefits.

We will have to phone them tomorrow so any advice would be really appreciated by us.

John,
Australia

I agree with @JohnPaul. While the 5000 point will be easier to get rid of, you will still lose money upgrading over just trying to give the silver interval away. @Panina is correct as well, you are probably going to be stuck with the upgrade. They usually don't mess up with the paperwork and contracts. If you want a lawyer to go over them, it might be worth a shot.

My biggest suggestion is to try and use it! Go to Hawaii! You can get a 1 bedroom platinum or a 2 bedroom gold at Bay Club or Kohala on the Big Island for your yearly points. If Hawaii isn't an option, try trading into RCI. I know it's frowned upon around here, but if those points are going to waste, you might even convert them to HHonors points. Most importantly, until you are able to sell it, use your points! Aside from the Sales department, HGVC is such a good product. It's very flexible and they treat their owners really well. Take advantage of what you have and don't let those points go to waste.

Good Luck and I hope everything works out for you! If you do decide to use those points, stick around and learn from this community. Their knowledge is invaluable!

 

[Passepartout]

I think you are considering timeshare an investment. So far, I have never seen anyone actually break even on a developer purchase. If you can, get them to rescind this purchase.

Jim

 

[frank808]

Dont do it! You are throwing good money away chasing lost money.

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk

 

[SmithOp]

Agree with the other comments, stop talking to HGVC sales staff. That was an outright lie that trade ins are one time option. Its in your contract, the right to upgrade and get full credit from your original purchase - although its not advised, buy resale if you want more.

Water under the bridge now, use what you own, Hawaii or Japan is closest to you.


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[dayooper]

I think you are considering timeshare an investment. So far, I have never seen anyone actually break even on a developer purchase. If you can, get them to rescind this purchase.

Jim

I don't even consider my resale a monetary investment. I'm fully prepared to give it away, if I have to.

 

[brp]

I don't even consider my resale a monetary investment. I'm fully prepared to give it away, if I have to.

People have, and still do, made/make substantial amounts on DVC resales due to the increases in Direct prices. We have a couple that we could sell for a fair bit more than we paid. Even so, never a good idea to purchase this thinking of it as anything but sunk cost.

Cheers.

 

[audirt]

I want to chime in with one part of your story that others haven't addressed: the "you can't upgrade later" claim the sales guy told you.

In short, when it's done with high pressure, it sounds like they mean it. They make it sound like it's a law or something. It's just BS; a total lie. I know because I've done this exact thing.

We, in what was the 2nd biggest financial mistake of my life, purchased 1700pts from HGVC @ Elara. 18 months later, we'd figured out just how worthless 1700 points really was. We go to an owners update and they offer us an upgrade with the whole, "if you turn it down today, you won't be able to upgrade later." We declined that offer.

After the meeting, I wanted to be done with the unit. I was willing to give it away except no one, not even Hilton, would take it. I hadn't found TUG yet and my only option seemed to be to let the unit go into default. Ultimately I valued my credit rating too much to do this.

Long story short, fast forward another year and we're in (another) presentation. We describe our problem again -- not enough points, poor pt-to-mf, etc. They offer us another upgrade which we reluctantly accepted. We arguably threw good money after bad, but my credit rating didn't suffer and we at least wound up with a much better ownership that suits our needs. (Our MFs fees stayed constant despite going from 1700pts to 7000).

TL;DR: All sales guys will claim that the upgrade offer is one-time-only. It's not. They will happily sell you more points whenever they can.

 

[brp]

I want to chime in with one part of your story that others haven't addressed: the "you can't upgrade later" claim the sales guy told you.

In short, when it's done with high pressure, it sounds like they mean it. They make it sound like it's a law or something. It's just BS; a total lie. I know because I've done this exact thing.

Yup. Each time you go, they're willing to make this "special, this time only" offer available.

Cheers.

 

[hurnik]

Yup. Each time you go, they're willing to make this "special, this time only" offer available.

Cheers.

Just like a car salesman, LOL!

 

[Sandy VDH]

buying developer to sell resale is a bad idea. Buy resale ONLY.

 

[DannyTS]

the best contracts (EY, platinum, low MF) are $1 a point resale. If you pay more than that when you upgrade you can only subtract value from your ownership.

 

[Sky313]

Just like a car salesman, LOL!

i always buy my cars resale (used) ... but lots of america love their new cars! There's a market when you got persuasive salesmen!

 

[brp]

i always buy my cars resale (used) ... but lots of america love their new cars! There's a market when you got persuasive salesmen!

Except that all timeshares are used. Even the "new" ones

Cheers.

 

[Tamaradarann]

I agree with @JohnPaul. While the 5000 point will be easier to get rid of, you will still lose money upgrading over just trying to give the silver interval away. @Panina is correct as well, you are probably going to be stuck with the upgrade. They usually don't mess up with the paperwork and contracts. If you want a lawyer to go over them, it might be worth a shot.

My biggest suggestion is to try and use it! Go to Hawaii! You can get a 1 bedroom platinum or a 2 bedroom gold at Bay Club or Kohala on the Big Island for your yearly points. If Hawaii isn't an option, try trading into RCI. I know it's frowned upon around here, but if those points are going to waste, you might even convert them to HHonors points. Most importantly, until you are able to sell it, use your points! Aside from the Sales department, HGVC is such a good product. It's very flexible and they treat their owners really well. Take advantage of what you have and don't let those points go to waste.

Good Luck and I hope everything works out for you! If you do decide to use those points, stick around and learn from this community. Their knowledge is invaluable!

I agree with the comments that you should NOT upgrade with HGVC. I also agree that from Australia the Hawaiian Islands are a great place that is not to far for you to use your timeshare points. We travel there from NY annually which I believe is just as far as Australia. However, I don't agree that with 3500 points you have enough to get a sufficient vacation in Hawaii. A standard 1 BR platinum starts at 4800 points a week, and the Plus, Premier, and high end buildings run quite a bit higher. A standard 2 BR Gold starts 5000 and again run higher for Plus, Premier, and the high end buildings. To get what I would consider a nice 2 week annual vacation in Hawaii I would buy on resale at least 7000 more points.

 

[Tamaradarann]

Except that all timeshares are used. Even the "new" ones

YES, and while good condition late model used cars with low milage cost on a small amount less than a new one, a resale(used) timeshare is MUCH LESS than a developer sold(new) one and, ironically when you vacation and leave a timeshare unit where you used resale purchased points another guest could come in that afternoon using developer purchased points.

Cheers.

 

[brp]

...However, I don't agree that with 3500 points you have enough to get a sufficient vacation in Hawaii. ...o get what I would consider a nice 2 week annual vacation in Hawaii I would buy on resale at least 7000 more points.

All very subjective, of course, to what one considers a "sufficient" vacation. We would never stay anywhere for 2 weeks, so 2-3 nights are sufficient for us. Each person should look at their vacation habits and plan point allotment accordingly.

Cheers.

 

[dayooper]

I agree with the comments that you should NOT upgrade with HGVC. I also agree that from Australia the Hawaiian Islands are a great place that is not to far for you to use your timeshare points. We travel there from NY annually which I believe is just as far as Australia. However, I don't agree that with 3500 points you have enough to get a sufficient vacation in Hawaii. A standard 1 BR platinum starts at 4800 points a week, and the Plus, Premier, and high end buildings run quite a bit higher. A standard 2 BR Gold starts 5000 and again run higher for Plus, Premier, and the high end buildings. To get what I would consider a nice 2 week annual vacation in Hawaii I would buy on resale at least 7000 more points.

I was going off the assumption that the OP was stuck with the upgrade. 5000 points should be enough to explore using the system and see if they might want to upgrade via resale.

 

[frank808]

All very subjective, of course, to what one considers a "sufficient" vacation. We would never stay anywhere for 2 weeks, so 2-3 nights are sufficient for us. Each person should look at their vacation habits and plan point allotment accordingly.

Cheers.

I would not like to spend 14 hours flying to spend 2 or 3 nights on the east coast for a vacation. I wouldnt spend 6 hours in a plane flying to vegas for 3 nights.

Business yes, but for vacation no. If flights were an hour or less, 2 or 3 nights would be ok for a vacation.


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[brp]

I would not like to spend 14 hours flying to spend 2 or 3 nights on the east coast for a vacation. I wouldnt spend 6 hours in a plane flying to vegas for 3 nights.

Business yes, but for vacation no. If flights were an hour or less, 2 or 3 nights would be ok for a vacation.

Different strokes. We routinely fly from the west coast to Europe for 3-4 nights. If flying in First or Business (often via upgrade ), the trip (along with lounges) is part of the vacation and very pleasant. But, again, we all do things differently.

Cheers.

 

[Tamaradarann]

All very subjective, of course, to what one considers a "sufficient" vacation. We would never stay anywhere for 2 weeks, so 2-3 nights are sufficient for us. Each person should look at their vacation habits and plan point allotment accordingly.

Cheers.

I certainly agree with you that my comment about 2 weeks being a "sufficient vacation" was subjective. I thought most people felt that to make a 5000 mile trip worthwhile more than a 1 week vacation was necessary and since people usually think in terms of weeks of vacation I picked 2. Besides personal preference certain other factors are also at play: We are retired. When we worked shorter vacations were necessary for time off as well as budget considerations since we didn't have timeshares. We are retired so that we are on a 365 day a year vacation. For distances that are less than 8 hours of driving we don't fly. We find that flying is a pain in terms of cost, arrival time for departure, TSA, baggage claim(we pack heavy) rental car if required etc. With our timeshares we are able to vacation many weeks of the year. The cost of a 2 or 3 day flying vacation would not be in our budget since we can probably vacation for 2 weeks for the same cost as 2 or 3 days.

 

[brp]

I certainly agree with you that my comment about 2 weeks being a "sufficient vacation" was subjective. I thought most people felt that to make a 5000 mile trip worthwhile more than a 1 week vacation was necessary and since people usually think in terms of weeks of vacation I picked 2. Besides personal preference certain other factors are also at play: We are retired. When we worked shorter vacations were necessary for time off as well as budget considerations since we didn't have timeshares. We are retired so that we are on a 365 day a year vacation. For distances that are less than 8 hours of driving we don't fly. We find that flying is a pain in terms of cost, arrival time for departure, TSA, baggage claim(we pack heavy) rental car if required etc. With our timeshares we are able to vacation many weeks of the year. The cost of a 2 or 3 day flying vacation would not be in our budget since we can probably vacation for 2 weeks for the same cost as 2 or 3 days.

You are, to a large extent, who we hope to be not too long from now

We will certainly stay longer (and may pick up more cheap Vegas points) when retired. We will still want to fly as we need a certain number of miles to maintain our airline status (yeah, we will want to do that). At that time, 2 weeks would not be out of the question for Hawai'i.

I do think that most people think more like you do here. Sane ones anyway. I've been a member of Flyertalk for many years, and that's a different ilk. West coast to Europe just to turn around and come back to accumulate status miles at a good price os far from unheard of. That is something we wouldn't do

Cheers.