Timing for Points Deposit (was Credit Pool)

[OddYear]

I am an Odd Use Year owner (non-VIP) and just discovered the changes to the rules for Credit Pool. My last deposit to the pool was in late Dec 2016. The strategy for longest availability of pooled points used to be to deposit as late in the non-use year as possible to have the points available for almost the entirety of the 3 yrs that followed. I found out last week that that now, points cannot be deposited before the use year (and it's not called Credit Pool anymore but Points Deposit). I was thinking of depositing my 2019 Use Year points this week in order to be able to have them available for use through end of 2021 theoretically.

So, my question is, is there any advantage to depositing now versus the end of Jan (I think non-VIPs have one month to deposit)? What factors need to be considered when deciding when to make the points deposit? I don't plan to use my points for ARP bookings to I have no need to keep any points aside for that.

Thanks.

 

[tschwa2]

Once you deposit them into a future year, the are no longer available in the current year. If you deposit them to 2021, you can use them in 2021 only. You can borrow but only within 90 days of check in and normally borrowing would be from next use year. I am not sure how borrowing works with soy contracts.

 

[Braindead]

You have until March 31 to deposit your points into 2020 or 2021.
I see no advantage of depositing your points now verses late March unless you make all of your reservations within 90 days of checkin
I’m assuming you can borrow back your 2019 deposited points if you put them in the 2020 use year. I wouldn’t rely on what a VC tells you as this will be one of those deals that will be “the proofs in the pudding”.
Do you have a 2020 use year point bucket with 0 points ?? If you do your 2019 deposited points into 2020 are suppose to be available to borrow at 90 days for 2019 reservations.

The best you can do using the point deposit feature is to make points available for 2 years on reservations made 90 days or less

 

[paxsarah]

I agree with everything that's been said so far. You can use the points deposit feature through the third month of your use year, or 3/31. I think your options would be this:
Deposit to 2020 - would allow you to use your points for 2020 reservations up to 10 months out, and (probably) for 2019 reservations within 90 days.
Deposit to 2021 - would allow you to use your points for 2021 reservations up to 10 months out (and combined with your existing 2021 points, but not for ARP), (probably) for 2020 reservations within 90 days, and not at all for 2019 reservations (except 2019 reservations you might make prior to depositing the remaining points).

As Braindead mentioned, I'm not sure we know for sure if deposited points can be borrowed back into the current year. I'm also not completely sure if there are any differences in how borrowing points works for biennial contracts, but I'm guessing not. (I have two biennial contracts that make my odd years very points heavy and even years points light, but I've very rarely borrowed points so I don't know how the mechanics work on them or what happens when you have a completely bare even year.)

 

[uscav8r]

I am not sure how borrowing works with soy contracts.

Usually soy contracts can be bought and sold on the futures market. If you have a margin account, you can borrow to purchase said contracts.

In any case, I, too, have no idea how borrowing works for EOY contracts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[OddYear]

Thanks all.

It appears that the Points Deposit is not just a name change or a slight feature change from Credit Pool but a more rigid "feature improvement" in favor of Wyndham that takes away the flexibility that the Credit Pool used to offer to owners.

When I read the Points Deposit Info section on the MCW site earlier, it did not sink in that I must actually assign a year when I plan to use them. In the old Credit Pool, once the points were deposited, they were available for use *any time* till their expiry. AFAIR, in the non-Use year, credit pool points were available for booking in the standard booking window. So, e.g., the 2017 Use Year points that I deposited in the Credit Pool in Dec 2016 (with Dec 2019 expiry) were available for use any time in 2018 (plus 2017 and 2019)

My ability to book vacations and use points is uncertain and erratic, so it does not help to have to assign a Use Year to deposited points. I had to cancel a booking for 2018 due to circumstances beyond my control and ended up not using any points last year but they all went back into the pool and I was able to use them for a 2019 booking. If I were to assign some points to 2020 and have to cancel a booking made for 2020, or if I am unable to use them, they will go waste at the end of 2020. So I am wondering if it would be better to assign all available 2019 points for use in 2021 (I don't need any for 2019). If I understand the Points Deposit terms, that will limit me to the 90 day booking window if I need to book something for 2020.

@tschwa2,
Unpooled points could be borrowed in a non-Use Year from the next Use Year in the 90 day ERP window. I booked in Dec2016 for a Feb2017 trip using points in my Credit Pool (expiry Dec2017) + some points borrowed from 2017 Use Year, then deposited the remaining 2017 Use Year points in the Credit Pool (expiry Dec2019).

@Braindead,
I have no 2020 bucket. I have only one contract (it's always been Jan-Dec). My points buckets, which have not made much sense to me ever since Wyndham did some realignment of contracts and other numbers magic a couple of yrs back, show up as follows -

________________________________________________________________________
Available for Use Today

Current Use Years
Dec 30, 2016 - Dec 30, 2019 [1]
May 20, 2017 - Dec 30, 2019 [2]
Dec 31, 2018 - Dec 30, 2019 [3]
Jan 01, 2019 - Dec 31, 2019 [4]

Future Use Years
Jan 01, 2021 - Dec 31, 2021 [5]

[1] - shows 0 points and some HK credits that match unused HK credits that expired in Dec 2017 (not sure why they show up under "Available for Use Today"
[2] - shows remaining available points and HK credits from the Dec2016 pool deposit (what's the May 20 date for??)
[3] - shows 0 points and 0 HK credits (not sure what this is)
[4] - shows full 2019 2X quota that I plan to deposit by end of Mar2019 (X = my annual contract points + HK)
[5] - shows full 2021 2X quota that I'll probably deposit by end of Mar2021
________________________________________________________________________

Despite the confusion of how the points and HK credits show up in my account, when I try to reserve anything, the available points and HK credits has been correct thus far. So I've not tried to delve into the bucket mystery.

@paxsarah,
Yes. With the new scheme, unless I specifically assign points for a non-Use year (2020), I don't see any difference whether my 2019 points are deposited or not. I could always borrow from the next Use Year in the ERP window with or without points in the Credit Pool earlier.

I hope I can make the "right" decision by March end.

 

[Braindead]

Thanks all.

It appears that the Points Deposit is not just a name change or a slight feature change from Credit Pool but a more rigid "feature improvement" in favor of Wyndham that takes away the flexibility that the Credit Pool used to offer to owners.

When I read the Points Deposit Info section on the MCW site earlier, it did not sink in that I must actually assign a year when I plan to use them. In the old Credit Pool, once the points were deposited, they were available for use *any time* till their expiry. AFAIR, in the non-Use year, credit pool points were available for booking in the standard booking window. So, e.g., the 2017 Use Year points that I deposited in the Credit Pool in Dec 2016 (with Dec 2019 expiry) were available for use any time in 2018 (plus 2017 and 2019)

My ability to book vacations and use points is uncertain and erratic, so it does not help to have to assign a Use Year to deposited points. I had to cancel a booking for 2018 due to circumstances beyond my control and ended up not using any points last year but they all went back into the pool and I was able to use them for a 2019 booking. If I were to assign some points to 2020 and have to cancel a booking made for 2020, or if I am unable to use them, they will go waste at the end of 2020. So I am wondering if it would be better to assign all available 2019 points for use in 2021 (I don't need any for 2019). If I understand the Points Deposit terms, that will limit me to the 90 day booking window if I need to book something for 2020.

@tschwa2,
Unpooled points could be borrowed in a non-Use Year from the next Use Year in the 90 day ERP window. I booked in Dec2016 for a Feb2017 trip using points in my Credit Pool (expiry Dec2017) + some points borrowed from 2017 Use Year, then deposited the remaining 2017 Use Year points in the Credit Pool (expiry Dec2019).

@Braindead,
I have no 2020 bucket. I have only one contract (it's always been Jan-Dec). My points buckets, which have not made much sense to me ever since Wyndham did some realignment of contracts and other numbers magic a couple of yrs back, show up as follows -

________________________________________________________________________
Available for Use Today

Current Use Years
Dec 30, 2016 - Dec 30, 2019 [1]
May 20, 2017 - Dec 30, 2019 [2]
Dec 31, 2018 - Dec 30, 2019 [3]
Jan 01, 2019 - Dec 31, 2019 [4]

Future Use Years
Jan 01, 2021 - Dec 31, 2021 [5]

[1] - shows 0 points and some HK credits that match unused HK credits that expired in Dec 2017 (not sure why they show up under "Available for Use Today"
[2] - shows remaining available points and HK credits from the Dec2016 pool deposit (what's the May 20 date for??)
[3] - shows 0 points and 0 HK credits (not sure what this is)
[4] - shows full 2019 2X quota that I plan to deposit by end of Mar2019 (X = my annual contract points + HK)
[5] - shows full 2021 2X quota that I'll probably deposit by end of Mar2021
________________________________________________________________________

Despite the confusion of how the points and HK credits show up in my account, when I try to reserve anything, the available points and HK credits has been correct thus far. So I've not tried to delve into the bucket mystery.

@paxsarah,
Yes. With the new scheme, unless I specifically assign points for a non-Use year (2020), I don't see any difference whether my 2019 points are deposited or not. I could always borrow from the next Use Year in the ERP window with or without points in the Credit Pool earlier.

I hope I can make the "right" decision by March end.

No 2020 points bucket is very interesting. Let us know if you even have 2020 as an option when depositing your points.
You know what works best for you. But you might want to buy a small annual or even year contract if you don’t have 2020 as an option.
Point deposit feature does say you can deposit in your future use year & you don’t have 2020 as a use year in your account

 

[paxsarah]

No 2020 points bucket is very interesting. Let us know if you even have 2020 as an option when depositing your points.
You know what works best for you. But you might want to buy a small annual or even year contract if you don’t have 2020 as an option.
Point deposit feature does say you can deposit in your future use year & you don’t have 2020 as a use year in your account

Oh, this is really interesting and it would suck if exclusively biennial owners couldn't deposit into their empty year. Please keep us updated if you learn anything, @OddYear. Also, since the verbiage in the directory says "Points may be deposited into the next Use Year or 2 Use Years from now" that would seem to indicate if they intend to deny EOY owners from depositing in the immediately following off year, then they would need to make the following actual use year available to be deposited into. In OddYear's case, that would be 2023, and I'm pretty sure nobody has that bucket available yet.

 

[harveyhaddixfan]

I have a 168k odd contract. I made 1 reservation for a 2BR in Oct. That left me with 96k points and only 91 HK credits. It’s making me rent 5 HK credits @ $11.25 plus the $39 deposit fee for a total of $50.25. It gave me the option to deposit to 2020 or 2021. Seems pretty shady that they make you pay for HK now and then you lose it if you don’t use it.

 

[Braindead]

I have a 168k odd contract. I made 1 reservation for a 2BR in Oct. That left me with 96k points and only 91 HK credits. It’s making me rent 5 HK credits @ $11.25 plus the $39 deposit fee for a total of $50.25. It gave me the option to deposit to 2020 or 2021. Seems pretty shady that they make you pay for HK now and then you lose it if you don’t use it.

Is that the only contract you have?
Or do you have an annual or even year contract also?

 

[harveyhaddixfan]

Is that the only contract you have?
Or do you have an annual or even year contract also?

It’s the only contract I have.

 

[OddYear]

@Braindead, I won't be able to use any more points than what I already have, so another contract of any kind would not be helpful. Since I can't do a lot of advance vacation planning in my life, being limited to ERP bookings mostly works out for me, though it clearly restricts advance planning when one is in a position to make plans.

I do have the option to deposit points for use in 2020. The Future Use Year lists both year buckets to deposit my 2019 points into:
Jan 2020 - Dec 2020
Jan 2021 - Dec 2021

 

[Sandy VDH]

Credit pool gave you a three year window to book, by basically pushing out the expiration date by 3 years, and at the same time allowing you to book anything in any year PRIOR to those points expiring. Admittedly that was very generous, and when it wasn't widely used it was probably ok. But Wyndham deemed it too generous as more and more people used it. So they switched it to the Points Deposit Feature. So NOW all you can do is move it forward 1 or 2 years. You have to use it in the ONLY in the year you move it to.

So while not as generous, you can always keep rolling forward, for a fee. Since I am a VIP and have a Jan - Dec Use year, I have until Dec 31 to decide to roll it forward. So I just have a reminder set to deposit remaining points. Non VIPs have to decide in the 1st 3 months of your use year, so you want to roll or not.

 

[tschwa2]

Credit pool gave you a three year window to book, by basically pushing out the expiration date by 3 years, and at the same time allowing you to book anything in any year PRIOR to those points expiring. Admittedly that was very generous, and when it wasn't widely used it was probably ok. But Wyndham deemed it too generous as more and more people used it. So they switched it to the Points Deposit Feature. So NOW all you can do is move it forward 1 or 2 years. You have to use it in the ONLY in the year you move it to.

So while not as generous, you can always keep rolling forward, for a fee. Since I am a VIP and have a Jan - Dec Use year, I have until Dec 31 to decide to roll it forward. So I just have a reminder set to deposit remaining points. Non VIPs have to decide in the 1st 3 months of your use year, so you want to roll or not.

You really can't keep extending (rolling forward) the same points. You can only extend up to your annual allotment each year.
If you get 105,000 points per year and decide instead of using in 2019 and 2020 you want to use 3 years worth of points to book in 2021 but then something comes up and you can't travel you can only deposit 105,000 of those 315,000 into 2022 or 2023.
Also if you can't travel at all this year but think you can next year so you deposit into 2020 but you still can't travel in 2020 then you still only be eligible to move up to your 2020 regular allotment into a future year.

Since most people use at least some of their points most years as long as you use up the points you moved you can keep moving the new points forward.

 

[paxsarah]

This kind of rolling-but-not-really would not work for a purely biennial owner like the OP. If OddYear were to deposit into the following even year, that’s it - they have to use them all in that year, because they don’t have any even year points to deposit into the following year. There’s no buffer for them at all.

 

[Cyrus24]

This kind of rolling-but-not-really would not work for a purely biennial owner like the OP. If OddYear were to deposit into the following even year, that’s it - they have to use them all in that year, because they don’t have any even year points to deposit into the following year. There’s no buffer for them at all.

And, it gets worse as those rolled 2019 points take none of the current use year benefits with them into that even year. No second deposit option, No ARP, no depositing to RCI, etc.

I hate the points deposit 'feature' but accept that it's all we have at this point. I still believe that they could have addressed the stripping of contracts problem by structuring the Credit Pool, differently. Like, you can pool your 2019 points at any point, but, the first use date for those pooled points would still be on 1/1/19. Please allow me the privilege of dreaming about a better solution.

 

[Sandy VDH]

I wasn't suggesting that a continuous roll over was available, but each year you can roll forward that years allotment.

If I have 500K in 2019 that I move forward to 2020. So then in 2020 I have both my 500K deposited points from 2019 which I can use to book, but that also leaves me with my 500K 2020 points. Now those 2020 points I can choose to move forward.

Points were always meant to be used in a year. Having any ability to roll is a bonus. All other points systems allow a 1 year roll, having 3 was very generous as compared to most other system out there. I am disappointed they took this option away because I could pool them but still use them and for 3 years. There is NO downside to that for me. But HGVC HICV which are both point systems I know well, at best you get 1 year ahead. HICV does have the edge there as you get 1 year rollover for free.

 

[OddYear]

@harveyhaddixfan,
I found that the "currency" for rental and refund from Wyndham is not the same. The last time I was forced to rent HK credits due to a split reservation, I paid $2.25/HK credit. I was able to move my reservation to a single unit at the time of the stay and have the HK credits refunded later. However, the refund was not in cash, but in HK credits which then expired at the end of the year.
I thought it would've been fair if the currency of rental and refund remained the same or they refunded the HK credits for future use (like one receives store credit some times on returned merchandise) without immediate expiry.

@Sandy VDH
When deposited in Credit Pool, the expiration date of my Use Year points was pushed out by 2 yrs, not 3 (2015 Use Year points expired in Dec2017, not Dec2018). From what I see now, I can still push out the expiry of my 2019 points by 2 yrs to Dec2021 as I could've done with the Credit Pool. But as you noted, the flexibility to use those points any time during those 2 yrs has been taken away. Now I have to specifically designate some/all of the 2019 points to 2020 and if unused, they will expire at the end of 2020 and cannot be rolled forward further. I've set multiple reminders for March to deposit my 2019 points. Forgetting to deposit would be disastrous as I don't need any points for 2019 use. I'll deposit them earlier and not wait for the deadline if I come to a decision about which Use Year(s) to designate the deposits to.

 

[Sandy VDH]

@OddYear
I do agree this NEW method is more of a pain for some owners than others. But since I am a VIP Platinum member (purchased a backdoor way which was allowed, but now no longer permitted), I get to the end of my use to figure out what points I have used, and what I have left. So I don't need to guess what my usage might be, I will KNOW. And because I have unlimited HK units, I don't worry about that either.

I still think, in general, the previous credit pool policy was very generous, and I am not surprised it was revised as many more owners discovered it and routinely used it. I never had a wasted point in 20 years of ownership with the credit pool in place.

I think everyone needs to set reminders, that is why there are deadlines. I set up reminders for booking, for cancelling for all kinds of things related to timesharing.

 

[paxsarah]

The last time I was forced to rent HK credits due to a split reservation, I paid $2.25/HK credit. I was able to move my reservation to a single unit at the time of the stay and have the HK credits refunded later. However, the refund was not in cash, but in HK credits which then expired at the end of the year.

I was going to say that one of the benefits of the new system is that refunds come back to you the way you paid for them, but I'm actually not sure if this is the case for post-stay refunds of HK credits when you stay in the same unit. It is true for situations where you have to rent points or pay for HK to make a reservation, then later cancel that reservation - they will now come back to your payment method instead of as points/credits. And because of the new nightly reservation structure, there are no reservations that are in the system as split - though there are instances where owners may piece together multiple reservations because of changing availability, etc. So fortunately, this is less likely to be an issue going forward.

 

[Braindead]

I still make split reservations if we haven’t paid for airfare since we’re not tied to work or school schedules.
We find the cheapest days to fly then cancel a reservation at the start or end of our trip if it’s not needed

 

[capital city]

You have to try and see the good sometimes. I was upset when they took away credit pool but I think the way they are doing buckets now with the points deposit will possibly work better for me. I usually book several months in advance. If I havent used my points by the end of March then I roll them forward. The thing is they kind of do keep arp because if you make a arp reservation for the next year the system says lets use these deposited points first but they also have this much available for arp so it works both ways in our favor. Not saying you can stack with arp or get more points available for arp then you would have normally. If done right you should never have points expire and still keep arp privileges.

Downside with this is once you deposit those points you will not be able to book short notice trips for the next several months.

 

[uscav8r]

Downside with this is once you deposit those points you will not be able to book short notice trips for the next several months.

Actually you borrow back to make any ERP booking as soon as you deposit to a future year. I’ve done this myself. That way, if I end up cancelling the ERP booking, the points will go back to the future bin.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[paxsarah]

Actually you borrow back to make any ERP booking as soon as you deposit to a future year. I’ve done this myself. That way, if I end up cancelling the ERP booking, the points will go back to the future bin.

Unless you are solely biennial and deposit to the second farthest year out. Then you wouldn't have anything in the next year and couldn't borrow until 1/1 of next year.

 

[OddYear]

@Sandy VDH,
I am OK with owners in different tiers get different perks. However, if a feature exists for use and is advertised as a perk for all, nobody should be penalised if more people use it. A restaurant that offers all-you-can-eat buffets must think of the sustainability of their business model if the bulk of the customers manage to chomp down boatloads of food. If the system is being abused, the flaw should be fixed. Most of the time, I observe that it's not the small players who (can) abuse the setup as there is not much to play with.

@paxsarah,
Good to know that split reservations are gone and refunds are now made in cash if payment is made in cash. When I've had to cancel bookings, the cancelled points and HK credits did go to where they came from, such as the Credit Pool with the original expiry. However, when forced to purchase HK credits (or points) to cover a booking which is later cancelled or refunded, it was a loss if the points and HK in the pool were set to expire that year. In my case, I had enough points and HK in the pool to cover my stay except for the extra HK reqd due to the split reservation.