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Thoughts on owning a trader v. staying put?

Big Matt

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I think you are seeing two very different camps. The buy where you want to go every year and the trade everything camp. I'm in the latter. I have three and never once have occupied my unit. I've never even seen one of them at all. The key is to buy into a system like Marriott, Hilton, VRI, etc. All of them have some sort of advantage when exchanging into their own system. I would buy a lock off if you can. I agree with the other poster who recommended Grande Vista. Get a 2BR lock off. The platinum season studios trade like 2BRs in all but the highest seasons. Given that you want to travel on the east coast (same as me), you can get Hilton Head, Myrtle Beach, Williamsburg, Florida, Poconos, and Maine easily. Spend less than $5,000 and get a maintenance fee that's reasonable. You get what you pay for. Finally, I wouldn't buy into a property that is in the hurricane belt. No reason to have your timeshare destroyed or have a huge special assessment. If you are getting into Interval International, and you can travel in the off/shoulder seasons you will be able to buy up to 10 getaways for anywhere between $250-750 per week. Less if you buy into their platinum membership tier.
 

Dean

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But, how is converting to points buying where you want to own? Unless you consider points as everywhere.
TT can speak for themselves but for me I feel the absolute most options within Marriott are a combination of owning weeks to use (enrolled or not), a points option and a true good trading week(s). But this approach requires a certain amount of volume and commitment to be effective and there is some attention/effort involved. We own HH for a family trip most years, we have enrolled weeks (some not) with a few trust points and I own a couple of trading weeks. It has worked exceedingly well for us.

Here is an example. This past year we went to HI for 3 weeks/3 islands with 15 people for the second 2 weeks. We ended up with a 1 BR Maui exchange while just the 2 of us; a 2BR, two 1BR and a studio at Ko Olina all on exchange and three 2BRs at Waiohai two on exchange, one on points. We started with DC points reservations to cover that volume for all 3 locations plus 2BR we own at Ko Olina so our trip was set and we could plan accordingly. By trading and retrading we were able to take points on the week owned and the only points reservation week had in the end was the one 2BR for Kauai. We did get a studio initially for Maui but retraded to a 1 BR. All trades were secured with Willow Ridge best weeks deposits except one of the Waiohai we got using a Legend's Edge platinum week Deposit and the studio for Ko Olina using a non Marriott later in the course.

As with Big Matt, it's all about options, planning, flexibility and value for us. We know we want to go to HH most years with 40-50 people. I can't realistically do that with points alone during the time we want to go so we own a number of weeks there and supplement with points when needed. We're planners so I have points options and exchange options where we reserve early and request early for exchanges. We're empty nesters so we can travel for many trips with a fair amount of flexibility. Plus we can afford the commitment.

That's why everyone has to take their personal situation into account and structure accordingly. The good news is that for someone researching to buy new, they have the opportunity to make the best decision possible but it also means they don't have some of the opportunities buying in that some of us had like enrolling for free/cheap or buying trust points at a lower price.
 

Superchief

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Prior to the DC point program, we bought in locations and seasons that we planned to primarily use, and tried to get lockoffs. Most of these (including Royal Palms) turned out to be good traders. This worked out well for us for several years. The introduction of the points program came at a good time for us because our travel needs changed and flexibility became more important. The only downside was that several of our MVC weeks were assigned poor point values (MCV Gold, RP Platinum, Oceana Palms Gold) with cost over .60 per point. I would never have purchased those weeks/seasons had I known their future point values. This should be another consideration for those planning to buy/enroll MVC weeks.
 

Lydlady

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We also have never stayed at our home resort. We have a Marriott lock-off and can travel off-season so trading into other locations works for us. I have to admit that after staying at the Four Seasons Scottsdale this year, we wouldn't mind going back there every year.
 

bazzap

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Owning enrolled weeks in resorts / locations we enjoy visiting, we have
- all the benefits of “home” resort weeks
- all the benefits of 2 for 1 lock off usage and exchange through Interval
- all the flexibility and benefits of the the points programme.
Where we were able to buy those weeks resale, before the enrolment cutoff date, they were really good value too (if only all of our weeks could have been)
 

TravelTime

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But, how is converting to points buying where you want to own? Unless you consider points as everywhere.

It is very easy to trade into where you want to go with MVC DC points. I prefer points over a trader. A trader is cheaper though.
 

Steve Fatula

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It is very easy to trade into where you want to go with MVC DC points. I prefer points over a trader. A trader is cheaper though.

I do not understand, in what state and city is DC points? Doesn't trading in any form mean by definition mean the opposite?

I certainly also prefer points more than traders. But, I don't consoder them as buying where I want to own.
 

Dean

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It is very easy to trade into where you want to go with MVC DC points. I prefer points over a trader. A trader is cheaper though.
Some options are easy with planning, some are not. If you're day one 13 and 12 months out right at 9 am most option are easy but not all. Volume is a problem because you can only do one at a time and often they go very fast for some options. But the reality is that the items easy to trade into with DC points are often easy to fairly easy to trade in through II as well. The flexibility is obviously different and one comes with somewhat more control than the other. But there are some options where buying where you want to own would still be important and DC points would not cover well or at all.
 

TravelTime

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Some options are easy with planning, some are not. If you're day one 13 and 12 months out right at 9 am most option are easy but not all. Volume is a problem because you can only do one at a time and often they go very fast for some options. But the reality is that the items easy to trade into with DC points are often easy to fairly easy to trade in through II as well. The flexibility is obviously different and one comes with somewhat more control than the other. But there are some options where buying where you want to own would still be important and DC points would not cover well or at all.

Not really true. It is hard to exchange into Maui oceanfront through II. It is super expensive to own. It is much more cost effective to be a DC points owner esp if you will not go there annually or want to exchange into less than 7 days.

I have been trying to get a week at Marriott Marbella for April and it has been impossible. I am able to reserve it with DC points though.

If you want to stay at the Ritz Carlton Residence Clubs, you either need to spend a fortune to own or exchange via DC points.
 
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TravelTime

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I do not understand, in what state and city is DC points? Doesn't trading in any form mean by definition mean the opposite?

I certainly also prefer points more than traders. But, I don't consoder them as buying where I want to own.

I do consider it as buying where I want to go since as a DC points owner, I can easily book wherever I want, anytime.
 

jme

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It is very easy to trade into where you want to go with MVC DC points. I prefer points over a trader. A trader is cheaper though.


I'll say traders of 2 units of a lockoff week can expect at least to get TWO FULL WEEKS that "would have cost"
(on average) 3000 DC points each, meaning a total of 6000 points needed to get the equivalent of two lockoff weeks.
[ALL of my trades over the past 5 years using 2 lockoff units got weeks worth more than that, weeks with costs
of 3100 pts to 3300 pts, even with the studio (using EPlus w upgrade), but I'm being conservative & speculating
on what others could expect "at least". I've continued to get great trades, & never failed to get what I've wanted.]

Choice 1: So what would 6000 DC points cost now? $75,000+ plus a $3,150 maintenance fee?
(Correct me if that's high. I know varying incentives can bring it down a bit, but still....it's outrageous.
It's far more than the old Platinum Plus weeks, and 6000 DC points would only get you ONE single week of those.)

Choice 2: And a good lockoff trader would have an upfront cost of $1800+(2BR) - $7000+(3BR)
with MF of about $1400(2BR) to $1800(3BR).
Mine was $1800 to purchase for a 2BR Platinum, with a maintenance fee of $1400(2BR).
For other trader options I'm thinking the usual suspects: Grand Chateau(2 or 3BR), Grande Vista(2 or 3BR),
Manor Club, Desert Springs...and remember, locking off for 2 weeks splits the MF in half for each of those 2 weeks.

Comparing the two choices? Big difference.

To say a Trader is cheaper than buying DC Points ("enough" DC points for equivalent stays)
is like saying the moon is smaller than the earth.

Uhhhhhh, yeah!........I would surely concur that a trader is cheaper..... and how.
 
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TravelTime

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I'll say traders of 2 units of a lockoff week can expect at least to get TWO FULL WEEKS that "would have cost"
(on average) 3000 DC points each, meaning a total of 6000 points needed to get the equivalent of two lockoff weeks.
[ALL of my trades over the past 5 years using 2 lockoff units got weeks worth more than that, weeks with costs
of 3100 pts to 3300 pts, even with the studio (using EPlus w upgrade), but I'm being conservative & speculating
on what others could expect "at least". I've continued to get great trades, & never failed to get what I've wanted.]

Choice 1: So what would 6000 DC points cost now? $75,000+ plus a $3,150 maintenance fee? (Correct me if that's high.)

Choice 2: And a good lockoff trader would have an upfront cost of $1800+(2BR) - $7000+(3BR)
with MF of about $1400(2BR) to $1800(3BR).
Mine was $1800 to purchase for a 2BR Platinum, with a maintenance fee of $1400(2BR).
For other trader options I'm thinking the usual suspects: Grand Chateau(2 or 3BR), Grande Vista(2 or 3BR),
Manor Club, Desert Springs...and remember, locking off for 2 weeks splits the MF in half for each of those 2 weeks.

Comparing the two choices? Big difference.

To say a Trader is cheaper than buying DC Points ("enough" DC points for equivalent stays)
is like saying the moon is smaller than the earth.

Uhhhhhh, yeah!........I would surely concur that a trader is cheaper..... and how.

You are using the retail price of points to compare. However you are correct that it is always cheaper to buy a trader and get lucky with what you get. If you are willing to wait for an exchange and have flexibility in where and when you travel, a trader is a much better deal. Also, if you do not care about views, then a trader is a better choice.

I can use my weeks as traders, and I might do so sometimes. My concern with traders is the developers may eventually make it harder to get a decent exchange, as they should.
 
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TravelTime

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BTW, I paid $61,500 (Including activation fees) for the equivalent of 11,700 points per year. It got me to Presidential. Retail would be approx $150,000 and possibly more.
 

Dean

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Not really true. It is hard to exchange into Maui oceanfront through II. It is super expensive to own. It is much more cost effective to be a DC points owner esp if you will not go there annually or want to exchange into less than 7 days.

I have been trying to get a week at Marriott Marbella for April and it has been impossible. I am able to reserve it with DC points though.

If you want to stay at the Ritz Carlton Residence Clubs, you either need to spend a fortune to own or exchange via DC points.
The points have flexibility and can get you into most things most of the time if you plan far enough out. As I noted, it does give a certain amount of control including view type and knowledge if one has the reservation at 12 or 13 months out for planning. One has no control over view type for exchanges with very limited exceptions. Maui is a little unique (as is HI in general) as it's high demand but a fair % of owners don't go every year. I've traded to Maui 3 times both using II and DC points, to be honest, DC points was more difficult than the II exchanges. But the point was simply that points don't give you a guarantee and for that matter, neither does a floating week though there are options where one can come close to a guarantee with sufficient volume. Could I have reserved the 10 weeks I have for Grande Ocean this summer on points, no I could not have. I was barely able to get 3 and even then it was a different start date than I preferred. Fortunately I was able to pick up the single night and drop a night from the 3 points reservations to create the right combination. Now I have to hope we don't have to change rooms after the first night on those 3 but given they are all the same view type and all points so the odds are much in our favor. There were NO options for OF at 13 or 12 months out and none since. We'll request the units be in the Dolphin Building and as high a floor as possible. 7 are owned weeks so we'll likely be in that building and floor 3-5. For the 3 points reservations they have the priority as an exchange rather than an owner over though we're Chairman's club, Titanium and own weeks there so if they're in the same building they'll likely be on floor 1, 2 if we're lucky.

I guess I'm not really sure where you are disagreeing. Points give options and have negatives and do not come with any real guarantees, they are just different and neither perfect. As for your exchange request, you do not provide enough information to make a judgement on it's validity. High trade power deposit done 10-12 months out? Exchange request for like size unit put in 12-13 months or more out? I use all 3 options (own, points & exchange) and they each add something to my options as I illustrated above. But yes I've exchanged to Maui OF in a 1 BR using a Branson studio and an Aruba OF X 2 using a Branson studio.
 

GRCTahoe

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Originally I was not a fan of time shares. We owned a 2nd home but that became a lot of work. Then we purchased our first Marriott a quarter share, and loved it so much we purchased 2 more, because we went so often ( our perfect combo at the time) And in January we bought into the Destinations Point (DP) program. If this has taught me anything, life needs are ever changing. I believe our evolution has broght us the best lifetime fit because of flexibility to changing needs. With DP we can go for a weekend or a month, a romantic getaway for 2, or big family getaway. And because of our quarter share we were able to convert a massive amount of points, giving us the best perks and priority as chairmain club, and with so many points we can afford to rent some, giving us pretty much free vacations. Love it.
 

jme

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You are using the retail price of points to compare. However you are correct that it is always cheaper to buy a trader and get lucky with what you get. If you are willing to wait for an exchange and have flexibility in where and when you travel, a trader is a much better deal. Also, if you do not care about views, then a trader is a better choice.

I can use my weeks as traders, and I might do so sometimes. My concern with traders is the developers may eventually make it harder to get a decent exchange, as they should.

I understand your reasons.

I definitely figured anyone could do better on the purchase price of points depending on various factors,
that's why I added "Correct me if that's high" when I stated the retail price. There are many ways to do it, but none that are "cheap".
Your $61,000 is still significant, though.....so what if it would have cost $150,000?
Given the $61,000 plus maintenance fees, I wouldn't do it.
(But that's just me, knowing we have 18,000 DC points available annually because of enrolled weeks.)

My history of trades, including current trades involving upcoming stays, has been phenomenal, and my requests have been very specific
for dates and resorts....99% ONE check-in date and ONE resort. Only once did I do an Ongoing Search for a Summer Grande Ocean week, and an August week came up, which was great because we had already been there 4 other weeks in June. We seldom if ever have the absolute flexibility of requesting any week or multiple resorts, so that's why I deem our history of trades as extraordinary.
It's been that way for many years, and continues unabated, so I wouldn't consider it "lucky" at all.
There are many who will continue to deposit, and my platinum trader has plenty of pull, plus I book a great week to deposit,
so I'm counting on known factors and not so much a roll of the dice.

We did quite well with our purchases (resorts and seasons), and were in the right place at the right time for enrolling
for a very low fee, so I'd have to say THOSE two factors were fortunate.
Most owners didn't share that experience as to timing, so it does make a difference.
Your options to achieve what you want out of this system required a different plan,
so I do understand your approach.

I know buyers could still do well with resales for occupying, and resales for "traders", however.
And just think: $61,000 could buy a ton of great resale weeks, and then use half of the weeks to rent out
and subsidize the maintenance fees, rendering lots of free stays.
 

GRCTahoe

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BTW, I paid $61,500 (Including activation fees) for the equivalent of 11,700 points per year. It got me to Presidential. Retail would be approx $150,000 and possibly more.
Pretty cool package at 5.55 per point. How much are your MF per point. I have 39k points @ 2.64 pp with MF of .30 cents. I have also created a similar package for 1 lucky buyer on an extra quarter share I don't need now that I have DP. It is posted for 127k at 3.27 pp and 30 cent MF.
 

TheTimeTraveler

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Originally I was not a fan of time shares. We owned a 2nd home but that became a lot of work. Then we purchased our first Marriott a quarter share, and loved it so much we purchased 2 more, because we went so often ( our perfect combo at the time) And in January we bought into the Destinations Point (DP) program. If this has taught me anything, life needs are ever changing. I believe our evolution has broght us the best lifetime fit because of flexibility to changing needs. With DP we can go for a weekend or a month, a romantic getaway for 2, or big family getaway. And because of our quarter share we were able to convert a massive amount of points, giving us the best perks and priority as chairmain club, and with so many points we can afford to rent some, giving us pretty much free vacations. Love it.



I wouldn't really say free vacations; those 3 quarter shares carry some hefty maintenance fees.......






.
 

csalter2

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I'll say traders of 2 units of a lockoff week can expect at least to get TWO FULL WEEKS that "would have cost"
(on average) 3000 DC points each, meaning a total of 6000 points needed to get the equivalent of two lockoff weeks.
[ALL of my trades over the past 5 years using 2 lockoff units got weeks worth more than that, weeks with costs
of 3100 pts to 3300 pts, even with the studio (using EPlus w upgrade), but I'm being conservative & speculating
on what others could expect "at least". I've continued to get great trades, & never failed to get what I've wanted.]

Choice 1: So what would 6000 DC points cost now? $75,000+ plus a $3,150 maintenance fee?
(Correct me if that's high. I know varying incentives can bring it down a bit, but still....it's outrageous.
It's far more than the old Platinum Plus weeks, and 6000 DC points would only get you ONE single week of those.)

Choice 2: And a good lockoff trader would have an upfront cost of $1800+(2BR) - $7000+(3BR)
with MF of about $1400(2BR) to $1800(3BR).
Mine was $1800 to purchase for a 2BR Platinum, with a maintenance fee of $1400(2BR).
For other trader options I'm thinking the usual suspects: Grand Chateau(2 or 3BR), Grande Vista(2 or 3BR),
Manor Club, Desert Springs...and remember, locking off for 2 weeks splits the MF in half for each of those 2 weeks.

Comparing the two choices? Big difference.

To say a Trader is cheaper than buying DC Points ("enough" DC points for equivalent stays)
is like saying the moon is smaller than the earth.

Uhhhhhh, yeah!........I would surely concur that a trader is cheaper..... and how.

Well, points also allow you to use Destination Escapes that a lockoff unit doesn’t. 6000 DC points can get you more than 4 1/2 weeks in a 2 bedroom, and 7 weeks in a one bedroom and 3 1/2 weeks in a 3 bedroom. Your lockoff unit won’t do that for you. If you have flexibility, you can take advantage of the program at a different level with points. Also with the bonus discounts at Presidential and Chaiman’s level, you are also able to get more mileage out of your points. This CANNOT be understated.

I state this as a 3 week enrolled lockoff owner. There are definitely times when I will use my owner advantage at the resorts I own, but I specifically paid for the flexibility of being able to elect points. I bought the weeks specifically to save on maintenance fees.
 

silentg

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We have 5 timeshare weeks at 5 different places. One of our timeshares we have only used for trades.
Cheap maintenance and gets 16 TPU. We bought a 1 bedroom at a resort that we intend to stay at each year. Belong to HIVC week at OL use it to get hotel stays thru IHG. Have a beautiful week in Ireland that we have exchanged with TUG members and have stayed there also. Another is in South Florida and we may be giving it away. We had one on Cape Cod that we gave away too.
The Original timeshare we had since 1981 had a 30 year RTU and at the end, we let it go back to the resort.
The same we did for Dikhololo Africa, sent back the deed and thanked them.
Working on making some RCI exchanges too, before our membership expires.
We started with buy where you want to stay, then we bought where we got the most value and have become more flexible with our schedule, almost retired!
Silentg
 

Wahoo

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In my opinion, there is not a one-size-fits-all answer to the OP's question. For those who desire a great deal and have flexibility to accommodate trades, a trader week seems like a great low-cost avenue to great vacation options. If money was no object, a points purchase provides access to the whole system and the convenience of not being tied to 7-day trips and set locations.

For me personally, I have chosen to buy resale weeks in platinum season at resorts that I do enjoy going to, but which also rent out at a premium for those years when I wish to travel somewhere else instead. Those years when I do use my weeks, I feel they are a great value for the maintenance fees I pay. When I choose not to use my weeks, I rent them out (they fetch between $3,000 and $5,000 each depending on the resort and date reserved) -- I can then use that profit to pay for my vacations elsewhere. I could easily use the proceeds to rent at an alternate Marriott resort off Redweek, which to me seems simpler than playing the II exchange game, but that's just my personal preference. There is obviously some effort involved in reserving, advertising, and renting out the weeks, and I'm sure this route is not for everyone, but I don't mind (I actually kind of enjoy it) and the time I spend is only a couple hours per week rented.

My current portfolio of 5 weeks is not enrolled (I purchased all in the past 2 years, post-2010), but if enrolled would convert to 23,100 points. My all-in purchase expense for those 5 weeks was less than $50,000, which for me is a whole lot more palatable than the $323,400 retail price (assuming $14/point) had I purchased the equivalent package in points.
 

jme

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Well, points also allow you to use Destination Escapes that a lockoff unit doesn’t. 6000 DC points can get you more than 4 1/2 weeks in a 2 bedroom, and 7 weeks in a one bedroom and 3 1/2 weeks in a 3 bedroom. Your lockoff unit won’t do that for you. If you have flexibility, you can take advantage of the program at a different level with points. Also with the bonus discounts at Presidential and Chaiman’s level, you are also able to get more mileage out of your points. This CANNOT be understated. I state this as a 3 week enrolled lockoff owner. There are definitely times when I will use my owner advantage at the resorts I own, but I specifically paid for the flexibility of being able to elect points. I bought the weeks specifically to save on maintenance fees.

Somebody like the OP looking to buy one week plus a trader week has little aspirations and initially zero opportunity to reach
Presidential or Chairman level, per their stated entry level dilemma.
I am Chairman level and know well of the bonus discounts, etc., but was addressing the OP.
(Plus the OP is not interested in purchasing 6000 points.)

As for me personally with my lockoff, getting 4.5 weeks in 2BR from 6000 points, of course it's possible,
but that would mean severe off-season weeks, same for 7 weeks in 1BR, etc., etc. I personally have no interest in doing that......
I bought for best season, best resorts, and we don't "settle" to just maximize the number of trips.

And as a professional (I'm a dentist in private practice) my schedule is not so flexible. I could easily make it very flexible,
but it is not how things are done. We stay booked well in advance.

Our lockoff trades get high season at high resorts, no compromises. Quality time means more than
quantity here, both for me and for my family, and that is what we've been enjoying for 20 years.

Lastly I use my single lockoff week (our 10th Marriott timeshare week) for specific "extra" needs, totally in addition
to our fantastic portfolio which we primarily use for our family vacations, etc. The lockoff accomplishes extra "in-between" trips,
like October getaways at Custom House for my wife and me, gifts to my children for trips with their families and/or friends,
gifts to friends to whom I like to return favors, or gifts to my office staff, just because. Cheaper than giving them full weeks outright,
or using DC points which are too expensive to give away, imho.

Having 16 timeshare weeks in all, the lockoff is simply a play-toy. But I have gained superb value from it which has
benefitted me and others.
In this thread I am extolling its use as a cheap way for an entry-level buyer to gain extra value, too, and encouraging them
as to what they can still get with trades, rather than saying they are worthless as many do, which is far from the truth.
 
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csalter2

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Somebody like the OP looking to buy one week plus a trader week has little aspirations and initially zero opportunity to reach
Presidential or Chairman level, per their entry level dilemma.
I am Chairman level and know well of the bonus discounts, etc., but was addressing the OP.
(Plus the OP is not interested in purchasing 6000 points.)

As for getting 4.5 weeks in 2BR from 6000 points, of course it's possible, but that would mean severe off-season weeks,
same for 7 weeks in 1BR, etc., etc. I personally have no interest in doing that......I bought for best season, best resorts,
and we don't "settle" to just maximize the number of trips.

And as a professional (I'm a dentist in private practice)
my schedule is not so flexible. I could easily make it very flexible, but it is not how things are done.
We stay booked well in advance.

Our lockoff trades get high season at high resorts, no compromises.
Quality time means more than quantity here, both for me and for my family, and that is what we've been enjoying for 20 years.

Lastly I use my single lockoff week (our 10th Marriott timeshare week) for specific "extra" needs, totally in addition
to our fantastic portfolio which we primarily use for our family vacations, etc. The lockoff accomplishes extra "in-between" trips,
like October getaways at Custom House for my wife and me, gifts to my children for trips with their families and/or friends,
gifts to friends to whom I like to return favors, or gifts to my office staff, just because. Cheaper than giving them full weeks outright,
or using DC points which are too expensive to give away, imho.

Having 16 timeshare weeks in all, the lockoff is simply a play-toy.
In this thread I am extolling its use as a cheap way for an entry-level buyer to gain extra value, and encouraging them
as to what they can still get with trades, rather than saying they are worthless as many do, which is far from the truth.


Palm Desert in January or February is not off season, and I know quite a few New Yorkers and Canadians who would cherish Grand Vista in winter. I’ve been looking and it’s not always the worse season especially when you’re retired, own your own business and can work remotely, or just want to get up and go. As you know, it all depends on how people choose to vacation and take advantage of the program.
 
Last edited:

jme

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Palm Desert in January or February is not off season, and I know quite a few New Yorkers and Canadians who would cherish Grande Vista in winter. I’ve been looking and it’s not always the worse season especially when you’re retired, own your own business and can work remotely, or just want to get up and go. As you know, it all depends on how people choose to vacation and take advantage of the program.

True,
but not relevant for OP as he/she doesn't want the expense of points at this time.
 

GRCTahoe

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I wouldn't really say free vacations; those 3 quarter shares carry some hefty maintenance fees.......






.
With so many points I have the option to rent enough points to cover all my MF, and have enough points left over for FREE vacations. My MF are only .30 cents pp.
 
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