The SaveKBV.org Website

[ecwinch]

Jeff,

I am a pragmatist, not an idealist. I can only go by the facts that are in front of me, and not your idealist vision of the future - one that fails to address the main problem facing KBV - defaulting owners.

As I said previously - I really dont care who has the mgt contract or control of the BOD. What I do care about is having a viable plan for addressing defaulting owners - one that does not exacerbate the problem by upgrading the resort thru a special assessment. Particularly if the end game is to make it more appealing to renters.

Because I do believe it is folly to see rentals as salvation you seem to believe it is. As other BoD members/candidates have pointed out, rental income will evaporate during hard times - creating a bigger problem for a shrinking pool of dues paying owners.

Which comes to the crux of the real problem - how does the HOA divest itself of the growing inventory of defaulting intervals? Particularly if we are eliminating a bulk sale as an option?

For me, and I am sure for other owners, this discussion is about the best path moving forward. And not marginalizing opinions you dont agree with by suggesting they are "in bed with them". Perhaps the dialog would be productive, if you spent half as many words to just address the points I surface rather than attacking the author.

And Jeff - 97 people out of 100 people can be wrong. At one point in time 97 people out of 100 believed that the sun rotated around the earth.

 

[jacknsara]

. . . . For me, and I am sure for other owners, this discussion is about the best path moving forward. And not marginalizing opinions you dont agree with by suggesting they are "in bed with them". Perhaps the dialog would be productive, if you spent half as many words to just address the points I surface rather than attacking the author. . . . .

Aloha

Although not a candidate this year, I did send a campaign season email to owners a couple of weeks ago. It included the following:

. . . Our board and resort management has been meeting monthly as an Ownership Transition Committee of which I am chairperson. There is much left to do. I highlight two particular developments in addition to establishment of the Public Square:

• We have acquired a wealth of information useful for BOD planning and decision making from the approximately 10% of individual owners who participated in the December 2018 survey
• An excel based stock and flow sensitivity analysis model has been calibrated based on survey and other data to enable the BOD to better assess the long range effects of various strategic alternatives

Among other reasons, the Public Square was established for the use of the large number of owners who indicated willingness in the September 2018 survey to serve on committees using virtual tools. I invite all owners with that interest to initiate and/or participate in threads in the Public Square about which committees should be formed and how they should function.

We all share the benefits and responsibilities of ownership at KBV. Nothing about the future is certain. As I suggested in my 2018 campaign statement and now firmly believe, the best strategic option(s) for maintaining independence and long term financial stability will require changes to our governance documents. We will need much higher demonstrated voting rates to authorize such changes. Please vote. . . .​

Jeff, you have clearly stated your views about Wyndham. I don’t see the point in responding to logical reservations that others have with your position by just loudly repeating the same story over and over. I acknowledge that you are an established opinion leader for perhaps a couple of hundred KBV owners. Why not focus on positive actions that might contribute to the future you prefer? Do you have thoughts on which owner populated committees might be most useful? Do you have thoughts on how to get more owners engaged? For the owners on your yahoo list who also read this forum, can you explain why you resist some of the easiest small steps such as I suggested 4/17/19 in your yahoo group (to use https://www.tugbbs.com/forums/index...ests-currently-staying-on-site-at-kbv.281303/ )

Mahalo,

Jack

 

[Jeff From Salem]

Oligarchies and climate change? Cancer? What in the world?

Presenting the current management company as some flawless white knight while painting Wyndham as an evil corporation and using misleading percentages and statistics as “proof”?

I’m sure all the money that Wyndham has invested into their ownership was discarded because it came from an evil corporation right?

Good luck to you...

Your complete dismissal of any point I make makes me put you into the troll department. And statement about GP and Wyndham? You have no evidence of the former, and you are ignorant, whether willfully or not, of the latter. So do and think whatever. I can't help you.

But for the rest of you, here's the thing --

There's kind of two camps you can be in. If you really think that Wyndham is a truly a benign presence, then what people like Karen Blackford, myself, and others put out is going to seem way over the top. It will seem like we're sort of nuts.

On the other hand, for those who understand and appreciate what we're talking about, and nod in affirmation about our concerns, action to combat and hopefully reverse what Wyndham is trying to do requires absolute urgency and loud protest. And we need numbers. What we assert that Wyndham is trying to do here is not an isolated case, as they have tried it elsewhere - sometimes successfully, sometimes not. Some of us have evidence that we can't state publicly, either, because of the sources.

Our mission will require work and a coming together of the owners community to fight it. Lackadaisical or half-hearted effort won't succeed.

So know where some of us are coming from; and know why we're doing it. We hope that you'll support us by, at the very least, vote for the right candidates for the board. Better yet, put pressure on the board by writing to them via the KBV Grand Pacific hosted website. If you're going to be at the annual meeting, be as informed as possible coming in. And make sure you read any materials they hand out related to the meeting, including rules. If there's a rule that allows only pre-submitted questions with no followups, protest it and tell them that you don't have any intention of agreeing to that rule (Last year, they handed us a packet literally minutes before the start of the meeting with page or two of rules. We then were asked to agree with them at the start of the meeting. Of course, no one had a chance to read them thoroughly to discover the rule about questions until after the fact.).

Jeff

 

[Jeff From Salem]

Jeff,

I am a pragmatist, not an idealist. I can only go by the facts that are in front of me, and not your idealist vision of the future - one that fails to address the main problem facing KBV - defaulting owners.

As I said previously - I really dont care who has the mgt contract or control of the BOD. What I do care about is having a viable plan for addressing defaulting owners - one that does not exacerbate the problem by upgrading the resort thru a special assessment. Particularly if the end game is to make it more appealing to renters.

Because I do believe it is folly to see rentals as salvation you seem to believe it is. As other BoD members/candidates have pointed out, rental income will evaporate during hard times - creating a bigger problem for a shrinking pool of dues paying owners.

Which comes to the crux of the real problem - how does the HOA divest itself of the growing inventory of defaulting intervals? Particularly if we are eliminating a bulk sale as an option?

For me, and I am sure for other owners, this discussion is about the best path moving forward. And not marginalizing opinions you dont agree with by suggesting they are "in bed with them". Perhaps the dialog would be productive, if you spent half as many words to just address the points I surface rather than attacking the author.

And Jeff - 97 people out of 100 people can be wrong. At one point in time 97 people out of 100 believed that the sun rotated around the earth.

Okay, you say you're a pragmatist. But are you a fatalist? Are you possibly suggesting it's too late to do anything about Wyndham? We have seen them bring down other resorts, but we have also seen a couple of examples of owners banding together and successfully fighting back.

And regarding science and scientists, your latter assumption is not correct. They're scientists, for one. In order to come to their conclusion, scientists have to have create models that can repeated over and over and over and over again. If you don't understand this, then you don't understand scientists and how they work. That some way back when suggested that the sun rotated around the earth was based on religious belief, not science. An example of an experiment with gravity is something you can do at home. In a normal environment, if you let go of an object above a surface, it will always fall down. You can do that experiment over and over and over again. Whatever force that has the object drop, and we're calling it gravity, it occurs. It's not conjecture that the object falls. It does. That makes it scientific fact. The model experiment of dropping an object gets confirmed as a physical property, we call gravity.

Here's another example of science. Something called carbon dating. Scientists discovered that by applying a certain chemical to a substance, they can use the carbon in the object (which is an atom we are ALL made of) to date the age of whatever they're testing with great accuracy. So knowing the accuracy and reliability of the test, when they come across fossils, they can perform the test of the fossil and know whether it's 100 years old, 50,000 years old, or 47 million years old. The test can be repeated over and over and over again. They get the same result. THAT is what scientists do.

And scientists need to submit their testing for peer review, groups that oversee the testing to make sure it's sound. By the time any conclusion gets released to the public, it isn't a theory or hypothetical, it's scientific fact. So if 97% of climate scientists have research that concludes the same thing, you can count on it.

The consequences of continued hemming and hawing regarding climate change is potential catastrophe for the planet sooner rather than later. You can continue to merely think about the effects of climate change and do nothing for a 10 years, but most climate scientists say that we have 12 years to turn it around or it will essentially be the point of no return. Would you really want to try to prove their point otherwise, especially when the odds are that it's 97% likely it's going to happen without aggressive actions? You'd really want to fight those odds?

Getting back to Kauai Beach Villas, yes, the need to get paying owners on board is critical. But it's not one or the other either. For me, these two goals go hand in hand. Wyndham and Diamond, the two worst practitioners, have been known to go into resorts and gradually worsen the conditions to the point where owners don't want to be there and the deeds become worthless. Wyndham then takes the deeds off their hands at pennies on the dollar. Wyndham's Modus Operandi has been evident here. With the resort getting more attractive to be at under GP, that's a start in getting more individual owners to buy into it. I can tell you that in my KBV Owners Yahoo group, there have been a number of successful sales transpired there.

Increasing rental income is just one way of helping. Regarding sales, a hired sales company would work to get deeds into the hands of individual paying owners. And that would work if the resort were kept sparkling and exciting to be at. But at the time, Wyndham used their time doing sales to get owners to hand over their deed to Wyndham's Vacation Ownership program. That created greater inventory and interest for their Vacation Club members, but didn't help creating a community of independent owners that could bond and have control over the direction of KBV.

Have you ever been to a Grand Pacific resort other than KBV? I have. That's what turned me onto them. I was astonished as to how much better they were run than our's, then managed by Wyndham. I talked to one of the VPs at GP as well as to Trish Harrington and helped get them talking. That was almost a decade ago.

KBV has gotten so much better in the 2 1/2 years Grand Pacific has been our manager. I see no reason to want to get rid of them. As long as they're earning their money, I want them to continue to the direction they're going.

Jeff

 

[Jeff From Salem]

Aloha

Although not a candidate this year, I did send a campaign season email to owners a couple of weeks ago. It included the following:

. . . Our board and resort management has been meeting monthly as an Ownership Transition Committee of which I am chairperson. There is much left to do. I highlight two particular developments in addition to establishment of the Public Square:

• We have acquired a wealth of information useful for BOD planning and decision making from the approximately 10% of individual owners who participated in the December 2018 survey
• An excel based stock and flow sensitivity analysis model has been calibrated based on survey and other data to enable the BOD to better assess the long range effects of various strategic alternatives

Among other reasons, the Public Square was established for the use of the large number of owners who indicated willingness in the September 2018 survey to serve on committees using virtual tools. I invite all owners with that interest to initiate and/or participate in threads in the Public Square about which committees should be formed and how they should function.

We all share the benefits and responsibilities of ownership at KBV. Nothing about the future is certain. As I suggested in my 2018 campaign statement and now firmly believe, the best strategic option(s) for maintaining independence and long term financial stability will require changes to our governance documents. We will need much higher demonstrated voting rates to authorize such changes. Please vote. . . .​

Jeff, you have clearly stated your views about Wyndham. I don’t see the point in responding to logical reservations that others have with your position by just loudly repeating the same story over and over. I acknowledge that you are an established opinion leader for perhaps a couple of hundred KBV owners. Why not focus on positive actions that might contribute to the future you prefer? Do you have thoughts on which owner populated committees might be most useful? Do you have thoughts on how to get more owners engaged? For the owners on your yahoo list who also read this forum, can you explain why you resist some of the easiest small steps such as I suggested 4/17/19 in your yahoo group (to use https://www.tugbbs.com/forums/index...ests-currently-staying-on-site-at-kbv.281303/ )

Mahalo,

Jack

Because, Jack, there are others who are contributing with ideas regarding some of the smaller improvements. I have contributed in that regard as well. I have even suggested notating and posting detailed minutes of the meetings to help the owners stay more informed. I have suggested the need to embrace as many of the potential upgrades to the units to make them more desirable, not only for current owners, but for prospective ones.

On the other hand, Jack, I'm one of a few who see the bigger picture of what Wyndham has been systematically trying to do. And pushing back against them takes more drastic efforts and a louder voice.

Being a proponent of improvements to KBV and dealing with Wyndham's attempted encroachment and/or takeover is a BIG issue. Part of dealing with this is certainly to get more owners to be informed and take action which will affect our ability to stay independent.

Jeff

 

[ecwinch]

We have seen them bring down other resorts

Getting back to Kauai Beach Villas, yes, the need to get paying owners on board is critical. But it's not one or the other either. For me, these two goals go hand in hand. Wyndham and Diamond, the two worst practitioners, have been known to go into resorts and gradually worsen the conditions to the point where owners don't want to be there and the deeds become worthless. Wyndham then takes the deeds off their hands at pennies on the dollar.

What other resorts has Wyndham brought down in the manner as you describe?

What is the worst case scenario you can point to where owners have been driven off and Wyndham has taken over. And what are the remaining owners at those resorts faced with in terms of their current ownership?

 

[DeniseM]

My 2 Cents: Owners who have converted to Wyndham points may see value in Wyndham that does not apply to weeks owners. And, if an owner converts to Wyndham points, they may be more interested in trading than staying at KBV, and therefore, may be more invested in Wyndham, than KBV.

I suspect that these fundamental differences in ownership may result in viewpoints that can't be reconciled. YMMV

 

[ecwinch]

My 2 Cents: Owners who have converted to Wyndham points may see value in Wyndham that does not apply to weeks owners. And, if an owner converts to Wyndham points, they may be more interested in trading than staying at KBV, and therefore, may be more invested in Wyndham, than KBV.

I suspect that these fundamental differences in ownership may result in viewpoints that can't be reconciled. YMMV

Denise - but only 10% of the owners are staying at KBV. I suspect if we broke that number down further the majority of that usage would be of the ocean-front units.

So I would likewise observe that the owners of oceanfront units are more vested in keeping KBV "independent" than owners who have a garden/lagoon unit.

Ps. Just to re-iterate my position. I dont see this as discussion about "independence" or returning the mgt contract to Wyndham. It is about the path forward and addressing the issues facing the resort. One without a sizable special assessment and how we deal with the 299+ intervals not paying dues.

 

[DeniseM]

You may be right, but as an Oceanfront owner, I'm going to defend my position as a KBV weeks owner, just like you are going to defend your position as a Wyndham points owner. There's nothing wrong with that, but as I said above, I don't think these two viewpoints can be reconciled by debate, because having Wyndham manage the resort does not benefit me, but a Wyndham points owner may feel it benefits them.

 

[ecwinch]

You may be right, but as an Oceanfront owner, I'm going to defend my position as a KBV weeks owner, just like you are going to defend your position as a Wyndham points owner. There's nothing wrong with that, but as I said above, I don't think these two viewpoints can be reconciled by debate, because having Wyndham manage the resort does not benefit me, but a Wyndham points owner may feel it benefits them.

As I apparently need to keep saying - I really dont care. I am fine with GPR.

The disparity in viewpoints is not because I am a Wyndham owner. It is because Jeff views anyone who is not with him as being against him. He is abusive towards anyone who voices disagreement. He implies they are trolls. He implies they are in bed with Wyndham. He has repeatedly calls people ignorant. Apparently that is ok.

 

[DeniseM]

I'm not talking about Jeff at all. After following this thread for awhile, I've come to the conclusion that points owners and weeks owners have positions that can't be reconciled by debate.

 

[ecwinch]

Denise .... I dont see that.

I think everyone wants their vacations to KBV to be great experiences.
I think everyone wants those vacations to be a good value.
I think everyone wants the HOA to not be burdened by defaulting owners.
I think everyone wants avoid a sizable special assessment.

But instead this conversation is now being focused on the "two camps you can be in". That is not the path to success. It is counterproductive to having a respectful discussion on how to move forward.

 

[DeniseM]

I completely agree about respectful discussions, however, I also think there are legitimate material differences between the goals and views of points owners vs weeks owners. YMMV

 

[jacknsara]

Our currently strong US economy has a history of irregular cycles. A prudent board has to plan to survive future down cycles within historic norms. We all know that discretionary travel is expected to decrease during a recession. However, right now there is no reliable data that indicates a recession is imminent.

For the near term, the high rental revenues that Jeff repeatedly cites is mostly plugging the budgetary gap that would otherwise be the result of current delinquencies and defaults leading to the IOA owning inventory.

I will not engage in a detailed data based discussion of strategic options, but will state what should be obvious:

Until / unless enough folks who currently do not own KBV units start buying them resale at a rate that equals or slightly exceeds the rate at which existing owners want to exit, the problem will grow. As the problem grows, solution options shrink.

There is a poster that has been around for decades with different graphics that reads: Lead, Follow, or Get out of the Way.

Whether one likes it or not, Jeff has become an opinion leader for perhaps a couple of hundred owners. He uses his virtual soapbox to harangue against Wyndham. Other than candidate endorsement, I don’t see what he offers in the way of feasible joint action; perhaps I am missing something. I offered the suggestions / requests to Jeff in my earlier post because I hope implementation would contribute (along with actions not mentioned) to eventual improvement in the perception of KBV’s value. Jeff is free to do nothing or adopt other tactics that he believes would increase the perception of KBV’s value among non-owners. However, a leader who chooses to do nothing is in the way.

 

[Pathways]

not sure how you translate my post into starting controversy? to each his own I suppose.

After much thought and consideration, (actually it's rather obvious), I here-by move that the title of these threads be changed to 'Jeff's personal threads" to more apply describe its contents. No real discussion is taking place, just a lot of humble (and not so humble) back patting and put downs to anyone with a meaningful thought contrary to the thread 'owner's'.

 

[ecwinch]

I completely agree about respectful discussions, however, I also think there are legitimate material differences between the goals and views of points owners vs weeks owners. YMMV

Ok.... what material differences do you see between the points owners and weeks owners?

 

[Aurelius]

Your complete dismissal of any point I make makes me put you into the troll department. And statement about GP and Wyndham? You have no evidence of the former, and you are ignorant, whether willfully or not, of the latter. So do and think whatever. I can't help you.

But for the rest of you, here's the thing --

There's kind of two camps you can be in. If you really think that Wyndham is a truly a benign presence, then what people like Karen Blackford, myself, and others put out is going to seem way over the top. It will seem like we're sort of nuts.

On the other hand, for those who understand and appreciate what we're talking about, and nod in affirmation about our concerns, action to combat and hopefully reverse what Wyndham is trying to do requires absolute urgency and loud protest. And we need numbers. What we assert that Wyndham is trying to do here is not an isolated case, as they have tried it elsewhere - sometimes successfully, sometimes not. Some of us have evidence that we can't state publicly, either, because of the sources.

Our mission will require work and a coming together of the owners community to fight it. Lackadaisical or half-hearted effort won't succeed.

So know where some of us are coming from; and know why we're doing it. We hope that you'll support us by, at the very least, vote for the right candidates for the board. Better yet, put pressure on the board by writing to them via the KBV Grand Pacific hosted website. If you're going to be at the annual meeting, be as informed as possible coming in. And make sure you read any materials they hand out related to the meeting, including rules. If there's a rule that allows only pre-submitted questions with no followups, protest it and tell them that you don't have any intention of agreeing to that rule (Last year, they handed us a packet literally minutes before the start of the meeting with page or two of rules. We then were asked to agree with them at the start of the meeting. Of course, no one had a chance to read them thoroughly to discover the rule about questions until after the fact.).

Jeff

So when did name calling become appropriate behavior here?

To be clear, to any sane person reading this thread, you’re not helping your cause.

 

[jacknsara]

So when did name calling become appropriate behavior here? . . .

As a reminder, the following paragraph is pasted in from TUG’s Terms of Service and Rules at https://www.tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?help/terms
Be Courteous
As we read and respond to others, disagreements are inevitable. Differing points of view are welcomed, and indeed the bbs would be a dull place without them. All users are expected and required to express their disagreements civilly. Refrain from name calling and behavior lectures. Personal attacks will not be tolerated and repeated offenses could get you banned from the bbs. Lively discussion is what the board is all about, but that is no excuse for boorish behavior or bad manners. We are assumed to all be adults. If you don't like a particular thread, stop reading it!

FWIW - I am a/the authorized representative of the KBV IOA BOD who has been granted moderator access/privilege for this KBV Public Square sub forum only. I mention this because I don't think my profile indicates that.

 

[Aurelius]

As a reminder, the following paragraph is pasted in from TUG’s Terms of Service and Rules at https://www.tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?help/terms
Be Courteous
As we read and respond to others, disagreements are inevitable. Differing points of view are welcomed, and indeed the bbs would be a dull place without them. All users are expected and required to express their disagreements civilly. Refrain from name calling and behavior lectures. Personal attacks will not be tolerated and repeated offenses could get you banned from the bbs. Lively discussion is what the board is all about, but that is no excuse for boorish behavior or bad manners. We are assumed to all be adults. If you don't like a particular thread, stop reading it!

FWIW - I am a/the authorized representative of the KBV IOA BOD who has been granted moderator access/privilege for this KBV Public Square sub forum only. I mention this because I don't think my profile indicates that.

Yes that’s the rule that’s not being enforced, apparently.

 

[Jeff From Salem]

Our currently strong US economy has a history of irregular cycles. A prudent board has to plan to survive future down cycles within historic norms. We all know that discretionary travel is expected to decrease during a recession. However, right now there is no reliable data that indicates a recession is imminent.

For the near term, the high rental revenues that Jeff repeatedly cites is mostly plugging the budgetary gap that would otherwise be the result of current delinquencies and defaults leading to the IOA owning inventory.

I will not engage in a detailed data based discussion of strategic options, but will state what should be obvious:

Until / unless enough folks who currently do not own KBV units start buying them resale at a rate that equals or slightly exceeds the rate at which existing owners want to exit, the problem will grow. As the problem grows, solution options shrink.

There is a poster that has been around for decades with different graphics that reads: Lead, Follow, or Get out of the Way.

Whether one likes it or not, Jeff has become an opinion leader for perhaps a couple of hundred owners. He uses his virtual soapbox to harangue against Wyndham. Other than candidate endorsement, I don’t see what he offers in the way of feasible joint action; perhaps I am missing something. I offered the suggestions / requests to Jeff in my earlier post because I hope implementation would contribute (along with actions not mentioned) to eventual improvement in the perception of KBV’s value. Jeff is free to do nothing or adopt other tactics that he believes would increase the perception of KBV’s value among non-owners. However, a leader who chooses to do nothing is in the way.

Jack, you're kidding, right? You don't synopsize the work I have done over the last three years? You and I have talked privately, so you know I'm up to more than what you suggest.

Right now, voting for the right people is paramount, because I think doing otherwise will aid Wyndham in getting back complete control of the KBV timeshares. With currently all of the deeds they own, plus being the hired manager? And you only site me?? You ARE aware that there are others working on this, including Karen Blackford. For now, we need to keep Grand Pacific around, because they're doing what we all, collectively, need them to do, and they're doing it well.

And by the way, you're editorializing by categorizing my criticism of Wyndham as "haranguing" is head scratching. You have had the same criticisms in the past. And the saveKBV.org is not my website. I certainly whole-heartedly endorse it, as do many others. But you don't have any words for Karen, and you do for me just because I'm more vocal here?

We then need to working on wrestling back control by getting the unsold, unpaying deeds into the hands of excited, motivated, independent owners. The ultimate goal is to have an exciting, thriving, independent, and independently controlled Kauai Beach Villas.

Jeff

 

[ecwinch]

Jeff - if your greatest concern is keeping Wyndham from taking back the mgt contract, why not introduce an amendment to the by-laws that requires membership approval of a change of manager?

 

[ecwinch]

I completely agree about respectful discussions, however, I also think there are legitimate material differences between the goals and views of points owners vs weeks owners. YMMV

I do want to point out a factual inaccuracy I see in some posts that might contribute to your perspective that there are legitimate material differences between the goals and views of points owners vs weeks owners.

When a KBV decides to join Club Wyndham - they do not "give up their deed" as has been misstated by some. The process by which I receive my Club Wyndham points is called an "assignment". On an annual basis my usage rights are automatically assigned to Club Wyndham in exchange for a fixed amount of points (325k in my case).

Other than that and that I pay my dues on a monthly basis (to Wyndham), my rights and responsibilities are the same as any other KBV owner. If I choose I can exercise my reservation rights to book a unit of my size/view at 14-16 months out just as other members (and not receive points that year). I have the right to vote in elections and run for the BoD. If I choose, I can terminate the assignment agreement at any time.

So other than the fact that I have the additional option to exchange my week for points - just as any other member of KBV can exchange their week with RCI or GPX or TPI - owners who have converted are identical to weeks owners in all respects.

 

[ecwinch]

It is NEVER in the interest of an independently owned timeshare to have a corporation on the board.

Think about it - Wyndham corporation owns 2200 deeds, giving them 6600 votes for this election.

As far as Eric is concerned, he doesn't merely discuss alternatives. He never acknowledges the issues that we are fighting for as legitimate.

Dogmatic reasoning that automatically excludes all possible options will always fail over time.

The fact that Wyndham owns 1000+ intervals, means they control close to 20% of the voting power. So fighting to keep KBV "independent" (aka no corporate presence) is a day late and a dollar short. And based on what is going on at OVI, may not necessarily be a better path.

And any meaningful solution that addresses the long-term challenges KBV faces requires the support of Wyndham. And comprise with that key stakeholder is difficult when they are painted as the villian. Period. Full stop.

 

[bjreichel]

Jeff - if your greatest concern is keeping Wyndham from taking back the mgt contract, why not introduce an amendment to the by-laws that requires membership approval of a change of manager?

If I'm reading the governing documents correctly, I believe this was already done through an amendment to Article V of the Declarations in 1996:

"Section 7.a. entitled "Appointment of Plan Manaaer and Deleqation of Board Powers and Duties", is changed so that subpart 1. in its entirety reads as follows (with the remaining portions of this Section left intact): "1. The Plan Manager Management Agreement must provide as follows: (a) The term may not be longer than three (3) years, but may provide for automatic renewals annually after the end of the initial term, unless a written notice canceling the contract is given by either party at least ninety (90) days before the renewal date. (b) Any decision by the Association not to renew any contract with a Plan Manager must be made by the vote or written assent of at least a majority of the voting power of all Owners excluding the Developer. (c) However, the Board must have the right to cancel the Agreement if the Plan Manager has violated it. If the Plan Manager claims it has not committed any violation, the matter will be determined by arbitration in accordance with the Commercial Arbitration Rules of the American Arbitration Association."

 

[Jeff From Salem]

Dogmatic reasoning that automatically excludes all possible options will always fail over time.

The fact that Wyndham owns 1000+ intervals, means they control close to 20% of the voting power. So fighting to keep KBV "independent" (aka no corporate presence) is a day late and a dollar short. And based on what is going on at OVI, may not necessarily be a better path.

And any meaningful solution that addresses the long-term challenges KBV faces requires the support of Wyndham. And comprise with that key stakeholder is difficult when they are painted as the villian. Period. Full stop.

Eric, do you own Wyndham property, are involved in their Vacation Club, or have stock in Wyndham?