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The Central at 5th by Hilton Club-New Location?

Discussion in 'Hilton Grand Vacations Club / HGVC' started by holdaer, Apr 12, 2019.

  1. dayooper

    dayooper TUG Member

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    Sorry you had a bad experience. I can definitely see how your salesman turned you off to the system. Sounds like enjoyed HCNY. Hopefully, they can change the system to include other properties. Might be a long shot, but you never know.
     
  2. Talent312

    Talent312 Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    Is sounds like you made the classic mistake of thinking that a sales-weasel was a human being who would be interested in listening to your issues, even if he stood no chance of making any money off you.

    I side with the sales-weasel on this one... It's one thing for marketing to lure someone to an "update" with candy (it's what they do). But complaints only serve to shut 'em down... It doesn't put food on the table.
    .
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
  3. brp

    brp TUG Member

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    While I'm not the biggest fan of sales people, this seems unduly harsh. These folks are human beings trying to make a living. While some do do things that are less professional and quite weasily, we've met quite a few who are not. In the end, there is nothing that they can do about these complaints, so it would be a waste of both their time and the customer's for them to engage on this. To view thinking of them as human as a miskate does not seem fair to me.

    Cheers.
     
  4. Nomad420

    Nomad420 Guest

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    Certainly was not going to result in a sale and I doubt I am changing anyone's mind on the use of points in the HC. I was just trying to gather information and wasn't particularly surly with them at all. I even said I need not speak with "sales". I suspect had I (and of course my wife) gone to the "update" session we could have asked many of the questions I had but I wanted to be up front with them (mistake). For those interested they moved a sales office apparently onto I believe the 45 floor of the Hilton one floor below I believe the Residences. Not sure what the "new" offering was as I didn't go. The sales office on 57th street is still there as well. I suspect all new properties in NYC are going to be HC's and hence will be restricted in use of points from HGVC properties but I could not get the answer to that while in NY. Personally I think this issue has been misleading at a minimum and more appropriately a rip off to other HGVC property owners. This "club with in a club" thing to me doesn't ring true but it is what it is for now.
     
  5. brp

    brp TUG Member

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    One things to be clear about (and I think it has been clear elsewhere, but seems less so here): All of the bHC properties except HCNY are limited to other HGVC points, but not restricted. All others allow people from other bHC as well as HGVC into the inventory, albeit with a window reduced from other HGVC uses. Only HCNY is truly restricted to use by other HGVC points.

    Again, I believe that this was clear elsewhere, but doesn't seem clear here.

    Cheers.
     
  6. Nomad420

    Nomad420 Guest

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    Sorry I should have been clear, I was referring to NYC bHC properties, I realize the other bHCs allow limited use of points for booking. Perhaps I am wrong but I thought the Residences in NYC were also "restricted" to use with HGVC points. And again I don't know what the intention is with the "new" property but I am suspicious that it will at a minimum have very limited HGVC point use.
     
  7. CalGalTraveler

    CalGalTraveler TUG Member

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    We attended a presentation in NYC. I found the update worthwhile and I find the NYC HGVC reps to be reasonable (will give a full report of what I learned later). However I agree that they are not the right personnel in HGVC to speak with regarding your HCNY issues because they are not empowered to address your concerns.

    What is your goal from the meeting?

    1) To have them take your unit back? (unlikely at full price but they will give you something if you contact the buyback (not the sales) office)
    2) Exchange to another club point accessible property like W57?
    3) To vent so they change their sales practices?
    4) Other?

    If you would like to pursue #2, I learned that the Florida telesales office does not have the overhead, has access to all of the inventory, and can cut more lucrative deals. To trade your unit into a club accessible property such as W57 perhaps that might be a good place to go and perhaps they could take your unit as trade in and waive the min upgrade so it is an even swap given your concerns.

    You might be able to check around TUG for a VP contact to approve a waiver in #2.

    It's good that you are using your property. I am trying to suggest some constructive ideas to make your ownership work better for you.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
    janckenn likes this.
  8. brp

    brp TUG Member

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    Yes, you are incorrect. Only HCNY is restricted. The others (Residences and W. 57th) allow HGVC use with relatively short windows. I would expect the same of the new property inasmuch as HCNY is the oldest and all of the newer ones have gone with the "allowed, but time-limited" model.

    Cheers.
     
  9. Nomad420

    Nomad420 Guest

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    Love to hear your report back on the "update". As for as "goals", all I wanted was some answers to several specific questions I had about the point use between bHC and HGVC. As indicated above there is confusion about this for sure. I thought about your exchange question but have pretty much been told it would be a loose loose situation and really not looking for that as I don't wish to sink any further cash into bHC/HGVC. As far as "venting", well I am beyond that and figure what ever I say would go in one ear and out the other so I have no false pretenses that this would do anything. I plan on using what I have for now and into the foreseeable future but will obviously not add any HGVC properties. For now it is what it is but it would have been nice to have a Vegas property with the flexibility of using those points at HCNY. I realize I can do the opposite (HCNY points in Vegas) but for my purposes that is less appealing and less likely. One option is to purchase more HCNY property retail if it could be obtained on the cheap but that also has its drawbacks (high MFs). Also, the good news/bad news is HCNY property value, even retail, is holding up pretty well so getting it "on the cheap" is not likely (at least for now).
     
  10. CalGalTraveler

    CalGalTraveler TUG Member

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    @Nomad420 that is helpful information. You have nothing to lose by asking but you will need someone high up in the organization to approve it to resolve your customer satisfaction issues. Sales people are not empowered do it and won't get paid for it so no incentive.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
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  11. tombanjo

    tombanjo TUG Member

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    Per recent presentation, Central is being sold at pre-construction prices, which are less than current w57th prices. The lower end units are sold out for this phase. They are "using the plans" from 57th street, so rooms will be the same. I guess the good news is there is a lot of continued interest and developer sales in NYC. So us lowly resale owners should be ok. If there is high demand for retail price, resale prices will have support at least at present levels. Once the availability of Quin and Central rooms comes online, us "classic" owners might have more availability. Since I am new, not sure if the Residences caused any disturbances in the ether in terms of price and availability.
     
    CalGalTraveler likes this.
  12. CalGalTraveler

    CalGalTraveler TUG Member

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    @tombanjo Thanks for the update. Did they provide you with the MF on the units? We were quoted at early construction stage pricing a platinum studio Penthouse 14,400 pts $129k with a $3,800 MF; A one bedroom gold with 14,500 points is in the $79k range. Didn't get quotes for smaller units perhaps because sold out.

    The building is a doppelganger for W57 but there will be retail on the bottom two floors. Building doesn't appear to have views and IMO W57 is in a better location near Central Park on Billionaires Row.

    We were told HGVC thought they were going to have more W57/Central at 5th type buildings constructed throughout NYC but the 2008 crash occurred. They are now regaining steam with new properties built by third parties and are ramping up the NYC sales offices = more presentation offers.

    Here is the points chart we received:

    The Central at 5th

    Platinum 7-28, 35 - 52
    Studio 5250
    Studio Plus 7200
    Studio Premier 9300
    Studio Premier Plus 12,600
    Studio Penthouse 14,400

    1 Bdrm Premier 16,800
    1 Bdrm Penthouse 21,000


    Gold 1 - 6, 29 - 34

    Studio 3250
    Studio Plus 5100
    Studio Premier 6300
    Studio Premier Plus 8700
    Studio Penthouse 10,500

    1 Bdrm Premier 11,600
    1 Bdrm Penthouse 14,500

     
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
  13. tombanjo

    tombanjo TUG Member

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    I didn't get MF numbers as it was obvious there was no way I was buying anything and the lower priced units were sold out. I did get my elevated gift certificates, and most likely I will never be asked to a presentation again.
     
  14. CalGalTraveler

    CalGalTraveler TUG Member

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    They seem to have added another "Studio" tier to this building but it has the same number of points required as W57 "Studio Plus" units.

    They also indicated that Central at 5th sales were strong. FWIW, Although reps lips were moving, I find the NYC reps to be more professional and informative; they don't play the stupid sales games that we have experienced in other sales offices. Perhaps because they are offering a more cost effective alternative to buyers compared to a full NYC condo?

    I actually thought they were going to sell us on the Quin so I was surprised when then spoke about Central at 5th. Here is what we learned about the Quin:

    Quin

    1) The Quin at Central Park (across the street from W57) will be a different product. It is targeted for an upscale buyer who is willing to drop at least $250k or more on a unit. Apparently there are a number of owners at W57 who own several studios and have paid in $125k on their purchases to stay multiple weeks (or perhaps need multiple rooms for family.) The Quin will appeal to such buyers because adding another $125k to upgrade on Billionaires Row is still much less expensive than buying a similarly located NYC condo. IMO...I wonder if Quin will be treated like HCNY with no club access. Or will be will be longer-term fractionals instead of weekly timeshares for that price.


    2) Because of the price tag, Quin will be rolled out more slowly - floor by floor and unit by unit. Don't expect a surge of units available for club.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
  15. CalGalTraveler

    CalGalTraveler TUG Member

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    Here's another tidbit from the visit:

    1) AirBnB's and VRBO's are now illegal in NYC. So if you rent in the future in a separate unit from someone's home, the person renting to you may be breaking the law and could put your vacation at risk. However this law is being legally challenged in the courts: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/03/nyregion/nyc-airbnb-rentals.html Bottom line: if you AirBnB in NYC check the latest on this law.


    2) If the AirBnB ban prevails, NYC timeshare owners are excepted from the NYC law. Timeshare owners can rent out their unit because timeshares are not considered to be displacing rental units for residents (its more like a hotel). This is a positive development for timeshare owners as demand will be higher without competition from AirBnB/VRBO units.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
  16. Tamaradarann

    Tamaradarann TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    An interesting point about Turtle Bay is that the new Vice President and General Manager of Turtle Bay is Jerry Gibson, who was Area Vice President of all Hilton Hawaiian Operations including the timeshares on Oahu and Hawaii Island.
     
  17. jehb2

    jehb2 TUG Member

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    Is Turtle Bay still remote. Whenever we use to drive by it seemed out in the middle of nowhere.
     
  18. brp

    brp TUG Member

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    This has been the case for some number of years now- a decade or more. A good friend had a business in New York where they rented apartments on a monthly basis and rented them out short-term for people who wanted that instead of standard hotels. They were not able to do this in NYC as of quite a while back and where in Jersey City, which had spectacular views of Manhattan.

    Cheers.
     
    ljmiii likes this.
  19. Nomad420

    Nomad420 Guest

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    Not wanting to beat a dead horse and some of my question may not have answers to but here they are:
    Will Central at 5th be HGVC (not byHC) and will they accept all points from all other properties (with restrictions of course)?
    The Residence Club, does it accept points from all other HGVC properties and what is the booking window?
    Is The Quinn also to be a HGVC or byHC property or something completely different?
    Having recently visited the Residence Club I was pretty impressed but it was indeed pricey with little to nothing now present on the resale market fwiw.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
  20. CalGalTraveler

    CalGalTraveler TUG Member

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    All NYC is bHC. There will be a 60 day club window. However I got the impression Quin may be something completely different akin to HCNY or a fractional akin to the Ritz Carlton Residences - but this is speculation at this point because they haven't started selling yet. :shrug: One thing we do know is that it won't be HGVC Club.

    We were told that bHC is driven by the average daily rate of the hotels in the area to support the 50:1 HHonors conversion. Chicago could not consistently meet that test. NYC passes that test handily as will other major cities such as SF.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
  21. Cyberc

    Cyberc TUG Member

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    Those point requirements are insane, who can afford prices like that? I mean if $130k is a drop in the bucket for a week in a studio, I would assume you could afford to buy a real apartment in NYC.

    The more we see of these pricing the more I like my West57 :)

    What I dont understand is that the market for a studio, plus and premier is much bigger compared to the market for the most expensive units ie Penthouses. Why build the expensive ones as its more difficult to get rid of them afterwards?
     
  22. CalGalTraveler

    CalGalTraveler TUG Member

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    IMO...some folks want the prestige of saying they "own a NYC penthouse." NYC buyers are competing with the world for limited real estate. Not just competing against locals, and this drives up values. I think you would need to spend $1 - 5 million to get equivalent condo on the same street in Manhattan. Remember that W57 is on Billionaire's row. It's all relative.
     
  23. Cyberc

    Cyberc TUG Member

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    I guess your right.

    It will be interesting to see how much their ownerships will be worth when new owners at these properties tries to sell in a few years.
     
  24. 1Kflyerguy

    1Kflyerguy TUG Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    Its probably a safe assumption that many retail buyers finance their purchases. Its much easier to finance a $130K purchase than $1-5 million purchase, at least for me it would be.
     
  25. Cyberc

    Cyberc TUG Member

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    Your right. Unless you take a mortgage against your house you will pay a high interest rate and with a $130k loan you will have some hefty payments.
     

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