• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Thanksgiving (and other high demand weeks)

davidvel

TUG Member
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
7,432
Reaction score
4,477
Points
648
Location
No. Cty. San Diego
Resorts Owned
Marriott Shadow Ridge (Villages)
Carlsbad Inn
I know this has been mentioned before, but I wonder how many people try to get their desired high demand week at 9am and then give up when nothing is available? I have seen many threads where people complain that all check in days are gone seconds after 9am. The old adage "If at first you don't succeed..." comes to mind.

Despite putting it on my calendar and being ready days in advance, I blew the 6am (PST) wake up for Thanksgiving (at MRD). At 7am, nothing was available. But, a few hours later, FRI, SAT & SUN check ins all available. Got my desired SAT check in! This has happened two years in a row.

So, with everything else in the timeshare world, keep trying.

On a related note, this makes me more suspicious of the Marriott inventory management vis-a-vis DC Club. How does this happen? Are they holding back inventory to see demand for DC Club members, to the demise of weeks owners? How do all these weeks suddenly appear hours after inventory opens? This seems to be some sort of manipulation, whether proper or not.
 

JIMinNC

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,879
Reaction score
4,429
Points
599
Location
Marvin, NC (Charlotte) & Hilton Head Island, SC
Resorts Owned
Marriott:
Maui Ocean Club
Waiohai Beach Club
Barony Beach Club
Abound ClubPoints
HGVC:
HGVC at Sea World
I've seen it theorized here on TUG that the appearance of inventory a few hours after 9am EST/6am PST is due to people canceling reservations they booked at the release time, but that doesn't make sense to me because I read of this happening too much. I can't imagine there would be that many cancelations just hours after the reservation window opens.

Your DC theory may not offer an explanation either, since while weeks reservations open on Thursday morning, the DC reservations for the same time period don't open until Friday morning, so they can't gauge actual demand from DC Club members until then.

There's been many debates here on actually how the weeks get split between the weeks system and the Trust, and the truth is we just don't know. One thing that did just pop into my head though was this - IF the Trust actually reserves their weeks on the normal Thursday release day somewhat like any other owner, might MVC then dump some of those Trust weeks back into the weeks system a few hours after original release if their historical experience/projections are that Trust owners will not typically use all of the weeks the Trust is entitled to during that time period based on the Trust's ownership at any given resort, like your MRD? That could explain how weeks suddenly get dumped back into weeks inventory a few hours after release; but if they do that, it would seem to create an imbalance in the system in favor of weeks owners to the potential detriment of Trust owners, so I can't imagine they would do that, or if it would even be permissible. Who knows? Just some food for thought for the inventory management gurus to chew on.
 
Last edited:

davidvel

TUG Member
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
7,432
Reaction score
4,477
Points
648
Location
No. Cty. San Diego
Resorts Owned
Marriott Shadow Ridge (Villages)
Carlsbad Inn
I've seen it theorized here on TUG that the appearance of inventory a few hours after 9am EST/6am PST is due to people canceling reservations they booked at the release time, but that doesn't make sense to me because I read of this happening too much. I can't imagine there would be that many cancelations just hours after the reservation window opens.

Your DC theory may not offer an explanation either, since while weeks reservations open on Thursday morning, the DC reservations for the same time period don't open until Friday morning, so they can't gauge actual demand from DC Club members until then.

There's been many debates here on actually how the weeks get split between the weeks system and the Trust, and the truth is we just don't know. One thing that did just pop into my head though was this - IF the Trust actually reserves their weeks on the normal Thursday release day somewhat like any other owner, might MVC then dump some of those Trust weeks back into the weeks system a few hours after original release if their historical experience/projections are that Trust owners will not typically use all of the weeks the Trust is entitled to during that time period based on the Trust's ownership at any given resort, like your MRD? That could explain how weeks suddenly get dumped back into weeks inventory a few hours after release; but if they do that, it would seem to create an imbalance in the system in favor of weeks owners to the potential detriment of Trust owners, so I can't imagine they would do that, or if it would even be permissible. Who knows? Just some food for thought for the inventory management gurus to chew on.
I didn't know about the THURS/FRI difference, but it relates to your last paragraph. IF the Trust actually reserves their weeks on the normal Thursday release day somewhat like any other owner, then why not apply whatever projection model they use BEFORE reserving them (automatically via computer, before all other weeks owners presumably)? Why wait a few hours then apply the model?

All of this just reconfirms my long standing belief that Marriott unfairly uses its control of the management and computer reservation systems to acquire the weeks it wants and owns through an automated system, prior to any "regular" weeks owners having a chance to reserve them.
 

JIMinNC

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,879
Reaction score
4,429
Points
599
Location
Marvin, NC (Charlotte) & Hilton Head Island, SC
Resorts Owned
Marriott:
Maui Ocean Club
Waiohai Beach Club
Barony Beach Club
Abound ClubPoints
HGVC:
HGVC at Sea World
I didn't know about the THURS/FRI difference, but it relates to your last paragraph. IF the Trust actually reserves their weeks on the normal Thursday release day somewhat like any other owner, then why not apply whatever projection model they use BEFORE reserving them (automatically via computer, before all other weeks owners presumably)? Why wait a few hours then apply the model?

I agree that IF this is what is going on, it would make more sense to apply that projection before actually reserving the weeks, unless there was some legal or procedural requirement that they initially reserve whatever the Trust is entitled to by virtue of its ownership percentage before reallocating. Again, who knows?

One other theory...could they possibly be intentionally holding back some of the inventory until after the initial 9am/6am rush is over so everything doesn't get snarfed up by the few early birds, leaving other inventory available for those coming online or on the phone a bit later? I've read that Ticketmaster and other ticket sellers may do something similar for high-demand events so that the automated bots and scalpers don't buy up all the tickets in the first few seconds. They gradually release seats over a pre-determined time period to stretch out the sale process and increase the odds that more people get access to the seats. I know I've seen that in practice several times where better seats were available 20 minutes or so after the on-sale time than what was there right at the on-sale time. I experienced that twice with tickets to two Bruce Springsteen concerts in 2014 - I bought tickets within a few seconds of on-sale, but then was able to get much better seats about 20 or 30 minutes later. I wound up buying the better seats when they showed up and sold the other seats to a friend of ours.
 

davidvel

TUG Member
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
7,432
Reaction score
4,477
Points
648
Location
No. Cty. San Diego
Resorts Owned
Marriott Shadow Ridge (Villages)
Carlsbad Inn
I agree that IF this is what is going on, it would make more sense to apply that projection before actually reserving the weeks, unless there was some legal or procedural requirement that they initially reserve whatever the Trust is entitled to by virtue of its ownership percentage before reallocating. Again, who knows?

One other theory...could they possibly be intentionally holding back some of the inventory until after the initial 9am/6am rush is over so everything doesn't get snarfed up by the few early birds, leaving other inventory available for those coming online or on the phone a bit later? I've read that Ticketmaster and other ticket sellers may do something similar for high-demand events so that the automated bots and scalpers don't buy up all the tickets in the first few seconds. They gradually release seats over a pre-determined time period to stretch out the sale process and increase the odds that more people get access to the seats. I know I've seen that in practice several times where better seats were available 20 minutes or so after the on-sale time than what was there right at the on-sale time. I experienced that twice with tickets to two Bruce Springsteen concerts in 2014 - I bought tickets within a few seconds of on-sale, but then was able to get much better seats about 20 or 30 minutes later. I wound up buying the better seats when they showed up and sold the other seats to a friend of ours.
Anything's possible, but hiding that and maybe even implementing it, would not comport with the governing docs. :crash:
 

JIMinNC

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,879
Reaction score
4,429
Points
599
Location
Marvin, NC (Charlotte) & Hilton Head Island, SC
Resorts Owned
Marriott:
Maui Ocean Club
Waiohai Beach Club
Barony Beach Club
Abound ClubPoints
HGVC:
HGVC at Sea World
Anything's possible, but hiding that and maybe even implementing it, would not comport with the governing docs. :crash:

Is there somewhere in the governing docs that specifically says how/what time the inventory must be released? All I could find was the language that says up to 50% can be made available at 13-months with the remainder at 12 months. I could find nothing in the legal docs that says ALL inventory has to be released at 9am/6am on the 12 month release day. The MVC web site just says that "reservations may be made at 9am Eastern on the date indicated." Which would be true as long as some inventory is released at that time. It would seem as long as all available inventory is released on the specified release day, they could argue they are in compliance with the governing docs if they are, in fact, doing some sort of gradual inventory release on the release day. It's all just speculation, of course. That may not be the explanation for what you experienced. It may be something else we haven't considered yet.
 

davidvel

TUG Member
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
7,432
Reaction score
4,477
Points
648
Location
No. Cty. San Diego
Resorts Owned
Marriott Shadow Ridge (Villages)
Carlsbad Inn
Is there somewhere in the governing docs that specifically says how/what time the inventory must be released? All I could find was the language that says up to 50% can be made available at 13-months with the remainder at 12 months. I could find nothing in the legal docs that says ALL inventory has to be released at 9am/6am on the 12 month release day. The MVC web site just says that "reservations may be made at 9am Eastern on the date indicated." Which would be true as long as some inventory is released at that time. It would seem as long as all available inventory is released on the specified release day, they could argue they are in compliance with the governing docs if they are, in fact, doing some sort of gradual inventory release on the release day. It's all just speculation, of course. That may not be the explanation for what you experienced. It may be something else we haven't considered yet.
I'm interpreting the docs based on CA law, so this may not apply everywhere, but I assume it does most locations. (Sidebar: this is the problem with Marriott's "system" as the clubs span so many jurisdictions.)

For example, at Shadow Ridge (MRD), there is no 50% hold back provision. So theoretically all the best weeks could be snapped up by 13 month reservations. Also, the MRD CC&Rs do not have a provision that allows 13 month reservations if the 2 weeks are not both at MRD. But, Marriott allows such 13 month reservations.

The HOA/manager has to treat every owner equally with no favoritism, and implement the CC&Rs in a neutral, objective, transparent fashion. Owners have a right to know how the CC&Rs are being implemented. An HOA certainly can't say inventory opens at 9 a.m. and hide the fact that not all inventory is available.

Whether they can do this at all if they informed owners, is a separate issue. I presume under "reasonable" reservation procedures, the could say: were releasing 25% at 9am, 25% at noon, 25% at 3 pm, and 25% at 6pm to balance load and account for time differences. But they would have to let owners know this.
 

Sunbum

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
475
Reaction score
22
Points
378
I have been saying for years that MCVI can and does manipulate the release of high demand weeks in high demand resorts. (owned weeks).
 

jerseyfinn

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
760
Reaction score
90
Points
388
Location
Sedona AZ
Resorts Owned
MMB MVO
Pause for a moment to see both sides of the picture.

We owners line up in quest of scoring a very competitive reservation. It's a frenetic process & over the years we've all probably done the speed dial dance waiting to get over the first obstacle of that recorded message saying reservation system is closed to that real ring where a human picks up. Then it's either triumph or disappointment.

But consider all of the other factors in play. You have to be in a position to physically make the call or the on-line reservation. Not all of us have jobs that confer that simple possibility to call at exactly 9AM EST. Throw in an assortment of other circumstances that can prevent you from queueing up with the mobs.

Then consider that we're a sea-to-shining-sea nation with 9 time zones if you include the territories. In a practical sense, from Hawaii to the east coast there exists 5 hours of time differences that impact most North American MVC owners (add another zone if you're Canadian ). Toss in more zones if you own in Europe competing with Europe owners. We can't make planet Earth hold still so that we can all log-in or get to the phone at the same time.

The problem to owners is obvious. But also consider MVC's POV. Their business is selling destination travel and delivering use & satisfaction with the product. Execution & a sense of fairness is mission critical. So the call centers are organized & agents respond to what the inventory system gives them. Keep in mind that the Internet is another competing portal for reservations.

Reservation fulfilment is impossible if one defines fulfilment as getting what you want ( though he/she who gets the reservation is indeed "satisfied"). So what can a business do to spread the misery and the satisfaction randomly around?

MVC holds all the cards (inventory). Now they could simply play "52 pick up" leaving bloodied, battered owners. Or they could discretely hold back a small portion of resort inventory & allow this to trickle out throughout the first day. Call it crowd control or righteous reservation blasmphemy. But if I were MVC knowing that I can't please everyone yet I want to maintain a relative fairness, all I need do is randomly meter out a few units and let the cards fall where they may.

A persistent caller might still score a victory later in the day or that anchored down owner who couldn't get free to join the mob might just get to feel like they hit the lotter. Would I ever admit this if I were MVC? Well, did you ever tell your kids there's no Santa Claus?

Once again, I'm just speculating as to what I'd do if confronted with MVC's & owners' situation. Then again, I gave anesthesia for 40+ years and my job was all about looking like you know what you're doing every second whilst figuring out what you're gonna do. Worked just fine for me. Most important is that I always had a back up plan. In this sense I think that timeshare ownership & anesthesia have a lot in common.

enjoy your travels & good luck with your reservations

barry
 

Sunbum

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
475
Reaction score
22
Points
378
My beef is not about spreading out weeks on the day of the 12 month release. I have never seen that happen with Aruba weeks.
My complaint is them telling us to buy more and more weeks to enable us to get the weeks we want. Then regardless of how many weeks you own, there is little to no availability.
 

Saintsfanfl

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Messages
8,844
Reaction score
630
Points
399
Location
Central Florida
One of the main problems with the inventory is rentals for profit. If you look at resorts that are not very profitable to rent out the higher demand weeks will still be sitting there days later. Until Marriott starts enforcing the non-commercial use language it will not get better. Obviously many of us tuggers try and rent out for a profit so some of us are a part of the problem.
 

Oscar923

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2017
Messages
52
Reaction score
26
Points
129
I know this has been mentioned before, but I wonder how many people try to get their desired high demand week at 9am and then give up when nothing is available? I have seen many threads where people complain that all check in days are gone seconds after 9am. The old adage "If at first you don't succeed..." comes to mind.

Despite putting it on my calendar and being ready days in advance, I blew the 6am (PST) wake up for Thanksgiving (at MRD). At 7am, nothing was available. But, a few hours later, FRI, SAT & SUN check ins all available. Got my desired SAT check in! This has happened two years in a row.

So, with everything else in the timeshare world, keep trying.

On a related note, this makes me more suspicious of the Marriott inventory management vis-a-vis DC Club. How does this happen? Are they holding back inventory to see demand for DC Club members, to the demise of weeks owners? How do all these weeks suddenly appear hours after inventory opens? This seems to be some sort of manipulation, whether proper or not.


Hi davidvel,
Here is my reservation experience complimenting yours. I too wanted to reserve a thanksgiving week with my Gold season Shadow Ridge. Unfortunately I was not diligent to log in right at 6 am, and work prevented me to check frequently so I missed my Thanksgiving week. My wife has been demanding me to reserve a thanksgiving week so I blew it. However, I just exchanged through II and got a Saturday to Saturday Thanksgiving week for a 2-bedroom at Shadow Ridge!!! So I deposited my 2-bedroom Shadow Ridge June week, and in return got a 2-bedroom Shadow Ridge Thanksgiving week. It almost sounds ridiculous, but that's what I did. So it did cost me extra fee ($139 II exchange fee), but I am happy that I got the week I wanted.
Others have been commenting on the much improved availability with the 13-month reservation. Perhaps the way to go forward to buy more weeks to get the 13-month reservation advantage.
Anyway, I will see you there next year. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
Oscar923
 

Saintsfanfl

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Messages
8,844
Reaction score
630
Points
399
Location
Central Florida
A near sure way to get your reservation, especially Thanksgiving, is to have 3 weeks. You call a week before the 13 month release date and use one week for the week before Thanksgiving and then two weeks for Thanksgiving. You deposit or rent out the other two weeks and use the third for owner occupy.

The 13 month release of inventory happens continuosly based on how many consecutive reservations someone can string together rather than the actual reported release date.
 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
47,369
Reaction score
18,932
Points
1,299
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
Is Thanksgiving really that hard of a reservation? I called today to change a May reservation at Harbour Lake to Thanksgiving 2018. No problems at all and inventory release was over a week ago.
 

davidvel

TUG Member
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
7,432
Reaction score
4,477
Points
648
Location
No. Cty. San Diego
Resorts Owned
Marriott Shadow Ridge (Villages)
Carlsbad Inn
Is Thanksgiving really that hard of a reservation? I called today to change a May reservation at Harbour Lake to Thanksgiving 2018. No problems at all and inventory release was over a week ago.
Thanksgiving in the desert is pretty popular. Highest demand week in season by far.
 

jeepie

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2013
Messages
441
Reaction score
40
Points
238
Location
Silicon Valley
A near sure way to get your reservation, especially Thanksgiving, is to have 3 weeks. You call a week before the 13 month release date and use one week for the week before Thanksgiving and then two weeks for Thanksgiving. You deposit or rent out the other two weeks and use the third for owner occupy.

The 13 month release of inventory happens continuosly based on how many consecutive reservations someone can string together rather than the actual reported release date.
Might even be better to call two weeks before the 13 month release date, and book the 3 weeks consecutively. If you wanted another Thanksgiving week, then call the following week as suggested, cancel the first week and book another Thanksgiving week. Hey, even do it again the next week to end up with 3 Thanksgiving weeks. Ymmv. Cheers.
 

coffeeman

newbie
Joined
Nov 3, 2008
Messages
50
Reaction score
0
Points
167
Location
connecticut
My wife called 10am nov 17 fri-fri checkin for ocean pointe and had no problem that's a pretty high demand place/week and we go every thanksgiving with no problems
 

Oscar923

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2017
Messages
52
Reaction score
26
Points
129
Thanksgiving in the desert is pretty popular. Highest demand week in season by far.
Could anyone provide any insights about trading into the Palm Desert resorts for the Thanksgiving week? I am just curious what kind of trading power is required to get a Thanksgiving week at one of the 4 resorts. I did it for 2018 with my 2-bedroom Shadow Ridge unit (June week, so same resort but different check-in date; I own Shadow Ridge Gold season). But before I made my reservation through II, I checked to see if I could get the exchange with just 1 bedroom, and I couldn't. So a 2-bedroom for a 2-bedroom in my case.
What if I exchanged into a Palm Desert resort with another Marriott (e.g., Grand Chateau) week? Would 1-bedroom be adequate if I have a high demand week from a high demand resort? Please share your experience. I just want to learn more so that I can make informed decisions in the future if I acquire more Marriott weeks. Thanks.
 
Last edited:

Saintsfanfl

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Messages
8,844
Reaction score
630
Points
399
Location
Central Florida
Might even be better to call two weeks before the 13 month release date, and book the 3 weeks consecutively. If you wanted another Thanksgiving week, then call the following week as suggested, cancel the first week and book another Thanksgiving week. Hey, even do it again the next week to end up with 3 Thanksgiving weeks. Ymmv. Cheers.

You could, but for Thanksgiving week it is usually overkill to go 13+2 or more.
 

Saintsfanfl

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Messages
8,844
Reaction score
630
Points
399
Location
Central Florida
Could anyone provide any insights about trading into the Palm Desert resorts for the Thanksgiving week? I am just curious what kind of trading power is required to get a Thanksgiving week at one of the 4 resorts. I did it for 2018 with my 2-bedroom Shadow Ridge unit (June week, so same resort but different check-in date; I owned Shadow Ridge Gold season). But before I made my reservation through II, I checked to see if I could get the exchange with just 1 bedroom, and I couldn't. So a 2-bedroom for a 2-bedroom in my case.
What if I exchanged into a Palm Desert resort with another Marriott (e.g., Grand Chateau) week? Would 1-bedroom be adequate if I have a high demand week from a high demand resort? Please share your experience. I just want to learn more so that I can make informed decisions in the future if I acquire more Marriott weeks. Thanks.

I am surprised you could not do it with the 1BR. My experience is that what you can get with the 2BR you can get with the 1BR. The exception is really low demand weeks and it is possible June in Palm Desert is considerably lower than Nov.
 

Oscar923

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2017
Messages
52
Reaction score
26
Points
129
I am surprised you could not do it with the 1BR. My experience is that what you can get with the 2BR you can get with the 1BR. The exception is really low demand weeks and it is possible June in Palm Desert is considerably lower than Nov.
If I could get a 2-bedroom thanksgiving week with a 1-bedroom June week from the same resort (shadow ridge), I will be not only upgrading the room size, but also upgrading in terms of TDI. That sounds too good to be true (and it didn’t happen for me in my case.). But it’s good to know if a 1-bedroom from another resort (may be from platinum season) could trade into a 2-bedroom palm desert thanksgiving week. That would be a good indication of the value of Marriott weeks.
 

VacationForever

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2010
Messages
16,199
Reaction score
10,611
Points
1,048
Location
Somewhere Out There
If I could get a 2-bedroom thanksgiving week with a 1-bedroom June week from the same resort (shadow ridge), I will be not only upgrading the room size, but also upgrading in terms of TDI. That sounds too good to be true (and it didn’t happen for me in my case.). But it’s good to know if a 1-bedroom from another resort (may be from platinum season) could trade into a 2-bedroom palm desert thanksgiving week. That would be a good indication of the value of Marriott weeks.

It also depends on what other units are put into ongoing exchange requests which have higher trading power or larger unit than what you have deposited in your exchange request.

As an example, I have used my MDS (Desert Springs I) red season studio and put in as ongoing exchange for MKO (Ko Olina) about 5 months before the stay and the same night it was matched to a 2BR (Ocean View). If there were other units that were larger or higher trading power than mine, then my request would not have been matched.
 
Top