Summer Bay Resort a Sink Hole [merged]

[simpsontruckdriver]

Sinkholes are not really permanent. Engineers can fill it in, and most likely, that ends the sinkhole.

TS

 

[PigsDad]

Summer Bay is a huge, mega-resort. Having a single building - or even 3 or 4 - out of service isn't going to impact things unless it is a prime prime Holiday period like Christmas. They just have too much inventory for 36 units to throw things off.

The article I read said this affects 47 of the 900 units at the resort. If that is accurate, then it only affects 5% of the units. I don't think there will be too many reservations that have to be cancelled unless they are running >95% occupancy (which is doubtful).

Heck, even if they never rebuild that building I'm sure there are probably more than 5% of the unit-weeks at the resort that are either unsold or in foreclosure. Maybe this is a way for the HOA to reduce the number of non-paying weeks!

Kurt

 

[billymach4]

Management

Who is the developer / Management of this resort? Does it trade in II?

 

[Carol C]

Need some quick advice. I can grab a 2 bedroom units at Polynesian Isles Resort (not Disney) or at Royal Palms for our same check in date in December. Should I call and have RCI switch our exchange to one of those resorts or wait to see how much of Summer Bay is going to be effected. If switching which of the 2 would be best for 2 senior adults? Afraid that if we wait to long everything will be taken.

Suzanne

Royal Palms is a Marriott. So is Sabal Palms. Access to great pools at Marriott included w/those timeshare stays.

 

[suzanne]

We went with the Polynesian Resort. Based on DH's health and our ages it seemed to be a better fit for us. When I called RCI to make the switch, she said they were receiving calls requesting people be moved to other properties. She said that they were notifying people of their options starting with those whose exchanges were coming up in next week or two first and as they learned more about the problem they would decide on what they can or will do for other exchanges. Since I had just made the exchange last Thursday, I was still under my 15 day grace period to cancel or change my exchange without a penalty so she took care of it for me. She did however charge me $10.00 for the call as per their policy now on calling and using a rep instead of doing it myself online. :annoyed:

Suzanne

 

[sb2313]

My inlaws own a week deeded in building 105, which according to an article here, is condemned too. Thoughts on what will happen?
http://www.menafn.com/b1407b55-aeba...Sinkhole-collapses-Disneyarea-resort?src=main

 

[Carol C]

It was the lead story on NBC evening news. Also covered on CBS evening news. They say that the US Geologic Survey dept is going to examine the area and also develop a sinkhole map of Florida. Here's a NY Times article with a good photo: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/13/us/sinkhole-opens-under-florida-resort.html?_r=0 and this one is good: http://www.firstcoastnews.com/topst...Florida-geologists-to-map-state-for-sinkholes

 

[Talent312]

Heck, even if they never rebuild that building I'm sure there are probably more than 5% of the unit-weeks at the resort that are either unsold or in foreclosure. Maybe this is a way for the HOA to reduce the number of non-paying weeks!

It's also a great way to dispose of an unwanted TS... :ignore:

 

[Carol C]

It is actually not the swamp/wetlands that cause the sinkholes, otherwise you would see this happening in Southern Louisiana. The sinkholes are caused by the dissolving of the thick limestone layer that forms the base of the land. Florida has a massive amount of connected underwater caverns. I believe they have the largest caves in the country, but they are under water.

She didn't say that sinkholes are caused by swamp/wetlands. She's saying that tampering with the natural order of swamps/wetlands/mangroves etc over time can cause damage to human-built structures. I agree, because you see everywhere where forests, mangroves and other natural areas are destroyed, there's no natural buffer of thirsty vegetation to take up water from heavy rains. The shallow-rooted ornamental trees and shrubs around FL timeshare resorts are not enough to suck up excess rain like they've had in FL this spring and summer. If there's alot of concrete all around, rainwater will still find a way to go below ground...often in one concentrated area, resulting perhaps in an expanding sinkhole in the limestone bed below the sand and topsoil. The sinkholes aka caverns are called "cenotes" in Mexico and they are also everywhere. These are natural formations. They aren't a "problem" until man builds atop that geologically sensitive terrain.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

She didn't say that sinkholes are caused by swamp/wetlands. She's saying that tampering with the natural order of swamps/wetlands/mangroves etc over time can cause damage to human-built structures. I agree, because you see everywhere where forests, mangroves and other natural areas are destroyed, there's no natural buffer of thirsty vegetation to take up water from heavy rains. The shallow-rooted ornamental trees and shrubs around FL timeshare resorts are not enough to suck up excess rain like they've had in FL this spring and summer. If there's alot of concrete all around, rainwater will still find a way to go below ground...often in one concentrated area, resulting perhaps in an expanding sinkhole in the limestone bed below the sand and topsoil. The sinkholes aka caverns are called "cenotes" in Mexico and they are also everywhere. These are natural formations. They aren't a "problem" until man builds atop that geologically sensitive terrain.

I do not disagree. Sinkholes are a natural phenomenon that have been occurring for thousands of years. Man has definitely increased the occurrences though. In Florida the ground water pumping followed by the heavy rain accelerates the dissolving of the limestone. The modification of the natural water drainage systems further compound the problem because as you mention, the water drainage may concentrate in one area .

 

[bogey21]

I know with Katrina and at least one of the timeshares in New Orleans the owners had to sit tight and eat annual maintenance fees as well as pay a special assessment while the building was unoccupied. Hopefully in this case it is spread across all the owners within that HOA.

I used to own at two Resorts that were heavily damaged by hurricanes (Chateau Le Grand in Biloxi, MS and Peregrine West of Galveston, TX). In both cases usage was interrupted for a year or so while the Resorts were put back together but in neither case was there a Special Assessment.

George

 

[amycurl]

Thanks, Carol, for making my point better than I did.

 

[TUGBrian]

well at least not all the timeshare employees are sales weasels!

http://www.wtsp.com/news/article/329975/250/Sinkhole-Update-Humble-hero-helped-families-to-safety

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Looks like the HOA has already announced intentions to rebuild in another spot.

 

[simpsontruckdriver]

An Orlando radio station is offering to give the security guard a jug of handmade ice cream. I think 99% of resort employees are great people, but it is the Sales Weasels who make the industry look bad.

TS

 

[timeos2]

An Orlando radio station is offering to give the security guard a jug of handmade ice cream. I think 99% of resort employees are great people, but it is the Sales Weasels who make the industry look bad.

TS

The resort employees and the sales snakes are usually two unrelated groups even if the Developer still controls both. Very few (Wastegate comes to mind) have spill over from the sales to operations. Many times even the operations people have no use for the often arrogant sales agents. Completely different in attitude and reasons for working there. No surprise that an employee of the resort would act so professionally. The sales weasels would have been more worried about getting their leased BMW's out of harms way.

 

[simpsontruckdriver]

UPDATE
Summer Bay owners/renters meet with the management, but to them, are not getting anywhere.

TS

 

[simpsontruckdriver]

Summer Bay will not reimburse owners for anything lost into the sinkhole. Doesn't matter, if you lost a $3000 camera, a $2000 laptop or a $500 tablet, and clothes, you get NOTHING from them.

TS

 

[PigsDad]

Summer Bay will not reimburse owners for anything lost into the sinkhole. Doesn't matter, if you lost a $3000 camera, a $2000 laptop or a $500 tablet, and clothes, you get NOTHING from them.

TS

It sounds like this is an insurance issue, and is falling under an "act of god" clause to let them weasle out of paying for anything. Looks like Summer Bay has the law on their side as well for not being responsible for personal losses.

But I just have to say, who travels with $10K of electronics on vacation? Seems like they are taking unnecessary risks, as there are plenty of other ways those valuables could have been damaged, stolen, lost, etc. while on vacation.

Kurt

 

[Sea Six]

What's your car worth?

 

[PigsDad]

What's your car worth?

I don't keep my car in the condo.

 

[Sea Six]

Ever see a car in a sinkhole? They don't just happen under buildings.

If your car ended up in a sinkhole, would your insurance cover it?

 

[PigsDad]

Ever see a car in a sinkhole? They don't just happen under buildings.

If your car ended up in a sinkhole, would your insurance cover it?

How does bringing a car (a necessity if you are driving to the resort) compare to bringing $10K in electronics on vacation (unnecessary in most cases)?

And if my insurance didn't cover my car falling into a sinkhole, why would I expect the resort to cover my loss?

People are just too sue-happy, always looking for someone else to blame, when sometimes it is just no one's fault. For the person that lost $10K of electronics in what can only be described as a natural disaster, I don't think the resort had a responsibility to cover their loss. The lesson here is if you choose to bring that many unnecessary valuables on vacation, realize the risk you are taking, be it natural disaster, lost luggage, theft, etc.

Kurt

 

[SMHarman]

But I just have to say, who travels with $10K of electronics on vacation? Seems like they are taking unnecessary risks, as there are plenty of other ways those valuables could have been damaged, stolen, lost, etc. while on vacation.

Kurt

Let's see, as someone who likes to take photos, I bring my macbook air to look at them $2k
My Canon EOS 6D $2k
A couple of pieces of L glass for that at $1500 each.
Plus flash, filters and stuff, another $500.
Right there I am at $7500.
Now add the familys collection of iPads and iPhones (remember replacement cost is $600 not the $199 you paid ATT upfront) and you are there.

 

[dioxide45]

How does bringing a car (a necessity if you are driving to the resort) compare to bringing $10K in electronics on vacation (unnecessary in most cases)?

And if my insurance didn't cover my car falling into a sinkhole, why would I expect the resort to cover my loss?

People are just too sue-happy, always looking for someone else to blame, when sometimes it is just no one's fault. For the person that lost $10K of electronics in what can only be described as a natural disaster, I don't think the resort had a responsibility to cover their loss. The lesson here is if you choose to bring that many unnecessary valuables on vacation, realize the risk you are taking, be it natural disaster, lost luggage, theft, etc.

Kurt

Isn't this what insurance is for? Shouldn't the resort be carrying a policy to protect occupants and their belongings? The problem is under many states hospitality laws, the resorts have very little liability for personal belongings and timeshares fall under hotel/hospitality, not residences.

Though if someone is carrying $10,000 in cameras and personal electronics, they should probably have their own policy covering such items and not relying on others to make sure their items are covered.