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Still the happiest place on earth ... not in my experience.

Talent312

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Waking up at 6:45am to book fast passes for the better rides is a "nice" innovation.
At least they haven't started charging to beat the queue like the other parks, yet.
.
 

bbodb1

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Domestic attendance and per-guest spending continue to grow. For every person who decides they won't go back, there appears to be at least one person to take their place.

But the point that should concern fans of WDW is - how long is that trend sustainable? And what happens when attendance falls off?
The point here is that lust for every dollar now may be killing the golden goose...

Also, what would Walt think if he knew his creation was out of financial reach of a majority of Americans?
 

bnoble

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Every change they make, every price that goes up, brings up the same refrain: "How long can this go on?"

So far, so good. Is there a breaking point? Sure. But Disney is fanatical about measuring guest experience and attitude, and this is not their first trip around the Monopoly board. If I were a betting man, my money would be on: "They know more about what they are doing than the armchair CEOs."

And I get that people like to play WWWT (What Would Walt Think). But, if you've ever read a credible biography of the man, you'd know that the Kind Old Uncle Walt persona was just that. This is a guy who managed to create his very own governmental agency to support WDW's planning and construction.
 

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So far, so good. Is there a breaking point? Sure. But Disney is fanatical about measuring guest experience and attitude, and this is not their first trip around the Monopoly board. If I were a betting man, my money would be on: "They know more about what they are doing than the armchair CEOs."
I think you are on point here.

I think as long as they keep buying/nurturing popular franchises, the demand will remain.
 

rickandcindy23

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I have met many people from England who love Disney World and go every year, even though they have to fly to Orlando to get there. They say it's very inexpensive for their families. Several families have told us that they take their kids out of school to avoid the heat in Orlando. I get that. They take a trip and get annual passes, and then take the second trip at the end of those annual passes. Two trips.

Annual passes are a bargain, if you love Disney. Ours expire in a few days and won't be renewed anytime soon.

One English family told us how great their value was at Universal Studios, while staying at the Portofino Hotel. It was only $360 per night for their 7 nights! That was an interesting conversation. I have stayed at the Loew's Royal Pacific Hotel, and I thought it was very average for the $300 per night price tag, but I understand that the benefits of staying on-site are pretty amazing, after doing it once ourselves. We literally walked on every ride and didn't have to wait. We rode everything in the park by 2 PM.

That is something Disney has not done for its hotel guests. I can see Disney doing that at some point, raising their hotel prices to allow extra-wealthy people those privileges. That would be annoying, but people don't seem to mind at Universal that we skipped all lines.
 

rickandcindy23

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I should have also said that taking sandwiches into the park is something we as a family decided to do to save money. It really saves a lot of money, too, and since I don't eat sandwiches at home (too many carbs in the bread), I enjoyed them much more than a Disney burger for $12.

The food at Disney is not good. LeCellier is the only restaurant we liked, and the prices are outrageous now.

We had friends who recommended the fish and chips at Rose and Crown, so we went last month. It was not good. I would rather eat Fish and Chips at Universal Studios in Finnegan's, which is by Revenge of the Mummy. It tastes much better, the quantity is better, the service is better, and it's cheaper. It's just a nice place to stop and relax a while. We love that place. The shepherd's pie is also good.
 

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I wonder how many people are risking their fiscal stability for a few days at WDW.

However, couldn't that be said about many things in life that bring happiness. I'm sure there are many that say that about the timeshare industry in fact. We each must make our choices in life.

We are not guaranteed a future. Sometimes, living in the moment is crucial to leading a happy life.

"What if you wake up some day and you’re 65, or 75, and you never got your memoir or novel written; or you didn’t go swimming in warm pools and oceans all those years because your thighs were jiggly and you had a nice big comfortable tummy; and you were just so strung out on perfectionism and people-pleasing that you forgot to have a big, juicy, creative life of imagination and radical silliness and staring off into space like when you were a kid? It’s going to break your heart. Don’t let this happen."

American novelist Anne Lamott
 

mdurette

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The mouse is also a master of making sure you stay on his turf too. From the moment you land at MCO until the moment you fly away he has all your transportation covered. MCO is usually so cheap to rent a car from that I would normally get one. But, now $24 a night to park at DVC on top of the rental expense, gas, tolls etc. He's got me, I'm not renting this next trip.

But, that doesn't mean I'm doing my grocery shopping on his turf! Looking like Walmart delivery or Walmart pick up via a taxi will be the way to go.
 

bizaro86

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Despite all the costly expansions, Disney Parks and Resorts reported a $4.5 billion operating profit for the 2018 fiscal year. That's over 100% increase from 2013. So, if it is steadily profiting, why are Disney Parks becoming so expensive?

The costly expansions don't come off before the operating profit. Disney Parks and resorts earned $4.5 billion in operating profit last year. However, they spent $3.2 billion in capital expenditures on everything from Star Wars Land to cruise ships etc. The $4.5 billion also doesn't include interest they're paying on money used to build the current theme parks. More than 70% of the profit from the parks goes back into expansions, and isn't available for shareholders.

For all the high prices, Disney Parks and Resorts isn't that profitable by most standards. Over the years, Disney has invested just over $60 billion in the parks and resorts segment (that includes everything, land, cruise ships, attractions, etc). To earn $4.5 billion in one year for that segment is only a 7.5% return on that investment. And that is in a record-breaking, two-price-raises year. They have also agreed to phase in a wage increase for staff, which will offset a significant portion of the price increases in the future.

Disney parks are expensive, but they are amazing. The amazing part makes them expensive to build and run, so the prices need to be high to keep them going. The theme park in my home city is $40 for an annual pass. I buy it, but don't particularly consider it better value than Disney pricing - it's just less for less.
 

Big Matt

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By nature a lot of us on these boards are cheap. This is why we ended up here. We are all trying to figure out how to get over on the systems. Disney is smarter than us and got rid of a lot of the loopholes. Like others, I leveraged the heck out of the 10 day non-expire with the park hopper. We would get three vacations out of that, Orlando is an easy trade and flights from DC are low. I figured that since our kids are now out of the house (mostly) we could go in the fall when it's slow, but what people don't understand about their new model is that it's designed to make every time of the year "busy". Even if the parks aren't as packed as during peak times they stagger opening of some rides forcing you to use up more hours. They want you to come back tomorrow just to finish. The last loophole was the annual passes. If you can do three weeks in the same 365 days it was a good deal at about $450 per ticket. Do the math on the new prices and guess what.....it's almost $60 per day per person. Not a good deal any more.

The only good deal is when you go during a shoulder season, stay in the park, and buy the meal plan, but that forces you to buy everything there. Not for everyone. The real key is to own Disney points. That gives you a discount off of the season passes and food. Plus you get extra magic hours.

Go compare what a top end pass to Busch Gardens in Williamsburg gets you. Free admission and parking at all 11 parks (Busch Gardens Tampa/Williamsburg, all the Seaworld parks, the associated water parks, and Sesame Place), 15% food and shopping discounts, three free passes, ride again privileges. Price is: $350 bucks.

By the way for the folks who talked about how much it cost in 1972, that was 47 years ago. You could buy a good car for $3000 and a 4 bedroom house for about $35,000. Gas was 36 cents per gallon. 23 Skiddoo! I was nine.
 

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By the way for the folks who talked about how much it cost in 1972, that was 47 years ago. You could buy a good car for $3000 and a 4 bedroom house for about $35,000. Gas was 36 cents per gallon. 23 Skiddoo! I was nine.
And gross annual pay was $10,000 for a good job.
 

bluehende

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By the way for the folks who talked about how much it cost in 1972, that was 47 years ago. You could buy a good car for $3000 and a 4 bedroom house for about $35,000. Gas was 36 cents per gallon. 23 Skiddoo! I was nine.


Here is a comparison from travel and leisure.


In 1971, a one-day pass to the mouse house would set you back $3.50 (a little over $20, accounting for inflation), according to a new report by GoBankingRate. Today, that same ticket will cost visitors a whopping $115.
 

DrQ

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Here is a comparison from travel and leisure.


In 1971, a one-day pass to the mouse house would set you back $3.50 (a little over $20, accounting for inflation), according to a new report by GoBankingRate. Today, that same ticket will cost visitors a whopping $115.
Yeah, but then you had to buy tickets for the rides, A, B, C, D & E. Was that admission or admission and a book of tickets?
 

bluehende

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Yeah, but then you had to buy tickets for the rides, A, B, C, D & E. Was that admission or admission and a book of tickets?
\
It was admission and a book of tickets. Not completely the equivalent of today's ticket. I remember needing to buy a couple more tickets the day we were there. We also had a few tickets left from the junk rides. I still have the book somewhere.
 
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DrQ

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\
It was admission and a book of tickets. Not completely the equivalent of today's ticket. I remember needing to buy a couple more tickets the day we were there. We also had a few tickets left from the junk rides. I still have the book somewhere.
Cool! I'm assuming the $115 figure is just for the Magic Kingdom pass?
 

TravelTime

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As a DVC member, I bought a platinum annual pass for about $550 per person. To stay in 1 bedrooms, I am paying $200 to $350 per night on average for the seasons and views categories I tend to travel in. If I tried to maximize my trips by traveling in the lowest season or staying in studios or staying in the cheaper DVC resorts, it would be even cheaper. I think the cost as a DVC member is very reasonable to stay at the deluxe resorts in one bedrooms. I think the Fast Passes are incredible and easy to use. I was able to make last minute fast pass adjustments even the day of the rides. We were at WDW last August. We never had to wait more than 10 minutes for a ride using fast passes. I pre-booked dining but I was also able to make some last minute adjustments. I think Disney’s current system is great. Gone are the days of 3-4 hour lines when they used paper tickets. It was cheap back then but the long lines and crowded parking kept me away. It is so easy and pleasurable when you’re staying on site at a big Deluxe 1 bedroom and use Disney transportation and Fast Passes as well as pre-book dining. Disney is not perfect and we had some hiccups but overall, it is nothing like the past. The ticket prices are expensive, especially if you buy a day pass, but equivalent (or less) than most concert or football tickets. This thread is sounding like a long rant. It is very repetitive since everytime anything about Disney is posted, I see the same posts. Deja vu...ground hog day...insanity...whatever you want to call it. I too remember the days of ticket books. My first Disney trip was in 1971 (age 5 or 6). My family went 3 times year every year since it opened. I loved Disney but dreaded the waits and hassle of getting in and out of the park. It would take hours extra to deal with all the hassles so I stopped going as an adult until last year. I was amazed. It is like a different place now. It is beautiful and glamorous with all the fancy resorts and nice restaurants. Now it is easy peasy but a bit more expensive in today’s dollars. Also the parks, rides and shows are much more advanced that 40+ years ago. The shows are wonderful. It makes for a nice adults only vacation now.
 
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bluehende

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Here are the E ticket rides in 1973.

In 1973, your E options were:
It's a small world
20k leagues under the sea
Country Bear Jamboree
Jungle Cruise
Hall of Presidents
Haunted Mansion
 
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Luanne

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I started going to Disneyland the year it opened. It was only about an hour from us, we had family in Anaheim (we could go there for breaks), and we loved it. It's not so much the price that bothers me these days, it is how crowded it's gotten. It's not enjoyable [to me] to have to plan the day out to the nano second and have to wait hours for a ride or attraction.
 

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As a DVC member, I bought a platinum annual pass for about $550 per person. To stay in 1 bedrooms, I am paying $200 to $350 per night on average for the seasons and views categories I tend to travel in. If I tried to maximize my trips by traveling in the lowest season or staying in studios or staying in the cheaper DVC resorts, it would be even cheaper. I think the cost as a DVC member is very reasonable to stay at the deluxe resorts in one bedrooms. I think the Fast Passes are incredible and easy to use. I was able to make last minute fast pass adjustments even the day of the rides. We were at WDW last August. We never had to wait more than 10 minutes for a ride using fast passes. I pre-booked dining but I was also able to make some last minute adjustments. I think Disney’s current system is great. Gone are the days of 3-4 hour lines when they used paper tickets. It was cheap back then but the long lines and crowded parking kept me away. It is so easy and pleasurable when you’restaying on site at a big Deluxe 1 bedroom and use Disney transportation and Fast Passes as well as pre-book dining. Disney is not perfect and we had some hiccups but overall, it is nothing like the past. The ticket prices are expensive, especially if you buy a day pass, but equivalent (or less) than most concert or football tickets. This thread is sounding like a long rant. It is very repetitive since everytime anything about Disney is posted, I see the same posts. Deja vu...ground hog day...insanity...whatever you want to call it. I too remember the days of ticket books. My first Disney trip was in 1971. I loved Disney but dreaded the waits and hassle of getting in and out of the park. It would take hours extra to deal with all the hassles. Now it is easy peasy but a bit more expensive in today’s dollars.
I will give you the the journalist slanted the article by choosing the worst case ticketing scenario, and it is hard to compare since the park has grown.

But from my title, I have seen a lot of miserable people in the park paying homage to the mouse.
 

TravelTime

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Waking up at 6:45am to book fast passes for the better rides is a "nice" innovation.
At least they haven't started charging to beat the queue like the other parks, yet.
.

You do not need to wake up at 6:45 am to book fast passes. I booked them very easily and changed them many times before my visit. I got everything I wanted including all the “hot” rides.
 

TravelTime

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I will give you the the journalist slanted the article by choosing the worst case ticketing scenario, and it is hard to compare since the park has grown.

But from my title, I have seen a lot of miserable people in the park paying homage to the mouse.

They were probably forced to go and are mouse haters. LOL
 

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Yeah, but then you had to buy tickets for the rides, A, B, C, D & E. Was that admission or admission and a book of tickets?

$3.50 was just the cost of admission.
 

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Here are the E ticket rides in 1973.

In 1973, your E options were:
It's a small world
20k leagues under the sea
Country Bear Jamboree
Jungle Cruise
Hall of Presidents
Haunted Mansion
Isn't that now ranked up with waterboarding? [JK]

I still love the Haunted Mansion! (Especially on a humid FL day)
 

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By nature a lot of us on these boards are cheap. This is why we ended up here. We are all trying to figure out how to get over on the systems. Disney is smarter than us and got rid of a lot of the loopholes. Like others, I leveraged the heck out of the 10 day non-expire with the park hopper. We would get three vacations out of that, Orlando is an easy trade and flights from DC are low. I figured that since our kids are now out of the house (mostly) we could go in the fall when it's slow, but what people don't understand about their new model is that it's designed to make every time of the year "busy". Even if the parks aren't as packed as during peak times they stagger opening of some rides forcing you to use up more hours. They want you to come back tomorrow just to finish. The last loophole was the annual passes. If you can do three weeks in the same 365 days it was a good deal at about $450 per ticket. Do the math on the new prices and guess what.....it's almost $60 per day per person. Not a good deal any more.

The only good deal is when you go during a shoulder season, stay in the park, and buy the meal plan, but that forces you to buy everything there. Not for everyone. The real key is to own Disney points. That gives you a discount off of the season passes and food. Plus you get extra magic hours.

Go compare what a top end pass to Busch Gardens in Williamsburg gets you. Free admission and parking at all 11 parks (Busch Gardens Tampa/Williamsburg, all the Seaworld parks, the associated water parks, and Sesame Place), 15% food and shopping discounts, three free passes, ride again privileges. Price is: $350 bucks.

By the way for the folks who talked about how much it cost in 1972, that was 47 years ago. You could buy a good car for $3000 and a 4 bedroom house for about $35,000. Gas was 36 cents per gallon. 23 Skiddoo! I was nine.

In 2000 in Miami, you could buy a luxury oceanview condo in the best buildings in Miami Beach for $250,000. Now they start at at least $2 million. And that is in just 19 years. If we go back to 1971, middle class houses were about $10,000 in Miami (that is about what my family members paid for their first homes around that time). Miami is super inflated now because it is fashionable. Same thing with Disney. The Mouse has “grown up” since 1971.
 

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