Sticky - Know Your Rights Of Rescission Before Attending A Mexican Timeshare Presentation

[TacoTerry]

What to do

My my at last some activity. Howard what you ask is certainly warranted, but really what to do ? Couldn't the TUG form an entity like they have for resales etc but in the form of legal help. Not like G & G I am sure a legitimate avenue where a fee was payable when service was successful would be in everyone's interest.

Please give your views.

Barbara

Hi gang, sorry to come in on this discussion at such a late time. I have been dealing with a life changing death in my family and now I am getting back into the swing of things. Thank you BarbieB for the private heads-up message about this thread and the information coming out on our favorite Mexican law firm.
As far as what to do about the lies and deceit coming from salespeople at any timeshare presentation, I think the link that Scammedtoo put up for "mescam" is really a good place to get started. It's packed full of good info and covers a lot of different angles to attack the actual resort/timeshare group and kick them where it really hurts. Their bottom line. Salespeople come and go, the resorts are the ones we need to go after for our money, they are the ones who have the power and the checkbook!

A final note on G&G, I contacted their office and asked them for a response to the info being put out on this thread. I wanted to see what they had to say. My e-mail back stated, "I can assure you that we do not charge any money upfront for our service." Still singing that same song. I asked them to come on this site and to honestly answer the questions being asked, They know this site and this thread because they have posted here before. I gave them the address anyway just to be sure. Sooo, they haven't posted any denials or any responses. Silence speaks volumes!
I am happy the truth has come out about these vampires and sad to see my exit strategy disappear into the wind. Time for my 3rd plan of attack.

 

[DeniseM]

Since G&G recently denied charging an upfront fee right here on TUG, I don't know what they could possibly post to defend their position now - since there is documentation (a contract showing that they do indeed charge an upfront fee) linked in this thread.

 

[barbiebonita]

I like this image

It didn't work.

 

[Passepartout]

It didn't work.

You have to first put the picture on a hosting service, like www.Photobucket.com The complete instructions are in a sticky at the top of the Lounge forum. Jim

 

[flexible]

Mexican sales people are infamous for:

1) Telling people verbally that they can't rescind because of some made up nonsense.
2) Not including the rescission Doc. in the sales paperwork.
3) Asking people to sign a separate (illegal) document waiving their right to rescind.

and 4) Putting AI All Inclusive Bands on people within MINUTES of signing a new timeshare contract OR upgrading an existing timeshare contract WITHOUT telling them IF they rescind in 5 days they have to PAY for the AI and any other benefits.

We met some owners at Velas while we were there. They owned a STUDIO contract and upgraded to a one bedroom. When the realized people like us would be more than happy to sell our one bedroom units for next to nothing, they decided to rescind. Then they were upset to pay for the 5 days of AI from Velas.

They rescinded an upgrade to a one bedroom with less than 15 years remaining at a cost of OVER $10,000 or $15,000. I can't remember the exact cost. Then they came to us. We offered one of our one bedroom contracts for 2 weeks annually for about $200 plus the transfer fee of a about $100. It was late and even though I told them we are up early and in bed early they called us AFTER we were in bed and I gave in letting them waste our time.

They rescinded with Velas the next day. They never even telephoned us or left a message until we happen to see them in the swimming pool days later. I am happier that we didn't sell them our contract because I think they are rude. I am sure they do NOT think they are rude.

But it constantly amazes me that someone will pay 10-15K at a resort for an upgrade then tell someone they will buy their contract for $200 but not follow up.

That is why I gave three timeshare RTU back to resorts this season because it is easier to let a resort have a high demand fixed week or nice unit then to sell it to a stranger.

 

[barbiebonita]

Easier links

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I hope this time it works.
The links are what Jane and Miguel Garcia sent.

Barbara

 

[barbiebonita]

The G & G contract. Page 1

Much easier to read.

 

[barbiebonita]

G & G contract Page 2

Thanks for all the help.

Barbara

 

[DeniseM]

Barbara - Do you know what date that contract was received?

 

[barbiebonita]

The Contract

The contract is unsigned and undated.
Sorry. It must be recent. Jane was very angry when she posted on the complaints board.

Barbara

 

[barbiebonita]

The Offices

Denise I just did the google map thing and it is dated 2010, I do not know how often google updates these pictures.

Barbara

 

[Howardfox]

wait for it!

I bet Gonzalez and Gonzalez will come back and try to make out it's an out of date contract...! But I read the Garcia story too and it says they purchased only a couple of months ago, so that would mean the contract must be an up-to-date proposal.

Barbie & Jim,
Thanks for your response to my comment [also thanks B for that copy of the contract which is certainly a lot easier on the eye!].
I agree with Jim, the TUG already seems to be doing a whole lot and we can't ask for the moon. But if the G & G website is saying something patently untrue and we can't tackle it ourselves as a consumer group, isn't it still a breach of law in any country, or some kind of fraud that the authorities would pursue?

 

[hellolani]

my contract

Hi peeps,

I went the route of contacting G&G / Mexican Timeshare Solutions and was in communication with them when my letter writing to Raintree worked out for me, so I didn't wind up going that route. I did receive a contract from them which I didn't sign or return dated by my email on February 7, 2011. There is no request for a retainer on it. It states that their fee to cancel my contract is $1500 USD and that any monies they are able to get returned to us, their portion would be 25%. I've still got a pdf copy of it and I'm happy to email it to anyone who would like to see it but I'm not going to go through the trouble of getting it onto photobucket.

My impression was that they are able to help you cancel a relatively new contract (post rescission period but pre first use) so that you aren't on the hook for MFs for future, which for us would not have been a bad option in the end if our own efforts didn't work out. We had high MFs and it would have been a lot of work to try to give our TS away per Denise's advice.

I in the end have no dealings with them beyond a few conversations, so this is definitely not a defense, but I hope this additional info is useful. I still haven't seen anyone post a review of their services here who has used them.

 

[pjrose]

But it constantly amazes me that someone will pay 10-15K at a resort for an upgrade then tell someone they will buy their contract for $200 but not follow up.

That is why I gave three timeshare RTU back to resorts this season because it is easier to let a resort have a high demand fixed week or nice unit then to sell it to a stranger.

My guess is that $200 for something that is supposedly worth 10-15K sounds like a scam or at least not real: Why would an individual sell it for $200? What is their recourse or guarantee with an individual they met at the pool? Buying something that inexpensively seems like an example that "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably isn't true".

 

[Howardfox]

Hellolani - They're not calling it a "retainer", but doesn't this $1500 amount to an upfront fee? Are they honestly implying no refund no fee?

All lawyers can do is quote the law and apply legal rights. So what pressure could they bring to bear on resorts to achieve this, anyway, if the contracts are legally binding, as Siesta has said?

Why would G&G set out on the work without having a strong legal basis on which they could be confident of winning the dispute? I bet there's a catch!

 

[hellolani]

G&G contract

$1500 was to be paid upon my receiving confirmation that the contract was cancelled, and no other fee was requested up front. I have no stake in this, I just like people to have accurate info and I have a contract which is recent and has terms different from the one posted.

 

[TacoTerry]

Hellolani - They're not calling it a "retainer", but doesn't this $1500 amount to an upfront fee? Are they honestly implying no refund no fee?

All lawyers can do is quote the law and apply legal rights. So what pressure could they bring to bear on resorts to achieve this, anyway, if the contracts are legally binding, as Siesta has said?

Why would G&G set out on the work without having a strong legal basis on which they could be confident of winning the dispute? I bet there's a catch!

Could the different contract fees be because there are two different kinds of legal action going on here? Our Spanish friends wanted their money back completely and Hellolani wanted to cancel the contract and walk away from the whole mess without getting their money back. So the retainer fee for a tough case and a flat fee for an easier cancellation case.
What happens to the week(s) of cancelled time sharing in the easier case? Does G&G get a percentage of the resale from the Krystal or the Mayan or whoever? Could that be the catch we are looking for? Siesta does this make any kind of sense to you?

 

[Howardfox]

clause 6E

Maybe they do have a range of contracts/fees according to the case but if Siesta is right and the resorts' legal standpoint is safe, what pressure can G&G or any lawyer bring to bear on them? I am just curious at what stage engaging lawyers at hefty fees and percentages truly becomes necessary. What legal arguments could they use which we can't use? Once we know our rights, can't we go it alone in terms of negotiation? I was annoyed my daughter didn't try that as a first step.

Hellolani - did the contract you got include the "gagging order" clause, like at 6E on this one? Maybe that's why we've not heard from anyone who has actually signed up with G&G.

Siesta - is a gagging order clause standard practice, please?

 

[barbiebonita]

That must be it.

Howard that makes complete sense, no wonder no one has responded who is a client of theirs .

Barbara

 

[hellolani]

clause 6

My contract's clause 6 only has 3 subpoints to it, matching letters B, C and D on the contract above. The points corresponding to letters A and E are not on my copy. No gag order.

Anyone who wants a copy for comparison, PM me your email address and I'll send it to you, or alternatively, anyone who is willing to get it uploaded to photobucket or some other image hosting site and link it in here, please let me know if you are able to help by PM and I'll send it to you.

My initial request to G&G was refund plus cancellation. Their response was cancellation for sure, refund unlikely but we'll try. No payment was requested nor required until evidence of resolution was produced for us. This is actually also explicitly stated in the contract.

The only concern we had upon close reading of the contract was the last clause, indicating that the contract would be governed exclusively by the laws of Jalisco, Mexico, meaning that if we had a problem with them or them with us, we'd have to try the case in Mexico, which is clearly to their own advantage. That said, we'd become attuned to look for that clause as it was highlighted to us as being a huge disadvantage from our original contract with Raintree.

I feel fairly certain that if our own letter writing to Raintree hadn't worked to get us cancelled, we would have proceeded with G&G to terminate our membership, and it would have been $1500USD to get cancelled with no further monetary obligation, rather than paying MFs, banking a week and then advertising and trying to give it away to someone, which would have cost at least the same but added more work and time to our plate. Ours was a Gold membership with 50k annual points and an annual MF of $934. Coincidentally, another TUG poster was trying to give away the exact same membership on the bargain board and wasn't having much luck from what I could tell.

 

[FrankbynameFrankbynature]

Sorry to say Gonzalez and Gonzalez are CON ARTISTS

They are nothing but FAKE layers with no license WHATSOEVER.

Look at this on the net, Please wake up everyone and smell the COFFEE !!!

The offices, the changing contracts, ALL the BAD PRESS !!!

I have been watching this go on and on and now have to demonstrate what is available for you all to see.

Sorry all you hopefulls


Frankbyname Frankbynature

Amber Taylor - 2 Apr 2009
Just like you, my husband and I took a vacation to Mexico. what appeared to be a relaxing trip, turned in to a nightmare on the second day when we were invited to a ¨Free Breakfast¨ for ninty minutes. We purchased $36.000 with the same rental pitch hoping to use our weeks to pay it off.When we got back and realized we couln´t afford this purchase, we tried to cancel, no one from Mayan Palace accepted our Cancelation petition. We contacted a Lawyer who specializes in timeshare fraud and within 15 days we were able to get our Dowm payment back. invalid link removed
Ask for Cindy. She was very proffessional and empathetic. Hope they can help you with your issues.

Best Regards!!!!
Amber Taylor
Reply
Rating: +7 Alice - 16 Jul 2009
Amber,

I don't understand why you have literally hundred if not thousands of posts about being scammed here and there and everywhere. You must be a millionaire to have purchased so many time shares, and if you were defrauded once or twice or three times why did you keep buying them?. You are all over the internet. Are you a "for real" poster or a foil for Gonzalez and Gonzalez law firm. We were considering hiring them, but now YOU show up all over the internet and I am wondering if you are just a profiteer drumming up business for Gonzalez & Gonzalez.

But even Gonzalez & Gonzalez isn't this dumb to make 1,000 posts that are exactly the same. Or are they? Please let me know if you are a legit customer, really living in Tustin. I bet you have a 714 telephone prefix, don't you? Just like the professional and empathetic Cindy. Gonzalez and Gonzales, if thisis you, disguised as Amber Taylor, shame on you. shame shame shame on you. We'll see.
Reply
Rating: +6 Francisco - 7 Aug 2009
don't believe in these lawyers they are there to screw you not like the mayan they just took my money these a**holes f*** Gonzalez.
Reply
Rating: +2 A Really BUYER BEWARE!! - 13 Apr 2010
B E W A R E O F G O N Z A L E Z & G O N Z A L E Z

Beware of these thieves and con artists, they call themselves "lawyers"!!!! R u kidding me?? The trouble with Gonzalez and Gonzalez jokes are: they don't think they are funny and... us... we don't think they are jokes!.

Apart from the fact that we are mainly dealing with fiction (though various kinds of stories are thought to be true by many), I must stress that Gonzalez and Gonzalez cannot be considered a mirror image of reality. Gonzalez and Gonzalez are bearers of mentalities. Gonzalez and Gonzalez always form a subjective representation of how ‘ordinary scammed people’ perceive reality. Gonzalez and Gonzalez are all about perception - not necessarily about how life actually goes, but about how people feel and believe it goes. Gonzalez and Gonzalez play to reflect the latent values, preoccupations, anxieties, taboos, prejudices and desires of narrators and through all the multiple stuff they found around the internet, it does not matter if it is about Mayan Palace, Regina, Velas, Pacifica, Royal Holiday, Royal Sunset, they don't really care about them... nor us... For this reason, all the posts can serve them as an instrument for "scam diagnosis" Popular narrative is a sensitive barometer for collective moods in society.

Consequently, Gonzalez and Gonzalez interpreted as the outsiders view on the practice of law in a given society at a certain time. The majority of Gonzalez and Gonzalez "legal" practices are not invented nor actively spread by the in-group (although eventually, the in-group may join in, as a kind of defense mechanism). Most of these tales are made up by anonymous of the out-group, in no way hampered by any solid legal knowledge. By means of storytelling, laymen and outsiders air their views and opinions of the administration of justice. Often these Gonzalez and Gonzalez sharks are told from an underdog perspective - they are told by ordinary people who stand on the ‘powerless side’ of the law (and I mean criminals).
Reply
Rating: +2 A really BUYER BEWARE!!!! - 13 Apr 2010
Reply
Rating: +4 Cristina Scott - 30 Jun 2009
I tried contacting gonzalezgonzalez law firm as the above post mentioned and they turned out to be a bigger SCAM than the actual timeshare I got. Please do not contact them unless you want to waste your time and money. DO NOT trust them. They will only steal your money, they are based in Mexico which makes it impossible to track them or even sue them and they dont even seem to know anything about timeshare. It seems this Amber Taylor is not even a real person because the same post as above is posted all over the complaints boards and its too good to be true because when you actually contact the law firm they seem completely unprofessional. SCAMMERS trying to take advantage of people that have already been scammed once and are vulnerable. DO NOT FALL FOR THIS. Hope this helps.
Reply
Rating: 0 CANCEL YOUR TIMESHARES - 31 Jan 2011
WE ARE TIMESHARE EXPERTS AND HAVE MANY YEARS EXPERIENCE WORKING FOR VARIOUS TIMESHARE COMPANIES IN MEXICO.

CONCERNED ABOUT THE INTERNATIONAL TOURISM IN MEXICO WE ARE ASSOCIATED WITH ONE OF THE MOST EXPERIENCED LAW FIRMS IN MEXICO.
WE HAVE CREATEDTHE PERFECT LEGAL STRATEGIES TO GIVE ACCURATE SOLUTION'S TO ANYONE WHO HAS BEEN A VICTIM OF FRAUD IN PURCHASING TIMESHARES IN MEXICO.
WE OFFER OVER 40 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE IN LITIGATIONS AND DISPUTES ALL THROUGH OUT MEXICO, SPECIALIZING IN CIVIL MATTERS, TRADE, PROPERTY, AND ALL CRIMINAL AND TOURISM AS RELATED TO TIMESHARES. THE FIRM WAS FOUNDED IN MEXICO CITY IN 1970, IN SEPTEMBER OF 1983 WE EXPANDED TO GUADALAJARA JAL, AND IN THE YEAR 2003 TO PUERTO VALLARTA JAL.
We have assembled a team of EX-TIMESHARE employees that know the internal cancelation procedures for Mexican companies. We have found that almost all contracts can be cancelled with a refund of all monies paid. we can analyze your case and tell you what your chances are for a refund. link removed

HELP IS JUST A PHONE CALL AWAY!!
Reply
Rating: +7 Linda E. - 30 Jun 2009
Amber Taylor is FAKE and GONZALEZ AND GONZALEZ Lawfirm are a bunch of crooks, lying decieving, con artists!!! DO NOT GIVE THEM YOUR MONEY! THEY WILL STEAL IT AND HUMILIATE YOU!! SHE BLOGS ON EVERY TIMESHARE COMPLAINT AND SAYS THE SAME STORY!!

How could I be so dumb and fall for this. All it takes is a little research to find out that Amber Taylor is the name the cowards at Gonzalez and Gonzalez have been using to make posts online. I found the exact same post over 200 times on different blogs!!!

I called gonzalez and gonzalez. Initially they were so nice and attentive and wanted to hear my case. Then I fell for the trap and gave them my money, paying them a portion of whatever they would collect in advance. They could not get me my refund back and still these people refused to give me my payment back. THEY DIDNT EVEN CALL EL CID. I had to negotiate with the resort directly and actually got my money back. They said they were never even contacted by GONZALEZ AND GONZALEZ. In other cases, according to the gentleman at the resort, they had complaints from members saying they never got their money back, when in fact Gonzalez and Gonzalez had already recieved the refund money. THEY ARE STEALING PEOPLES REFUND MONEY!

As it turns out checking several other blogs, it turns out they invented this character Amber Taylor to give themselves publicity. I had my mexican lawyer inquire about them, it turns out they are NOT EVEN REAL lawyers. They are profiteers, and try to take advatange of anyone that comes in contact with them. Now they won't even take my phone calls. Every time I call to ask for my $2, 000 dollars they owe me, they just hang up the phone on me. They even called me, and I quote "stupid b***h! stop calling, you are not getting your money back!!!" Do NOT fall for them.

Here are just some of them, AGAIN there are hundreds of posts!! JUST CLICK ON AMBER TAYLOR AND SEE FOR YOURSELF!!! It seems as though this is the best way for them to make publicity from themselves...and have people fall in their trap! How could they make up a story like that:

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/kvic-c171832/page/1.html#c284389

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/el-cid-c52238/page/1.html#c281873
Reply
Rating: 0 Interested - 22 Jul 2009
Hello Linda,

I was victimized by another Mexican Lawyer with a website offering help to Americans scammed by the Grand Mayan timeshares. Terrible. You mention you had success and you had another mexican lawyer, who I assume you feel is reputable. I am looking for a Mexican lawyer to represent me. Can you provide me with a name. Thank you.

 

[hellolani]

Inconsistencies

Yeah, ok. I'm in agreement that the inconsistencies in the contract as well as the tone of complaints is fairly convincing. I can see how even if my contract didn't have any trick clauses in it, it would have been a good risk for them to take as if they failed to cancel for me but made up some way to convince me that they had, and I had then paid them, I would have not bother flying down to Mexico to sue for $1500, and if I wasn't truly cancelled I'd still be on the hook for my contract.

That said, I would only know if I had signed and then later had payment requested. We were so wary after Raintree I would definitely have followed up directly with Raintree to get a written confirmation of cancellation directly from them before paying G&G, so I feel I would have been safe from losing $1500 to this potential scam as my contract clearly states no fee till contract confirmed cancelled.

Also, I was only 1 month out from purchasing and had made no use of the membership, so I don't know if that affects the contract details as well as other people may have come earlier or later in the process to seek help.

I fully agree that it is beyond despicable to take advantage of people who find themselves in a desperate situation as we did, and my only hope in posting here is to provide what info I have in terms of my own experience as I hate to see an option taken away from people just in case it turns out to be a viable one.

My advice would definitely be to get the contract for your own case and have it reviewed with a lawyer friend for any risk elements, and not proceed if it has risk. Also I'd emphasize, send absolutely no money in advance of the services promised being delivered and double check that they have been delivered.

 

[dollydaydream]

Thank you HelloLani

Hi all,
This is Dolly again on a thread I should have come to a long time ago. If any of you know my situation or want to, you may see it on my original post about 'anyone having somthing nice to say about The Mayan Palace'. It has become quite a saga to say the least.

I have had communication from Gonzalez and Gonzalez which makes me extremely cautious.

I do not want to make any more mistakes but need reliable legal counsel in Mexico. Does anyone know who to use?

Has anyone had success?

Please tell.

Dolly

 

[Howardfox]

Hellolani - you sound very fair minded, and it's true, we can't assume all the lawyers are bad, just because there are some bad apples like Gonzalez and Gonzalez.
A range of contracts from them is no different to the scammers in the wider business using a range of tactics to get us to buy. I guess it just proves like anything that we should read any contract ourselves, thoroughly, before we sign and WHEN we sign.

I heard once of a scam where people were shown one contract at the start to read and study, and were then presented sneakily with another version to sign later in the day, a version which was different in several respects but which appeared, to the cursory glance, identical... and you're scammed! If caught out, the authors could always innocently claim "oh the other one must have been the older version".

As TacoTerry said, G & G can [as he invited them to do] always post a response themselves, if our impressions are honestly wrong.

 

[dollydaydream]

What to do.

Hello again,

I am so confused, should I sign up with Gonzalez and Gonzalez. I do not mind spending $1500 US more, because I feel a fool already..............[my letter of recission that I faxed was faxed by me the wrong way up !!!!!!!]


The info I have from G & G / Mexican Timeshare Solutions has this unusual demand/instruction..........what does this mean? Please if anyone knows, I need to do something quickly. The contract has no address on it which is strange.

Dolly



"Thank you for your interest in working with us to cancel your timeshare contract. Please find attached a contract for the provision of our services. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. If you wish to proceed, please print out the contract, sign it and fax or email it back to our office.
Best wishes,


[contact info. deleted - we don't want to give them free advertising on TUG - DeniseM Moderator]

P.S.We look forward to work with you to achieve the results you need. However, you are not our client until our firm gives you a written statement of acceptance and all documentation requested is provided and the contract is completed. Until and unless this occurs, you shall not give notice of our relationship to the Timeshare Developer or any of their subsidiaries or agents."