Sticky - Know Your Rights Of Rescission Before Attending A Mexican Timeshare Presentation

[DeniseM]

denise, if you re-read my post, you will realize that I agree with your hunch.

My apologies - I read it twice and it seemed like you were defending them.

 

[DeniseM]

Denise, I just checked Paypal's prohibited use check point 4. PROFECO IS A GOVERNMENT AGENCY
You always say NEVER PAY UPFRONT and you are right !!!!!!

Profeco and G & G are entirely separate entities. I have never heard of Profeco charging a fee. They are a legitimate consumer agency in Mexico and they have helped some posters with Mexican timeshares.

 

[siesta]

I was merely addressing the notion "that all up front fees" are scams. while this is a good rule of thumb, it is not always entirely true. The example I gave above is regarding attorneys and retainers. Three main ways attorneys bill are by flat fee (or per hour), contingency (no payment until settlement or resolution), and retainers. An attorney may requested a retainer to work on your case, when the funds are depleted and the case is still ongoing, an additonal retainer may be required. Of course, a retainer should always be accompanied by a retainer letter outlining the terms and conditions.

I agree, an attorney practicing in Mexico, claiming to work on a contingency basis, but then requiring a non-refundable retainer raises flags. I would not send any money upfront.

To answer another question directed towards me, I don't accept paypal.

 

[barbiebonita]

Profeco has no fee.

Denise, what I meant was if you see the prohibited use, a Paypal account CANNOT use PAYPAL to accept payment for services like G & G, Profeco is an official Government Agency which is completely aware of fraudulent practices so I see a breach here.

Barbara

 

[barbiebonita]

My Timeshare was a Scam

Has anyone seen this regarding the TUG post, I see Gonzalez and Gonzalez pitching their gig !!!!! Who is www.mytimesharewasasam.com ?????http://www.mytimesharewasascam.com/?s=gonzalez+and+gonzalez&paged=3

This gets more and more strange.

Barbara

http://www.mytimesharewasascam.com/?s=gonzalez+and+gonzalez&paged=3

 

[JaneinSpain]

confirmation of con artists Gonzalez and Gonzalez

Hi B and moderators of this group,

I have just registered mainly because I was hoping to highlight my concern about this firm Gonzalez and Gonzalez on the Timeshare Users Group. The rules appear to say that I am allowed to start a new thread, but I am not allowed to upload attachments. Not being able to upload attachments is a pity, but maybe if one of your members/moderators is able to do that and can give me an email address, I can forward what I have to show everyone. Unfortunately, I can´t see how to start a new thread on this, but it seems Gonzalez and Gonzalez are being discussed on this thread, so here goes.

My husband and I purchased at Krystal Cancun, Mexico, in December, because we have friends in the area and were sold on the idea of a timeshare. We then got remorseful and thought we might be able to get our money back. My husband found this firm on the internet who sounded like they could help -http://www.timesharescam.com, and they call themselves Mexican Timeshare Solutions. We have wasted a lot of time, trouble and hope with these complete fraudsters, who nearly succeeded in getting us to pay an upfront fee of nine hundred dollars, quite apart from wanting the no win no fee percentage.

We realised just in time that these evil people are preying on tourists even more cruelly than the timeshare industry, and are complete rip-off hypocrites.

Our friends know people who were able to go to their stated office address and it is a totally seedy dive, completely at odds with their advertising. I have also got the PDF they sent me showing me the contract they wanted us to sign for the $900. I wanted to upload these to put them on show to the world. I would complain somewhere official, but I am not sure whose jurisdiction applies. I have put this on the complaints board website.

I thought your members would be interested, so please advise if you want the evidence I have in my possession. It seems I can´t upload it here at present, but it is on the complaintsboard website.

From what I am reading, I don´t think there is any legal firm that would say we have a case for a refund from the resort, but thankfully, my husband and I are feeling generally more positive about the actual timeshare, which we will certainly use, and we aren´t thinking in terms of exchanges at this stage.

I just want to get this off my chest, because I found myself angrier and more disguested with the so-called "legal saviors" than I was with the timeshare people. It really is kicking people when they are down, and I hate the way their website pretends to care, when in fact they are laughing all the way to the bank.

Regards from Sunny Spain!

 

[barbiebonita]

Welcome Jane

I do not know how to upload on this site - I have seen pictures on other posts.

Thanks so much for the information, Denise is a doll, she can sense a trickster instantly. She has every right to say 'I told you so' to anyone who pays upfront fees.

Barbara

 

[Howardfox]

exactly!

These are precisely the type of dodgy legal people I started to talk about when I first joined!

I can't work out how to open a thread also, even though my setting on here says that as a guest I can.

 

[DeniseM]

These are precisely the type of dodgy legal people I started to talk about when I first joined!

I can't work out how to open a thread also, even though my setting on here says that as a guest I can.

Hi Howard - to start a new thread you just click on the forum you want to post on, and click the icon that says "new thread" above the first post. However, if there is already an on-going thread on the same topic, we prefer that you add your post to it (as you did here) rather than starting a new thread, on the same topic.

 

[DeniseM]

I do not know how to upload on this site - I have seen pictures on other posts.

You can't upload pictures directly from your computer - they must already be hosted somewhere on the internet. However, posting the link to the G&G contract like you did worked just fine. Anyone can click on the link and view the G&G contract on the other website.

 

[Passepartout]

I can't work out how to open a thread also, even though my setting on here says that as a guest I can.

You should be able to open any thread in the BBS by clicking on it's blue title, or on those with multiple pages (the small numbers below the title), the page number.

 

[Howardfox]

Siesta, I see you are a lawyer. Can you advise please, are the timeshare contracts, in general, legally valid and binding? My impression is that the only real issue with timeshare scams is that the contract wording doesn't back up what the salespeople say on the tours.

Is that basically the basis of all the scams we hear about? Is the bottom line that people just don't read what they are signing up to?

Curiously,

Howard

 

[Passepartout]

I have seen pictures on other posts.

Thanks so much for the information, Denise is a doll, she can sense a trickster instantly. Barbara

There's a short tutorial about posting pictures in a 'sticky' above the Lounge area. it will work in any of the other forums too.

We think Denise is pretty special too. Doll? ? Well, maybe sometimes but others might disagree.

Jim

 

[Howardfox]

thanks Denise and Passepartout - will give it a try when I have a subject which is not already being dealt with on a thread.
H

 

[siesta]

are the timeshare contracts, in general, legally valid and binding?

yes, and more often than not airtight.

My impression is that the only real issue with timeshare scams is that the contract wording doesn't back up what the salespeople say on the tours.

yes, but when you sign a contractual agreement you are agreeing to the terms and conditions specifically outlined in the written agreement.

Is that basically the basis of all the scams we hear about? Is the bottom line that people just don't read what they are signing up to?

bottom line, you hit the nail on the head. people don't read what they sign. they may of in fact been lied to or have intentionally been given misrepresentations about what they are actually agreeing to (you need to be able to prove this), but the fact of the matter is in a court of law a signed legal contract will weigh more than hearsay (there are of course exceptions to the hearsay rule). Additionally in timeshare contracts, you will see a clause specifically addressing the fact that by signing the document you are explicitly agreeing to the conditions contained within the document, and not any verbal promises or conditions that may have been presented.

Disclaimer: The contents of this post are offered only as a public service to the web community and does not constitute solicitation or provision of legal advice. This information should not be used as a substitute for obtaining legal advice from an attorney licensed or authorized to practice in your jurisdiction. You should always consult a suitably qualified attorney regarding any specific legal problem or matter.

 

[mikenk]

Siesta, very well stated and to the point. Your post should be at the top of the boot camp thread.

All contracts also state clearly that you have five days to read the contract and can back out for any reason.

Mike

 

[siesta]

All contracts also state clearly that you have five days to read the contract and can back out for any reason.

rescission periods and conditions may vary depending on the state the purchase was made.

 

[DeniseM]

Mexican sales people are infamous for:

1) Telling people verbally that they can't rescind because of some made up nonsense.
2) Not including the rescission Doc. in the sales paperwork.
3) Asking people to sign a separate (illegal) document waiving their right to rescind.

 

[mikenk]

Mexican sales people are infamous for:

1) Telling people verbally that they can't rescind because of some made up nonsense.
2) Not including the rescission Doc. in the sales paperwork.
3) Asking people to sign a separate (illegal) document waiving their right to rescind.

Interesting, I wasn't aware of that. In my experiences, I haven't had any of those three things happen. The sales people certainly didn't tell me of my rights but none ever told me I couldn't.

Siesta, thanks for the clarification, I had assumed the five day period was Mexican law.

Mike

 

[siesta]

mexico I believe is 5 days, for the U.S., it depends which state. here are some FAQ regarding right of rescission, courtesy of DeniseM.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74493

 

[Howardfox]

thanks

Thanks Siesta, et al, you seem to have confrimed what I kind of figured for a while about timeshare and about many tourist complaints. After all, they are entering into a contract with the resort, not the sales person. I think in general that we can expect a bit of b.s. from a salesperson whose livelihood is commission, no matter what they are selling - most responsible adults have to take basic precautions whenever they part with a lot of money.

Advice on what we should have done before we bought is maybe not so helpful for us on this forum, as we've mostly already bought- right? And it seems to me the resorts are at least offering good quality vacations and some return for our money. That's why I'm more preoccupied with the parasite lawyers, like these Gonzalez ones the lady is Spain has mentioned. [Sorry Siesta, I know not all lawyers are bad, but it's a pet hate of mine!]

My daughter purchased about 3 years ago in Ixtapa - low season - not a lot of money - but she couldn't afford it and lost a lot on top to a dodgy lawyer who promised to get her a refund. If we're not entitled to a refund, as Siesta says, why involved a lawyer at all?

Is there anything we can do as consumers, collectively, to combat these abuses? Are we campaigning anywhere to get this side of the legal professional to clean up its act?

 

[Idahoamy]

Purchase off Ebay!

Wow... I'm so glad we bought our PB TS off of ebay! We paid about $1500 all told for a Jr. suite at PB-Mazatlan, 11 years remaining in the TS. We pay $450/year maintenance, and stay at PB-EB. We ask if we can upgrade to a master, and have always been able to do so for free.

We've decided not to attend these next time we go. Not worth the $300. Sad to say; it's not a small chunk of change, but we're just tired of the abuse.

 

[pjrose]

Wow... I'm so glad we bought our PB TS off of ebay! We paid about $1500 all told for a Jr. suite at PB-Mazatlan, 11 years remaining in the TS. We pay $450/year maintenance, and stay at PB-EB. We ask if we can upgrade to a master, and have always been able to do so for free.

We've decided not to attend these next time we go. Not worth the $300. Sad to say; it's not a small chunk of change, but we're just tired of the abuse.

Congratulations for buying resale from ebay - sounds like you did well!

 

[barbiebonita]

Howard give us some suggestions.

Advice on what we should have done before we bought is maybe not so helpful for us on this forum, as we've mostly already bought- right? And it seems to me the resorts are at least offering good quality vacations and some return for our money. That's why I'm more preoccupied with the parasite lawyers, like these Gonzalez ones the lady is Spain has mentioned.

Is there anything we can do as consumers, collectively, to combat these abuses? Are we campaigning anywhere to get this side of the legal professional to clean up its act?

My my at last some activity. Howard what you ask is certainly warranted, but really what to do ? Couldn't the TUG form an entity like they have for resales etc but in the form of legal help. Not like G & G I am sure a legitimate avenue where a fee was payable when service was successful would be in everyones interest.

Please give your views.

Barbara

 

[Passepartout]

My my at last some activity. Howard what you ask is certainly warranted, but really what to do ? Couldn't the TUG form an entity like they have for resales etc but in the form of legal help. Not like G & G I am sure a legitimate avenue where a fee was payable when service was successful would be in everyones interest.

Please give your views.

Barbara

It's not really clear what you want TUG to do. It can't stop you from signing a contract you don't read. There is no pro-bono lawyer who is versed in international business law who will take a case that there is a very low likelihood of success. Even if successful, there would be no punitive damages from which to take a percentage, just restitution to a buyer. Again, it's not going to happen.

In the TUG forum, Buying, Selling, Renting, there's a sticky entitled TUGBBB Ratings of Timeshare Related Businesses. G&G is one of the firms rated by TUG members. If potential buyers don't look, they won't see that TUG members are already looking out for their best interests.

Short of having a TUG representative standing in each developers' salesroom shouting "BUY RESALE!" what do you want?

There have been threads about various TUGgers hanging out in the resort pools, bars and Jacuzzi's warning people about buying. Most have been ignored, and frankly, SOMEONE has to buy retail, full freight from developers or there wouldn't be high quality, newer, resort weeks for knowledgeable TUGgers to buy resale.

Sorry you don't seem to be getting the answers you want. Maybe you need to examine the questions you ask.

Jim Ricks