Splitting NYC points = pain in the a##

[CalGalTraveler]

PSA for owners who own NYC plus other HGVC properties. The recent HGVC scheme to split out the NYC Club points now makes it so that owners should call in most reservations/cancellations to ensure the points are pulled correctly.

I have had to spend hours on the phone this week trying to get points put into the right buckets when I make a cancellation or reservation. (Glad that we have all inclusive plan so not charged for phone reservations.) Just a few observations:

1) If you banked points for 2017 into 2018 they will have gone into Club but should be available for NYC since you paid for them.
2) You may need to unlock NYC points used for club reservations at other resorts such as Lagoon in order to make a NYC reservation. Call this in to have them correct as you don't want to risk losing your reservation by booking/rebooking.
2) If you book or cancel an RCI reservation you now need to ensure the points are taken from and replaced in the right bucket if you book/cancel.

A CSR told me that they are getting a ton of complaints about this new scheme. It seems that they are making this system overly complicated for all. Not sure if they thought this was a convenience or they are trying to curb abuse. If the latter perhaps they should go after the 1% of abusers directly rather than punishing the entire community of owners.

 

[frank808]

PSA for owners who own NYC plus other HGVC properties. The recent HGVC scheme to split out the NYC Club points now makes it so that owners should call in most reservations/cancellations to ensure the points are pulled correctly.

I have had to spend hours on the phone this week trying to get points put into the right buckets when I make a cancellation or reservation. (Glad that we have all inclusive plan so not charged for phone reservations.)

So if you pay the all inclusive fee, ALL reservations that you make, even with non NYC points are covered?

I am curious because if this is true i will be buying a small studio unit. I would break even on the studio purchase (resale of course) within 4 years because of the savings from booking fees. Thanks


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[JohnPaul]

Wow!! You must make a lot of reservations. It took $20,000 to pass ROFR for a platinum studio at W 57th St.

Also, the all inclusive club fee is a bit higher - $270 if I remember correctly.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Actually AI is $120 on top of club dues. Your figure appears to include the HGVC club dues.

 

[brp]

PSA for owners who own NYC plus other HGVC properties. The recent HGVC scheme to split out the NYC Club points now makes it so that owners should call in most reservations/cancellations to ensure the points are pulled correctly.

No cancellations as yet, but I can say that reservations are (unfortunately) being pulled perfectly correctly for us since the system went live. The only glitch was that an existing NYC reservation was pulled from the "regular" points when they split, so bank error in our favor on that one. Subsequent reservations have been too perfectly pulled

Cheers.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

What a mess! Just spent an hour on the phone trying to figure out saved 2017 points. Even got a manager on the phone who hassled me about it. Which has never happened before.

Who comes up with these Rube Goldberg solutions at HGVC? They have taken a 1x3 problem (managing saved/borrowed year to year points) and created a 2x3 complex problem out of this (Saved/borrowed x Club/non-Club) NYC and District owners now not only have to figure out the year, but also what property to pull. Now I have to call in all of my reservations to ensure they pull points from the correct 2x6 buckets. I also have to check cancellations to ensure they go back into the correct 6 buckets. PSA: RCI cancellations will default to throwing everything back in to the non-NYC bucket even if they are NYC Hilton Club points.

The problem is that the splits were implemented on NYC/Club owner accounts in Jan 2018 but my reservations were made in 2017 when property points were blended together as oldest points first. I am now trying to get some of my saved 2017 NY points out of an upcoming HI reservation to stay at NYC and they insist that I have to risk my Lagoon reservation to book/rebook and use the system as an arbiter of which property they came from.

When I made the reservation in 2017, I was not given the opportunity to select which properties the points came from at that time - NY/ non NY point splits did not exist - it was all blended together. So how would the system know how I allocated them to this reservation? I was never given the choice. The manager could not get this through his head and kept insisting that the system would know (not!) and he would need a week to go through every transaction on my account to know exactly where the points came from before I could fix my reservation.

I even suggested some simple math i.e. if I have a reservation with 9600 saved 2017 points, and I only have 7000 non-NYC Club 2017 saved points, what property do you think the other saved 2017 points came from if the only other property I own is NYC Club? The manager did not get it and continued to insist that the system would have to figure it out.

He said they implemented the splits tracking because people were abusing the system. How can I be abusing the system if I have not stayed in NY since 2016? A reasonable person would infer I should be able to use some of those saved 2017 NYC points that I paid for NYC reservations...(and not to spend an hour on the phone, risk my reservations, and be hassled about it.)

What is worse is that they are wasting money on these Rube Goldberg IT solutions and increasing the cost of the call centers to manage the points as a 2x6, which raises costs for HGVC maintenance. A simple solution with behind the scenes reports of abusers who are consistently using more than their allotted Hilton Club points to monitor would suffice.


P.S. At least these online and call center reservations are free with AI but what a hassle for a bunch of nonsensical rules!

 

[Talent312]

Years ago, HC was treated like a totally separate system with its own set of rules. This problem is derived from ill-advised efforts to blend the two systems. The easiest solution (thus, never to be tried) may be to return to yesteryear and create two separate accounts, one for HC ponts and one for regular points, with HC treated like a common group of affiliates.
.

 

[JohnPaul]

It's a needed change but I can see that making the switch, especially for people with lots of both types of points would be a best guess attempt. I think activity that happens for transactions started post split will go fine. Cleaning up the past will probably be a pain for some folks.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@Talent312 Are you referring to HCNY? I believe HCNY has always been a separate animal but maybe they are also trying to blend that?

What I am referring to affects West 57th, Residences and the District (and future Hilton Clubs) when regular HGVC properties are also owned. West 57 has always been blended with the rest of HGVC.

FWIW...I don't think they could legally separate HC from HGVC because trading HGVC system is baked into the deeds but yes, the way they are handling this is not up the the HGVC standard. In fact, we have never received a formal communication about this change.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

It's a needed change but I can see that making the switch, especially for people with lots of both types of points would be a best guess attempt. I think activity that happens for transactions started post split will go fine. Cleaning up the past will probably be a pain for some folks.

HGVC wrongly assumes that people will only use their Hilton Club points in Hilton Club. The problem for the future is that being on the west coast we don't always go to NYC every year (we didn't go last year) but when we want to go, we want access to the NY points we paid a premium for as an owner.

We tend to borrow points to make reservations until our travel plans solidify. In this case we decided to go to NY after we made reservations elsewhere with the points, so we needed more points for NYC reservation and this currently involves booking and unbooking reservations to release NYC points. We never had to worry about this in the past. Unless they improve their reporting systems, trying to unravel the reservation hairball to find the NYC points is nonsense - it's like a "Where's Waldo" game because their systems don't tell them where the NY points are unless they book/unbook reservations - which is nuts - and risks losing our other reservations. Not a good way to run a business.

 

[SmithOp]

I’m not sure if this will help you but I discovered a trick to recovering regular hgvc points. I had a reservation with current points I needed to cancel. I also had a reservation with borrowed that I wanted to keep. Obviously I wanted to swap points so I wouldn’t have to save the current year points. I was able to add one day to the borrowed point reservation, then remove it. Each time it replaced the borrowed points with current points. After a few changes I was able to swap all the points.


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[CalGalTraveler]

@SmithOp Thanks! That is a terrific suggestion because it does not risk my existing reservation. Although this doesn't solve my 2017 saved points that have been mis-categorized/uncategorized, It will help going forward. Will play with a few dummy reservations to see how this works with two property buckets in addition to current/borrowed buckets.

What this also means is that Hilton Club points should never be used for an RCI reservation because they will get locked in and will not go back to the proper bucket if we cancel the RCI reservation Or decide later that we want to go to New York City. This is a system bug.

 

[GT75]

I was able to add one day to the borrowed point reservation, then remove it. Each time it replaced the borrowed points with current points. After a few changes I was able to swap all the points.

It seems that I also have to do this each year to straighten out my points. You can also do this by removing one or two days from the reservation and then adding them back.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Thanks @GT75 and @SmithOp for the great advice about using change reservations to straighten out points. I was able to move the saved points to a reservation earlier in the year with this method. (Tuggers are awesome!)

Two further questions:

1) When a day is released in a changed reservation, the day that is released is in peril until it is rebooked, correct? (i.e. you have to be fast or that day could be taken.)

2) Can you continue to change (book and unbook) the same day to get the right result? or does it release the same points used in the latest reservation and you have to book/unbook other days?

3) The system released our 2018 Clubpoints but did not release our 2018 NYC Hilton Club points from a non-Hilton Club reservation; it seems that Hilton Club should have been released first or we should be given the option. This is a system bug and when I called it in, the CSRs told me she did not have a way to correct this without booking/rebooking the entire reservation. I am hoping #2 above will solve this if I use changeable to book and rebook enough times. The only other alternative is to cancel and rebook the entire reservation so I can select points buckets to pull from, however that risks our entire reservation (argh!).

 

[GT75]

1) When a day is released in a changed reservation, the day that is released is in peril until it is rebooked, correct? (i.e. you have to be fast or that day could be taken.)

Yes, it is possible. Usually I need to do this several times (book or release and release or book 1 or 2 days), so I normally just call it in to have it done for me. In addition, it usually takes between 5-15 minutes for that day to become available in the reservation system (it seems to be immediate if you call it in). I do think that adding a day to the reservation and then removing (@SmithOp method) would be much safer (but then the day must be available in the reservation system). If you do need to release one day and then rebook it (because there isn't any inventory to add to the reservation) then it is also very unlikely that someone will steal that day from you.

2) Can you continue to change (book and unbook) the same day to get the right result? or does it release the same points used in the latest reservation and you have to book/unbook other days?

.

You can book and release the same day as many times as necessary to get your desired results. Since I don't have any Hilton Club points, I can not help you there.

 

[Cyberc]

Seems that Hilton still hasn’t resolved the issue with adding another day to a current reservation.

Just tried to change a reservation and if I wanted to add or remove a day then I’m unable to do so as not all days are available in my reservation. I would still need to call in the change. :-(

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Yes, it is possible. Usually I need to do this several times (book or release and release or book 1 or 2 days), so I normally just call it in to have it done for me. In addition, it usually takes between 5-15 minutes for that day to become available in the reservation system (it seems to be immediate if you call it in). I do think that adding a day to the reservation and then removing (@SmithOp method) would be much safer (but then the day must be available in the reservation system). If you do need to release one day and then rebook it (because there isn't any inventory to add to the reservation) then it is also very unlikely that someone will steal that day from you.

Thanks for clarifying. I could not add a day because it was summer at Lagoon Tower However, it is a great suggestion and I will keep this in mind for the future.

I was not comfortable making this change online so I called it in. As you indicated, the changes were immediate. I was sweating by releasing the one day for a few seconds. Would not want to wait 15 min for the points to show up online. Since reservations via phone are free for me, I will call in the future. Also need to make sure the points are being taken out/put back into the correct buckets since it is now a 4x4 with this year and next; NYC/non-NYC.

 

[seagila]

Yes, it is possible. Usually I need to do this several times (book or release and release or book 1 or 2 days), so I normally just call it in to have it done for me. In addition, it usually takes between 5-15 minutes for that day to become available in the reservation system (it seems to be immediate if you call it in). I do think that adding a day to the reservation and then removing (@SmithOp method) would be much safer (but then the day must be available in the reservation system). If you do need to release one day and then rebook it (because there isn't any inventory to add to the reservation) then it is also very unlikely that someone will steal that day from you.

I'm not a Hilton Club owner, so can't help with those concerns.

I did want to share my experience regarding the emphasized sections quoted above. Last night I wanted to swap borrowed points with current-year points on a Club Reservation at HHV Lagoon Tower in the middle of August this year. Thinking it was "relatively safe" to release and rebook one day, since there were no adjacent available dates, I went ahead and did so. The one day I released never popped back up in inventory which surprised and frustrated me. I just cannot imagine someone else snagging that one day, unless they had an existing Club Reservation adjacent to the day I released, and they also happened to be up at the very same ungodly hour I was. I waited for an hour checking every couple of minutes, but the day never reappeared in inventory, which tells me HGVC probably grabbed that day for release at their discretion or for their own inventory.

Given this experience, I suggest booking then canceling additional day/s to swap borrowed points for current-year points as suggested by @SmithOp .

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I'm not a Hilton Club owner, so can't help with those concerns.

I did want to share my experience regarding the emphasized sections quoted above. Last night I wanted to swap borrowed points with current-year points on a Club Reservation at HHV Lagoon Tower in the middle of August this year. Thinking it was "relatively safe" to release and rebook one day, since there were no adjacent available dates, I went ahead and did so. The one day I released never popped back up in inventory which surprised and frustrated me. I just cannot imagine someone else snagging that one day, unless they had an existing Club Reservation adjacent to the day I released, and they also happened to be up at the very same ungodly hour I was. I waited for an hour checking every couple of minutes, but the day never reappeared in inventory, which tells me HGVC probably grabbed that day for release at their discretion or for their own inventory.

Given this experience, I suggest booking then canceling additional day/s to swap borrowed points for current-year points as suggested by @SmithOp .

This is really scary. My reservation was in late June and everything rebooked at Lagoon with no problems. I don't think HGVC can take the inventory for other purposes until the 31 day/open season period. If they are doing so, this is very wrong for the reasons we are discussing.

 

[seagila]

Just got off the phone with Member Services to check whether they can see the day I released from my Club Reservation. They started by saying what I see online as available inventory is the same availability they see. But when I gave them the day I was looking for, it was sitting right there. They could see it, but it was not showing as available online. So I asked them to add the day back to my reservation, which they did. Now I have my original dates back!

Thank you for the tip to call it in. I had just assumed it disappeared from inventory. So in this instance, somehow the inventory Member Services sees is not always in sync with what club members see.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Just got off the phone with Member Services to check whether they can see the day I released from my Club Reservation. They started by saying what I see online as available inventory is the same availability they see. But when I gave them the day I was looking for, it was sitting right there. They could see it, but it was not showing as available online. So I asked them to add the day back to my reservation, which they did. Now I have my original dates back!

Thank you for the tip to call it in. I had just assumed it disappeared from inventory. So in this instance, somehow the inventory Member Services sees is not always in sync with what club members see.

What a relief. Glad you got your reservation back. I do recall that the system sometimes will not show one day of availability because it assumes that members need a min of 3 days to book. This works in favor of people like us who are reshuffling their points because it means that the online community cannot see the availability. This explanation makes more sense than HGVC taking the reservation.

 

[GT75]

So I asked them to add the day back to my reservation, which they did. Now I have my original dates back!

I too am glad that it work out especially since I was suggesting the method. I would have thought that it would show up also in what we were seeing. I do know that member services see the change much faster than I can see the change. I guess it is best to call in the change for these kinds of things.

Thanks for the update.

 

[seagila]

What a relief. Glad you got your reservation back. I do recall that the system sometimes will not show one day of availability because it assumes that members need a min of 3 days to book. This works in favor of people like us who are reshuffling their points because it means that the online community cannot see the availability. This explanation makes more sense than HGVC taking the reservation.

I too am glad that it work out especially since I was suggesting the method. I would have thought that it would show up also in what we were seeing. I do know that member services see the change much faster than I can see the change. I guess it is best to call in the change for these kinds of things.

Thanks for the update.

Thanks. I too am glad and relieved it all worked out in the end.

Back in the Revolution system, I reshuffled my points by releasing and then rebooking the same day or two of my Club reservation. The day/s disappeared for a few minutes but eventually reappeared in inventory. I successfully did this several times back then. I assumed it would work the same way in the current system. Last night was the first and last time I would reshuffle my points in that manner.

It would be good to see a day or two sitting available in inventory online if I have an adjacent reservation, so I can extend a stay if I wanted. It'd be a pain to have to call Member Services frequently to check if there was an available day or two to extend a reservation just because it doesn't show up online otherwise.

 

[GT75]

It'd be a pain to have to call Member Services frequently to check if there was an available day or two to extend a reservation just because it doesn't show up online otherwise.

I agree and would have thought that we see all available days. Now I know to call to see if there are any available days.