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Sometimes it's better to buy from the brand [says Timeshare Salesman]

Discussion in 'Buying, Selling & Renting Timeshares' started by maxpot46, Feb 2, 2019.

  1. maxpot46

    maxpot46 Guest

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    I'm not talking about the average timeshare, and admit that there are many lemons and bad deals in the industry. Pointing to them says nothing about my propositions, which are in regards to outlier premium programs.

    TUG is like any other forum, 90% emotional reactions and 10% dialectic. I expect no less, and am not deterred by it.
     
  2. DannyTS

    DannyTS TUG Member

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    I have very little doubt that most of what you sell, if not all of what you sell is lemons, at least in terms of value.
     
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  3. bluehende

    bluehende TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    Dialectic Everybody drink
     
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  4. Iggyearl

    Iggyearl TUG Member

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    Max, I think you have a lot of self confidence, you have done well, and you make a good living. Have you had many recessions?
     
  5. CalGalTraveler

    CalGalTraveler TUG Member

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    Can you direct us to this forum post?

    I get it now. You sell to an extremely narrow high-end market. The problem is as developers increase their price points beyond $100,000 you are selling to an ever narrowing audience and the TS market is saturated.

    The market is even shrinking because the industry has an image problem due to a lack of liquidity caused by a fractured "wild west" resale market, and brands refusing to guarantee deedbacks. I see exit companies every night on prime-time. Just read the comments to a Wyndham interview on The Points Guy blog (spoiler: it struck a negative nerve). This reputation must not sit well for prospective penthouse buyers with big egos who want bragging rights.

    If you want to give people a big reason to buy developer, here it is:

    Provide a guaranteed buyback and emergency deedback program. It could look roughly like this:
    • The buyback could be as simple as a sliding scale e.g. "if you own for 5 years you get x, 10 years we will give you y, if you own for 15 we will give you z.."
    • The emergency deedback would be like an insurance policy in which if someone could verify they lost their job, had a major health issue. spousal death etc. they could surrender their unit for free in return for taking over the maintenance fee. Proceeds from reselling the unit, and insurance proceeds cover the MF costs until it is resold.
    Similar to Starwood's requalification process for StarOptions, you could even enable people to get the same guarantee for their resales if they buy back in. You make sales, people know they have an easy exit if life happens and they need out quickly. It's like an insurance policy. A new revenue stream that supports deedbacks and buybacks, without the cost of building a new resort.

    If I knew that I was going to get my money back (or a good portion of it), and had an easy exit in an emergency, I would consider buying developer again. We purchased with the expectation our value would hold (but without a guarantee) and were disappointed. You can fool me once.

    Developers are going to have to address supporting a robust resale and deedback market because losing $20k vs. losing $100k changes the game stakes and the house of cards will fall to earth if they choose to ignore it.

    Spend some time reading TUG. Listen to the stories and share them with your management so they can take action to address the industry issues.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
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  6. RX8

    RX8 TUG Member

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    And you think you are selling value? You make a sick amount of money because you are selling a $2.00 bottle of ketchup for $30.00.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
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  7. Panina

    Panina TUG Review Crew: Elite TUG Member

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    Call me crazy but I would love to go to a presentation with the op and I NEVER go to any presentations. Even though I see it different I get what he is saying. Even though I would never buy from a developer it would be an interesting exchange.

    It might be my Real Estate sales experience. There are some similarities. I sold million dollar homes. If you went down the road you could get a nicer home for 1/4 of the price but the prestige and value one perceived and the status they wanted made the sale. The difference between me and other sales people was I would do all in my power not to sell to someone who could not afford it. Always told them it’s your choice, if you want to buy I will sell to you but here is why I believe your over extending yourself. My boss heard me and I got in trouble but still did it my way and kept my job because anywhere they sent me I sold where others couldn’t.

    I hate how most developers sell but it isn’t all their fault like we want to blame them. It amazes me the buyer just buys. Almost everything else people research for a good price. Common sense just leaves when on vacation. I got my first timeshare from a developer but that was before the internet and the ease of research. I shopped all the timeshare in the Atlantic City area in person doing my best comparison shopping at that time before I purchased.
     
  8. T-Dot-Traveller

    T-Dot-Traveller TUG Member

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    Hi Max ,
    If you read the TUG rules - basically religion , politics , controversial topics etc : are off limits / due to the headaches of moderating these topics .

    Timeshare Salespeple are fair game .

    I can see you joined TUG in August .
    Welcome to the forum -
     
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  9. dayooper

    dayooper TUG Member

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    Just a piece of advice, I wouldn’t go around bragging on this here. When I read this, I immediately took you in a negative light. You are in a forum that sees people who have been lied to, swindled, taken advantage of and sold something they couldn’t handle financially. Yes, I understand it’s their choice, but it’s still predatory sales. I also understand you may not use these tactics, but we really don’t know the truth on this. As soon as you started bragging about how much you make in such a short amount of time, it made you sound like one of those predatory salesman. This one statement you made took everything you said about selling timeshares the right way and threw it out the window.

    If you are truly here to learn and have civil dialogue, you shouldn’t make statements like that.
     
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  10. T-Dot-Traveller

    T-Dot-Traveller TUG Member

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    Inuit

    The Inuit are a group of culturally similar indigenous peoples inhabiting the Arctic regions of Greenland , Canada and Alaska

    Eskimo is a prior term .

    The Edmonton CFL Football team does have the prior use term in its name
    just as the Washington NFL team uses a prior use term in its name .
     
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  11. DannyTS

    DannyTS TUG Member

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    Panina, i see where you are coming from. Yet, it is not the same thing. The million dollar homes you were selling were not worth 250k the next morning.

    The fact that he is in a high end market does not change anything IMO, there are many other timeshares that are high end and in fabulous locations around the globe. They all suffer from the same problem: lack of liquidity. How many of his (supposedly well paid) colleagues do you think bought at that location the contracts they sell?
     
  12. Panina

    Panina TUG Review Crew: Elite TUG Member

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    When the market turned down and re taxes went up some those million dollar homes foreclosed and sold for 250k but that wasn’t my point.

    Lack of liquidity and not getting back what you paid is around in many purchases. Recently I purchased a used vechicle and it was amazing how large the spread was in pricing. It was my responsibility to figure out if the price was right.

    The problem with timeshares is the dishonest things buyers are told. It would take all of 5 minutes of an internet search to find out that you shouldn’t buy right now until you learn more yet most don’t do it. Doesn’t make a different there is no value, the buyer had a brain freeze not doing due research to make sure what they are buying is price well like they do for other items purchased. The prestige and value that one chooses to believe without researching is the problem. With all the time that one spends on their phones, think how easy it would to do a search while sitting at a presentation.
     
  13. DannyTS

    DannyTS TUG Member

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    You are right that many items do not keep their value after the purchase and people know that cars are depreciating goods. But real estate keeps its value and the TS industry thrives in no small part because of the initial confusion (skillfully manipulated by the TS sales people) that time sharing = real estate.

    How many of us have heard the timeshare sales people saying something like: "if you buy a timeshare you are investing in real estate"?
     
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  14. Sapper

    Sapper Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    Backwards, Eskimo are a group of culturally similar indigenous people made up of the Inuit and Yupik. Canada has no Yupik, and adopted the term Inuit to replace Eskimo (back in the 1970's I think). Also, the Inupiat in Northern Alaska may technically fall under the Inuit group, but they like to identify as seperate... and did not seem to mind calling themselves part of the Eskimo people the last time I was in Barrow.
     
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  15. T-Dot-Traveller

    T-Dot-Traveller TUG Member

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    Interesting cultural nuances .

    Does the nuance create the terminology or the other way around ?

    Some terms stop being used because they were always offensive to the group defined by
    the terminology - even though the term may have been in general use .

    Metis vs half-breed -
    I have a copy of Canadian Geographic from the early 1970’s in which a article uses the term “half - breeds “to refer to the guides used to visit a remote area of Western Canada .

    Metis is now the usage term .

    ******
    For TUG - Timeshare Salesperson and Sales Weasel remain interchangeable
    and both are accepted use terms in the forum
     
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  16. breezez

    breezez TUG Member

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    I think lately TS companies have done a better job in explaining that TS is not a financial investment, but rather an investment in future vacations. Every TS companies liteture now days has this in bold print.

    Personally I have nothing against TS sales people that are ethical in how they approach sales. I have sat with ones completely ethical, I have sat with ones that don’t know there product very well, I have sat with ones who sort of miss represent things not so much because they are lying but repeating what they have heard others say without knowing their product, and finally I have sat with the complete liars which I detest. You can always spot the complete liars because they get really defensive normally in the presentation as the law of psychological reciprocity goes out the window with them.

    While many items significantly depreciate once you walk out the door like furniture. Timeshares have either a monthly, quarterly, or annual fee not going away. I am always amazed that people didn’t understand this or that it would increase once they bought it.

    See a couch I can throw away when I’m done a TS I have to find someone else to take or crash my credit to have it foreclosed on.

    What would be good to see in the Timeshare industry is a truth in understanding statement sort of like a truth in lending statement that shows what your loan fees and interest over life of loan will be (If using the sleezy tactic of signing them up on a branded CC to pay some or all this should be on form to), statement should show what maintenance fees will be and an estimated annual increase amount for maintenance fees for each of the next 3-5 years. Then at the bottom clearly list the rescind policy / procedure based on statutory rules in place at that location.

    If TS companies were really ethical they would clearly state rescind policies not hide them in secret pockets or obscure them in mounds of paper work.

    They would clearly make sure people understood there was re-occurring fees

    They would list out those benefits that would not transfer if resold.

    Finally if TS companies were truly ethical they would not have to strip benefits from contracts that are resold on open market. The fact that they do means they know the root product they sell for the price they sell it is not worth it. So they have to try and make what they are now selling look more valuable by adding benefits that can’t be transferred. So thus, they have little to no value in most cases when they are transferred.
     
  17. bizaro86

    bizaro86 TUG Member

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    I have a "certificate of half-breed status" the Canadian government gave my great-great grandmother.
     
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  18. jwalk03

    jwalk03 TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    I would think an Ivy League Econ degree could get one a much better job than being a sales weasel!

    $250/night for renting is way too high of average. I have rented Hilton Head over 4th of July, Summer Myrtle Beach, Fall Smokey Mountains, Summer Wisconsin Dells, Holiday weekend Nashville, Bonnet Creek, Las Vegas, San Fransisco, and Panama City Beach among others the last few years and I have NEVER paid $250 per night for any of those, and all were at least 2BR units, not studios.
     
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  19. Sapper

    Sapper Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    I was thinking of this when I wrote my previous post. How in Northern Canada the preferred terminology may be offensive to the folks living on the West coast of Alaska. Sometimes it comes down to what one local group prefers to be called.

    I have never heard the term "Metis" before, but the other term would be considered an insult. Though I did know some one who called her self half Tlingit half "sneaky Coast Guard guy". She had a great sense of humour.

    I'm fairly certain "Sales Weasel" is the preferred term around this local population. ;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
  20. CalGalTraveler

    CalGalTraveler TUG Member

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    I know we are all frustrated with the developers and how they sell. I am too. However I am learning a lot from this discussion and it will do no good to call people names (no matter how angry one is).

    Let's keep this conversation respectful as we can gripe to ourselves all we want, but I think learning from those outside our bubble to hear other perspectives is helpful.
     
  21. bizaro86

    bizaro86 TUG Member

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    Metis is a Canadian only term I think. It denotes the group of people who were (roughly) half French-Canadian half Native-Canadian. Mostly French last names. The fur trade was largely controlled initially by the French. The Voyageurs travelled by canoe to Western Canada and traded with the local people for furs. Given how long that journey took, they often stayed over winter and traveled in the summer. Inevitably some married local women, and stayed. They formed communities generally centered around the fur-trading forts. There was also a Metis rebellion once, led by Luis Riel. Executed as a traitor but now considered a father of Confederation.

    The Metis were historically considered a "problem." Not fully native (and thus not entitled to reserves or the protections of the Indian Act) but not white either, in a society that was not historically accepting of non-whites. Metis people have been fighting for various historic rights for generations. I think it is unlikely those rights will ever be granted comparably to status Indians, as the number of people who have Metis status in one way ot another is significant. And many (myself included) are not visibly from a minority group, and thus face none of the discrimination faced by those who are visibly native in Canada.
     
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  22. davidvel

    davidvel TUG Member

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    The numbers you quoted are the averages. Since you are claiming that many high end programs are such a great buy, post a real world example of a company you don't sell for: Product, developer price, annual MF, purchase perks. vs. resale of the same product. This way your theoretical "average" product can be tested. Of course, you could even post your own brand but we wouldn't know.

    But of course, we know you can't and won't do this.
     
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  23. bluehende

    bluehende TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    Notice how he uses averages for all the costs associated with his Ferrari. I could make the numbers look good too if I bought a Ferrari at Chevy prices.
     
  24. rickandcindy23

    rickandcindy23 TUG Review Crew: Expert TUG Member

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    It's almost never wise to buy developer. If I pay $60K for a timeshare now (I am 63, almost 64), if I use it 30 years, I am paying $2K per year for the purchase. Add in the MF's, and i am at $3,000 for a week of timeshare per year. I own a lot of timeshare, and not one of them is this expensive. This is why I won't go on a Marriott presentation, not ever again.
     
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  25. maxpot46

    maxpot46 Guest

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    Yes, unfortunately it's a part of the biz. I do a bit better than my colleagues who sell emotionally, as I've created a bunch of support documents to help them understand the product (including the spreadsheet for perusal by financial experts).
     

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