something wrong with our dog

[jackio]

Our rescue dog is almost 12 years old. She is a Havanese-poodle mix. We moved 6 months ago and she seems to love the new house and new community. We take a lot more walks here, because there are no fences. In the previous house we just used to let her out in the yard to to her business.

About a month ago, she started waking up in the middle of the night, pacing and panting for hours. She would lay down for a short time and then get up again pacing. While she was in this state, she did not want to be held or comforted. I would take her out and she would pace around out there too, and not want to go back in to the house.

We cannot hear any outside or house noises that would frighten her, but her episodes seem to happen after her stomach gurgles. We hear a loud gurgle, then she startles and gets up, and the pacing begins. We did notice her appetite had decreased.

The vet thought she might have back pain, but she is jumping up and down from the furniture with no problem. She is still jaunty on her walks. Spinal xrays were negative.

They started her on Pepcid which did not seem to help, so they switched her to Zantac. Still not much difference. Then the put her on Xanax 0.25 mg at night. She sleeps soundly for a few hours then the episodes begin.

We had a sonogram done of all her organs, all negative. She has lost 2 lbs, from 10 in February down to 9 at the beginning of this, and then 8 a month later.

We bought cannabis oil and add it to her evening meal. It has done wonders for her appetite, but not much for her sleeping.

Her episodes do not seem as frantic as they were. She paces but tries to settle herself. Sometimes it works after a while, but sometimes she is up all night (as are we, unfortunately).

The vet mentioned that she may have the beginnings of dementia. But her behavior is only at night, after she has been asleep, and it seems to be tied to the stomach gurgling. During the day she has been a little more clingy, wanting to be held more than usual. Her bowels are great, and she loves the walks.

Any ideas anyone may have will be greatly appreciated. TIA. - Jacki

Edited to add: We also tried Melatonin 3 mg as per the vet's suggestion.

 

[DaveNV]

Try crating her, in a darkened space, or with a blanket to block excess light. Maybe she’s just having restless sleep? Confining her in a safe place might help?

My older Dachshund had a nervous habit of chewing himself. We put him on Apoquel, a 3.6mg dose daily, served in pill form wrapped in a bit of cheese. He’s calmer, doesn’t chew, and seems fine. You might talk to your Vet to see if it’s an option. (Buy it online where it’s cheapest, it’s expensive.)

Good luck!

Dave

 

[easyrider]

I don't know but sometimes the food is a problem. Bad water or food bowls from China can leach chemicals or lead into the food. My dog eats pressure canned chicken hind quarters with some Purina. The bowls are stainless steel.

I haven't heard about pot oil for dogs. That is interesting. I know it works for humans. Is it pot oil or hemp cbd oil ?

Bill

 

[jackio]

Try crating her, in a darkened space, or with a blanket to block excess light. Maybe she’s just having restless sleep? Confining her in a safe place might help?

My older Dachshund had a nervous habit of chewing himself. We put him on Apoquel, a 3.6mg dose daily, served in pill form wrapped in a bit of cheese. He’s calmer, doesn’t chew, and seems fine. You might talk to your Vet to see if it’s an option. (Buy it online where it’s cheapest, it’s expensive.)

Good luck!

Dave

Thanks. I will ask the vet about it. We actually starting leaving a light on because we thought she may have suddenly become afraid of the dark. We will try darkening again.

I don't know but sometimes the food is a problem. Bad water or food bowls from China can leach chemicals or lead into the food. My dog eats pressure canned chicken hind quarters with some Purina. The bowls are stainless steel.

I haven't heard about pot oil for dogs. That is interesting. I know it works for humans. Is it pot oil or hemp cbd oil ?

Bill

Thanks. Our bowls are stainless, the same since we got her. I have been boiling chicken breasts to add extra protein to her food each feeding. The vet gave us some canned food especially for stomach distress but she refused it.

The oil is called NutraVent Hemp 500. It claims to help with a lot of things, but I do see her appetite increasing.

I was thinking she has some sort of cancer, because of the unexplained weight loss. Her labs and sono were fine. I don't want to put her through extensive testing because of her age.

 

[Passepartout]

I was thinking she has some sort of cancer, because of the unexplained weight loss. Her labs and sono were fine. I don't want to put her through extensive testing because of her age.

At 12, she is no 'spring chicken', and may be well beyond middle age. If you don't want to do extensive testing, just love her and show her the love she gives you. My buddy is now over 10, so I am seeing a slow-down from him too.

Jim

 

[clifffaith]

Our beagle started pacing at night when he was 14. He had a doghouse outside on the deck with our cairn terrier. Dog house was right outside the bedroom slider so we would hear click clack from his nails. Tried bringing him inside and he didn't like that at all and would roam room to room. Vet attributed it to old age, and we had been taking him for doggie acupuncture and massage for back issues so I wondered if his back bothered him more at night (and of course we were more aware of pacing at that time too). We did lose him before he turned 15.

 

[Panina]

Something is bothering him. He is getting older and there is a high chance it is age related. Maybe try feeding him earlier or later and see if the time he paces changes. If you are giving him a variety of food try giving him only one kind for the day to try and isolate if a food is causing him digestive issues. If arthritic try glucosamine, Trader Joe’s has it for dogs. Made a tremendous different in my mother in laws dog.

 

[WinniWoman]

My dog did the same thing when he was older. Never did know why. I tried different things and they didn't work. Then he started to become incontinent with bowel movements. We eventually ended up taking him to the vet and saying goodbye.

 

[Glynda]

Could it be an ear problem? Also there is a human RX, Mirtazapine, for increasing appetite that is working on our pup who became reluctant to eat.

 

[jackio]

Could it be an ear problem? Also there is a human RX, Mirtazapine, for increasing appetite that is working on our pup who became reluctant to eat.

Thank you. I will ask the vet.

 

[AnnieBets]

Are you watching her when her stomach gurgles? If not, she may be having a seizure. The pacing afterward sounds like what my shepard would do right after. She would have them right from a deep sleep too. Older dogs can develop seizures that gradually worsen but there can also be environmental causes. As mine had more, vet put her on medicine to help prevent them but it had to be given every 12 hours. Hope this isn’t what is going on with yours.

 

[easyrider]

Thanks. I will ask the vet about it. We actually starting leaving a light on because we thought she may have suddenly become afraid of the dark. We will try darkening again.



Thanks. Our bowls are stainless, the same since we got her. I have been boiling chicken breasts to add extra protein to her food each feeding. The vet gave us some canned food especially for stomach distress but she refused it.

The oil is called NutraVent Hemp 500. It claims to help with a lot of things, but I do see her appetite increasing.

I was thinking she has some sort of cancer, because of the unexplained weight loss. Her labs and sono were fine. I don't want to put her through extensive testing because of her age.

I'm not certain that hemp oil supplements do much. I think it is Rick Simpson oil that is the sold at the pot stores or made at home that have the active ingredients. I haven't heard of using rso on dogs so I googled it and it looks like it is used on dogs and cats.
http://hempmedicineplant.weebly.com/cannabis-oil-dosage-animals.html
http://phoenixtears.ca/dosage-information/

 

[jackio]

I'm not certain that hemp oil supplements do much. I think it is Rick Simpson oil that is the sold at the pot stores or made at home that have the active ingredients. I haven't heard of using rso on dogs so I googled it and it looks like it is used on dogs and cats.
http://hempmedicineplant.weebly.com/cannabis-oil-dosage-animals.html
http://phoenixtears.ca/dosage-information/

Thank you.

Are you watching her when her stomach gurgles? If not, she may be having a seizure. The pacing afterward sounds like what my shepard would do right after. She would have them right from a deep sleep too. Older dogs can develop seizures that gradually worsen but there can also be environmental causes. As mine had more, vet put her on medicine to help prevent them but it had to be given every 12 hours. Hope this isn’t what is going on with yours.

Wow, thanks. I will ask the vet.

 

[heathpack]

What you are describing is very common as dogs age.

The biggest clue is the change in the sleep-wake cycle. That makes Canine Cognitive Dusfunction more likely. https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/behavior-counseling-senior-pet-cognitive-dysfunction

The main other possibility is a brain tumor. Causes very similar symptoms but usually not the specific anxiety at night. With a brain tumor it tends to be more random, although the night time anxiety is possible with a brain tumor.

Other things that may cause these same symptoms but less so in an older dog and less so with the specific nighttime anxiety are encephalitis (more common in young dogs), liver dysfunction (doesn’t always reveal itself on general blood work, requires a specific functional blood test called a bile acids), very rarely nutritional deficiency with a lot of alternative diets.

Not exactly sure what the gurgling stomach sounds are, but I occasionally have clients describe that type of thing with Canine Cognitive Dysfunction. Sometimes we find a cause, sometimes we never do.

The BD diet described in the article I linked to would be a reasonable thing to try. But I’d probably try a newer diet called Purina Neurocare. It’s got a high amount of a special kind of fat called medium chain triglycerides. If you try it, you have to give it a few months and the dog has to eat 80% or more of its food as Neurocare. It’s expensive of course and prescription only. This is an off label use for this diet so your vet might not be familiar with it.

If you want to know if there’s a brain tumor, your dog should go see a neurologist and they will look with an MRI. But if you don’t want to do that, sometimes it’s worth trying an anti inflammatory dose of a steroid like prednisone. The logic behind that is it might help brain swelling caused by a tumor but it won’t help Canine Cognitive Dysfunction (usually). So if your dog got way better with steroids, it tells you to keep looking for the cause of the problem. If he doesn’t get better, you don’t know anything, a steroid won’t always help a brain tumor.

I say steroids won’t help CCD but this is not always the case. My impression is that all kinds of chronic things (like arthritis or back pain or whatever) that the dog coped with just fine when his brain was healthy, suddenly become huge causes of anxiety/panic when the brain starts to get a little confused. It almost seems to me that dogs are suddenly scared by their chronic issues. So I try to treat every little thing I find, just in case.

Mostly though dogs with Canine Cognitive Dysfunction are just very frustrating and stressful cases. It’s hard to pin down what’s going on and it seems like you’re constantly chasing an evolving situation. Sedatives/anti anxiety meds at night sometimes help- acepromazine and trazadone are what I usually start with personally.

 

[jackio]

Wow, heathpack, thank you SO much.

 

[Stressy]

Wow, heathpack, thank you SO much.

+1 for heathpack, excellent advice from a professional. Along with Cognitive Dysfunction and Dementia, and as a nurse yourself, think Sun Downers for the night problems if in fact it is dementia. My dachshunds are 12 and 16 next month. 16 sleeps the day away only rising to potty and eat. At night, she is anxious and clingy and goes through her paces, OCD licking, scratching bedding, etc. She has had 3 or 4 vestibular events (spinning in circles and eyes zinging from side to side, and rapid breathing) I was convinced it was a brain tumor but she never head pressed. These episodes were last year. and haven't returned. She is otherwise healthy as per tests, xrays and Vet visits. It's simply our "new normal" I'm considering CBD oil for her as well. As I told my Vet, she can be old, she just can't be uncomfortable. I hope you find a way to help her.

 

[jackio]

+1 for heathpack, excellent advice from a professional. Along with Cognitive Dysfunction and Dementia, and as a nurse yourself, think Sun Downers for the night problems if in fact it is dementia. My dachshunds are 12 and 16 next month. 16 sleeps the day away only rising to potty and eat. At night, she is anxious and clingy and goes through her paces, OCD licking, scratching bedding, etc. She has had 3 or 4 vestibular events (spinning in circles and eyes zinging from side to side, and rapid breathing) I was convinced it was a brain tumor but she never head pressed. These episodes were last year. and haven't returned. She is otherwise healthy as per tests, xrays and Vet visits. It's simply our "new normal" I'm considering CBD oil for her as well. As I told my Vet, she can be old, she just can't be uncomfortable. I hope you find a way to help her.

Thank you. I did consider Sundown.
I totally agree with you. I just want her to be comfortable.
But I want to get some sleep too LOL

 

[Firepath]

Heathpack, what good information, thank you! I was really surprised last year to have our 14 yr. old Springer diagnosed with Cognitive Dysfunction and Dementia. I had never even thought of dogs becoming "senile," but our veterinarian said it really is fairly common in older dogs. He did mention the possibility of a brain tumor but felt it was more likely Dementia due to her age and that it was definately worse in the evenings. She would pace, lick her feet obsessively, stare at the walls while trembling for no apparent reason and then, although she had always been a very quiet dog, she started literally screaming for us in the middle of the night or very early in the morning. She wasn't in any physical pain, just very anxious whenever she was awake (thankfully she slept a lot). She had little hearing left and her eyesight was failing too. Her doctor recommended we have nightlights throughout the house so she could find her way around when it was dark so she had one less thing to be anxious about. She was prescribed a mild sedative which we gave her daily and that seemed to help some. It's so hard to watch our old dogs go through this.

 

[mrsstats]

Dogs do become senile. Mine did. Personality changed, would spend most of her time alone in the closet (we gave her a bed in there). finally we had to have her put to sleep at age 15. Good luck.

 

[Stressy]

Thank you. I did consider Sundown.
I totally agree with you. I just want her to be comfortable.
But I want to get some sleep too LOL

LOL! I totally get that. At our house, routine makes a big difference as well. Since I am off calendar (summer break) I stay up later, so does she, because in her entire life she has refused to go to bed without me. This just leads to more anxiety over where I am and when I'm going to bed. When I'm on calendar, I started trying to go to bed sooner because I knew she would go through her anxiety behaviors for at least 30 min before she would settle and we could go to sleep. You have had a move and possibly a recent schedule change (unless you are more disciplined than I Those could be contributing factors as well. Just thinking out loud. When did you add the melatonin? That helped tremendously with a friends dachshund who exhibited the same symptoms as yours. They were also not sleeping . Did it not help?

 

[Patri]

I'm learning a lot here, and I don't even have a dog!

 

[jackio]

LOL! I totally get that. At our house, routine makes a big difference as well. Since I am off calendar (summer break) I stay up later, so does she, because in her entire life she has refused to go to bed without me. This just leads to more anxiety over where I am and when I'm going to bed. When I'm on calendar, I started trying to go to bed sooner because I knew she would go through her anxiety behaviors for at least 30 min before she would settle and we could go to sleep. You have had a move and possibly a recent schedule change (unless you are more disciplined than I Those could be contributing factors as well. Just thinking out loud. When did you add the melatonin? That helped tremendously with a friends dachshund who exhibited the same symptoms as yours. They were also not sleeping . Did it not help?

She starts out fine, and starts in with the behaviors somewhere between 3 and 5 am. She goes to bed without me, it's staying asleep that's the problem. I am home during the day now, so maybe she's not taking the naps she usually does while I work.

And it seems that it's the stomach gurgling that wakes her up. Her stomach gurgles during the day, too, but that doesn't seem to bother her. It's crazy.

We started out with the Zantac and the Melatonin, then the vet gave us the rx for Xanax. I switched her back to Melatonin because I felt sorry for her. The poor thing was so stoned, she had rubbery legs while walking. And she didn't sleep any better.

We have had some success, I guess. While she still gets up and paces, she is not panting as hard and is not as frantic as she was in the beginning.

We will take her back to the vet and ask them about the food and the meds that heathpack suggested.

Thank you Stressy

 

[Stressy]

All the best, Jackie. It's so hard to watch and then to know what to do. Just know there are others experiencing the same thing that you are. We love them so much.

 

[Born2Travel]

I'm learning a lot here, and I don't even have a dog!

Me too, though we do have a 16 year old cat. Do cats go through this too?

 

[WBP]

We had an eleven year old (big dog) who developed Canine Cognitive Dysfunction. Our Veterinarian recommended a supplement called Neutricks, for Canine Cognitive Dysfunction. It took six weeks to build up a decent level, and once he did, our dog was back to himself, 100% (on Neutricks). We found the best price for Neutricks at Countryside Pet Supply of West Plains, MO.

Our dog stayed on Neutricks for 18 months, until his death, and had a great quality of life on Neutricks. The Neutricks really worked, and has credible science and veterinary medicine to support it.

I am not a Veterinarian, but what you describe sounds familiar. I don't know that I'd give a Hemp product with Neutricks. I guess, I'd really like to know what I was treating. In your dog's case, it sounds very similar to our dog's Canine Cognitive Dysfunction.