[2018] Slim pickings on resale

[CO skier]

I ended with the 801,000 club access. After asking a couple of questions I was told all 801,000 points for 2018 are still available. With the Wyndham wait time I will probably only have 3 at most 4 monthly payments and all the points. As long as I can make good use of them I think I came out really well especially considering where we were 4 months ago with contract cost.

Killer deal, and there are still many more out there like it.

Makes me start to believe the theory on Wyndham buying back contracts. Something or someone was driving up the price there for a few months.

Why? EBay pricing for Wyndham points has been seasonally cyclical for the last 10 years. If Ovation is having any effect, why are there so many reasonably priced Club Wyndham contracts available on EBay, TUG Marketplace, TUG bargain bin, and other sources?

 

[CO skier]

Believe it we used to buy on ebay and turn right around and sell to Wyndham at a profit. There was a short time a few years ago when we drove prices up to $15/1000 points

When? Certainly not on "everyday" contracts.

There have been $1 Wyndham UDI points timeshare available since 2008. The low maintenance fee contracts have always sold at a premium, even up to $15-$20 per 1000, and they still sell in this range; there was no "driving up prices on these contracts" or any other contracts that I could see. There are always outliers, as noted in post #69 , but this is not the "market".

 

[chriskre]

Going into the summer season, there is a fair amount of supply selling on EBay for some reasonable prices from a buyer's view. There are quite a number of "Best Offers" accepted.

These are a few of the bargains at bid prices.

500,000 Club Access $5.90/1000
https://www.ebay.com/itm/500-000-An...928826?hash=item1cabd4b77a:g:h0MAAOSwax5Y1ukc

506,000 Club Access $3.90/1000 all in
https://www.ebay.com/itm/506-000-An...893093?hash=item441d82e2a5:g:heYAAOSw~6dayUu9

801,000 Club Access $4.75 all in
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Wyndham-Po...009787?hash=item1caba82cfb:g:cPwAAOSwb-tanIyx

154,000 Grand Desert $3.25/1000
https://www.ebay.com/itm/WYNDHAM-GRAND-DESERT-RESORT-154-000-POINTS-LAS-VEGAS-NEVADA-TIMESHARE-/183231854246?hash=item2aa97836a6:g:Q4gAAOSwAvJW-~lm&nma=true&si=YypFKrQ9XRhTftTb9%2Bv%2Br3v%2FKI4%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

126,000 Grand Desert $8.67/1000 (This shows how EBay pricing can be all over the map; "comps" don't mean much on EBay. Someone overpaid, but maybe it was just what they wanted.)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/WYNDHAM-PO...448963?hash=item1cac19b043:g:VpsAAOSwpoNanIzE

154,000 Waikiki Beach $14.25/1000 (Which is about average for low maintenance fee Hawaii resorts)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/WYNDHAM-WA...303082?hash=item3b0d5d84aa:g:ZIIAAOSwk-9Zf5nh

Royal Vista $5.20/1000 all in
https://www.ebay.com/itm/WYNDHAM-RO...403028?hash=item3d6465df94:g:rk4AAOSwvHRa3TAb

Lots more, and this is different than years past. Usually prices are headed up by this time of year. Today is as good a time as any to snipe an auction and pick up a bargain.

That royal vista was nice for $100
Glad I didn’t see it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ronparise]

When? Certainly not on "everyday" contracts.

There have been $1 Wyndham UDI points timeshare available since 2008. The low maintenance fee contracts have always sold at a premium, even up to $15-$20 per 1000, and they still sell in this range; there was no "driving up prices on these contracts" or any other contracts that I could see. There are always outliers, as noted in post #69 , but this is not the "market".

I think thats a good point... You didnt see everything, and perhaps you saw nothing

There were three years when I was buying and selling 20 million points a year. I (along with a few others doing the same thing) was the market. When Wyndham was buying, prices went up, and when Wyndham stopped buying, prices went down. The best example was when CWA contracts went up to $20/1000 and then crashed to the point you couldnt give them away. It all had to do with wyndham's repurchase program

 

[Jan M.]

I think thats a good point... You didnt see everything, and perhaps you saw nothing

There were three years when I was buying and selling 20 million points a year. I (along with a few others doing the same thing) was the market. When Wyndham was buying, prices went up, and when Wyndham stopped buying, prices went down. The best example was when CWA contracts went up to $20/1000 and then crashed to the point you couldnt give them away. It all had to do with wyndham's repurchase program

You would be aware of some things very few other people, and probably no one else here on TUG, would because you were involved in it. You knew you had a market, what your buyer typically paid and what was a good price for you to pay when you were the buyer. Anyone who followed your story after August 2016 knows you are a shrewd businessman. Things may have changed in the year? you've no longer been a player in that game but you have the experience to know what you're seeing in the market, to still be able to make an accurate assessment.

 

[schoolmarm]

From "pool talk" with another owner at National Harbor this week...they said that their sales person said that Wyndham has a team of 6-8 people who are buying up the resales on eBay and other places. Same salesperson said that Wyndham has some resorts that have a "right of first refusal".

Take the first statement with a grain of salt, as I do not believe the second statement is true.

 

[Avislo]

How many resorts Wyndham has that have a right to first refusal, I do not know. I have a Towers on Grove deeded that has a right of first refusal in it. Thanks for passing on the information.

 

[markb53]

From "pool talk" with another owner at National Harbor this week...they said that their sales person said that Wyndham has a team of 6-8 people who are buying up the resales on eBay and other places. Same salesperson said that Wyndham has some resorts that have a "right of first refusal".

Take the first statement with a grain of salt, as I do not believe the second statement is true.

My CWA contract has a right of first refusal in it. I would assume all CWA do.

 

[bendadin]

My CWA contract has a right of first refusal in it. I would assume all CWA do.

I got 400k CWA for $1. If any contract would have triggered ROFR, it would have been that one

 

[markb53]

I got 400k CWA for $1. If any contract would have triggered ROFR, it would have been that one

Doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Just means Wyndham wasn’t buying at the time. As Ron said they weren’t always in a buying mode. I remember hearing back a few few years that CWA could take longer to close even though there was no dead involved because it had to go through the ROFR process.

 

[CO skier]

I think thats a good point... You didnt see everything, and perhaps you saw nothing

There were three years when I was buying and selling 20 million points a year. I (along with a few others doing the same thing) was the market. When Wyndham was buying, prices went up, and when Wyndham stopped buying, prices went down. The best example was when CWA contracts went up to $20/1000 and then crashed to the point you couldnt give them away. It all had to do with wyndham's repurchase program

I would be very interested to see any documentation of CWA contacts selling for $20/1000 on a regular basis – maybe a month or two during the height of the buying season, but for a year or more, I doubt it. That was certainly never the case on Ebay. Ebay is not the "market", but it is the most transparent and accessible market.


I do not follow Ebay Wyndham timeshare pricing on a regular basis, but whenever there is a post about a "Jump In Wyndham Prices" I look at the recent Ebay pricing history, and have never reached that conclusion. I never saw where CWA contracts were selling on Ebay for $20/1000 on a regular basis. I did see where CWA contracts were selling for $5/1000 to $10/1000 on a regular basis, and that continues today. It goes all the way back to 2013.

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/royal-vista-195k-udi-ebay-sale-up-tick-in-value.198191/

EBay pricing is not that much different now than it was then.


I followed the current "Slim pickings on [Wyndham] resale" post to see if anything has changed over the last 5 years, and now 3 months later, EBay pricing is back to the low end of the cyclical range, as posted in #69 and there is considerably more supply than 3 months ago. If Wyndham were (or is) buying, wouldn’t they be buying during the busy summer season to replace sold inventory? Why are prices headed lower versus 3 months ago?

I do not see everything, and I may see nothing, but I continue to see what I have seen for the last 5 years. If you don’t like the Wyndham pricing today, wait a few months, and you may find it for a few hundred or a few thousand dollars less.

Just in this thread, a CWA sale was noted at $16/1000 in post #32 well after the changes to the Wyndham guidelines. Does that one sale represent the "market" for Wyndham? I am sure that brokers regularly sell Wyndham contracts (and not just CWA contracts) for $30+/1000; is that the "market price"? Brokers are probably still selling at the same price, while EBay is at $3.90/1000 to $5.90/1000 for CWA and Best Offers for other contracts and $1 plus closing and transfer for others. Which pricing represents "the market"?

There is not a lot of transparency to determine the "market price" for Wyndham contracts, or to make determinations if prices are headed up, or not. For now looking at EBay sales, apparently not, just like in 2013 before Ovation.

 

[ronparise]

I would be very interested to see any documentation of CWA contacts selling for $20/1000 on a regular basis – maybe a month or two during the height of the buying season, but for a year or more, I doubt it. That was certainly never the case on Ebay. Ebay is not the "market", but it is the most transparent and accessible market.


I do not follow Ebay Wyndham timeshare pricing on a regular basis, but whenever there is a post about a "Jump In Wyndham Prices" I look at the recent Ebay pricing history, and have never reached that conclusion. I never saw where CWA contracts were selling on Ebay for $20/1000 on a regular basis. I did see where CWA contracts were selling for $5/1000 to $10/1000 on a regular basis, and that continues today. It goes all the way back to 2013.

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/royal-vista-195k-udi-ebay-sale-up-tick-in-value.198191/

EBay pricing is not that much different now than it was then.


I followed the current "Slim pickings on [Wyndham] resale" post to see if anything has changed over the last 5 years, and now 3 months later, EBay pricing is back to the low end of the cyclical range, as posted in #69 and there is considerably more supply than 3 months ago. If Wyndham were (or is) buying, wouldn’t they be buying during the busy summer season to replace sold inventory? Why are prices headed lower versus 3 months ago?

I do not see everything, and I may see nothing, but I continue to see what I have seen for the last 5 years. If you don’t like the Wyndham pricing today, wait a few months, and you may find it for a few hundred or a few thousand dollars less.

Just in this thread, a CWA sale was noted at $16/1000 in post #32 well after the changes to the Wyndham guidelines. Does that one sale represent the "market" for Wyndham? I am sure that brokers regularly sell Wyndham contracts (and not just CWA contracts) for $30+/1000; is that the "market price"? Brokers are probably still selling at the same price, while EBay is at $3.90/1000 to $5.90/1000 for CWA and Best Offers for other contracts and $1 plus closing and transfer for others. Which pricing represents "the market"?

There is not a lot of transparency to determine the "market price" for Wyndham contracts, or to make determinations if prices are headed up, or not. For now looking at EBay sales, apparently not, just like in 2013 before Ovation.

Im sure you are right

What I remember is just that, a few months. Wyndham didnt often buy CWA contracts so when they did there was some comoetition for them...If not $20 it was $ 15. I am getting older and my memory is not what it used to be.. what I remember most clearly was the swing in the other direction, because thats when I bought

You are missing the point Im trying to make here, and this is the first time Ive revealed this. And the actual price has nothing to do with it. and the point is this.

Wyndham routinely bought back contracts, The usual criteria were, 300000 points or more, UDI contracts but sometimes we could get rid of CWA and converted fixed weeks. and smaller contracts, Although I think the weeks and small contracts were just a concession, I dont remember ever getting paid for them. I never dealt directly with wyndham. I knew a guy who worked with Wyndhams agents. so I never knew what exactly wyndham was paying. There were two ahead of me getting paid for what I could deliver

I bought on ebay and the price I paid varied according to what wyndham was buying.... Thats a fact

 

[chriskre]

Im sure you are right

What I remember is just that, a few months. Wyndham didnt often buy CWA contracts so when they did there was some comoetition for them...If not $20 it was $ 15. I am getting older and my memory is not what it used to be.. what I remember most clearly was the swing in the other direction, because thats when I bought

You are missing the point Im trying to make here, and this is the first time Ive revealed this. And the actual price has nothing to do with it. and the point is this.

Wyndham routinely bought back contracts, The usual criteria were, 300000 points or more, UDI contracts but sometimes we could get rid of CWA and converted fixed weeks. and smaller contracts, Although I think the weeks and small contracts were just a concession, I dont remember ever getting paid for them. I never dealt directly with wyndham. I knew a guy who worked with Wyndhams agents. so I never knew what exactly wyndham was paying. There were two ahead of me getting paid for what I could deliver

I bought on ebay and the price I paid varied according to what wyndham was buying.... Thats a fact

So you were bird dogging.
Nice gig, right from your computer.
I like it. That's the kind of real estate that's fun.
Good for you to figure it all out.

 

[Dave Landry]

I also wonder if prices might fluctuate because of a group of people who learn about resales at around the same time by seeing someone's Facebook post after having attended a meeting? Almost any bid on Ebay would seem like a bargain after being offered a contract for 148/1000 or more. Then again there may be no rhyme or reason to price fluctuations except for who is in the market to purchase and how much they are willing to pay. If I have been reading correctly what all of you have been stating over the past couple years in different posts, Wyndham has never really publicly announced they are buying back contracts except through the Ovations program. And they probably would not want to as they obviously would want to get them for as low a price as possible also.

I am extremely grateful for this forum and all the great information in it. I am also very thankful of the help Ron has given me when I understood less than nothing about timeshares enabling me to purchase a small contract that I feel I got for a fair price and am happy with. I think the end game is won if you find something you are willing and able to pay for that works to your benefit! There are many with VIP status who are happy with their purchase and many who are happy with the bargains of resale!

I am definitely watching the different sales venues lately and if the right deal comes along may purchase more.

 

[Avislo]

Maybe the name of the contact and how to contact them would be useful to some.

 

[Dave Landry]

Maybe the name of the contact and how to contact them would be useful to some.

From earlier posts I don't believe he is allowed to share any of that information.

 

[Avislo]

Wyndham call center gave the name of Timeshare Broker Associates LLC, 877 624-6889 if someone wants to sell a timeshare. Timeshare Broker Associates LLC indicates they are designated a preferred Wyndham re-seller by Wyndham.

 

[ronparise]

Wyndham call center gave the name of Timeshare Broker Associates LLC, 877 624-6889 if someone wants to sell a timeshare. Timeshare Broker Associates LLC indicates they are designated a preferred Wyndham re-seller by Wyndham.

Good information but it’s a so what. Here’s why

When I was doing this there were 3 brokers that identified themselves as preferred Wyndham resellers: 1) RPMI 2) Mike Murphy and 3) Judy Kosloski (I think)


As I said in my post above I never dealt directly with the agent that represented Wyndham. I did talk to each of the above three and they all denied that Wyndham was buying back. I had to deal with a middle man who prepared the new deeds to some LLC and paid me. As time went in I figured out that Wyndham was the ultimate buyer and I’m sure that RPMI was part of at least a few of the deals I did

And by the way I’m pretty sure wyndham is still doing this but through different brokers perhaps the one named in the post I quoted. But I don’t think you could do it on a grand scale. I’m almost positive that I if I had something to sell to day I could sell it back to Wyndham. With a couple of phone calls I could figure out the current path back to the mother ship

But here’s the thing. When I was doing this I was paying as much as a $15/1000 points and selling for $0-$5/1000 points and I still made a profit because I had stripped 3 years of points from the contract and paid as little as 3 months mf. Turned out Wyndham didn’t like that, (in spite of the fact that they resold this stuff for as much as $200/1000 points) so they shut me down, got new preferred resale brokers, they insist on all points being in the contract and they ended the points credit pool that made it all possible

So don’t anyone think that they can pick up where I left off

 

[Avislo]

Thank-you for the information. For anyone wanting to know the name of the LLC involved, it should be easy enough to find the owner of record. Look at resorts Ron was known to have a interest in. Check the county court house for Ron Parise and see who the buyer of record was and subsequent buyer of record

 

[Braindead]

Thank-you for the information. For anyone wanting to know the name of the LLC involved, it should be easy enough to find the owner of record. Look at resorts Ron was known to have a interest in. Check the county court house for Ron Parise and see who the buyer of record was and subsequent buyer of record

TUG now has a Private Investigator
Avislo — Robert

 

[ronparise]

If you want to sell back to Wyndham just call Ovation. Unless you are a mega renter that they want to put out of business you won’t get paid

 

[Railman83]

The original post was a comment on the snapshot of availability at the time. EBay has inventory now but other sites are still short.

 

[Avislo]

The first poster stated "One wonders if this is all Ovation?" It is my understanding of the program that it includes making a referral to their preferred Wyndham resellers. I have seen very little on these re-sellers. Ron's post was educational. Hopefully others will pick up on this aspect and share info on these groups.

 

[Railman83]

The first poster stated "One wonders if this is all Ovation?" It is my understanding of the program that it includes making a referral to their preferred Wyndham resellers. I have seen very little on these re-sellers. Ron's post was educational. Hopefully others will pick up on this aspect and share info on these groups.

A big multiple dozens of ads seller on myresortnetwork is on Ron’s shortlist and they have no inventory anymore and haven’t for awhile

 

[Avislo]

Thanks for the info.