Sales Scare Tactic - Deeded Owner Special Assessments

[brattom]

Forgive me if any of my understanding of this is incorrect. We've been longtime CWP owners at Governor's Green and recently attended an "update" there. We haven't been to one in years, and honestly don't pay much attention to the changes in the program, since our ownership in very small, and the cost isn't really that significant. We mostly use it to go to Williamsburg once a year on a long weekend. My mom is a Platinum VIP in Access, so we occasionally use her points for bigger vacations, but someday (hopefully not for a long time) we will probably have the option of inheriting a bunch of points. We figured we should be a little more knowledgable before that happens.

The sales rep was trying to push us toward converting to the Access program. Her main selling point was that as more deeded owners at GG convert to Access, there will be fewer to pay for special assessments if/when GG does a refurbishment. Therefore, we will be paying more as the assessment is now divided between fewer owners. She didn't like me arguing that my $$$ break-even point after converting/buying would probably be well after I am dead.

I didn't stick around to here the rest of the talk, since they promised 60 minutes and were already at 90.

Here's my question:

All those deeds don't just magically disappear when people converted to Access. Doesn't that just mean that Wyndham now owns them, instead of individuals? Wouldn't Wyndham be responsible for whatever special assessments might be applied based on their percentage of ownership of those deeds? Real property doesn't just evaporate.

Thanks.

Tom

 

[Avislo]

Depends who ends up with ownership of the deeded one(s). If CWA gets them they get the fees, if a Wyndham Group ends us with them then it would be them. Again, it depends on who ends up with the ownership.

 

[ecwinch]

It is a sales lie. As you have surmised, when a CWP owner converts to CWA, their financial responsibility at the resort is transferred to CWA. So the same number of unit/weeks (CWA + CWP) are still making payment on the special assessment.

The slight advantage that CWA offers is that a special assessment at one of the CWA resorts is spread over all the CWA owners - so in theory CWA dues should be less "lumpy", as the impact is spread over a larger number of owners. Likewise the dues will be blended dues - averaging out high m/f resorts with lower m/f resorts. But as you figured out, that advantage is wiped out by the conversion costs.

 

[Jan M.]

CWA maintenance fees are higher than those at many resorts plus they've seen bigger yearly increases too in many cases. It was developed as a lifesaver for Wyndham to unload the deeds at resorts that weren't selling and those that had high maintenance fees. It was a genius idea on someone's part. Wyndham uses a number of scare tactics to sell CWA.

Just in the past couple of days someone started thread after they attended a sales presentation where the sales person was trying to convince them to roll over some of their CWA points in favor of being deeded at a resort that would give them more points for the same maintenance fees. I commented that sales has now come full circle and instead of trying to convince people to give up their deeded ownerships for CWA they are now trying to convince people to give up CWA for deeded points.

 

[brattom]

That's funny. I guess they have different tactics with the goal of selling something to everyone! I almost lost my **** when she started into the "think of your children and what this burden will do them" tactic. She totally dodged when I asked when the break-even year would be for me.

Tom

 

[puppymommo]

I guess they have different tactics with the goal of selling something to everyone!

Exactly. They are trained to use whatever tactic they think will work with you. Usually it is some form of "there is a problem with your contract and you need to buy more points to fix it".

 

[vacationhopeful]

....it is some form of "there is a problem with your contract and you need to buy more points to fix it".

Comment to your partner/spouse, "Houston, we have a problem." Laughter is the best weapon on sales weasals ... just don't clue them in on that the 'joke is on them'.

AKA ... as all kids we all heard growing up - "Stop laughing; this is SERIOUS business!"

 

[Braindead]

This thread actually brings up a very serious question.
Does CWA own a fraction of every room at a particular HOA like a regular UDI contract owner? Then any assessments would be equally spread out per point of ownership.

Or are there some resorts that CWA owns certain rooms - floors - buildings?Some have thought this in the past. Then all assessments may not be spread out equally.

 

[ecwinch]

At the core, I dont see how it would matter. Points are just a proxy for the underlying real property.

 

[Braindead]

At the core, I dont see how it would matter. Points are just a proxy for the underlying real property.

Is it possible CWA has its own HOA at some resorts. Like some resorts have more than 1 HOA. If you own in a building or a HOA not effected by a hurricane. Would you be hit equally by a special assessment ?
Has CWA converted all deeded weeks to points?

 

[ecwinch]

Is it possible CWA has its own HOA at some resorts. Like some resorts have more than 1 HOA. If you own in a building or a HOA not effected by a hurricane. Would you be hit equally by a special assessment ?
Has CWA converted all deeded weeks to points?

I do not see where CWA would have their own HOA at the resort level. What would be the point, the HOA would only have 1 member - CWA.

The underlying real estate is what is hit with the assessment. Points just determine what your share of the assessment will be. So the conversion of weeks is moot.

If my building was not damaged, then I still could be assessed for any damage to the common areas (i.e. lobby, pool, etc) - if any.

 

[Braindead]

I do not see where CWA would have their own HOA at the resort level. What would be the point, the HOA would only have 1 member - CWA.

The underlying real estate is what is hit with the assessment. Points just determine what your share of the assessment will be. So the conversion of weeks is moot.

If my building was not damaged, then I still could be assessed for any damage to the common areas (i.e. lobby, pool, etc) - if any.

I agree with you. None of it should matter. But it’s Wyndham and so many secrets it seems like between Wyndham and CWA. They have total control. The next time owners are hit with a special assessment it will be interesting if CWA owners are hit also. Or will CWA pay with what seems like a second reserve fund held by CWA as discussed before. The $.12 reserve fund that shows on MFs for CWA owners

 

[hjsweet2002]

Last year we attended a presentation at Governeur Green. They told us we had over 400 a month special assessment coming due but if we bought a acesss contract they would waive the special assessment. What a big lie. Love Wyndham but hate their sales operations.

 

[cayman01]

Went to an update today. Asked specifically about inventory splits between CWA and deeded. One salesperson said they are split for ARP and then blended at 10 months with only CWA being allowed to crossover and use deeded inventory. I called BS. He brought another guy over and he said they stay split.

The interesting thing was he says that I will not see any CWA inventory in my account because I own no CWA points. And vice versa. Those who have a little of each see both inventories.

The question to ask is if if I have 100k of one type and 100k of another can I make a reservation for 154k points at that resort or will software say there is no availability for those dates? Didn’t get to that question as the salesperson and I had had enough of each other at that point.

Actually a decent update. Learned a few things. Have to verify them though. Attempting to get a straight up
Number out of these guys is an exercise in futility though.

 

[Avislo]

I have a small CWA contract with the balance being deeded properties. As far as I can tell, I can see inventory in both systems.

I have not had any significant problems using my points that I have noticed.

 

[kaljor]

I'm pretty sure that at 10 months out points are points.

 

[ecwinch]

The question to ask is if if I have 100k of one type and 100k of another can I make a reservation for 154k points at that resort or will software say there is no availability for those dates? Didn’t get to that question as the salesperson and I had had enough of each other at that point.

Any information gleaned from sales has to be double-verified. As others have said, there is only one time when CWA inventory is separate - and that is with ARP (10-13 months out). Everyone has the same access inside 10 months.

The other catch is that if you have 100k of CWA points then you limited to using that amount for a ARP reservation. So in your example, you would not be able to book a 154k reservation during ARP. But at the 10 month mark, you would be fine.

 

[cayman01]

Any information gleaned from sales has to be double-verified. As others have said, there is only one time when CWA inventory is separate - and that is with ARP (10-13 months out). Everyone has the same access inside 10 months.

The other catch is that if you have 100k of CWA points then you limited to using that amount for a ARP reservation. So in your example, you would not be able to book a 154k reservation during ARP. But at the 10 month mark, you would be fine.

I understand what you are saying but the reason for my questions to him is I wanted to know at less than ten months. Who is my competition for reservations. We don’t use ARP. If I only have to compete with deeded owners I’m good with that. The second salesperson who seemed more knowledgeable said that was the case.

I agree with trust but verify and that is what I intend to do.

 

[paxsarah]

I understand what you are saying but the reason for my questions to him is I wanted to know at less than ten months. Who is my competition for reservations.

Well, I'm not quite sure how asking a salesperson (or two salespeople) is supposed to get you a better answer than this forum with years of use by actual owners. There is no evidence that the salespeople (a) know what they're talking about from an operational standpoint, or (b) aren't lying just to satisfy your question. Whereas you know that the vast majority of the people here know what they're talking about and who to trust.

 

[theo]

We've been completely out of Wyndham for nearly a decade now. Just the same, I never cease to be amazed that an otherwise decent timeshare system consistently has such an unlimited supply of lying, deceitful sales weasels who will say virtually anything to get them through the moment.
I dare say that in the timeshare industry in the U.S., only Westgate is worse in that regard (...and not by much).

 

[Avislo]

Per Wyndham reservations, at the 10 month point CWA and CWP points can still be used at the combined inventory for both programs.

You can verify this issue by calling Wyndham Reservations yourself and here it from the horse's mouth. They are the ones who make the reservations if someone calls in.

 

[spackler]

Any information gleaned from sales has to be double-verified...

In writing. Always in writing. Verbal statements/promises are meaningless.