Sales pitch at Westin Desert Willow Villas

[regatta333]

My husband and I are staying at the Desert Willow Villas this week and decided to attend their sales presentation to find out more about the Starwood program. We are long-time Wyndham owners, but were looking for a way to possibly buy into a program that would give us a good value for converting to hotel stays. I asked my husband to summarize the offer below, because after 4 hours, my eyes were starting to glaze over. We did manage to walk away without a major purchase, saying we needed to evaluate the offer and could not really do so on the spot after 4 tiring hours. We only committed to the Explorer Package (about $2K), which essentially got us 80K starpoints and a return visit here for 3 nights sometime during the next 2 years, during which time they try to resell us. Below is my husband's summary of the offer on the table today, which they would still honor tomorrow.

We attended the sales presentation today at The Westin Desert Willow Villas in Palm Desert, CA. After we indicated a preference for converting into Star Points (SP) they shifted from a platinum villa sale mode ($58k for 2-BR convertible to 72k SP) to selling points from the Mexico club collection.

Purchase two 81,000 point packages for a total of $56,700 plus $800 closing costs. It would be 3-star Elite status allowing us to convert annually into 84,000 SP. The promotions are: gold card status for life and 200k SP (later bumped up to 250k). If we bought it using the Explorer option ($1745 plus $199 fee) it would add 80k SP plus 35k more by foregoing the 4 day/3 night return visit. Also, if my husband and I each signed up for AmEx cards we’d each get 25k SP and then whatever amount of the purchase we charged to AmEx would earn 2x SP. No interest on AmEx for one year. MF = $2,350.

OR, purchase a single 81,000 package for half the price ($28,350), gold card status, and 100k SP. (No change to Explorer or AmEx signup except we would be charging less to the AmEx card.) Half cost for MF. 3-star Elite status not included.

Interestingly, they are mainly selling 2019 units as sales have been so robust. (They said that the villa sales price was $44k 2 months ago.) Buying the point package allows one the option to purchase up to 6 SP certificates over the next 2 years to obtain either 90k or 110k SP for $1,875 or $2,275, respectively, for each certificate.

What do you think of these offers?

 

[DeniseM]

Buying a timeshare to convert to Starpoints is almost never a good deal.

-If you crunch the numbers you find that just paying for hotel rooms is usually cheaper than the cost of buying a timeshare and paying ever increasing maintenance fees.

-The number of Starpoints you get will never increase. So in 10 years your maintenance fee may be twice as much, and the cost of points required for hotel reservations twice as much, but your Starpoints are static, so they will have half of the value that you started with.

-These are voluntary resorts. That means the Staroptions and Starpoints do not transfer upon resale, so as soon as you walk out the door, your contracts have zero value.

-3 Star Elite doesn't really have any value - certainly not enough to pay thousands to the developer.

-SPG Gold status is really easy to get, so the value is limited. (You don't have to buy a timeshare to get it.)

-Anyone can get an AMEX SPG card.

I'm sorry, but I don't think this is a good value - certainly not for a voluntary resort. If you are going to buy from the developer you should at least buy a resale first so you can requalify it.

 

[regatta333]

Denise,
Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply. I suspected as much and should really know better after so many years as a Wyndham owner.
These sales people can be very persuasive, especially after you get to the fourth person in the chain. I did know better than to sign up without
further research.

I did voice my concerns about the fact that there would be zero resale value for the voluntary resorts, and they were honest enough to say not
to buy with any resale expectation but to get the value of it during the time we own it. They did offer a mandatory resort in Hawaii for significantly
more money and a very high maintenance fee. I asked about Westin Kierland and they claimed there is a huge waiting list for ownership there and that there was no chance I could ever get that on a resale because of ROFR.

So sounds like we need to do a lot more homework before we come back and honestly, I am not sure I am as interested in the Starpoints conversion as my husband was. What did sound like it might have some appeal was the ability 168K Staroptions into almost 6 weeks of vacation by reserving studio units for deposit to Interval and exchanging during their FLEXCHANGE period.

As Wyndham owners, we are currently stuck with RCI, which is terrible for getting good exchanges within 60 days. We have a lot of flexibility now that we are retired and have gotten some great exchanges through the Interval account of a friend of my husband's when she had weeks that were going to expire unused (hence, our stay at the Westin this week). However, I'm not sure that a Starwood purchase is the best way of getting our own Interval account and the ability to take advantage of their last minute exchanges.

 

[vacationtime1]

. . . .

I did voice my concerns about the fact that there would be zero resale value for the voluntary resorts, and they were honest enough to say not
to buy with any resale expectation but to get the value of it during the time we own it. They did offer a mandatory resort in Hawaii for significantly
more money and a very high maintenance fee. I asked about Westin Kierland and they claimed there is a huge waiting list for ownership there and that there was no chance I could ever get that on a resale because of ROFR.

. . . .

There is no ROFR at Kierland.

In additional to the voodoo economics, you were lied to.

 

[okwiater]

There is no ROFR at Kierland.

In additional to the voodoo economics, you were lied to.

Correct. There is no ROFR at Westin Kierland, and there is also no "waiting list" for ownership.

Occasionally the developer does get a unit back, but it would be through trade-in or, I suppose, DIL if there are any active mortgages still out there. I bought one of my two Kierland units from the developer for about double the price of a resale, but I used the purchase to requalify a high-value voluntary unit and also to feel comfortable that my equity would be less likely to go to zero than it would be for another property.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Just an FYI, I pay $860 for 100,000 Starpoints. I buy gift cards (PM me for more info) for $3.95 worth 500 points ($500) each with my Starwood Amex. For every two cards I get a money order for .70 at Walmart. So that is $7.90 + .70. $8.60 per 1,000 points. That sounds like a lot of work, I know it does, but if you think of it as a hobby, it doesn't feel like work.

And some people feel that is expensive. Well, I can transfer those points to Amtrak. A sleeper car with private bathroom, to/ from Denver to San Francisco is about 60,000 points for two people. If you pay cash for it, it's about $1,900 for two people (includes meals, too).

Using Starpoints is fairly easy. When transferred to various airlines, you get a 25% bonus. So for 80,000 points, you get 100,000 points.

That Starpoints deal is NOT GOOD at all. And that is my point. You can build Starpoints cheaper using manufactured spend.

 

[DeniseM]

What did sound like it might have some appeal was the ability 168K Staroptions into almost 6 weeks of vacation by reserving studio units for deposit to Interval and exchanging during their FLEXCHANGE period.

This is another blatant lie you were told: You can only deposit EXACTLY what you own. So if you own two 1-bedrooms, then you can deposit two 1-bedrooms. You absolutely cannot deposit Staroption reservations.

 

[canesfan]

Another thing, sales aren’t so robust that they are only selling Mexico 2019. Most of that product isn’t available yet as it hasn’t been converted to TS. It just isn’t available for 2018!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[VacationForever]

This is another blatant lie you were told: You can only deposit EXACTLY what you own. So if you own two 1-bedrooms, then you can deposit two 1-bedrooms. You absolutely cannot deposit Staroption reservations.

I think sales was selling Flex Options for Aventuras. Technically, they could deposit low season TDI for studio size, which will essentially give them 6 studios to be used for trying to book during Flexchange period. While it is doable, it is ridiculous to expect the owner to be enslaved to trying to book during Flexchange.

 

[DeniseM]

I don't think that is how Home Options work. For II exchanges, I believe you use a chart - not actual reservations that you deposit.

 

[VacationForever]

I don't think that is how Home Options work. For II exchanges, I believe you use a chart - not actual reservations that you deposit.

The chart will show the respective size and TDI and deposit accordingly. It is that way for Marriott and Vistana point systems.

See the chart in this post.
Sheraton Flex is more flexible in II

 

[regatta333]

This is another blatant lie you were told: You can only deposit EXACTLY what you own. So if you own two 1-bedrooms, then you can deposit two 1-bedrooms. You absolutely cannot deposit Staroption reservations.

Denise,
They were offering to sell us a new product they are rolling out, so that we would not be deeded at any specific resort, but would have 162K Staroptions (I misspoke on the 168 K--I think that was the Starpoints conversion) in their Mexico collection of resorts. It sounded like they were starting to group their resorts into collections similar to what Diamond has done and you would buy into a collection.

They offered Mexico because it had the lowest maintenance fees ($1,150 per year). You would get 81K Staroptions each year, so I'm guessing this is the equivalent of an EOY platinum ownership. He said that these points could be deposited to Interval (I'm not sure if it would be a points deposit similar to what Wyndham now has, or you'd actually have to make a reservation to deposit) with the minimum being 28,350 points (a studio size) and used to make reservations during the FLEXCHANGE period.

 

[DeniseM]

Yes - This product has been discussed here, and Vistana has other products that work the same way. They are called Home Options, and Flex Options, depending on the resort. I guarantee that they misrepresented the value.

 

[VacationForever]

Yes - This product has been discussed here, and Vistana has other products that work the same way. They are called Home Options, and Flex Options, depending on the resort. I guarantee that they misrepresented the value.

Did you see the link that I posted in #11? It is how it works, but it is pretty miserable to use the ownership that way.

 

[regatta333]

Another thing, sales aren’t so robust that they are only selling Mexico 2019. Most of that product isn’t available yet as it hasn’t been converted to TS. It just isn’t available for 2018!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He did mention something along those lines. I think you had the ability to push maintenance fees out until 2018 or 2019 while they are rolling out the product. In the meanwhile, you could purchase certificates for Starpoints in 2018 and/or 2019, depending how long you deferred the maintenance. So you'd be prepaying for something you could not really use in the near term.

 

[regatta333]

Can anyone comment about his statement that the same $52,990 platinum ownership they were initially offering us at this resort was selling for $44 K a few months ago? Also, do they ever negotiate on the actual purchase price or only offer to throw in additional promotions while sticking firm to the price?

 

[VacationForever]

Can anyone comment about his statement that the same $52,990 platinum ownership they were initially offering us at this resort was selling for $44 K a few months ago? Also, do they ever negotiate on the actual purchase price or only offer to throw in additional promotions while sticking firm to the price?

Your best option is to buy a mandatory high / peak season resale like SVV (Key West and Bella) or WKV..

 

[duke]

You're getting taken for a ride. WDW and WMH are great local resorts and are easy to make reservations at within the 8 month window. If you want them, purchase a SVV resale as described above.

However, your best bet is to just rent from an owner and get the week and location you want. Rent will be close to the annual fees on most with no initial investment.

For StarPoints get the SPG AmEx while you can with the 35,000 point bonus. StarPoints and the AmEx are going bye bye next year anyway.

 

[Markus]

Can anyone comment about his statement that the same $52,990 platinum ownership they were initially offering us at this resort was selling for $44 K a few months ago? Also, do they ever negotiate on the actual purchase price or only offer to throw in additional promotions while sticking firm to the price?

I can confirm that this is true. The reason for the increase was to harmonize the price with the flex offerings. Prior to the increase, you could by 148,100 SOs for $44k. Pricing in spring of 2016 was actually under $40K.

Markus

 

[brianfox]

regatta, from your Q's it appears you are seriously considering buying from the developer. Denise and rickandcindy have both given great reasons not to do so. The TUG forums are filled with threads starting the way yours did and the vast majority of people realize they should purchase from the resale market - which is the real indicator of the value of the property. Many of those that don't take the advice soon start a thread asking how they can rescind on their purchase agreement...

Like you, I got into TS with the intention of depositing low value weeks into II and trading during Flexchange. Someone mention that was a painful process. They are understating it. It's horrible, and the pickings are slim. Sure, you can find occasional incredible weeks on Flexchange, but I found it not to be worth the trouble.

It's great that you are asking the Q's and trying to learn more. I urge you to research how much those points/weeks sell for on the resale market. You would be stunned. Also check out how much the units rent for.

 

[cubigbird]

Here's a listing from eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Westin-Desert-Willow-Resort-California-148-100-StarOption-Points-FREE-200-/122735932961?hash=item1c93a1b621:g:qJ4AAOSwSdFZg0Na&nma=true&si=DbASeAFp0cMak7Eyq%2F0BJ%2FmrFf0%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

A few considerations, this is from less than a month ago. As previously mentioned, WDW is voluntary so the Staroptions do not transfer, making this ad is misleading. This is also for a Platinum Plus week so you can see what a willing buyer purchased from a willing seller for a prime season week. If you REALLY want to buy at WDW I'd rather pay this or look for less, although I'd debate that whoever bought this listing overpaid, and once they found out the options don't transfer, I'm sure the transaction was cancelled. However I don't see that this listing was relisted.

 

[VacationForever]

Here's a listing from eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Westin-Desert-Willow-Resort-California-148-100-StarOption-Points-FREE-200-/122735932961?hash=item1c93a1b621:g:qJ4AAOSwSdFZg0Na&nma=true&si=DbASeAFp0cMak7Eyq%2F0BJ%2FmrFf0%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

A few considerations, this is from less than a month ago. As previously mentioned, WDW is voluntary so the Staroptions do not transfer, making this ad is misleading. This is also for a Platinum Plus week so you can see what a willing buyer purchased from a willing seller for a prime season week. If you REALLY want to buy at WDW I'd rather pay this or look for less, although I'd debate that whoever bought this listing overpaid, and once they found out the options don't transfer, I'm sure the transaction was cancelled. However I don't see that this listing was relisted.

I don't believe OP is looking to buy WDW. OP was referring to the Flex Options at Aventuras (Westin timeshare system in Mexico).

 

[regatta333]

regatta, from your Q's it appears you are seriously considering buying from the developer. Denise and rickandcindy have both given great reasons not to do so. The TUG forums are filled with threads starting the way yours did and the vast majority of people realize they should purchase from the resale market - which is the real indicator of the value of the property. Many of those that don't take the advice soon start a thread asking how they can rescind on their purchase agreement...

Like you, I got into TS with the intention of depositing low value weeks into II and trading during Flexchange. Someone mention that was a painful process. They are understating it. It's horrible, and the pickings are slim. Sure, you can find occasional incredible weeks on Flexchange, but I found it not to be worth the trouble.

It's great that you are asking the Q's and trying to learn more. I urge you to research how much those points/weeks sell for on the resale market. You would be stunned. Also check out how much the units rent for.

Thank you all for your insights. We will not be purchasing from the developer. In fact, in looking at the Explorer contract paperwork, it appears we can rescind that, which we will do since the amount paid for the Starpoints does not appear to be that great a deal and to get the other half of the 80K points, we'd have to return here for another sales presentation, which I don't really want to commit to now.

It seemed appealing to have the points, since we will be visiting my daughter and SIL in SE Asia (he is in the military and they are stationed there at the moment) and will be mainly staying in hotel properties in the countries we visit, so the points would have come in handy, but in terms of flexibility, cash is always king.

At some point in the future, we may decided to join the Starwood family, but would do so via resale at a mandatory resort. My husband is recently retired and we have a great deal of flexibility to travel now and have stayed at some amazing properties using II Flexchange (Hyatt Key West, Marriott Hilton Head, Hyatt Wild Oak Ranch, next week at Marriott Newport Coast). However, we have no immediate need to get our own II membership. My husband's friend is happy to let us use low cost studio deposits that would otherwise expire. She gets some cash to help offset her maintenance fees and sometimes we find an amazing trade. Otherwise, we have lots of Wyndham points and are very happy with the variety of resorts and locations in their system.

We are expecting our first grandchild in May, so I can visualize our travel needs changing in the future to more family-oriented vacations. At that point, it might make more sense to revisit adding to ownership, but it probably premature to do it now. As already mentioned, there are some great rental rates out there. I did want to laugh during the sales presentation when they mentioned that units here during the Coachella festival rent for as high as $7 K per week.

 

[regatta333]

Am I correct in equating the 81k Starpoints per year with an EOY Platinum membership? Is this new offering Starwood's effort to convert to a points model?

I'm guessing one of the disadvantages of this new type of ownership would be higher maintenance fees, while one of the advantages would be only having to deposit the number of points needed to get a desired trade. It also seems that you get a higher number of Starpoints if you choose to convert--84 K vs 74 K with an EOY platinum. Am I looking at this correctly?

 

[VacationForever]

Starpoints = Hotel reward points. Star Options = points used in the Vistana internal booking system.

81K Star Options are generally required to book 1BR unit during peak season. Buying from the developer always come with a Home resort use or Home Options (which can be used within a group of resorts) at 12 months out, and Star Options at 8 months out across all Vistana resorts in the system. Upon resale, Star Options only carry to new owners for the Mandatory resorts. We often advise newbies to buy Sheraton Vistana Villages - Key West or Bella phase for low buy in - about $1K to $2K which comes with 81K to 95.7K Star Options, Westin Kierland (Platinum season) - 2BR at $12-17K which comes with 148.1K Star Options or 1BR (Platinum Season) - about 4-8K, and comes with 67K or 81K Star Options depending on whether it is a small (deluxe) 1BR or large (Premium) 1BR.

I strongly suggest for you to spend time to read the stickies under this Vistana forum and to understand the program. It will become clearer after you go through all the materials.