ROFR metric / Ongoing ROFR Activity

[catharsis]

If it's a fractional purchase and the per week value is relatively low it might make sense for them to ROFR it. If it's just a high value, let's say $30K+, for something like Maui then it might be a first.

JiminNC, and I believe GregT in the past, did some analysis of Trust Points value by week against ROFR price and conjecture was that if the cost/point value was below a certain threshold they would take it. The unknowns were whether Marriott's ROFR budget operates on a weekly, monthly or annual basis. For weekly or monthly, they could have lots of low value acquisitions leaving them more money to work with, while a month with a bunch of $10-$20K ROFRs might limit what gets taken.

It was suggested to me by someone who might have knowledge of the subject that $2 per point is a metric used internally.

 

[JIMinNC]

It was suggested to me by someone who might have knowledge of the subject that $2 per point is a metric used internally.

I recently looked at the last 12 months or so of entries on ROFR.net for both phases of Maui Ocean Club and Waiohai and calculated the cost per point of the ROFR decision. It does seem many ROFR exercises occur at prices below $2/point, but there are some outliers, plus many that pass under $2/point. See attached image. Failures are noted in red

 

[catharsis]

Jim has done an excellent analysis which shows just how arbitrary the decision seems to be even for very similar units.

The number suggested to me was identified as a recent change in policy/valuation however, so I'm not sure how much an analysis that goes back more than a month or two tells us about what does feel to me like a tightening of policy this year
(I will get around to posting all of my ROFR failures on cheap ebay weeks this year but MVC are certainly not letting much through cheap anymore.)

 

[Seaport104]

I guess I am just trying to understand the best way to put these in to the ROFR.net database so people can start logging them.

Does it really matter which interest or quarter? Maybe just 3 selections for type 3/52, 5/52 and 1/4 and the various unit sizes as a drop down?

 

[dioxide45]

Does it really matter which interest or quarter? Maybe just 3 selections for type 3/52, 5/52 and 1/4 and the various unit sizes as a drop down?

I suppose it doesn't. So what unit sizes do they have there?

 

[jeff76543]

It might matter if some interests were far more attractive than others as a result of different seasons. I imagine that if this is the case it would be reflected in prices and, perhaps, the price MVC would be willing to pay to exercise ROFR.

 

[taterhed]

I have two points/questions: how many of the ROFR numbers submitted reflect the ACTUAL number submitted via the broker vs the contract amount between the broker and the buyer. I'm guessing that at least some of these may include 'pay to sell' prices between the seller and broker.....or maybe I'm just confused.

Second, I'm wondering if Marriott ROFR dept. actually has any subjective review processes in the ROFR decision. Let's say they were discouraging a particular practice or broker or ???? I wonder. Otherwise, it would see to make no sense in some cases.

 

[dioxide45]

I have two points/questions: how many of the ROFR numbers submitted reflect the ACTUAL number submitted via the broker vs the contract amount between the broker and the buyer. I'm guessing that at least some of these may include 'pay to sell' prices between the seller and broker.....or maybe I'm just confused.

Second, I'm wondering if Marriott ROFR dept. actually has any subjective review processes in the ROFR decision. Let's say they were discouraging a particular practice or broker or ???? I wonder. Otherwise, it would see to make no sense in some cases.

I don't think anyone can answer your first question. Many people know that they simply won an auction for X dollars but have no idea what was actually submitted for ROFR. It could have been Y and included broker, closing and other fees. The ROFR.net database is simply based on user feedback and it also contains only a small fraction of all ROFR submitted.

 

[Seaport104]

I suppose it doesn't. So what unit sizes do they have there?

Not 100% sure of all the sizes but to my knowledge there are

1 BR/1 Bath
1 BR/2 Bath
2BR/2 Bath
2BR/3 Bath
3 BR/4 Bath
3 BR Loft
3 BR Penthouse

This website, run by a GR owner, who rents out a lot of units for owners lists the various types of units.

http://heavenlyvillagecondos.com/Room_Types.html

It might matter if some interests were far more attractive than others as a result of different seasons. I imagine that if this is the case it would be reflected in prices and, perhaps, the price MVC would be willing to pay to exercise ROFR.

For the quarter ownerships, I don't think it matters much because all the weeks are rotated each year so that every owner gets the same week every 4 years. For the 5 and 3 week memberships, I think you're right. Those are I think based on season so that would definitely affect pricing.

 

[frank808]

Quarter shares are 13 weeks and 5/52 are 4 week ownerships. I dont remember anything smaller than 4 weeks at grc. I could be wrong but I was mainly interested in quarter shares.

Wow $38k for a 1br is good appreciation. The only other timeshare I can make money on besides dvc in all these years.

Pulling information on Grand Residence Club Lake Tahoe. I see the following different types of ownership;

Interest 01 5/52nds
Interest 02 5/52nds
Interest 03 5/52nds
Interest 04 5/52nds
Interest 05 5/52nds
Interest 06 5/52nds
Interest 07 5/52nds
Interest 08 5/52nds
Interest 09 3/52nds
Interest 10 5/52nds
Interest 11 5/52nds
Interest 12 3/52nds
Interest 12 5/52nds
Quarter I 1/4th
Quarter II 1/4th
Quarter III 1/4th
Quarter IV 1/4th

I am not sure what the 3/52 vs the 5/52, is there a difference? Do I perhaps have the 3/52nd identified wrong and they are really 5/52. Perhaps each interest can be a 3/52nd or 5/52nd? Quarter shares seem pretty straight forward. Just trying to determine what manner to add these to ROFR.net.

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[johnf0614]

Lost another. 2 BR EOY Grand Chateau. Added to the database.


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[NYFLTRAVELER]

I saw a 2br/2ba annual floating platinum @ Aruba Ocean club recently go on eBay for a “winning bid”of approx. $3900.what are the odds something like this passes rofr?

 

[Seaport104]

I saw a 2br/2ba annual floating platinum @ Aruba Ocean club recently go on eBay for a “winning bid”of approx. $3900.what are the odds something like this passes rofr?

Probably will not pass and I think one of the reasons why the bid is so low is the seller. If it were another seller I would have bid on it.

 

[StevenTing]

Lost another. 2 BR EOY Grand Chateau. Added to the database.


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Interesting. I thought GC didn’t have ROFR.

 

[johnf0614]

Interesting. I thought GC didn’t have ROFR.

They have 15 days. And they went up to the 14th day to decide on the one I was attempting to purchase.


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[amy241]

Using some of the theories on this thread, we restructured my purchase offer on a Marriott Ko Olina oceanview week to provide occupancy to begin in 2020 with a reservation for me in 2019 (and my agreement to pay the 2019 MFs) and they still exercised ROFR. I had hoped where they did not have usage in 2019, they would pass on the purchase but they did not.

 

[Mlvnsmly]

Using some of the theories on this thread, we restructured my purchase offer on a Marriott Ko Olina oceanview week to provide occupancy to begin in 2020 with a reservation for me in 2019 (and my agreement to pay the 2019 MFs) and they still exercised ROFR. I had hoped where they did not have usage in 2019, they would pass on the purchase but they did not.

Was this a second one, or the same one you already reported?

 

[taterhed]

Nice try....

 

[amy241]

Was this a second one, or the same one you already reported?

It was the same unit involving two different contracts. The first contract was for 2019 occupancy, with a reservation already booked for me by the owner for June 2019. They said they were exercising ROFR and called the broker and asked her to cancel it which she refused. So we executed a second contract for sale, this time specifying 2020 occupancy but subject to my existing 2019 reservation already set up for me by the seller. I got word today that they were exercising ROFR on the unit. I have asked the broker what happens to my reservation for 2019 and she has put a call in to MVC.

I always thought they stood in the buyer’s shoes when exercising ROFR and could not change terms, etc.I would think they would have to purchase subject to an existing reservation. I mean for all they know, the buyer could have leased that 2019 week already and collected payment. This just does not seem right to me. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

[amy241]

Nice try....

Back to the drawing board. I elaborated on what happened in the next post below yours.

 

[taterhed]

Uhm.

Depends on how the contract is written. They are accepting or refusing the contract, not cherry picking the unit whenever they like.
Of course, if the contract language is unenforceable....then it's a different kettle of fish.

If the contract isn't 'hinky,' I think the seller is entitled to the full payment, 2020 first use, and may exercise control of the 2019 use if it's paid for.
Of course, if the contract is exercised prior to payment of MF's etc.... then things could change.
Marriott will send a contract that specifies the terms of the ROFR. The seller is NOT required to sign the contract AFAIK.....if it doesn't match the terms of the original agreement substantially. Of course, time is of the essence, equivalent payment (no Mf's no 2019 use) could be valid under the ROFR terms. Who knows? I didn't read the ROFR page very well....I'll go look.

You know, I think the seller can decline sale and resubmit later (maybe Dec?), but at some point.....they will force the issue.

I'm not a lawyer and I have no idea what I'm talking about.....but you get the gist.

 

[amy241]

Uhm.

Depends on how the contract is written. They are accepting or refusing the contract, not cherry picking the unit whenever they like.
Of course, if the contract language is unenforceable....then it's a different kettle of fish.

If the contract isn't 'hinky,' I think the seller is entitled to the full payment, 2020 first use, and may exercise control of the 2019 use if it's paid for.
Of course, if the contract is exercised prior to payment of MF's etc.... then things could change.
Marriott will send a contract that specifies the terms of the ROFR. The seller is NOT required to sign the contract AFAIK.....if it doesn't match the terms of the original agreement substantially. Of course, time is of the essence, equivalent payment (no Mf's no 2019 use) could be valid under the ROFR terms. Who knows? I didn't read the ROFR page very well....I'll go look.

You know, I think the seller can decline sale and resubmit later (maybe Dec?), but at some point.....they will force the issue.

I'm not a lawyer and I have no idea what I'm talking about.....but you get the gist.

Thanks, Rob, I never saw what the broker submitted to Marriott so I have no idea how it was worded. I don’t think the seller would decline the sale as she is elderly and wants to be rid of it. So assuming Marriott agrees to meet the same terms, I’m sure she will proceed.

Geez, it’s getting really difficult to get one through at a good price. I’m wondering what the magic number is — what is the lowest price that will make it through ROFR. It looks like one failed in July for $10K. Another made it through for 7K in March though. I can’t seem to make any sense of their actions on discrepant prices.

 

[TXTortoise]

From another thread, you might calculate the value per DP that Marriot is buying at, though your March vs July example shows the inconsistency.

While no consistent curve for that, it would seem to be the best metric going forward. Mostly we need more data points as it seems they have more ROFR dollars and are executing to that, than what ROFR.net has historically shown.

 

[amy241]

From another thread, you might calculate the value per DP that Marriot is buying at, though your March vs July example shows the inconsistency.

While no consistent curve for that, it would seem to be the best metric going forward. Mostly we need more data points as it seems they have more ROFR dollars and are executing to that, than what ROFR.net has historically shown.

How do you know the points value for an MKO oceanview week?

 

[amy241]

I recently looked at the last 12 months or so of entries on ROFR.net for both phases of Maui Ocean Club and Waiohai and calculated the cost per point of the ROFR decision. It does seem many ROFR exercises occur at prices below $2/point, but there are some outliers, plus many that pass under $2/point. See attached image. Failures are noted in red

View attachment 7768

Jim, where did you get the points values for these weeks? I’m looking for the points value for a Marriott Ko Olina oceanview week.