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Rescinding should not be automatic response

Discussion in 'Marriott Vacation Club' started by csalter2, Aug 2, 2019.

  1. Princ3ssgldy

    Princ3ssgldy Guest

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    There are two different points being made here. I can't ever see a situation where it makes sense to purchase directly from a developer. However, even if such a situation does exists, if someone is asking whether or not to rescind, then it means that they are not certain that they got a better deal than through resale. Therefore, just the fact that the question is being asked is enough of a reason to urge rescinding. And as has been stated here, in the event that after serious consideration and research, the purchaser decides that they still want to buy direct, that option will always be there.
     
    Karen G and dagger1 like this.
  2. Steve Fatula

    Steve Fatula TUG Member

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    This is exactly the source of the issue. Many people here share that view, and refuse to believe anything else NO MATTER WHAT, thus they pontificate. 3 of our ownerships were direct purchases, and would *gladly* and willingly do so again, even in hindsight. Several others have shared in this thread the same thing. But we have a large group of people who want to mock and shame such folks with their overly simplistic views of timeshare and value. In a normal circumstance as you posted where the question is asked, we agree. But when anyone says they purchased direct (and never ask or question about rescinding), the hassling never seems to stop. All I can say to such folks is get over it. Perhaps it's not right for you, but don't even begin to think what you think applies to me or anyone else. It may of course. But no one size fits all.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
    VacationForever, SueDonJ and swditz like this.
  3. OldGuy

    OldGuy Guest

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    ouch
     
  4. Steve Fatula

    Steve Fatula TUG Member

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    Trying to be as direct as Davidvel was. :)

    I hate to see people driven away by such close minded people. Tug should be open to all timeshare owners or potential owners.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
  5. JIMinNC

    JIMinNC TUG Member

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    In most timeshare systems, and for traditional weeks, you are probably 100% correct that there are few, if any, situations where buying from a developer makes sense. But if you read through this entire thread, you will see several examples described within the Marriott system where people who are seeking access to the MVC points system can structure creative deals with Marriott and arrive at costs per point that are very similar to, and in some rare cases actually less than buying resale Marriott points. This is primarily because Marriott charges a $3/point activation fee on pure resale points purchases which can reduce or eliminate the price advantage of resale points and because Marriott does not allow resale weeks to play in the points system without a sizable purchase of points from Marriott. These are the kinds of situations we are familiar with here as Marriott owners where buying from Marriott can make sense if you want points instead of weeks.
     
    SueDonJ and Steve Fatula like this.
  6. DavidnRobin

    DavidnRobin TUG Member

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    I think it is referred to as cognitive dissonance.

    Of course the first response should be ‘Rescind’ as it is correct course of action in >99.9% of the time. That is just a good decision making principle in the background of unknown or imperfect information.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  7. CalGalTraveler

    CalGalTraveler TUG Member

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    There are some cases where it makes sense, but those are for the TS pros who have researched it intensely and negotiated a hard deal. It also works for people who have more money than time and want a simple scam-safe transaction. It is not for the average poster who has no idea what they bought and a limited budget.

    I saw a stat that approx. 50% of Tuggers had purchased developer at some point in their TS journey. I bet if you run a poll and ask how many of those buyers would buy that unit from the developer again I suspect it would be a small fraction.
     
  8. geist1223

    geist1223 Guest

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    We have bought from the Developer and also resell in both the Worldmark System and DRI. Both of these systems have advantages to Developer purchases. The advantage to resell is cost. In the Worldmark System if you buy resell you are limited to the about 90 Worldmark Resorts. You can not use Club Pass (direct Booking access to Wyndham Resorts) or direct Booking access to Worldmark South Pacific (which has added Bavaria, Tuscany, and Japan). When you buy resell DRI you can only use these Points to Book in the Collection to which your Points belong and then only to DRI owned/managed Resorts. But not to any of the affiliates listed in the Directory. As an example in the DRI Directory for Hawaii there are 20 - 30 Resorts but actually there are only 5 or 6 DRI Managed/owned Resorts in the Hawaiiian Collection and only 3 of them are in Hawaii. If you buy from DRI you have a 13 month Booking Window for your Home Collection (including affiliates) and a 10 Booking Window for all other Collections.

    So if your only consideration is cost then yes always rescind and never buy from the Developer. But do your research. You might find that what you want/value can only come from a Developer Purchase.
     
    Steve Fatula and JIMinNC like this.
  9. OldGuy

    OldGuy Guest

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    There are a lot of differences in ownership and interests on this forum.

    Some, like us, after 30 years of dealing with where to buy, trading power, how to get the best exchanges, etc., are interested in owning for year-round amenities rights and discounted excess inventory for our Five Year Guest Pass holders.

    Some are interested in premium, luxury, high-dollar corporate programs.

    Some are only interested in getting rid of what they own.

    So, when self-interests come into play there's a little bit of friction.

    It's not as simple as it use-to-be.

    :cool:
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2019
  10. davidvel

    davidvel TUG Member

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    There will always be people who have a different opinion about a particular transaction, and the purpose of TUG is to be forum for those opinions, including pontification. I haven't seen people supporting anyone getting mocked, shamed, or hassled, all of which violate the rules. If it occurs, it should be reported to moderators.

    I still think in 99% of cases the best first response to these threads is to ask if they are in rescission period, and tell them to rescind if there is any question in their mind, giving them all the reasons set forth above. Debating the actual purchase itself can come later.

    And if anyone wants to start a thread without having people telling them to rescind, they can say so, or say the period lapsed, in their first post. If people ignore that, it's up to the mods to decide if it's over the line.
     
  11. pianodinosaur

    pianodinosaur TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    Developers like Marriott, HIlton, Hyatt, and Starwood do not build new resorts unless they think they can sell them directly to the public. I purchased direct from Hilton prior to learning about TUG. I purchased resale from Marriott after learning about TUG. My wife and I love time sharing. I think a key issue to ask is, “Where do you want to go and when do you want to go?” We have used timesharing to travel all over the world. We have learned that points are points and weeks are weeks regardless if purchased direct or resale. Exchanging can sometimes be tricky and you can’t always get what you want when you want it. Flexibility is important.

    During the course of our travels, we have met people who have found their paradise on earth and have gone to the same resort annually for the past twenty years. They seemed very happy with their direct purchase.
     
  12. HitchHiker71

    HitchHiker71 TUG Member

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    I will first say I haven’t read through this entire thread, but I have a standard approach that I use whenever dealing with a new poster who comes to TUG, or any of the FB Wyndham timeshare groups where I’m an admin/moderator, that at least in theory should apply fairly well to any timeshare purchase. That said, this approach is geared primarily toward Wyndham owners. Feedback is appreciated as to whether you good folks in the Marriott forum feel this approach is valid:

    Exercise what I term the five R’s:

    Rescind - unless you have in fact done step two below in spades, rescind your developer purchase first. You have only a precious few days to rescind. You have the rest to your natural life to decide to buy back in with the developer and probably at a better price point than the contract you are rescinding now.

    Research - do your homework in spades. Research research research. Talk to existing owners, find timeshare sites like TUG and search and read existing content. Chances are someone, many someone’s in fact, have been right where you are now and have taken the time to post about their experiences. Learn from those someone’s, and follow the next step to learn better whether timesharing is a good match for you and your vacationing needs and wants.

    Rent - preferably from VIP owners who can sometimes offer better rental pricing since they have VIP booking benefits that are only available to VIP owners. Try before you buy is the idea here. Try out the resorts to ensure you and yours actually like the vacation experiences that timesharing offers.

    Resale purchase - if after performing the above three steps - you have done your homework and tried out the timeshare experience, you can now consider a resale purchase. Buying resale generally offers the best bang for your buck and the fastest ROI/breakeven from a dollars and sense perspective. There are a small handful of scenarios where considering a developer purchase may actually make sense. Which brings us to the last of the R’s.

    Retail purchase - if you have done your homework and determined that you are in fact part of the handful of scenarios where a retail purchase makes sense, then by all means take this step. By now you should essentially be a timeshare expert or close to it, so you know better than anyone else what you should do. One primary recommended rule to live by if you are considering this step. Timeshares are a luxury purchase - a want not a need. Luxury purchases should never be financed. If you cannot afford to make the purchase in cash up front - don’t do it. Not following this single rule is one of the primary reasons many people end up hating timeshares. Between the loan payments and the maintenance fees, they can’t afford to actually go on vacation. Now they are paying for something that they cannot actually use - and nothing breeds contempt in the financial department faster than a bad investment of our hard earned money.

    Lastly, read this article on timesharing to make sure you are a good match for timeshare vacations. I found it very helpful for me during my research phase to help frame whether timesharing was or was not a good match for myself and my family:

    https://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2018/06/a-physician-on-timeshares-who-are-they-right-for.html
     
    m61376, Renoom, Karen G and 3 others like this.
  13. Arusso

    Arusso TUG Member

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    Completely agree.
     
  14. dandjane1

    dandjane1 TUG Member

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    We bought a combination of developer and resale points for our journey to triple Platinum at Wyndham, This was necessary in order to be able to use the 13-month advanced reservation priority, which we need for Event Weeks.
    These E.W.s are gone in 10 minutes or less from the opening of the "window", so Platinum level is a must, not only for the 13 months, but for rental reservation points to cover 85 - 100% of the maintenance fees for the year, with points left over we can use for ourselves.
    So, yes, it (the combination, with resale converted to developer points at purchases) works for us.
    Alas - now we're tagged as the hated and despised "Mega-Renters".
    heh heh..........
     
  15. bnoble

    bnoble TUG Member

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    I hate to break it to you, but you don't need to buy from the developer to use ARP (13 month) reservations. You just need to own at the right places, and that can be done via resale.
     
  16. DavidBr

    DavidBr TUG Member

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    I have purchased Marriott timeshares both resale and from the developer. My developer transactions were when I felt that a hybrid purchase of a fixed week and Destination Points, gave me a cost per point at or below what I could have achieved in the resale market on an all-in basis (including purchase incentives and credit card points not available in a resale). Furthermore, these hybrid packages had the advantage that I was not only trying to minimize my price per point, but I wanted a fixed week that I might frequently use. Because the week was enrolled, I had optionality that would not have been available had I simply bought the week at resale. Also, the resale week would not have added to my benefit level, while the enrolled week allows me to get to the Presidential level, which allows for discounted near term reservations and Titanium status for my spouse in Marriott Bonvoy. Before actually buying from the developer, we went to a half dozen presentations before we found the exact hybrid package we wanted. So, in our specific case, we don't agree that there is no downside to rescinding. Some of the packages we considered were not generic. There were occasionally fixed holiday weeks or room configurations that weren't always available. The specific package we wanted was simply not always available. I only give this example to illustrate that for the newcomer who stumbles on to TUG with the post "I don't understand what I bought and I want to know whether I made a big mistake?" the best advice is to rescind, research and possibly buy a resale. However, for someone who has a strong understanding of what they own and what the array of alternatives are, a developer purchase can be a well-considered, favorable transaction. Hopefully, TUG continues to be more than simplistic advice for the beginner and is also a strong resource for those with different objectives (including those who rent their timeshares, those who use multiple weeks as a second home, those who want to maximize points reservations, etc.). The combination of "Junk Fees", ROFR, hybrid packages, occasional enrollment of post 2010 resales in exchange for points purchases, benefit levels, resorts not available in II, etc. all make the analysis of this more complex. It's no longer the just the simple case of "the $40,000 developer week is currently available at resale for $12,000.
     
  17. LannyPC

    LannyPC TUG Member

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    One thing I notice though is that when in a thread, someone gives advice to rescind, he backs it up by pointing out a similar purchase that can be had for pennies on the dollar. Sometimes it's a link to an E-Bay listing or even a Red Week or Tug listing. So in such cases "Rescind!" would be sage, well thought out advice.
     
    HitchHiker71 and CalGalTraveler like this.
  18. Dean

    Dean TUG Member

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    IF it's exactly the same option and is applicable to the thread then absolutely the poster should be informed of the option and the recommendations. Even if it's not for them, maybe past the cutoff date, then it's still applicable for others who might be in a similar situation. There are times when a developer purchase makes sense but I can think of very few times when it'd be a good choice for someone new to timesharing, at least not until they were VERY well educated on the subject.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
    CalGalTraveler likes this.
  19. davidvel

    davidvel TUG Member

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    You nailed it, IMO with the above nugget pulled from your post.

    And I doubt that anyone who "has a strong understanding of what they own and what the array of alternatives are," is going to suddenly turn around and blindly rescind their purchase just because of a few RESCIND! posts here.
     
    CalGalTraveler likes this.
  20. Renoom

    Renoom Guest

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    so i need your help. this post, along with another one from Feb 2017, has brought me to ask it here - i fall into the area between the "hey, i went to a presentation on a marketing trip and bought without knowing anything" and the "knowledgeable after doing some research" range. my wife and i have attended numerous presentations over the years, declined all of them, but finally decided to buy, and signed, last friday, for 4k points of MVC. we financed it to get discounts and the additional points offered (4k match for 8k now and 4k more at 18 months) and will pay it off after month 18 when we get our final point bonus tranche.

    but in reading on this site almost exclusively since Friday pm i've learned more than i thought there was to know! we don't want to cancel our purchase - we like the idea of the MVC, the flexibility available to us, the destinations, etc, all the reasons why people buy points. but in looking at what i've learned i want/need to know more about the hybrid option and determine if it's worth rescinding and asking for something more like that. i am open to cancelling but want to keep b/c my wife and i aren't too comfortable dealing in the aftermarket resale world of p2p purchases. i like scheduling direct with MVC and leveraging the flexibility that i'd get from that thru banking points while finalizing our vacationing strategy for the upcoming year.

    when i will talk to our rep about this hybrid option what are the things i need to know about and ask for? my understanding of the hybrid option is that i'd be buying a set and fixed week at a specific location that i'd be able to convert to points if i did't want to use it (and use those points elsewhere or bank them for later use), trade it for another destination, or use it as scheduled.

    can i get some guidance on what to ask for/discuss with my sales rep? @JIMinNC - you've posted heavily and in @GoldenVIKE 's post about his purchase being a good idea (from 2/17) you laid out what i want to accomplish with my points and, to butter you up, have become an informal mentor to me without even knowing it...:)

    looking forward to everyone's input - thanks!
     
  21. Dean

    Dean TUG Member

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    There are at least 2 questions. Does MVC points make sense for you and what do you gain/give up buying resale vs retail. You give up nothing and you gain savings by going resale. The bonuses for buying are peanuts currently in your situation. They're nice if you were going to buy retail anyway but they don't make it a good deal. I'd cancel and do more research including on the hybrid options which may not be available right now but likely will in a few months.
     
  22. csalter2

    csalter2 TUG Member

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    There is not an easy answer to your question, but I will address many of them since I did start this thread and others will certainly chime in.

    First, you have to know what your traveling needs are and since you have been reading I am sure you have addressed this question. Most will tell you to rescind because you may not be able to answer that question and they want to ensure your knowledge of what you're purchasing.

    We do not know how much you paid for your points to give you a comparison of what a good deal is or not for your situation. However, I am thinking you may have paid around $55,000 for the 4000 points. I will share with you that you will pay more in interest to get the additional points for keeping the loan. I would pay cash for those same points via transfer and you will save a boatload of money because the interest rate is high and those additional points are not worth it. Transferring points into your account takes all of ten minutes. You can do this through vacationpointexchange.com . Save money there.

    The hybrid deals are good value for your money. You can pay between $6- $9 per point with a hybrid deal. The weeks that are used in the hybrid deals are usually weeks that cannot be placed in the trust. These properties are usually outside of the country like Aruba, St. Kitts and Europe. The hybrid deals usually involve one of those weeks and a number of points. In my specific case, I received two weeks. One week from Aruba and another one at Ocean Pointe. To give you an idea of the savings I received, I my weeks elect to 9450 points for less than what you paid and my maintenance fees are about .40 per point compared to trust Destination points that you have at .58 per point.

    You have to ask your salesman for a hybrid deal. You now know of both types. The kind that JIMNC and Viker are talking about have to do with buying Marriott Residence resale and then buying 5000 trust points to bring all of the weeks which elect to thousands of points into the Destinations Club. However, you will more than likely be paying double of what you paid for the 4000 points you have. People that do this usually vacation a lot and then rent points to subsidize their purchase.

    Please feel free to explore and question some more. You could rescind and do another deal if you want. The same offer that you currently have will not go anywhere.
     
    vacationtime1 likes this.
  23. echino

    echino TUG Member

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    What's the value of owning Marriott points if you can consistently rent them from points owners for about $0.60 - $0.65 per point, which is close to the maintenance fees? Why buy when you can rent?
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019
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  24. vacationtime1

    vacationtime1 Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    I frequently wonder the same. It is the upfront cost of DC points that makes the DC so expensive to use. And the upfront cost is often completely avoidable.

    Of course you need to be a DC member to rent points, but that requires only a minimum purchase or the enrollment of a pre-2010 week. And there are benefits to having 4000/7000 points for making reservations (Select or Executive members). But once those milestones are met, there is very little advantage to purchasing additional points -- as long as renting points is permitted.
     
  25. bazzap

    bazzap Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    It may be difficult to justify the value from a purely financial perspective.
    Just a few thoughts though.
    To actually rent points, you either need to already own Points or have enrolled week(s).
    If you don’t, you can still rent but the Owner needs to make the booking which you then rent.
    Even if you do, you may have more flexibility owning rather than renting the Points by being able to make bookings earlier to improve your chances of getting availability especially for high demand resorts/weeks?
     

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